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ChaosSamusX posted:Oh man, I missed that part. I can't believe there are still people who belive this. I don't think that we should rule out the possibility that the guy actually thinks that Bangladesh is in Africa and has never heard of that push-poll.
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Apr 11, 2014 04:54
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I hope this is the right thread for this. Has anyone been following the cattle rancher dispute in Nevada? It's been news here for awhile but it seems to be breaking nationally. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/07/nevada-officials-blast-feds-over-treatment-cattle-rancher-cliven-bundy/ http://rt.com/usa/nevada-ranch-armed-feds-520/ http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/04/10/anti-government-patriots-gather-near-scene-of-nevada-ranchers-dispute-over-cattle-grazing-rights/ In short, a cattle rancher in Nevada has been refusing to pay grazing fees for feeding his cattle on federal land. The Bureau of Land Management has been threatening to seize his cattle, and he has promised an armed response. Right wing media has begun to spin this as the next Waco or Ruby Ridge, and apparently various "militias" have been arriving from around the country in support.There have already been a few encounters, with the ranchers son getting tazed for resisitng arrest. All the local tea party and Ron Paul types here in Nevada are salivating, I think they see this as the tipping in a new civil war they have been fantasizing about since Obama was elected. This story seems to be a right wing honeypot. It has guns, the federal government, endangered species and states rights. I think it has potential to be a very big story if things go to pot. You see the response the right wing has had to things like Chic Fil A and Duck Dynasty, this could be their new rally point.
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Apr 11, 2014 05:29
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Countdown until Paul Ryan calls for privatizing all federal lands...
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Apr 11, 2014 05:31
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So he's grazing his cattle on land that isn't his and refusing to pay for it, but confiscating his cattle would be a violation of property rights? Am I getting this correctly?
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Apr 11, 2014 05:34
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We must fight them in Nevada so that we don't have to fight them in California.
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Apr 11, 2014 05:37
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Pope Guilty posted:So he's grazing his cattle on land that isn't his and refusing to pay for it, but confiscating his cattle would be a violation of property rights? Am I getting this correctly? "Property rights" = gently caress you, got mine *middle finger with both hands*
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Apr 11, 2014 05:38
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Probably some stupid excuse that his taxes pay for federal land therefore stealing is ok.
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Apr 11, 2014 05:40
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joeburz posted:Probably some stupid excuse that his taxes pay for federal land therefore stealing is ok. From what I heard, he claims the land is rightfully his because he's Mormon. No idea what difference that makes, but that's what I heard.
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Apr 11, 2014 05:42
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joeburz posted:Probably some stupid excuse that his taxes pay for federal land therefore stealing is ok. His argument is that his family bought grazing rights in 1887 , before the BLM even existed. I'm sure he wouldn't mind the local Pauite tribe claiming his land, since they were here before his family existed.
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Apr 11, 2014 05:44
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PostNouveau posted:Nah she just kinda flinched. She's not a shoe-ducking phenom like Dubya. To be fair the guy who threw the shoe at W telegraphed the gently caress out of it.
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Apr 11, 2014 05:52
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emptyspace posted:Never heard of that, and it's loving fascinating. Would you happen to have a link to where I could read more about it? Here you go http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/business/06insurance.html?pagewanted=all I'm pretty drunk now so remind me this weekend and I can pull more
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Apr 11, 2014 07:15
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Your Gay Uncle posted:I hope this is the right thread for this. Has anyone been following the cattle rancher dispute in Nevada? It's been news here for awhile but it seems to be breaking nationally. This is the right thread for it but this topic has also popped up in the political cartoons thread so you might want the cross post this there
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Apr 11, 2014 07:17
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Levin was talking about the cattle thing a few days back, and got it completely wrong. He ended it with, "You know any national parks in Nevada? I sure don't." as some kind of hard common sense proof that statism is trying to murder an honest rancher.
