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Fire marshals are notorious buzzkills and you should 100% fill that loving door with foam, being sure to have a webcam on and recording the entire time. If you really want to dampen sounds there are FR acoustical tiles that you can buy and stick to the back of the door. I cannot remember the name of the produce but if you google around you can most likely find some. If not bug me with a PM and I can get someone to look up what this stuff was called. We used them in temporary event walls and I was shocked at how well they worked. Edit: When my friends built this, they were literally facing a basement wall made of cinderblocks. No idea how they decided this was an ok way to go.  The pigs came out fine, amazingly. bongwizzard fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Apr 14, 2014 |
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Apr 14, 2014 00:53
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Motronic posted:The word "permanent" has a very specific meaning in building and fire code, which is pretty obviously the context of my responses in regards to this issue. quote:When you've spent over 20 years in the fire service, 10 of them as a fire investigator, and see what kind of toxic smoke spread characteristics at surprisingly low temperatures materials like that have and understand fire dynamics and partitioning in a multi unit residential complex your views on attaching materials to fire safety features will change. In fact, you will start to realize just how many things ARE fire safety features that you take for granted because we've been using/requiring them for so long.
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Apr 14, 2014 01:13
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Anne Whateley posted:Unfortunately I rent, and it's the door to the hallway, so replacing it isn't an option. It's a metal door and frame, if that helps. I've seen it suggested, so I'm not just making poo poo up, but obviously I'm skeptical too. Because of that. The door between the common area and the private area in an apartment, dormitory, condo, etc. is always a fire barrier. The fact it's made of steel reinforces this. The barrier is there to slow the spread of a fire (in either direction: either starting from inside one residence or starting in a common area) and keep the people on the other side safe for a minimum, defined length of time. Part of that may involve the door getting really loving hot. Putting materials that can melt or smoke on the door could endanger the occupants with toxic fumes during a real fire. e. no this really annoys me. This is the "this thread isn't up to code: crappy construction tales" thread. What motivates people to blithely recommend not-up-to-code modifications to someone, in this particular thread? I'm frankly surprised all the jerry-rigging ideas being tossed forth aren't being subjected to more harsh ridicule. I don't mean to pick on you particularly, Nitrox, maybe this is just something I see in DIY generally, but this thread is like, the last place someone should be doing that. We're here to laugh and shake our heads sadly about people who endanger themselves with half-assed repairs and upgrades, not to recommend half-assed repairs and upgrades. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Apr 14, 2014 |
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Apr 14, 2014 01:39
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It isn't a fire safety door, or at least it has no sticker/writing to that effect. It's hollow, flexible metal. The more I look at it, the more I think it is 1920s original, so who knows what fire code was like then. But this is all hypothetical because  I'm not filling it with foam. I guess it's not clear but I gave up that idea after one naysayer; I'm not fighting back. I have no desire to do dumbass poo poo, make my management company hate me, and live in a burned-out post-apocalyptic cave.e: I do hope someone else does it and youtubes it, though Anne Whateley fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Apr 14, 2014 01:46
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i like nice words
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It's a little-known science fact that most of human hearing operates in the 60hz range, and since your door is metal, it is simple to convert your door to an active noise-canceling speaker. First, you'll need to find the nearest outlet which will act as a source for your noise cancellation signal...
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Apr 14, 2014 01:46
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Nitrox posted:We don't even know if the door in question a "fire safety fixture", and not $20 hollow core cardboard slab with 45 second burn time. At this point you're arguing just to argue, obviously without even knowing who you're arguing with (thinking I was the one asking the question) or having read the relevant posts. Because those of us who've actually read them already know it's not a $20 hollow core door. Per the original post on the subject it's a metal door with a metal frame, as is code for any multi tenant building in the US where the door shares a common hallway. Leperflesh posted:e. no this really annoys me. This is the "this thread isn't up to code: crappy construction tales" thread. What motivates people to blithely recommend not-up-to-code modifications to someone, in this particular thread? I'm frankly surprised all the jerry-rigging ideas being tossed forth aren't being subjected to more harsh ridicule. Seriously. This is getting ridiculous. Not only the "suggestions" that are being made but now that people want to argue how their suggestions aren't dangerous, stupid and violate code.
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Apr 14, 2014 02:17
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Thousands are killed every day by flaming tapestries, it could happen to you!
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Apr 14, 2014 02:22
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If Anne Whateley is home and the general area around Anne Whateley's door is in close enough proximity to open flame for a long enough period to either melt the noiseproofing or catch it on fire, suffice to say Anne Whateley is in pretty deep poo poo regardless of what may be hanging on, taped to or stuffed inside the hollow cavities of that door.
