|
Tulas Shorn is a massive badass. I'm excited to see what happens to him over the rest of the Kharkanas trilogy.
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 22:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 23:59 |
|
|
The Ninth Layer posted:Tulas Shorn is a massive badass. I'm excited to see what happens to him over the rest of the Kharkanas trilogy. I particularly look forward to him training the 'children' who seem clearly destined to become what we know as the Hounds (certainly of Shadow, and perhaps some others). Ynglaur posted:Well, that's a relief. He was an okay character in Gardens of the Moon, but I'm just starting Toll the Hounds and have found him insufferable ever since. Icarium started off interesting, but with no real character development since his introduction, Ifind sectinos with him to be a slog. Mappo makes up for a lot, however. I can't help but wonder if these sentiments are intended by the author, however. Most characters seem to like Fiddler and barely tolerate Hedge, in spite of their friendship, and I feel much the same. Yeah, Cutter definitely goes through a long angsty phase (of which, to be fair, a lot is understandable given the circumstances - but it's still rough), but he definitely sees an enormous improvement in the last few books as he comes to terms with his lot in life. With regard to Icarium, you will never really see 'character development' with him, much like you won't with any of the characters who are hundreds of thousands of years old or whatever, for the obvious reason that - in context, and outside of extenuating circumstances - they've already developed as much as they're going to, and in Icarium's case particularly he more acts as a foil for other characters (eg: Mappo). That said, if you're just starting TtH, the best of Icarium is still ahead of you. I guess I didn't really have a problem with the character. Some poster recently referred to him as 'useless,' which I guess is true in Icarium's case in much the same way that looking at the first and last frames of a horse race is useless. But in between he ends up being (directly or indirectly) responsible for or tied into to a lot of the major developments of the story. Re: Hedge I assumed as well that him not being particularly likable (he's like your 35 year old friend that still finds fart jokes and new Adam Sandler movies funny) was intended - but, as with Icarium, the best of Hedge is still ahead of you. Once he gets his own company of Letheri sappers in training, he gets a lot more interesting. (the spoiler isn't huge, but it is a spoiler). And I like Udinaas.  I don't see what makes him unlikeable, as I think he has one of the more interesting individual story arcs, in terms of where he starts, where he goes, and how he gets there. He's also not more powerful than the previous guy. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 22:46
|
|
|
I like to think that if Udinaas was ever hit by a train, he'd flip off the conductor just before being hit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 23:19
|
|
|
I enjoyed Udinaas as well, but I'm also one of like two people here who enjoys Nimander so
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 23:25
|
|
|
Oh Snapple! posted:I enjoyed Udinaas as well, but I'm also one of like two people here who enjoys Nimander so If nimander was presented from someone else's pov, he would have come off pretty badass. We only get the whinging because we're inside his head
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 00:04
|
|
|
Habibi posted:I particularly look forward to him training the 'children' who seem clearly destined to become what we know as the Hounds (certainly of Shadow, and perhaps some others). I asked about it earlier in the thread but yeah in one of the later books he blatantly states in a inner monologue that he created the Hounds of Shadow
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 00:41
|
|
|
Levitate posted:I asked about it earlier in the thread but yeah in one of the later books he blatantly states in a inner monologue that he created the Hounds of Shadow In Toll the Hounds he freaks out about seeing 2 Hounds of Light mixing with the Hounds of Shadow and drops the knowledge that he trained/created/brainwashed the hounds of shadow into whatever they are.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 02:56
|
|
|
Levitate posted:I asked about it earlier in the thread but yeah in one of the later books he blatantly states in a inner monologue that he created the Hounds of Shadow Correct, and in FoD there is a race of creatures who seem to be the forerunners of the Jheck (the Soletaken wolves we first encounter with Trull and Co.), who have an ability to transform into the near-horse-sized, bulky dogs that the Hounds are often described as resembling, although the way it's described their ability is innate / natural in some way and not an actual Soletaken type transformation. Having lost a war to the Tiste, they agreed to a bargain to deliver X amount of children as 'hostages' or something (getting hazy on specifics), and towards the end of the book it's set up that Kagamandra Tulas should train them - due to the Tiste not wanting wild children who can become huge dogs running around unhouse-trained or whatnot - because he was known for his dog (in this case actual dog) training abilities. So it's a pretty easy inference that the Hounds is where that particular arc is going. Oh Snapple! posted:I enjoyed Udinaas as well, but I'm also one of like two people here who enjoys Nimander so Dalmuti posted:If nimander was presented from someone else's pov, he would have come off pretty badass. We only get the whinging because we're inside his head This, and also I think without Clip (who, if I had to choose a character Erikson could have 100% done without, would be it), Nimander I think would have come off as far less whiny. I actually enjoyed his character development quite a bit. Given the circumstances he starts out with, some of his whining is completely excusable, and he really gets his poo poo together later.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 03:17
|
|
|
So what's the relationship between the Tiste Edur Hold of Shadow and the modern House of Shadow?
