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Tiler Kiwi posted:I think the best way to go about it is approaching it from a Milgram obedience experiment style event chain. There should be a way for a player to carry out the Holocaust, but not as much from the perspective of "why would Hitler / the Nazis want to do it (answer: because he/they were racist shitheads, big surprise), but more from "Why would the German people be complicit in such a horrible act?" This makes no sense though. You don't play some kind of imaginary hivemind of the German people, you play as Germany. You can't have an event where "people agree with the ruling party" somehow gives a penalty when it would be beneficial in every other case.
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Apr 13, 2014 12:26
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GrossMurpel posted:This makes no sense though. You don't play some kind of imaginary hivemind of the German people, you play as Germany. You can't have an event where "people agree with the ruling party" somehow gives a penalty when it would be beneficial in every other case. Did you read the rest of that post? The penalty wasn't because the people agreed with the ruling party, it was because the people agreed with the ruling party and the player decided to go against their terrible, terrible wishes.
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Apr 13, 2014 13:01
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GrossMurpel posted:This makes no sense though. You don't play some kind of imaginary hivemind of the German people, you play as Germany. You can't have an event where "people agree with the ruling party" somehow gives a penalty when it would be beneficial in every other case. Well you have to answer the question of who exactly "you" are in the game. I mean, generally in these grand strategy games you have literal 100% unmitigated control of the state you're playing in question, which in the case of Nazi Germany is pretty absurd, considering the amount of infighting going on. if you're Hitler or even just the hivemind of the ruling party, you're still looking at a situation where quite a lot of still powerful figures in the German government hate your guts in 1936 for various reasons, and even late your non-SS intel service, Abwehr, ends up headed by an anti-nazi. The tail end of Nazi Germany saw a series of purges following the failure of several anti-Hitler plots. So saying you're "Germany" is still assuming some kind of hivemind that wasn't there. In any case, the Nazi policies early on that targeting minorities were beneficial politically for the Nazis, but I don't think you could really say they helped out Germany itself, much. e: but yeah it is getting into the sort of social side of the war when its meant to be a focus on the milsim stuff, so im not advocating some faction stuff or whatever. just that assuming the player of a nation is any particular person or organization would be a step down as their current status of "national gestalt" or whatever the unconditional and omnipresent leader of all facets of a military organization would be. i figured an ever escalating series of decisions where inaction leads to increased stakes would be a good way to approximate how the german aristocracy/nationalists/moderates fell in line with Nazi ideology during the period Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Apr 13, 2014 |
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Apr 13, 2014 13:02
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Friend Commuter posted:Did you read the rest of that post? The penalty wasn't because the people agreed with the ruling party, it was because the people agreed with the ruling party and the player decided to go against their terrible, terrible wishes. No, he said if you roll with it you stil get a penalty. Tiler Kiwi posted:Well you have to answer the question of who exactly "you" are in the game. I mean, generally in these grand strategy games you have literal 100% unmitigated control of the state you're playing in question, which in the case of Nazi Germany is pretty absurd, considering the amount of infighting going on. if you're Hitler or even just the hivemind of the ruling party, you're still looking at a situation where quite a lot of still powerful figures in the German government hate your guts in 1936 for various reasons, and even late your non-SS intel service, Abwehr, ends up headed by an anti-nazi. The tail end of Nazi Germany saw a series of purges following the failure of several anti-Hitler plots. So saying you're "Germany" is still assuming some kind of hivemind that wasn't there. That's true I guess, you usually play as something more abstract than a party or a country. That still means the event option about them agreeing needs to give ruling party support or organization while giving a production penalty or whatever.
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Apr 13, 2014 13:35
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GrossMurpel posted:No, he said if you roll with it you stil get a penalty. You do get IC modifiers etc to reflect your ruling party's ability to mobilize industry etc.
