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GMC survived because is it's owns weird thing. You have standalone GMC dealers that only do Light/Medium/Heavy duty commercial trucks as their main business. Some even were GMC/Isuzu shops. (dealership I worked for was one of these) They will happily stock and sell consumer models but that is not their primary role. At the consumer dealerships they have Buick now to cover all the bases since Pontiac went tits up. Every vehicle GMC sells is pure profit since all they do is tweak sheetmetal and options lists. GMC also tends to sell to a more affluent set than Chevrolet. That Denali bling factor is very real. It allows a GMC/Buick dealer to hit every segment from the Verano on up to a Yukon Denali XL (over $80,000 for a loaded one!) The only overlap now is the Encore/Acadia but they are targeted at different groups. (Acadia is more truck like in styling while the Buick is softer) Yes every model is a rebadged Chevy in some way, but the way GM differentiate the two is the (better imo) styling and more standard equipment.
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Apr 4, 2014 17:35
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The rationale for GMC was that GM dealers use to be split between Buick/Olds/Pontiac and Chevy/Cadillac, or some such, and the dealers that didn't have Chevy (usually it was a Buick/Pontiac) would also have a truck and a full size SUV to sell. Nowadays I don't think there are many stand alone Buick/GMC or Buick/Caddy dealers but it probably still makes sense to some extent. The decision to split Ram off from Dodge is actually working out in at least one respect - the other Dodge vehicles no longer have to share a design theme with the trucks. You can see this with the Dart. GMC is the same. The design language is especially suited to the truck and large SUV and it works. I happen to think the Sierra is a much better looking truck, probably the best out of all the full size trucks. It would make more sense to discontinue the Silverado and put all the trucks and BOF SUVs under GMC. The Silverado nameplate is relatively new anyway and GMC has had trucks for longer historically. The crazies on the GM forums also want GMC to have some of its own off-road specialized vehicles to go head to head with Jeep and fill the space Hummer left, so a revamped GMC can compete with everyone from Jeep at the lower end to Land Rover/Lexus trucks at the top end. But that would require someone willing to take a chance. 
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Apr 4, 2014 17:43
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People become brand loyal when it comes to their vehicles. My sister loves VW's and won't drive anything else. My brother.. Jeep. I prefer Ford vehicles. I've owned other brands but I like Ford's current offerings right now. A cousin won't buy anything but Toyota, his entire immediate family is like that. My step-dad only drives Chevy trucks for work. If GMC is profitable and still selling trucks, keep them around. I will say when I think GMC, I think of a more rugged work style vehicle than when I do Chevy, even though they're the same drat vehicle. Man the marketing guys are good. PeterWeller posted:the truck sales wars are fought with cash on the hood. Trucks launch with big incentive packages. The only person who pays MSRP for any truck is Hank Hill. So true. Here in San Antonio you start negotiating on a full size pickup at 10K off MSRP. I've seen Ford F-150's go for up to 14K off when they really really want to move the drat things. Ford still makes a killing on those trucks even with those kind of discounts. When Toyota build the Tundra plant here, they learned real quick they would have to start incentive's if they wanted to carve out a market. I see lots of Tundra's around, the whole built in Texas thing resonates pretty well here but the dealers have to put big discounts on them as well to compete. San Marcos Toyota is taking 12,000 off MSRP of any in stock Tundra CrewMax right now.
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Apr 4, 2014 17:43
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I once read someone suggesting that instead of killing the Crown Victoria, Ranger, old E series vans, and other unglamorous fleet cars to protect their brand image, Ford should just stick them all under the now unused Mercury nameplate and sell them direct only. Because Mercury was the god of commerce and trade. I thought it was pretty interesting in terms of weird suggestions.