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 03:33
|
|
|
amuayse posted:So what's the relationship between the Tiste Edur Hold of Shadow and the modern House of Shadow? Er, could I assume you mean the relationship between Kurald Emurlahn and the modern realm of Shadow, since the 'House' of Shadow refers to the rulers / subservients of Shadow, not the realm itself? If so, then tl;dr (Malazan): modern Shadow is a splinter of Kurald Emurlahn, the latter having been weakened severely by Icarium and then shattered by the actions of Scabandari (and I think others were at various points implicated but I can't recall specifically who). Shadow is but one splinter - others exist, generally much smaller, and many have been claimed over the eons by other entities (eg: the Whirlwind goddess was actually an Imass in one such fragment of Emurlahn, hence the power she wielded). FoD: Interestingly, it appears that all of the Kurald realms (certainly Galain - I'm inferring the rest based on the events of the book) were originally completely normal parts of the Malazan world. It wasn't until Draconus gifted Mother Dark with the Gate to Darkness (placed right in her throne room in Kharkanas) that they began to acquire a supernatural identity / effect.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 04:16
|
|
|
Okay, I've read Erikson for years; Read the entire series back to back at least twice, and still to this day, I don't feel I have any idea what the gently caress Korabas, the Otataral Dragon is all about. TCG Spoilerchat: She's let out by Errant and chums in a bid for power, though how this will restore their power doesn't feel very explained to me, and when she's out the Eleint flip their poo poo, which is never explained apart from her alignment with Otataral, and then she's chained again, (Because her fight with the other Eleint will summon Tiam, okay, but the reasons for the fight in the first place aren't so it ends up looking pretty harsh on Korabas who just seems to want to make something, though what is poorly defined) and finally why is everyone okay that this Dragon that's actually done nothing spends it's entire existence chained up just so the other Eleint don't go mental? (Once again, slightly ironic considering the whole storyline for the Crippled God himself, especially Quick & Co.) N.B I've been intentionally thick there to some extent, there's hints to a lof of those questions in TCG, but I just never felt like it was adequately answered.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 09:32
|
|
|
Shockeh posted:Okay, I've read Erikson for years; Read the entire series back to back at least twice, and still to this day, I don't feel I have any idea what the gently caress Korabas, the Otataral Dragon is all about. IIRC, otataral only nullifies modern magic and not elder. Them gods had access to elder magic so it's basically trying to take the nukes away from the new guys while keeping your own. Dunno about the other questions you have but thats why they did it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 13:57
|
|
|
Habibi posted:This, and also I think without Clip (who, if I had to choose a character Erikson could have 100% done without, would be it), Nimander I think would have come off as far less whiny. I actually enjoyed his character development quite a bit. Given the circumstances he starts out with, some of his whining is completely excusable, and he really gets his poo poo together later. Clip was a loving terrible character  Habibi posted:Er, could I assume you mean the relationship between Kurald Emurlahn and the modern realm of Shadow, since the 'House' of Shadow refers to the rulers / subservients of Shadow, not the realm itself? Aren't the other "shadow" warrens basically splinters of shattered Kurald Emurlahn as well or am I mis-remembering that? Shockeh posted:Okay, I've read Erikson for years; Read the entire series back to back at least twice, and still to this day, I don't feel I have any idea what the gently caress Korabas, the Otataral Dragon is all about. Don't have a great grasp on it either but I think it has something to do with the "two sides of a coin" type of relationship that's talked a lot about in the books. When K'rul created the warrens there had to be a kind of opposite force to oppose them as well, and that was Korabas. I don't remember if it's explained how exactly she came into being but that was the driving purpose behind her existence, and then she was quickly captured and staked to the ground so she wouldn't cause trouble. I *think* that she's also kind of anti-eleint as well which is why they all flip their poo poo when she's released, but I'd have to read that again
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 15:45
|
|
|
Shockeh posted:Okay, I've read Erikson for years; Read the entire series back to back at least twice, and still to this day, I don't feel I have any idea what the gently caress Korabas, the Otataral Dragon is all about. IIRC she was actually not released in a bid for power - I think both Errastas and Kilmandaros admit to this at one point. Kilmandaros even tells Setchul that she pretty much only did it to sow chaos (which Korabas will by nature do - not Chaos, just chaos) and essentially force Draconus to kill her. However, her release was no accident (more on that later). Re: Korabas and her chaining - she's not aligned with Otataral. She IS Otataral. Just as every flavor of non-Elder magic has an Eleint aspect (eg: Silanah for Telas), so does its absence. She exists to balance the others out, but because her nature is so opposed to magic, she pretty much can't be allowed to roam free because her mere presence will destroy it. Unlike TCG, who has been driven for various reasons and used to be a force of Chaos in the world, that's