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Apr 13, 2014 13:37
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Oh if you're meant to be the ruling party then its kind of moot and at that point you don't have in way to represent poo poo unless you want to let the player roleplay as, literally, History's Greatest Monster. Having it be some mechanical choice wouldn't even work because it would pretty much have to be entirely negative at some point because there was really not a single drat thing rational about those kind of atrocities, and you'd have to be a loving idiot or a racist shithead to want to carry it out, which I guess would be fitting and accurate in its own way???? yeah.
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Apr 13, 2014 13:47
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The cancellation of East vs. West has encouraged me to start working on my own Cold War mapgame. Very, very early in development obviously. It's basically a homage to the ancient Balance of Power/Shadow President games.
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Apr 13, 2014 14:25
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At least we all know what a good WWII game looks like.
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Apr 13, 2014 14:39
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:The cancellation of East vs. West has encouraged me to start working on my own Cold War mapgame. Is the map zoomable? However will I click The Gambia?
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Apr 13, 2014 14:56
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GrossMurpel posted:Is the map zoomable? Yep, pan and zoom with mouse. Though I'm thinking of cutting out/merging some of the tiny countries. That map is going to be modified a good amount, it's actually a current map at the moment. Sheng-Ji Yang fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Apr 13, 2014 |
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Apr 13, 2014 15:05
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:The cancellation of East vs. West has encouraged me to start working on my own Cold War mapgame. I desperately want this game. Is it going to be easily moddable? edit: how about a prompt in 1936 where hitler has a dream about the holocaust, wakes up in horror and then shoots himself. he's then replaced by Adolf Schmitler and the player's sole button is "we decide not to persecute anyone; the holocaust is cancelled" Concerned Citizen fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Apr 13, 2014 |
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Apr 13, 2014 15:08
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:The cancellation of East vs. West has encouraged me to start working on my own Cold War mapgame. Interesting, which countries will be playable?
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Apr 13, 2014 15:23
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PittTheElder posted:My favorite WWII game remains the Red Front scenario for Civilization II. The absolutely comical amount of units that would spawn for Germany probably do a pretty good job of approximating how it felt to be on the receiving end of Barbarossa. It was also insanely brutal. The first turn of the game has your entire front line being obliterated. And those other Civ II scenarios ... those memories ...
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Apr 13, 2014 15:24
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Concerned Citizen posted:I desperately want this game. Is it going to be easily moddable? I would genuinely be interested in a novel about how a young, pre-WWI Adolf Hitler would react if provided with knowledge of World War II and the Holocaust.
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Apr 13, 2014 15:34
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Pimpmust posted:Interesting, which countries will be playable? US and USSR. It'll be entirely in-browser and multiplayer. Balance of Power kinda sucks because you're brinksmanshipping (???) with a boring AI. Chatting with someone about how you're going to nuke them if they loving invade Cuba is a lot more satisfying. Not sure if I'll even include singleplayer at the moment. It'll be turn based, either one or two turns a year between 1950 and 1990. I'm not sure about modability. Maybe some sort of custom scenario system in the future. I was thinking of also including an alt-history Nazis win the war scenario with a cold war between Japan and Germany.
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Apr 13, 2014 15:58
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Tomn posted:I would genuinely be interested in a novel about how a young, pre-WWI Adolf Hitler would react if provided with knowledge of World War II and the Holocaust. Hitler, while anti-Semite before WW1 still believed there were good Jews ( he really liked his mother's doctor, who was Jewish) so he would probably be mildly disturbed by the holocaust.
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Apr 13, 2014 16:13
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:Yep, pan and zoom with mouse. Though I'm thinking of cutting out/merging some of the tiny countries. Worse than Hitler!!!!
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Apr 13, 2014 17:45
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El Pollo Blanco posted:Yeah, I mean if you look at it in the context of the Germanic states in the Crusader era, every Crusade was usually accompanied by extensive Pogroms as a means to raise cash to fund the expeditions to the Holy Land. That is essentially what 'expelling the Jewry' is as a decision, and why I'm not really keen on it even being in the game. I believe some historians have referred to the Pogroms that occurred before the first Crusade got underway as "the beginnings of 'modern' anti-semitism", though I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will probably come along, and point out I'm wrong. The Rhineland Pogroms and their later variants aren't really expelling the Jewry, though (horrible as they were). I always associated it more with how the Kingdom of England, both the nobles and the state itself, found itself hugely in debt to Jewish moneylenders and how Edward I expelled all the Jews from England in 1290 as a means of never having to pay his debts back.