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Apr 4, 2014 17:50
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Throatwarbler posted:The decision to split Ram off from Dodge is actually working out in at least one respect - the other Dodge vehicles no longer have to share a design theme with the trucks. You can see this with the Dart. GMC is the same. The design language is especially suited to the truck and large SUV and it works. I happen to think the Sierra is a much better looking truck, probably the best out of all the full size trucks. That's a good point. I think it was less of a handicap with Dodge as their modern styling language was pretty macho to begin with; the trucks would've clashed much harder with Chrysler (see: Aspen, Pacifica.) Chevrolet's had an issue with coherent design language for ages, partly due to struggling to link budget cars, trucks, Camaro / Corvette etc all together without having the cheap commuter stuff pull everything down. The GMC styling is a bit more butch and I think it works better overall.
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Apr 4, 2014 18:57
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Cream_Filling posted:What? Whitaker was at GM for two years total. Like Akerson, he was just some random-rear end hire from the telecom sector, with the difference being that he wasn't as hideously egotistical. Oops, I got him crossed with Wagoner.
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Apr 4, 2014 19:36
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Cream_Filling posted:I once read someone suggesting that instead of killing the Crown Victoria, Ranger, old E series vans, and other unglamorous fleet cars to protect their brand image, Ford should just stick them all under the now unused Mercury nameplate and sell them direct only. Because Mercury was the god of commerce and trade. I thought it was pretty interesting in terms of weird suggestions. Honestly wouldn't have been the worst idea, but the CV and Ranger both only died because making further just-enough revisions to make them hit fuel economy / safety requirements going forward would've cost too much. Otherwise you'd still be seeing them showing up on the back half of dealer lots.
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Apr 4, 2014 19:40
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BabyMauler posted:Without Bob Lutz I doubt Cadillac would be where they are now. Akersons biggest sin in my eyes is that he was a financial guy who had no business running one of the largest automotive firms in the world. Look at what he did with the 2013 Malibu, it launched with a fart. When the outgoing model is better than the incoming one something is awfully wrong. They did something really odd with the 2013 Malibu and it wasn't just the drivetrain. GM always had 2 versions of the Epsilon platform, one LWB (112")for the Lacrosse/Old Malibu/Cadillac XTS, and one SWB(107") for European cars like the Regal. The Regal was always a sort of odd duck in the US lineup because it was smaller than the average US midsize sedan while being more expensive, like a GM version of the Acura TSX. Like the TSX the Regal never sold very well but with the higher margins commanded by the Buick nameplate it sort of worked out OK. In 2013 the Malibu switched from the LWB Lacrosse platform to the SWB Regal platform and lost 5" of wheelbase. So now it has a shorter wheelbase than the old Chrysler 200 and is barely larger than the Cruze. Hell I think the Cruze has a larger trunk and is larger in most dimensions. All the magazines panned it because the back seats no longer fit adults. http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1212_2012_2013_midsize_sedan_comparison/ I guess I can kind of see where they were going. Shrinking the Malibu made it a bit more palatable in European markets, and *maybe* in China? I doubt the latter since it is well know that the Chinese prefer LWB sedans, but maybe they want to steer those Chinese consumers towards Buick or something. Meanwhile Americans who want a longer sedan can buy an Impala. Oh except they've just closed down the entire Chevy brand in Europe to concentrate only on Opel. It's not clear from the sales but it sure seems to me that GM has gone from being fairly competitive in the midsize sedan segment, the second largest in the US after trucks, to bottom of the barrel, without their competitors lifting a finger. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 20:00
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Cream_Filling posted:While true, I feel this is no excuse for how insanely bad Akerson was. The only body more incompetent than Akerson is the GM Board of Directors itself, which is a clown show and has been for decades. Can someone please make a thread about automotive corporate incompetence? I'd love to read about all the Big Mistakes (and not just the Cadillac Cimarron, either).
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Apr 4, 2014 20:26
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Thwomp posted:Ford and Chrysler usually lump in their 450/4500 and 550/5500 (and for Ford, the 650 and 750 too) numbers in with the rest, so yes, Chrysler and Ford are always goosing their half-ton numbers and GM doesn't have equivalents to match. The f-650/750 aren't included in the numbers, and only sell about 8000 units a year. The F-450/550 are, but only sell about 30,000 units a year. The F-150 is the best selling half ton, their 3/4 ton is nearly 50% of the market, and their 1 ton is well over 50% of the market. In the half ton's if you combine chevrolet and GMC, GM is leading there, but that is the only area they are. Overall ford f-150/250/350 outsells all GMC trucks combined. 
