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temple posted:Luca and her story was really sappy and why I don't read most manga. It had the least character development because she was same throughout and the other girl who had TB or whatever found the boring rear end will to live/love. I'd say everything about that section was great except Luca's story. In short, liking Luca is anti-Berserk and you should feel bad for enjoying it. Anti-Berserk?? The characters you like are relatively boring. Nina, that other prostitute, was interesting because while she was (quite rationally) terrified of everything happening around her and this informed her decisions, but even still she attempted to do the right thing every now and again. When I read through this stuff in my early teens I didn't like her, because she was a coward and betrayed Casca quickly, but the fact that torturers even started to get to work on her fingernail before she ratted out a more-or-less complete stranger that was a burden on her lifestyle shows that she's probably worth more than you or I would've been in that situation. Also, if we're talking about the women of Berserk: while the role she's settled into now hasn't been the most exciting material as of late, Farnese is without a doubt one of the most interesting characters of the series. There's a lot to sympathize with in the person she is and the person she's been, but online manga reader comments in those segments usually stop at "that bitch looks like a shemale." 
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Apr 13, 2014 13:02
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Luca's rad, Farnesse is weird but interesting in her flaws, and Schierke and Guts father/daughter moments are adorable, don't poo poo talk Berserk ladies. Also Wyald was poo poo, glad he gets cut from every Berserk adaptation.
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Apr 13, 2014 15:44
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When did Luca become best girl in Berserk?
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Apr 13, 2014 16:20
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Zackarotto posted:Anti-Berserk?? The characters you like are relatively boring. Nina, that other prostitute, was interesting because while she was (quite rationally) terrified of everything happening around her and this informed her decisions, but even still she attempted to do the right thing every now and again. When I read through this stuff in my early teens I didn't like her, because she was a coward and betrayed Casca quickly, but the fact that torturers even started to get to work on her fingernail before she ratted out a more-or-less complete stranger that was a burden on her lifestyle shows that she's probably worth more than you or I would've been in that situation. I like Nina. I dislike the storyline where the little poo poo causes all the problems for the heroine Luca to solve. I can relate to Nina's anxiety but the resolution for those characters was completely optimistic with no sacrifice or growth. Nina is slightly more hopeful (gently caress hope this is Berserk) and Luca is canonized. Luca, Casca, and Farnese are little Guts. But Luca is least interesting of them. Casca had internal conflict, Farnese has developed before our eyes. But Luca comes as a boss at the start and deals with external conflict ie everyone else's problem. Her struggle is all the puny people around her. (Edit: sorta like black swordsman Guts numerous speeches when he was edgy as gently caress) Miura has done a good job of showing conflict and specifically women's thoughts. Luca and traveling band of prostitutes was weak and confuses the themes of the story. temple fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Apr 13, 2014 |
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Apr 13, 2014 16:30
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temple posted:I like Nina. I dislike the storyline where the little poo poo causes all the problems for the heroine Luca to solve. I can relate to Nina's anxiety but the resolution for those characters was completely optimistic with no sacrifice or growth. Nina is slightly more hopeful (gently caress hope this is Berserk) and Luca is canonized. Khagan posted:When did Luca become best girl in Berserk? She always was.
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Apr 13, 2014 16:32
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Rodyle posted:Are you one of those people that want Guts to go through another party wipe and become the Black Swordsman again? Are you one those people who cried at the end of Lost valley chapter when Guts said some corny line about the darkness being his battlefield or whatever poo poo I forgot because my wrists started bleeding spontaneously. temple fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Apr 13, 2014 |
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Apr 13, 2014 16:39
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Farnese got boring after her conversion to magical girl Schierke started magical girls Luca owns pre-rape Casca owns the most All the princesses are boring as hell though
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Apr 13, 2014 17:40
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ANIME AKBAR posted:Uh, that old guy looks nothing like Dhaiva, it's just some random old Kushan dude. hmmmm
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Apr 13, 2014 18:13
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Pre-tragedy Casca was a great character with good depth. I think? It's been so long now I only remember how I felt about her and not any specific reasons.