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Apr 13, 2014 18:06
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lullelulle posted:I had an idea for a game like this once. The game would've been Weimar era Germany and have other countries/eras as DLC/patches or possibly have some more to start off with. This is an interesting idea but focusing on sliders is perhaps a bit abstract? At the party level all the decision points revolve around the actions of power players, interest groups, and factions. Basically, what this needs is a modern-day Hidden Agenda (1988).
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Apr 13, 2014 18:33
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How many pages of holocaust chat do we need?
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Apr 13, 2014 23:55
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We're on to Shadow President fangames now. (How I wish that was a real genre!)
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Apr 14, 2014 00:04
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Hey, I became Communist and lost the cool Durrani Empire tag and flag. Now I'm just Pashtunistan with a Chinese flag? How do I rename myself the Socialist Republic of Afghanistan? I'm playing Vicky 2 HoD with PDM.
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Apr 14, 2014 00:14
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Luigi Thirty posted:Hey, I became Communist and lost the cool Durrani Empire tag and flag. Now I'm just Pashtunistan with a Chinese flag? How do I rename myself the Socialist Republic of Afghanistan? Head to your Victoria 2 Folder, Open the Mod Folder and then the PDM Folder (Folders!) and open the localisation folder. Find 00_PDM_Countries.csv and open it with your friendly neighbourhood text editor. Look for whatever tag you are - assuming DUR for Durrani here and in amongst the names for the Durrani tag add (or edit): DUR_proletarian_dictatorship;Socialist Republic of Afghtanistan;;;;;;;;;;;;x or whatever applies, depending on tag or tastes. You can also create a new .csv file for your own personal localisations, just make sure it appears at the top of the folder by naming it 0000_AAAA or whatever. As for flags, you'll have to look at the flag folder and make your own/rename one etc.
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Apr 14, 2014 01:49
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Tiler Kiwi posted:... Starting as the Germans, the player would be informed about the Nazi Party's rhetoric catching on with the German populace; they could oppose it (middling short term pain) or roll with it (small long term pain) ... These games are leaky abstractions. The reasons why the German army committed so many atrocities during WW2 have nothing to do with anything that happened during the HoI3 time frame. In game terms, the Holocaust is the fruition of concepts that the NSDAP mainstreamed during Victoria II.
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Apr 14, 2014 05:03
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Is there any chance of Vicky getting another patch? I can't imagine it is, unfortunately, but hey, why not post anyway  (Didn't really think bumping the 9 month old thread on the localisation problems for it on PP was a good idea  ) There's one really annoying bug with the Form Yugoslavia decision. For some reason there are two, one which doesn't have any localisations for its name/description, but it's bugged way worse than that. It's clearly supposed to let you form it if you're a Balkan nation with Croatia/Bosnia/Serbia (excluding yourself) in your sphere of influence, but it currently lets you form it if you're a Balkan nation in the sphere of influence of another Balkan country with Croatia/Bosnia/Serbia (excluding itself) in its sphere of influence. So every time you become eligible to do it, so do all your Balkan spheres, and they will automatically take it the moment it's available. Since Yugo now exists, you can't then form it yourself. It's dumb and annoying 
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Apr 14, 2014 16:52
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Allyn posted:Is there any chance of Vicky getting another patch? I can't imagine it is, unfortunately, but hey, why not post anyway Since that's not a hardcoded bug, why not just remove the bugged decision yourself?
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Apr 14, 2014 17:18
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GrossMurpel posted:Since that's not a hardcoded bug, why not just remove the bugged decision yourself? Because I have never modded Vicky and am not particularly interested in learning how to, and it would be better to see it fixed and available to everyone rather than removed for me/remain broken for everyone else. It's not a big deal, and will not fire in 99% of games but I was loving around and found it; considering we're very lucky to have the ear of the developers here who can actually fix it I figured I may as well mention it
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Apr 14, 2014 17:43
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Vic2 is on sale at GMG, and having had a lot of fun with CK2 (and minimal experience playing EU4) - is it fun or frustrating? I see people saying both things about it.