just Korabas' normal, unintentional state. We also glimpse from her perspective in TCG that she actually WANTS to be imprisoned (IIRC), because she is aware of what her presence does, as well as the fact that it draws other Eleint - it's not that their fight summons Tiam, but rather the presence of a ton of dragons in the same place, again IIRC. I want to say the other Eleint are drawn to her instictually, but I may be misremembering. She is, I believe, also Tiam's opposite, and had to be chained originally as part of K'rul's bargain with Tiam in order for him to slice himself open and bring accessible magic into the world. Coming back to her release, it appears that the actions of Errastas and Co were either predicted by Shadowthrone, or else they were somehow manipulated into doing it (these details I'm hazy on for sure), but in any case, her presence was required at the release of the Crippled God, as her Otataral essence was apparently the only sure thing that could dissolve the multitude of magical chains that had bound him to the world (I am pretty sure that was it, anyway - having the books on my Kindle makes it a pain to flip through pages to find passages if I neglect to bookmark them ahead of time). So, yeah. That was kind of the deal. Korabas was mentally a pretty benign dragon whose presence just happened to unravel the fabric of the world. And she realized it, and from her thoughts in TCG the idea seemed to bother her enough that she actually sought imprisonment. I'm sure someone can correct me on any of the specifics I may have slipped on.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 21:06
|
|
|
Levitate posted:Clip was a loving terrible character quote:Aren't the other "shadow" warrens basically splinters of shattered Kurald Emurlahn as well or am I mis-remembering that?
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 21:18
|
|
|
It consistently astounds me just how much you've taken in and remembered from this series, and I mean that in a good way. I can just barely remember the plot by this point.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 07:28
|
|
|
Lether is pretty much North America, right?
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2014 02:37
|
|
|
amuayse posted:Lether is pretty much North America, right? Yeah, capitalism, indebtedness and the empty throne republic.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2014 14:08
|
|
|
I meant more the geography and the flora/fauna but yeah there's that. The Edur are pretty much Greenland/Canadian native Americans.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2014 14:22
|
|
|
amuayse posted:Lether is pretty much North America, right? Actually, no - it's supposed to be more along the lines of Rome.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2014 03:25
|
|
|
the least weasel posted:It consistently astounds me just how much you've taken in and remembered from this series, and I mean that in a good way. I can just barely remember the plot by this point. There's just something about Erikson's work that appeals to me in a way that most fantasy authors' do not. It may be because I've always loved puzzles, and Malazan is nothing if not a collection of them, and although I know it turns many readers of fantasy off, being thrown into a crazy situation without any context and then slowly given [often unreliable] clues about goings on and being asked to put them together was not only fascinating and novel, but immensely satisfying once pieces began to fit together - satisfying in a way that I've experienced with few authors in any genre, let alone fantasy/scifi. It certainly doesn't hurt that Erikson (personal opinion warning) is possibly one of the best authors I've read in terms of juggling a multitude of seemingly disparate storylines for 2/3 a book and then suddenly having them weave together into an insane, interconnected rollercoaster in the final stanza. Conversely, for example, Sanderson readers like to talk about the 'Sanderson avalanche,' but while it's nice to have the detailed explanations and resolutions he provides, to me it comes off as a massive infodump in the latter stages of a book, feeling artificial if not outright forced. Whereas I find the, uh, "Erikson rollercoaster" to be a more natural interweaving of individually developing storylines (as I write this, it strikes me that avalanches come out of nowhere to bury you, but when you find yourself flying down the decline of a rollercoaster, it's the cumulative result of the previous twists, turns, and rising actions). Anyway, the end result of all of this is that the necessity of piecing things together seems to stick those details in my mind better than if I were to just read them (I'm already a little foggy on many of the details of the last Mistborn book, and I just read that trilogy in March). It probably helps that, since discovering it about eights years ago, I've read this freaking decalogy four times - the latter three to refresh my memory enough to not be totally lost for the releases of DoD, TCG, and FoD. And even then you'll probably notice I tend to use phrases like 'I think it may have been' and 'I'm hazy about this / I may be misremembering but' a whole lot when posting in this thread. These loving books
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2014 04:36
|
|
|
Just finished reading fourth book and already 100 pages into fifth.drat you Erikson ,can't stop reading! Help me goons, are we supposed to know who is that keeper guy ( he helps Karsa and Torvald on that beach ). Did I miss something or we gonna find out more about him later ?
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2014 00:28
|
|
|
The dude with the T-Rex skeleton that can punch hard enough to put Karsa down? You will figure it out in a couple more books...