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Apr 13, 2014 19:01
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Puck is the best character.Chinaman7000 posted:Pre-tragedy Casca was a great character with good depth. I think? It's been so long now I only remember how I felt about her and not any specific reasons. I think Casca is the first time I've seen the "strong female warrior suddenly becomes helpless and needs male MC's help" trope play out and the author actually giving it a reason that seems reasonable. So that's appreciated. She was also fun and had personality, so at least I would consider her a great character with good depth.
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Apr 13, 2014 19:45
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Macheath posted:hmmmm Like I said, nothing alike. In a manga with as much visual details as Berserk, it's absurd to mix people up like that.
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Apr 13, 2014 21:26
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Is the sky looking all hosed up because Ganishka became a giant tree and then got owned?
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Apr 14, 2014 00:05
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Hand of the King posted:Is the sky looking all hosed up because Ganishka became a giant tree and then got owned? There's a world tree in Falconia now from his remains, yeah. It's where the new city + castle came from as well. Good chapter, though I'm getting slightly tired with the whole "Guys, everything is so great under the Falcon! But it's also weird!" chapters, since Miura has done a good eight to ten chapters devoted to that angle now. We get it, life under Griffith is great so he can basically get off to his own power fantasy, it's also his problem everything is going to poo poo, yes yes. Let him meet Rickert and let's get back to Guts already.
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Apr 14, 2014 00:27
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I half expect when the manga gets back to Guts, it's going to be him waking up in a room, walks downstairs and then someone goes "Gee Guts you finally woke up we've been on Elf Island for months now! It feels like it's been so long."
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Apr 14, 2014 00:31
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Yeah seeing all this stuff is a little tiresome. Like, it's still really new and big to most of the random no-name inhabitants of the Berserk world, but the audience has known this poo poo was around for a looooong time. Also I'm still diggin' all the seraphim motifs and statues that are everywhere in Griffith's city.
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Apr 14, 2014 00:34
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I look forward to Rickert's encounter with Griffith, because I honestly have no idea how it will go and what he'll do/say.
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Apr 14, 2014 01:14
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Ytlaya posted:I look forward to Rickert's encounter with Griffith, because I honestly have no idea how it will go and what he'll do/say. Yeah, who knows. He met Griffith post rebirth already, and Griffith already made the offer that he could join him if he wanted. Guts commented that Rickert could never truly hate Griffith, so maybe he will actually join him? Also, after reading some older chapters, I think the issue with dwelling on this stuff is less that actual chapter count and more the chapter frequency again. I just wish Miura would back away from doing GOTTA DRAW A BILLION BUILDINGS / PEOPLE AT ONCE stuff. It's gorgeous but he's much more prolific when it's just the gang interacting and Guts fightin dudes.
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Apr 14, 2014 02:05
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Well, it's been drat near 10 years since Miura kept any sort of schedule so I wouldn't expect that to change any time soon.
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Apr 14, 2014 02:24
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Zorak posted:Also, after reading some older chapters, I think the issue with dwelling on this stuff is less that actual chapter count and more the chapter frequency again. I just wish Miura would back away from doing GOTTA DRAW A BILLION BUILDINGS / PEOPLE AT ONCE stuff. It's gorgeous but he's much more prolific when it's just the gang interacting and Guts fightin dudes. Well, that's what you like about reading the series, but is that what Miura likes about creating the series? I've had the idea for a while now that Miura is far more invested in expanding what he can do artistically than what he can do linguistically. Yeah, the writing is pretty good, but you can tell just from looking at any given two page spread that he's put a lot more time and energy into his art than anything else. I like the more subdued moments where the characters can just talk with each other more, myself, but it's clear he's more interested in the art and I can't expect him to ignore what he wants so he can make more of what I want.