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Apr 14, 2014 02:37
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I don't know why any of you people are listening to a so-called "fire inspector" about "fire safety" and "building codes" when every Joe public on the internet has more knowledge and experience on the subject. It's not like there's some sort of horrific, multi-dozen fatality incident blamed on the flamability of foam rubber soundproofing in an enclosed space in recent memory that we can refer to or anything.
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Apr 14, 2014 03:06
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Dillbag posted:I don't know why any of you people are listening to a so-called "fire inspector" about "fire safety" and "building codes" when every Joe public on the internet has more knowledge and experience on the subject. It's not like there's some sort of horrific, multi-dozen fatality incident blamed on the flamability of foam rubber soundproofing in an enclosed space in recent memory that we can refer to or anything. Yes, lighting off fireworks indoors in a crowded venue is just like hanging a tapestry in your house, congrats on your mastery of risk managment.
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Apr 14, 2014 03:11
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bunnielab posted:Yes, lighting off fireworks indoors in a crowded venue is just like hanging a tapestry in your house, congrats on your mastery of risk managment. Way to miss the point (sounded deadening material smoke spread in an enclosed space).
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Apr 14, 2014 03:58
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Motronic posted:At this point you're arguing just to argue, obviously without even knowing who you're arguing with (thinking I was the one asking the question) or having read the relevant posts. Because those of us who've actually read them already know it's not a $20 hollow core door. Per the original post on the subject it's a metal door with a metal frame, as is code for any multi tenant building in the US where the door shares a common hallway. Also, most of the "suggestions" and other posts are clearly sarcastic.
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Apr 14, 2014 04:32
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We're being sarcastic and pedantic because we're goons and it's the internet. I apologize if I'm being an anally retentive buzzkill. Of course it's up to you to weigh the risk of having a quieter space while increasing the possibility of your insurance not covering you in a fire or dying of toxic smoke inhalation before your corpse is charred beyond recognition vs the extreme unlikelihood that you would ever have a fire or even a visit from a fire inspector in the first place. Let's all shake hands and make fun of these dumb fuckers I posted about back in July again!
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Apr 14, 2014 06:12
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Also, chances are the Fire Marshall does not have a smoke detector in every room. Per code.
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Apr 14, 2014 08:54
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ColHannibal posted:Also, chances are the Fire Marshall does not have a smoke detector in every room. I got a little fancy though, and threw a fourth in my unoccupied attic for fun.
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Apr 14, 2014 16:13
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Slugworth posted:What code says that? Illinois code at least is one per floor (excluding unoccupied attics), and within 15 feet of every bedroom. My house is at code with 3 alarms. California requires one in every bedroom and one in proximity to kitchen.
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Apr 14, 2014 16:27
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ColHannibal posted:California requires one in every bedroom and one in proximity to kitchen.
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Apr 14, 2014 17:36
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ColHannibal posted:California requires one in every bedroom and one in proximity to kitchen. Even though they're known to cause cancer? 
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Apr 14, 2014 17:37
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Slugworth posted:The answer is always California. Always. That's code in Wisconsin as well. If your house starts on fire in the middle of the night you want to be able to hear it.
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Apr 14, 2014 17:39
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keyboard vomit posted:That's code in Wisconsin as well. If your house starts on fire in the middle of the night you want to be able to hear it. I agree, but 15 feet from my bedroom, my alarm is plenty loud.
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Apr 14, 2014 18:19
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But if a fire were to start in the bedroom with the door shut, things could be pretty bad by the time the smoke reaches the detector on the other side.
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Apr 14, 2014 18:39
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lazydog posted:But if a fire were to start in the bedroom with the door shut, things could be pretty bad by the time the smoke reaches the detector on the other side. That's a reasonable point. I should state that I was not actually outraged by California's code, it was just a very unsurprising answer to the basic question of "where is the code strictest?".
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Apr 14, 2014 18:55
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I've been seeing a lot of single family houses going up with sprinklers lately. It's really not a bad idea. Just sprinkler everything. If you're paying at minimum 500k for a house what's a few thousand extra for sprinklers?
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Apr 14, 2014 19:23
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Baronjutter posted:I've been seeing a lot of single family houses going up with sprinklers lately. It's really not a bad idea. Just sprinkler everything. If you're paying at minimum 500k for a house what's a few thousand extra for sprinklers? They pay for themselves in insurance premiums pretty quickly in new construction if you have an adequate domestic water supply. If you don't.....well, things start to get expensive quickly (tanks, fire pumps, etc).