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Apr 4, 2014 20:46
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Throatwarbler posted:They did something really odd with the 2013 Malibu and it wasn't just the drivetrain. GM always had 2 versions of the Epsilon platform, one LWB (112")for the Lacrosse/Old Malibu/Cadillac XTS, and one SWB(107") for European cars like the Regal. The Regal was always a sort of odd duck in the US lineup because it was smaller than the average US midsize sedan while being more expensive, like a GM version of the Acura TSX. Like the TSX the Regal never sold very well but with the higher margins commanded by the Buick nameplate it sort of worked out OK. In 2013 the Malibu switched from the LWB Lacrosse platform to the SWB Regal platform and lost 5" of wheelbase. So now it has a shorter wheelbase than the old Chrysler 200 and is barely larger than the Cruze. Hell I think the Cruze has a larger trunk and is larger in most dimensions. All the magazines panned it because the back seats no longer fit adults. gently caress beat  Even as a kid I thought the Regal was the "sporty" Buick, so the new version being a bit small in the back was a acceptable concession. Whats funny is that they just killed Chevy in euroland so they wont ever get the Malibu, just the Opel Insignia (Regal). They messed up the Malibu for it's home market to appease the world market, and sales went in the shitter in the US. It was a loving dumb move. Now that the Impala is on LWB Epsilon the Malibu being a bit smaller makes some sense, but it is still the same problem as Lacrosse/Regal. The Malibu isn't the "Sporty" sedan, it's the mid price family car with a back seat that does not fit American adults very well. The Regal at least gets go fast trims that stand out a bit. So why even bother with the Malibu over the Impala, or hell even what is on offer from Ford/Chrysler/Toyhonnissan/Hyundai and Kia? (The new Chrysler 200 looks great, Pentistar V6 woof) It is a Popsicle headache of a car.
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Apr 4, 2014 21:01
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atomicthumbs posted:Can someone please make a thread about automotive corporate incompetence? I'd love to read about all the Big Mistakes (and not just the Cadillac Cimarron, either). I would love this.
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Apr 4, 2014 21:20
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The saddest thing about the new Malibu is that the last one was also the first FWD one that was actually worth looking at in any sense of the term. It was a well styled car and actually a decent competitor in the segment. In many ways, the new Impala is what the new Malibu should have been.
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Apr 4, 2014 21:35
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KakerMix posted:I would love this. The thing is, you can't really look at any specific decision and say "This was a bad decision because of X and Y decision should have been made." With GM, the corporate culture prevents effective decision making for a wide variety of reasons, so you're look at less like "oh my god schadenfreude!!! how are they so dumb???" and more at culturally ingrained decision making processes, which honestly aren't that interesting.
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Apr 4, 2014 22:22
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Not sure if this is the place to for it, but what does this mean exactly?quote:General Motors Co. (GM) will have to tell owners of 2.59 million recalled small cars to “park it” if customers suing the automaker convince a judge faulty ignition switches linked to 13 deaths make them too dangerous to drive. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-03/gm-park-it-order-sought-until-recalled-cars-are-fixed.html
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Apr 4, 2014 23:42
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The thing is, you can't really look at any specific decision and say "This was a bad decision because of X and Y decision should have been made." With GM, the corporate culture prevents effective decision making for a wide variety of reasons, so you're look at less like "oh my god schadenfreude!!! how are they so dumb???" and more at culturally ingrained decision making processes, which honestly aren't that interesting. The Mitsubishi 0-0-0 financing seems a good example. You could go back to the '62 Chryslers if you want to get historical.
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Apr 4, 2014 23:47
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overtone posted:Not sure if this is the place to for it, but what does this mean exactly? It reads to me like it means "hello, someone did a retarded thing while driving, therefor we're now suing GM".