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Apr 11, 2014 09:08
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ErIog posted:Levin was talking about the cattle thing a few days back, and got it completely wrong. He ended it with, "You know any national parks in Nevada? I sure don't." as some kind of hard common sense proof that statism is trying to murder an honest rancher. A ten second check using the Google term "National Park Nevada" revealed Great Basin National Park located entirely in Nevada along with Death Valley National Park which straddles the California-Nevada border, along with several National Recreation Areas and National Historic Trails and Landmarks. So not only is Levin mixing up the National Park Service and the Bureau of Land Management, his wacko wrong argument is even wronger. On top of that Death Valley National Park isn't even obscure, pretty much everyone's heard of it because it holds global records for high temperature.
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Apr 11, 2014 09:43
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When I originally heard about the NV thing I thought it was up north in the middle of nowhere but that guy is grazing his cattle in the Lake Mead National Recreation Area. He's loving insane if he thinks that would go unchallenged. Outside of the federal land in NV used by the military that's easily the most important piece of property in the region. Also I need to find the article I read but he had this great quote about how he was a better steward of the land and included his ability to keep the brush from growing too densely which is hilarious to anyone who's ever seen that region of NV. I drove through it today and thick brush isn't even on the list of concerns. The other major concern with that region is the desert tortoise is protected and he's trespassing on part of that protected land. The desert tortoise issue is powerful enough that it killed plans for another solar plant in the region. And here's his legal basis: quote:"My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley ever since 1877. All these rights I claim have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and water. I have been here longer. My rights are before the BLM even existed," Bundy said. http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25168654/i-team-feds-and-nevada-rancher-facing-off-over-public-lands My ancestors were part of the Virginia Colony, guess that means I've got a large tract of land in the Kentucky/W Virginia region I can go claim now. Relentlessboredomm fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Apr 11, 2014 |
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Apr 11, 2014 10:02
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As everyone knows things never change ever, so clearly his Civil-War era claims are exactly the same as they were then.
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Apr 11, 2014 10:09
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Stereotype posted:As everyone knows things never change ever, so clearly his Civil-War era claims are exactly the same as they were then. gently caress that train of thought, we don't even need it because we still have a few Native Americans around. If when your ancestors started using a piece of land supersedes federal ownership then I guess the rest of us can hop on boats and go back where we came from, cause those dudes have us beat. Also funnily enough keeping brush from getting thick is not actually automatically good stewardship of the land. In fact it often means you're a piss poor steward. God, the more I read the more I hate this fucker and anyone who supports his dumb rear end. cafel fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Apr 11, 2014 |
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Apr 11, 2014 10:15
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Oh I know, it's just such a laughable claim. Getting anything to grow at all in that region is a miracle and you want a pat on the back for your cows eating what little is there? Yea ok. This weird historical claim business reminds me. Bizarrely enough in CA the water rights are based on historical precedent from claims made during the Gold Rush era. This is just a reminder that water issues in CA are absurdly complicated.
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Apr 11, 2014 10:20
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Hahaha:quote:During the 2012 presidential election, voters reportedly waited on line for upwards of six hours. That wait alone is enough to deter would-be voters from going to the polls. But now residents in Florida’s most populous county will have another disincentive: they won’t be able to go to the bathroom. Got to do something, I suppose, when the opposition outnumbers your party by tens of millions. This is petty enough maybe it'll register as obvious to average voters. Accretionist fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Apr 11, 2014 |
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Apr 11, 2014 10:51
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gradenko_2000 posted:I like the guy suggesting that Sarah Palin should be HHS Secretary. Or any other possible position, really. I'm pretty sure that's sarcasm. "Your selections have always been the best, John  "
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Apr 11, 2014 13:50
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Here's the thing about the Rancher guy - I am worried it will end up like another Waco, because the feds are playing this just as loving pants-on-head-retarded now as they did then. The guy is breaking the law and refusing to follow court orders. Why the hell didn't they just arrest the bastard when they started? Why did they wait 20 years to start taking action against him? Why establish "free speech zones" and bring down the anger of the state gov, who was until that point letting them handle it? Why such an insane response, and why isn't it over yet? I swear, the Feds end up getting this urge every so often to whip out their dick and wave it around, and drat the consequences, and if this goes south it's going to be entirely their fault for being super-incompetent. Again.