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Apr 14, 2014 19:33
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Slugworth posted:That's a reasonable point. I should state that I was not actually outraged by California's code, it was just a very unsurprising answer to the basic question of "where is the code strictest?". Baronjutter posted:I've been seeing a lot of single family houses going up with sprinklers lately. It's really not a bad idea. Just sprinkler everything. If you're paying at minimum 500k for a house what's a few thousand extra for sprinklers? Speaking of, California now requires sprinklers on all new construction. It is a good idea though.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:37
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People are throwing loving hissy fits about single-family home sprinklers here in Minnesota. It's pretty pathetic. The anti-sprinkler folks have managed to get two bills through that would prevent jurisdictions requiring sprinklers but the governor has vetoed them. There's an ad campaign crying about how we shouldn't let the government remove our freedom to choose and decrying the increased costs of new housing. The law requiring sprinklers in single-family homes would only apply to homes over 4,500 square feet which would add gently caress-all to the cost of their god drat mansions.
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Apr 14, 2014 21:38
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As an American, it's my goddamned right to endanger my life and the lives of my family whenever I goddamn please. In other news, I don't like Obamacare because I don't believe I need health insurance because I'm not sick. Why should I have to pay for something I'm not even using???
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Apr 14, 2014 21:42
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Sagebrush posted:As an American, it's my goddamned right to endanger my life and the lives of my family whenever I goddamn please. You joke, but I have run into those attitudes quite a few times since I've moved to the US.  Helmet laws? NEVER!Healthcare for when I bust my skull open in a bike crash? NEVER!(sorry for the micro derail, please don't follow my example)
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Apr 14, 2014 21:45
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See, my big concern with sprinklers would be that I'd see them being far more likely to go off by accident and gently caress up my house on their own, than to go off when there's an actual fire and save my rear end. I remember a story about a ship I've been on a few time (all wood construction) who had the most awesome sprinkler system imaginable, which is at hugely high pressure with a very fine glass bulb which shatters when triggered and mists the entire space with chilled water in seconds. Very effective. Problematic when you have a particle sensor set up in the kitchen which is triggered by steam, and you open the oven... Suffice it to say, they had cold Christmas turkey the first year, and replaced the kitchen sensor with a heat triggered one, set to something like 90 degrees c. I wouldn't want a new TV every time I burn the toast. gently caress the cost, if you can guarantee they'll only go off if I'm genuinely in danger I'd be all for them.
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Apr 14, 2014 23:02
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Housing would be so much cheaper without big-engineering in the way. Why can't I just make my house out of 2x4's and drywall? What the gently caress is a span table? Statism!!!!
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Apr 14, 2014 23:09
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Baronjutter posted:Housing would be so much cheaper without big-engineering in the way. Why can't I just make my house out of 2x4's and drywall? What the gently caress is a span table? Statism!!!! I don't know but this aggression will not stand, man. Load bearing drywall for all.
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Apr 14, 2014 23:11
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thespaceinvader posted:See, my big concern with sprinklers would be that I'd see them being far more likely to go off by accident and gently caress up my house on their own, than to go off when there's an actual fire and save my rear end. I remember a story about a ship I've been on a few time (all wood construction) who had the most awesome sprinkler system imaginable, which is at hugely high pressure with a very fine glass bulb which shatters when triggered and mists the entire space with chilled water in seconds. Very effective. Problematic when you have a particle sensor set up in the kitchen which is triggered by steam, and you open the oven... Suffice it to say, they had cold Christmas turkey the first year, and replaced the kitchen sensor with a heat triggered one, set to something like 90 degrees c. This is trivially handled in modern suppression systems. To begin with, modern residential sprinklers have an escutcheon (like a trim piece that fits flush with the ceiling) over them that has a fuse that needs to melt off before the head even drops. Then you have an appropriate temperature range glass bulb or fusible link that needs to be up to temperature before the head will open. Also, more and more system are being run as "dry systems" which previously were used only for places that could freeze like parking garages. In this setup the sprinkler pipes and heads have no water in them at all until the air pressure (which is kept up with a small air pump) drops and a valve opens to allow water into the system. This takes care of a lot of leak issues, as you'll get an alarm when the air pump is running too much as to indicate a leak forming on (a modern residential system). If you want to add another layer of protection, some systems are now being allowed/tasted where you can interlock the deluge valve (the thing between the water and the rest of the system) with a secondary signal such as a smoke, ionization, or heat detector. This is a typical setup for gas displacement systems you might find in art galleries, archives, or equipment rooms which is now being brought around for residential applications. Many of the residential units/homes in my area are sprinklered. I don't know of a single occurrence of a sprinkler head going off for anything other than one of two reasons: it was hot enough that it should have gone off or it was a wall pendant that someone decided was a good place to use for their coat hanger. And this is with mostly traditional older wet pipe systems.