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Apr 5, 2014 00:38
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Nidhg00670000 posted:It reads to me like it means "hello, someone did a retarded thing while driving, therefor we're now suing GM". It's my god given right to drive drunk with 10lbs of poo poo hanging off my keychain. When something goes wrong it's clearly someone else's fault.
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Apr 5, 2014 00:54
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fknlo posted:It's my god given right to drive drunk with 10lbs of poo poo hanging off my keychain. When something goes wrong it's clearly someone else's fault. Will it mean I can't drive my 2007 Cobalt? I've been using a plain key since the recall.
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Apr 5, 2014 01:28
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overtone posted:Will it mean I can't drive my 2007 Cobalt? I've been using a plain key since the recall. I don't really see what law would allow a judge to blanket ban certain makes or models of car from the road nationwide, and I definitely don't see what legal authority would be involved with a judge telling GM to tell you you can't drive. It's not like they're going to light the batsignal and the cars just won't start. I'd be curious about what the possible legal order entails if it hasn't been telephone-gamed through the media.
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Apr 5, 2014 02:22
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Snowdens Secret posted:It's not like they're going to light the batsignal and the cars just won't start. I want to live in a world where this is a fact of life. Although, I guess onstar kind of qualifies.
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Apr 5, 2014 02:50
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overtone posted:Will it mean I can't drive my 2007 Cobalt? I've been using a plain key since the recall. Of course not. However, I'd imagine that if the judge rules the vehicles "unsafe", GM will have to provide transport to anyone that so chooses when the time comes to fix them.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:42
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I had a sonic rental a few years ago. It was nice but I hit the keyfob accidentally with my knee once and the car shut off, including the lights on a pitch black road. Is that what this recall is about?
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Apr 5, 2014 10:20
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CharlesM posted:I had a sonic rental a few years ago. It was nice but I hit the keyfob accidentally with my knee once and the car shut off, including the lights on a pitch black road. Is that what this recall is about? Reminds me of the coasting races I had with my friends in high school. We'd go cruising at night and match speeds at 30-35, then cut the ignitions at the same time. Whoever goes furthest wins.
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Apr 5, 2014 14:59
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Snowdens Secret posted:I don't really see what law would allow a judge to blanket ban certain makes or models of car from the road nationwide, and I definitely don't see what legal authority would be involved with a judge telling GM to tell you you can't drive. It's not like they're going to light the batsignal and the cars just won't start. I'd be curious about what the possible legal order entails if it hasn't been telephone-gamed through the media. Possibly a shift of liability? "We told you not to drive your death machine, but you did it anyway, have fun trying to sue us!"
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Apr 5, 2014 15:02
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CharlesM posted:I had a sonic rental a few years ago. It was nice but I hit the keyfob accidentally with my knee once and the car shut off, including the lights on a pitch black road. Is that what this recall is about? I have an 09 Cobalt and mine died while driving twice, both times hitting pretty good potholes in pitch black driving conditions. Didn't think much of it since I was able to jiggle the key around and get it started again.
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Apr 6, 2014 00:27
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CharlesM posted:I had a sonic rental a few years ago. It was nice but I hit the keyfob accidentally with my knee once and the car shut off, including the lights on a pitch black road. Is that what this recall is about? No, i've had lots of cars do this. What the recall is about is that the slot on the key is oblong, off is dead vertical, and on/running is tilted forward. if you have a heavy keychain, the weight of the keychain at the end of the oblong hole forces the key into the vertical, or off, position. Snowdens Secret posted:I don't really see what law would allow a judge to blanket ban certain makes or models of car from the road nationwide, and I definitely don't see what legal authority would be involved with a judge telling GM to tell you you can't drive. It's not like they're going to light the batsignal and the cars just won't start. I'd be curious about what the possible legal order entails if it hasn't been telephone-gamed through the media. I believe the point of the lawsuit is to force GM to provide an alternative until it's fixed. Right now they only provide rentals for cars still in warranty. It would basically force GM to provide as many as 775k rental cars until the cars are fixed. On the plus side, that would sell a ton of impalas to rental fleets.