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Apr 11, 2014 14:00
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I think the best way to deal with that rancher would be if some Paiutes caught him on camera at the grocery store and started asking him about his natural rights that predate the BLM. Followed by "ok dude, we'll see you back at the house. Not your house. Well, you probably call it your house." Ridicule seems like the best and safest course to make this guy vanish.
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Apr 11, 2014 14:18
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Yeah "my ancestors used this land before the Federal Government and thus it's now mine" really isn't the road white Americans want to go down.
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Apr 11, 2014 14:20
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Radish posted:Yeah "my ancestors used this land before the Federal Government and thus it's now mine" really isn't the road white Americans want to go down. Watch this guy claim to be 1/640,000th Cherokee or something else unprovable. I'm personally fine with the feds setting up a honeypot like this as long as they're willing to actually regulate on people when they start getting shot at.
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Apr 11, 2014 14:27
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GlyphGryph posted:Here's the thing about the Rancher guy - I am worried it will end up like another Waco, because the feds are playing this just as loving pants-on-head-retarded now as they did then. Waco was a tragedy because of innocents being involved. I'd be hard pressed to do more than shrug if a few truckloads of right wing militiamen are shot for firing on Federal agents.
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Apr 11, 2014 14:34
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Accretionist posted:Hahaha:  You don't gently caress around with disabled access, though. Hopefully that will help get this shut down.
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Apr 11, 2014 14:37
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The key of why the Mormon rancher in Nevada gets to claim his ancestral rites and Native Americans don't is in his use of the term "beneficial use" of the land. If I recall this was a justification given by Ayn Rand why it was okay for white Europeans to seize the land and resources of America, because the natives didn't know how to utilize that land and those resources properly and thus were not entitled to ownership, that's the gist of the argument.
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Apr 11, 2014 14:43
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Ayn Rand as a person and her ideology benefit massively when people don't really look into them too strongly or know what they are actually about. Most people hear that and think it's just another hardline right wing thing with an emphasis on income taxes being bad. When you actually start hearing the arguments you realize it's an absurd, racist, evil, hypocritical stance that's really all about explaining why it's ok for "certain" people to be openly corrupt and encourages sociopathic behavior and it loses a little of the benefit of the doubt that people give it and its adherents like Paul Ryan. People in this country like to pretend that the whole Native American genocide thing didn't really happen or to ignore it, but if you have a white, cattle rancher start going off about how it's ok his great-gandfather stole the land because the people previously there weren't using it right all the while complaining about how the government is being a Nazi for trying to take it back I think it's going to give him and his argument a lot of well deserved scorn.
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Apr 11, 2014 14:56
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Radish posted:Yeah "my ancestors used this land before the Federal Government and thus it's now mine" really isn't the road white Americans want to go down. I don't understand, I was always taught in history class that all the land west of the Cumberland Gap was completely empty because 'Muricans showed up. That's why it was called the "frontier", it was completely empty, like outer space. Tatum Girlparts posted:The best part about Leverage is almost all the over the top 'ha ha crazy rich people would never gently caress people over like that right?' are usually based on real things that happen. It's revenge fantasy based in reality. Pretty sure in a blog post, John Rogers, one of the Leverage show-runners, said that they had to frequently tone-down the real life stories because they came across as too cartoonishly evil for cable TV. Like the Season 3 premiere is based on the "Cash for Kids" judge/jail kickbacks scandal, but they had to make it about adults to make it believable for TV. My Face When posted:So I have a story to share about my local area. We have two army depots, Red River and Lone Star ammo. Besides the tire plant and paper mills, they are a major contributor to jobs and our local economy. In high school, the two depots were threatened to be shut down completely. There was a large public outrage to keep the two opened, which we won. However, it's been threatened again by BRAC. I feel like the previous answer only touched on this kinda vaguely. BRAC (Base Realignment And Closure) is a process by which Congress tries to save money by consolidating