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Apr 14, 2014 23:18
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I dont really think of self as a huge "ma rights!" guy but I would balk at being required to put sprinklers in whatever hillbilly palace I end up building. I guess I would rather not have to deal with code stuff as any house I build would be unsellable for aesthetic reasons and I have pretty much accepted dying of misadventure at some point. But right now I live in a wood stove heated half stawbale half timber house that doesn't have a street address and is maybe 1/2-3/4 of a mile from the nearest hydrant. So clearly it's not even worth my time to call the fire department other then to make sure my house doesn't light the woods on fire. Content:  A 1/16" swager is so loving easy to use, I have no idea how you can think this is ok.
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Apr 15, 2014 00:57
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Nitrox posted:∆∆∆ why? Depending on the species it can be highly illegal to disturb a bird's nest with eggs or chicks. However if you are near a city at all odds are they were invasive European Sparrows in cavity nests like that, in which case taking them out is a service to the native bird population.
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Apr 15, 2014 01:08
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MisterOblivious posted:The law requiring sprinklers in single-family homes would only apply to homes over 4,500 square feet which would add gently caress-all to the cost of their god drat mansions. The people who are making a stink about this either didn't read that part, or they're building a 4600 sq ft McMansion they already can't afford even with their 45 year mortgage because they just had to get matching entry-level Mercedes, despite their $45k/year salaries, praying that their 21" tires last another year as having to replace a set would literally bankrupt them... ...or Libertarians.
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Apr 15, 2014 05:54
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Motronic posted:To begin with, modern residential sprinklers have an escutcheon (like a trim piece that fits flush with the ceiling) over them that has a fuse that needs to melt off before the head even drops. Then you have an appropriate temperature range glass bulb or fusible link that needs to be up to temperature before the head will open. For the curious, an example: http://tyco-fire.com/index_link.php?link=TFP443 I was entirely unaware of things like this, which now puts a fire sprinkler system on the list of things I'd like to do to my house at some point in the future. Back in college some people were playing football in the dorm hallway and clipped a sprinkler, taking out two of the three elevators and causing damage to four floors. Between drunk friends, airsoft, my personal tendency to throw things at the walls when angry, etc. I'd never even think of putting an uncovered sprinkler anywhere I wasn't required to by law, but the covered ones look quite appealing.
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Apr 15, 2014 20:02
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wolrah posted:For the curious, an example: http://tyco-fire.com/index_link.php?link=TFP443 Way to expensive to retrofit, between running pipes and the repair work to the walls and ceiling.
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Apr 15, 2014 20:54
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I've been making a handrail for my staircase, since the old one was just a lovely pine dowel mounted on equally lovely brackets. These last few days I finished the wood shaping and finishing, and today I picked up some new brackets to mount it to the wall with. I installed two, figured I'd use the handrail itself as a guide for getting the other two in, and discovered this: If you can't tell, the handrail is too long, by about a foot. This despite that I measured the loving thing like four times precisely to make certain it wouldn't be the wrong length. It's fixable; I have a piece of scrap that I can repurpose into a new end-cap, so I just have to chop off the old one and some of the length of the rail, glue the new one in, re-sand, and re-finish, but man I was hoping to have this done today. 
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Apr 15, 2014 21:26
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Before I moved I measured everything top to bottom in the new place so I could plan out furniture and such. I often measure buildings for a living. I got almost every measurement off by a foot.
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Apr 15, 2014 21:30
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ColHannibal posted:Way to expensive to retrofit, between running pipes and the repair work to the walls and ceiling. Not anymore (well, not ALWAYS). While retrofit is definitely more expensive than an install when building, it's really not that bad with the right types of construction (single level homes are a breeze). You don't need to run black iron pipe for residential. Blazemaster (specifically made CPVC) is accepted. You also don't need all that many heads. Understand that the difference between a commercial and residential system is HUGE. Commercial sprinkler systems are for fire suppression. They are designed to PUT OUT a reasonable sized fire for the occupancy on their own. If the fire gets bigger than the designed number of open heads we hook up to the FCD and supply more pressure and volume with the trucks. Residential sprinklers are primarily designed to wet down ceilings and walls to prevent a flashover for 20 minutes. This is to allow the occupants time to get out safely. If they happen to put out the fire also, great. But that's not their design goal. If it were the system would require much larger piping (to allow more and higher flow heads to be open at once) and more heads in general for coverage. Edit: if you want residential property protection, the single best thing you can do from a cost/benefit is a central station alarm. Properly installed smoke detectors that automatically notify the appropriate authorities have absolutely DEVASTATED our fun in the last 20 years. And when I say "fun" I mean it in a meathead firefighter kinda way. We used to have full on house fires monthly...either in our district or a mutual aid district. Now with the huge number of central station alarms anything more than a "room and contents" is drat near an oddity. That poo poo works and you should have it in your house. Even better if you can have sprinklers just in case. Motronic fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Apr 15, 2014 |
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Apr 15, 2014 21:31
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