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Apr 14, 2014 02:50
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SatansBestBuddy posted:Well, that's what you like about reading the series, but is that what Miura likes about creating the series? The thing is, he's never done anything that actually moves away from what feels natural to the narrative ultimately, really. He's dwelling on this moments and it seems frustrating as a long time reader, but do they actually matter in the narrative? Yes, actually. He could get away with finding whatever excuse to draw absurd things, but he's relatively restrained in the sense that while we've been waiting to get to Elfheim for loving ever, it's less to do with the internal pacing and more the release schedule. These scenes naturally lend themselves to the absurd style, and it doesn't really feel like he's making up excuses to move to them. On a lark I just re-read through the post-Rebirth stuff through Guts getting the Berserker armor, and you really do get a feeling that even if Miura burns himself out on this quite a lot, he does know how to write the drat thing awfully well. The overall cohesion is a lot of why I like it, really.
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Apr 14, 2014 03:28
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Nelson Mandingo posted:I half expect when the manga gets back to Guts, it's going to be him waking up in a room, walks downstairs and then someone goes "Gee Guts you finally woke up we've just left Elf Island! It feels like it's been so long." Fixed that for you.
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Apr 14, 2014 03:42
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Holy poo poo Miura! You don't need to draw every freaking cobblestone in the city and all the tiles on every roof. Seriously man, that's gotta be bad for your health.
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Apr 14, 2014 03:46
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trucutru posted:Holy poo poo Miura! You don't need to draw every freaking cobblestone in the city and all the tiles on every roof. Seriously man, that's gotta be bad for your health. He's probably gonna design the urn for his own ashes, down to every little knob and dip on the surface.
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Apr 14, 2014 04:13
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Zorak posted:he does know how to write the drat thing awfully well. The overall cohesion is a lot of why I like it, really. Only sort of related, but one of the big things I've always appreciated about Berserk is that Miura is both an exceptional artist and cartoonist. He'll draw these immense vistas while making sure the panel layout flows. He'll shade the poo poo out of Isidro's collarbone and then define his face with a fairly economical handful of lines. Miura might not quite be on, say, Naoki Urasawa's level of graphical novellery, but he's also twice the classical artist most mangaka could ever hope to be.
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Apr 14, 2014 04:13
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I love the detail in the quiet parts but I kind of dislike it when it's hordes of monsters. I like the imposing singular monsters. The seas of tentacles and mouths just lose their impact after a while.
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Apr 14, 2014 04:16
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In some respects I think the style's actually suffered as the technical aspects improve. I miss the old Berserk panels where you'd have huge swathes of solid color and super-detailed panels were used economically to introduce new locations, not absolutely everywhere to the point where you almost get tired of looking at them.
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Apr 14, 2014 04:34
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Yeah, chapters that are half mega detailed 2 page spreads are kinda wearing on me because nothing happens in them and they have to be taking forever to make.
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Apr 14, 2014 04:41
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Chinaman7000 posted:I love the detail in the quiet parts but I kind of dislike it when it's hordes of monsters. I like the imposing singular monsters. The seas of tentacles and mouths just lose their impact after a while. After the Golden Age arc, honestly I've never been a fan of those gigantic monster drawings. Occasionally I feel like those things only make the panel/page looks cluttered.
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Apr 14, 2014 04:54
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I really try not to think about things like "what could the artist have been doing instead of this" when I read things. Take the thing that is made on its own terms.