and closing military bases. The military comes up with a list of ideas of how to move things around and re-organize and what can be shuttered, and then Congress fights about it. Because military bases are such a huge boon to local economies, BRAC is extremely contentious in Congress with any congressman near a military base at risk fighting hard to keep it open. As usual in military matters the thoughts and requests of the military brass in these matters take secondary priority to Congressional pork (look at military appropriations for another example - we buy the military poo poo it doesn't want just because the factories are in politically convenient districts). AATREK CURES KIDS posted:What an awful budget. Over the next ten years: $5.2 trillion in spending cuts, $5.7 trillion in tax cuts, an additional $5.7 trillion in revenue from closing loopholes and ending deductions, and $7.3 trillion in additional revenue from economic growth. His plan only works if the economy grows at a rate of at least 5%* for the next 10 years. You might as well say Obama's budget balances if you assume healthcare-loving aliens give us a spaceship full of gold. Sorry to bring this back from a few pages ago, but how is Paul Ryan saving (or claiming he can save) $2 Trillion on repealing Obamacare? I mean the CBO projects that it'll on net cost money to repeal all of Obamacare, and the popular parts of it are the parts that cost money. So is he just gutting everything that costs money and leaving the painful parts and taxes in place or what?
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Apr 11, 2014 14:57
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Jackson Taus posted:
Exactly. He's taking away everything the bill does to help people get health care and leaving in all the medicare cuts and fees.
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Apr 11, 2014 15:04
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Talmonis posted:Waco was a tragedy because of innocents being involved. I'd be hard pressed to do more than shrug if a few truckloads of right wing militiamen are shot for firing on Federal agents. And I now have the local libertarian in my office talking about awful it is for this guys to be getting fisted by the long arm of the law. Honestly, there's nothing better to me than some fuckwit actually having to admit that he's not an island and in fact directly depends on the state for his employment.
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Apr 11, 2014 15:07
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The DOOM LOOP of Oligarchy http://www.vox.com/2014/4/11/5581272/doom-loop-oligarchy Pretty pro read if you need a quick summary
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Apr 11, 2014 15:10
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Sanders isn't pulling any punches now, god drat. http://www.sanders.senate.gov/koch-brothers
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Apr 11, 2014 15:12
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joeburz posted:Sanders isn't pulling any punches now, god drat. I think that piece is pretty tame considering what their stated goals are, putting this country into feudalism.
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Apr 11, 2014 15:15
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Relentlessboredomm posted:When I originally heard about the NV thing I thought it was up north in the middle of nowhere but that guy is grazing his cattle in the Lake Mead National Recreation Area. He's loving insane if he thinks that would go unchallenged. Outside of the federal land in NV used by the military that's easily the most important piece of property in the region. So that's where all the New Vegas Brahmin came from. Seriously though, Nevada is the most federally-owned state in the union, I think.
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Apr 11, 2014 15:25
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Taerkar posted:So that's where all the New Vegas Brahmin came from. Yep. 
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Apr 11, 2014 15:30
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Obama's pretty dumb asking for Sebellius resignation at this time. Now every headline is "Sebellius resigns over Obamacare troubles and website woes" when the website is working loving fine and they surpassed their sign up goals by over half a million and lowered the god drat uninsurance rate a ton. But nope, media is back to "Obamacare had a bad website in October. Is failure." Weird how they remember back that far for healthcare.gov but forgot the government being shut down by Republican assholes for literally no god drat reason.
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Apr 11, 2014 15:35
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Sebellius wasn't asked to resign.
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Apr 11, 2014 15:42
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joeburz posted:Sebellius wasn't asked to resign. Sebellius wasn't "asked" to resign. They never are. They all "choose" to resign.
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Apr 11, 2014 15:45
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joeburz posted:Sebellius wasn't asked to resign. Well, we have no idea whether she was or not. They never say they were asked to resign.
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Apr 11, 2014 15:48
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