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Apr 6, 2014 00:33
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VikingSkull posted:A catch all work vehicle thread might be cool, because really huge dump trucks and cranes and poo poo own. Do vans (specifically band vans) count? Because I loving love thinking & talking about different ways to haul six people + gear around the country in the most comfort and highest fuel economy possible.
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Apr 6, 2014 00:34
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In the beginning of 2003 or so, there was some motor journalist in Sweden who argued that the key placement in second gen SAAB 9-3s was unsafe because the passenger could accidentally turn the car off while trying to hold on to something during "spirited" driving (since the key is easier to reach than if it was by the steering wheel, I seem to recall the reasoning went). Naturally, nothing came of this since most people understood that this was unlikely as hell.
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Apr 6, 2014 00:40
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DEUCE SLUICE posted:Do vans (specifically band vans) count? Because I loving love thinking & talking about different ways to haul six people + gear around the country in the most comfort and highest fuel economy possible. Well if I ever get around to writing the OP for such a thread (although if somebody else beats me to it I won't get mad, probably do a better job than I would) vans will certainly be included. Hell, most of my jobs fleet is old E-350s.
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Apr 6, 2014 01:52
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Nidhg00670000 posted:In the beginning of 2003 or so, there was some motor journalist in Sweden who argued that the key placement in second gen SAAB 9-3s was unsafe because the passenger could accidentally turn the car off while trying to hold on to something during "spirited" driving (since the key is easier to reach than if it was by the steering wheel, I seem to recall the reasoning went). Yeah that would be an awkward grab if they were trying to brace themselves.
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Apr 6, 2014 03:39
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Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.
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Aeka 2.0 posted:Yeah that would be an awkward grab if they were trying to brace themselves. The A3 actually has oh-poo poo handles by the shifter.  They're not very useful. I would think the passenger would be more likely to grab the shifter and somehow knock the car out of gear than grab a SAAB's key, and I don't think anyone is arguing for mandating the awful dash-mount shifter or going back to a stalk on the steering column.
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Apr 6, 2014 03:53
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If you're spastic enough to grab the loving shifter I don't know what to say.
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Apr 6, 2014 05:14
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Xguard86 posted:If you're spastic enough to grab the loving shifter I don't know what to say. This is compounded in  for me, since the left side "grabber" on a 9-3SS is actually the eBrake.
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Apr 6, 2014 18:09
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Well I mean the driver's side typically has a handy circular handle to brace yourself with so...
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Apr 6, 2014 19:47
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Reviews for the 2015 Honda Fit are trickling in and it looks like it's more mainstream: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-honda-fit-hatchback-first-drive-review http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/09/2015-honda-fit-review-first-drive/ As it stands I see no reason to trade in my 13 Fit for the new model. It sounds like they didn't fix the gripes I have with my car (high rpm in overdrive, road noise, seat comfort), took away the things I do like (cargo space, steering and handling feel, storage pockets) and made some things worse (interior and exterior styling, clutch feel, higher belt line.) I average 29/37 mpg with my manual transmission but maybe the new model will beat the EPA estimates too.
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Apr 9, 2014 20:32
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Bulk Vanderhuge posted:Reviews for the 2015 Honda Fit are trickling in and it looks like it's more mainstream: How well do adults fit in the back of the...Fit? I'm trying to decide between that or the first gen xB.
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Apr 9, 2014 20:52
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Coredump posted:How well do adults fit in the back of the...Fit? I'm trying to decide between that or the first gen xB. The new Fit has dramatically increased rear legroom and I don't think headroom will be an issue, so it'll probably have one of the most spacious backseats in the segment. They're going to sell a ton of these now that they've sucked out all the character from them.
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Apr 9, 2014 21:01
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What about the old Fit?
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Apr 9, 2014 21:09
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Coredump posted:What about the old Fit? As I recall from my brief experience legroom can be a little cramped but there's lots of headroom even for tall people.
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Apr 9, 2014 21:16
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