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Apr 14, 2014 05:09
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As much as I'd like to read all the Berserk chapters RIGHT THE gently caress NOW WHY AREN'T YOU DRAWING FASTER UUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHH, I don't mind too much how long Muira is taking. He's proven time and time again that he is SUPER careful in plotting this story - nothing feels rushed, everything fits. It's one of the best paced mangas I've ever seen, and that's one hell of an accomplishment in a publication spread apart like this. The detail that goes into the story only makes it more impressive: no character is really forgotten (even the Kushan wizard returned! Yes, I'm pretty sure it's him), there are countless background story details being picked up (the ruins of the ancient city becoming Falconia), and of course, there's the literal details going into the drawings. Sure it's frustrating, but really, would it fit if the gang had arrived at Elf Island immediately? The various shenanigans Griffith gets up to should be told with all the gravitas and spectacle they deserve, since they depict THE most world-changing event of the story. We even got a Guts-Kills-The-Monster-Of-The-Week arc to break things up. If I were to read the completed manga in one go, I wouldn't feel any impatience regarding Elf Island at all. In short: I have zero problems waiting for quality, and Berserk delivers. And it's not like Muira is showing any signs of keeling over anytime soon 
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Apr 14, 2014 10:01
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Torquemadras posted:In short: I have zero problems waiting for quality, and Berserk delivers. And it's not like Muira is showing any signs of keeling over anytime soon Hey buddy have you ever heard of tempting fate?
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Apr 14, 2014 11:26
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Hey buddy have you ever heard of tempting fate? I'm a Song of Ice and Fire reader. What do you think?
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Apr 14, 2014 12:48
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Torquemadras posted:I'm a Song of Ice and Fire reader. Wait, did GRRM die over the weekend or something? Last I knew he was busy with the new season. Also Berserk is better than ASoFaI, if only because most of the political bullshit of the early chapters was solved in a single night. If Griffith was in Game of Thrones he'd be king by the fourth season and that's probably an understatement.
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Apr 14, 2014 16:36
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Something else I thought I'd share from my reread. On warmth: Chapter 237:  Chapter 331:  Guts experiences the early signs of losing his humanity and becoming a scary skeleton man:  And finally, way back in Chapter 37, on leaving the Band of the  praise the sun
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Apr 14, 2014 18:34
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Zackarotto posted:And finally, way back in Chapter 37, on leaving the Band of the One thing I realized upon re-reading that I had remembered incorrectly is that I had thought Griffith was always pretty detached from/impersonal with the rest of the Band of the Hawk(/Falcon), but he actually seems to form some meaningful bonds with them (like in the bottom right of that picture for example) and seems to legitimately struggle with the decision to sacrifice them all. Doesn't change the fact that he ended up doing so, of course, but he wasn't always super aloof.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:26
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Ytlaya posted:One thing I realized upon re-reading that I had remembered incorrectly is that I had thought Griffith was always pretty detached from/impersonal with the rest of the Band of the Hawk(/Falcon), but he actually seems to form some meaningful bonds with them (like in the bottom right of that picture for example) and seems to legitimately struggle with the decision to sacrifice them all. Doesn't change the fact that he ended up doing so, of course, but he wasn't always super aloof. Well, Grif's fall from grace happened because of his lack of detachment with Guts.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:27
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SatansBestBuddy posted:Wait, did GRRM die over the weekend or something? Last I knew he was busy with the new season. Nah, dude's still alive. And I'm not gonna compare the two series, no reason to. It's just another series plagued by loooooong waits between installments. I mean, have you seen the thread over in the Book Barn? Those people have been driven insane by the wait. Literally insane. I don't want to know what some Berserk fans have turned into...
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Apr 14, 2014 19:34
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Ytlaya posted:One thing I realized upon re-reading that I had remembered incorrectly is that I had thought Griffith was always pretty detached from/impersonal with the rest of the Band of the Hawk(/Falcon), but he actually seems to form some meaningful bonds with them (like in the bottom right of that picture for example) and seems to legitimately struggle with the decision to sacrifice them all. Doesn't change the fact that he ended up doing so, of course, but he wasn't always super aloof. I think the months (years?) he spent in isolation and torture have a lot to do with his attitude at the eclipse.
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Apr 14, 2014 20:12
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notZaar posted:I think the months (years?) he spent in isolation and torture have a lot to do with his attitude at the eclipse. Absolutely. While what he did is wrong, he had experienced some awful things both physically and mentally.
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Apr 14, 2014 20:15
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Ytlaya posted:Absolutely. While what he did is wrong, he had experienced some awful things both physically and mentally.
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Apr 14, 2014 21:57
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