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2014 00:55
|
|
|
I don't remember if you hear about who he is before you run into him there, you might not learn that until... Bonehunters, I think? If you want to know, though, he's Urko, the brother of Cartheron Crust, one of Emperor Kellenvad's old companions.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2014 00:55
|
|
|
Spermy Smurf posted:The dude with the T-Rex skeleton that can punch hard enough to put Karsa down? Yeah ! That's the one,thanks guys! Yeah, I avoided google because I wanted to avoid spoilers. Thing is I kinda had a month break between memories of ice and house of chains, so I thought it was maybe something I missed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2014 01:59
|
|
|
I'm reading GotM for the first time, about halfway through and I love it. After I'm done with a chapter I'm reading the Amanda part Tor Reread for the chapter though, because that way I get lots of details that would probably be lost on me. Really excited to get into this series.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2014 20:39
|
|
|
Finished reading the crippled god last night. And then I decided to re-read the Bauchelain & Korbal Broach series today. So many references in the B&KB novellas that I missed the first time around, especially the forkula assail & the jaghut creating races like the jhag bolead, and sech'kellyn. Anyone willing to translate what Nep Furrow said in the Crippled God epilogue? People in this thread have commented that Esslemont has been uneven. I basically want to find out what happened in Darujhistan. How much would I be missing if I jumped to Orb Sceptre Throne?
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2014 04:01
|
|
|
tuluk posted:Finished reading the crippled god last night. And then I decided to re-read the Bauchelain & Korbal Broach series today. Yeah Orb Sceptre Throne is almost entirely based in Darujhistan. I'm an advocate for Esslemont's stuff, though. If you haven't read Night of Knives, Return of the Crimson Guard, and Stonewielder and don't think you'd ever want to, read a plot summary or spoilers or something. Some relatively important things happen to relatively important characters that definitely impacts some of the threads from Orb Sceptre Throne. You can safely skip Night of Knives, but RotCG and Stonewielder are decent fantasy novels and take place in a world you're already fairly invested in. Esslemont's writing has gotten better with each new release, but the books do feel like diversions from the meat happening in Erikson's stuff.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2014 05:25
|
|
|
Cool thanks for the reply. It made sense.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2014 05:47
|
|
|
Does anyone know where I could find the larger sized paperback of Memories of Ice? All I can find is the mass market one, and having one book in a different size is going to drive me mad.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2014 22:54
|
|
|
You may have to wait a while. I've been seeing bigger copies of GotM and Deadhouse Gates on sale and figured they were slowly revamping them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2014 22:58
|
|
|
I'm surprised Darujhistan isn't a smoldering ruin considering all the crazy poo poo that happens to it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2014 23:45
|
|
|
When I'm done with GotM should I just continues with Deadhouse Gates? That seems to be the recommended reading order from the op, but the re-read is reading Night of Knives next...is there any merit not to follow the reading order in the op? Kruppe is the coolest little mage(?). I always figured he would be some hardboiled military guy, because I read the name somewhere before starting the book. Maybe it's because I'm german, but Kruppe sounds very hard/rough to me. Maybe I just don't get how to pronounce it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2014 06:36
|
|
|
Just read straight through the main series then Esslemont's stuff if you really need something extra in the world.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2014 08:23
|
|
|
Yeah, just keep on straight into Deadhouse Gates, and prepare to meet a whole collection of characters that turn into some of the biggest badasses in the entire series. And some that don't. Deadhouse Gates Spoiler: (Seriously, don't click this if you haven't read it, it's a major point.) I genuinely find the final Coltaine passage distressing. You WANT them to make it somehow against the odds, so very badly.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2014 08:56
|
|
|
Hantama posted:
I'm currently reading midnight tides and I find Tehol to be kinda Kruppe type of character. I read online that not a lot of people really like him but for now I think he's really cool.It's kinda refreshing to follow his adventures with Bugg
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2014 21:59
|
|
|
Started on Night of Knives yesterday after finishing Midnight Tides. This book would probably have been a lot better if Erikson wrote it. Temper's all right, but the Kiska sections are pretty bad.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2014 22:10
|
|
|
Deranged M posted:I'm currently reading midnight tides and I find Tehol to be kinda Kruppe type of character. I read online that not a lot of people really like him but for now I think he's really cool.It's kinda refreshing to follow his adventures with Bugg That is one of the best characters in the series and you shouldn't trust anyone who says otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2014 23:32
|
|
|
Deranged M posted:I read online that not a lot of people really like him Who are these people, and why haven't they been banned from having opinions?
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2014 23:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 23:59 |
|
|
Deranged M posted:I'm currently reading midnight tides and I find Tehol to be kinda Kruppe type of character. I read online that not a lot of people really like him but for now I think he's really cool.It's kinda refreshing to follow his adventures with Bugg Where the loving gently caress did you read that?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2014 06:10
|
|