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Apr 16, 2014 18:56
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monster on a stick posted:Vic2 is on sale at GMG, and having had a lot of fun with CK2 (and minimal experience playing EU4) - is it fun or frustrating? I see people saying both things about it. That's because it is both.  At least the base game is, anyway. If the expansions are on sale and you're okay with paying for all three I would definitely say to get it, because the expansions smooth out most of the issues. The base game I have a harder time recommending. I loved the base game and it was my favorite Paradox game until CK2 came out, but I was in a minority there and even then I felt like I was enjoying it despite a lot of clunkiness.
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Apr 16, 2014 19:03
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Either of the Victorias remain my favorite Paradox games, so you're not alone in that regard. There's just this great feeling about industrializing a country that makes you feel really powerful without having to resort to military conquest (although a lot of Victoria games end up with rampant conquest anyway!)
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Apr 16, 2014 19:18
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:That's because it is both. Hmm, thanks. The complete pack (Vic II + all DLCs + Vic 1) is on sale too, so I may just grab that. Also how hungry is it as far as system resources? Will this run fine on Intel 4000HD integrated graphics?
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Apr 16, 2014 19:38
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Definitely grab the complete Vicky pack, it's worth it. I eagerly await Paradox to release Vicky 3 with new improved engine and a design philosophy of releasing non-buggy games  And yes, you can definitely play Vicky 2 on that graphic card, I managed to play CK2 on it no problem. Paradox games are more processor intensive that they are graphic intensive, especially the older ones.
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Apr 16, 2014 20:23
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gradenko_2000 posted:Either of the Victorias remain my favorite Paradox games, so you're not alone in that regard. There's just this great feeling about industrializing a country that makes you feel really powerful without having to resort to military conquest (although a lot of Victoria games end up with rampant conquest anyway!) Add me to the Victoria fan legion. Taking Uncivilized countries and turing them into modern, industrialized nations feels goooood.
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Apr 17, 2014 23:41
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:I'm not sure about modability. Maybe some sort of custom scenario system in the future. I was thinking of also including an alt-history Nazis win the war scenario with a cold war between Japan and Germany. Like The Man in the High Castle? It's one of my favourite books and would actually make for a pretty interesting scenario!
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Apr 18, 2014 00:05
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oscarthewilde posted:Like The Man in the High Castle? It's one of my favourite books and would actually make for a pretty interesting scenario! Exactly. I'll probably modify the setting a bit, as the way it's described in the book everything is pretty much directly under the control of the Nazis/Japanese, so I'll have to add enough neutral and independent states to fight over... I'm going to have to actually finish the game before I start worrying about alternative scenarios though.
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Apr 18, 2014 02:02
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Hmm, a WWII factoid thread on the Paradox HoI IV forum. This might be an interesting read.quote:6. Did you know? oh 
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Apr 18, 2014 09:57
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but west-allied politian forces denied or even didnt answered
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Apr 18, 2014 10:47
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There's a nice article on the Paradox front-page about the Darkest Hour developers facilitating a wargaming exercise at the US Marine Corps War College. That it's broken down into slides also makes it one of best and most concise AARs in the Paradox forums ever On a separate note, I feel pretty good about Paradox making the big leagues as far as Diablo 3 having references to Crusader Kings and Hearts of Iron.
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Apr 18, 2014 11:25
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gradenko_2000 posted:On a separate note, I feel pretty good about Paradox making the big leagues as far as Diablo 3 having references to Crusader Kings and Hearts of Iron. Wait, what?
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Apr 18, 2014 11:32
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gradenko_2000 posted:On a separate note, I feel pretty good about Paradox making the big leagues as far as Diablo 3 having references to Crusader Kings and Hearts of Iron. Wait, what?
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Apr 18, 2014 11:32
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