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Obama really embodies that whole "campaign from the left, govern from the right" thing, doesn't he.
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Apr 14, 2014 18:38
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:Ronald Reagan made the herding district fees required in western open range country permanent, and he did it by executive order. No one in the western states get to graze on open range land without paying their fees. It's a fact of life out in the western states if you farm or ranch you are going to pay herding district fees and water district fees. But people getting their news from the right wing noise machine don't know that. Just read this blog post by Dana Loesch. It's completely about the turtle vs. the patriot; that and a diabolical plot by Harry Reid to steal land from a hard working patriot. No mention of federal court orders at all and only a retort to the deadbeat not paying fees for two decades at the very end. This is a wonderful example of how the rabid right is immersed in its own reality.
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Apr 14, 2014 18:40
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Obama really embodies that whole "campaign from the left, govern from the right" thing, doesn't he.
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Apr 14, 2014 18:42
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ufarn posted:It's what happens, when you're born in a place called Hope. Sounds foreign, where's the birth certificate Obama!?
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Apr 14, 2014 18:47
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PerniciousKnid posted:Is there anyway we can work distribute some of this kind of stuff (I guess not the database) ourselves? I mean, it seems like a pathing algorithm could be useful even to folks like local state rep democrats who don't have the IT savvy to pull it together themselves. I'm a web developer. I'd be happy to help.
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Apr 14, 2014 18:53
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Pope Guilty posted:How the gently caress does this even happen? Where's the national Dems in this? Is there just not enough money? Basing this solely off my own anecdotal experience in 6 years of political and community activism, it is a result of the fact that these things are overwhelmingly volunteer based. Background, since 2008 I've worked Dem campaigns every cycle, was heavily involved in helping returning vets, volunteered with helping troubled LBGT students (with a focus on T because that group was the most strapped for resources, mainly office work), my martial arts group taught self defense groups for women, and I did construction work with habitat for humanity and repairs at the women's shelter. Let me preface it that yes, I know the stuff activists put up with is not anywhere as close to what a lot of people these causes are about go through. But I'm coming at it from the volunteers perspective because that's who we are talking about. Activism, both community and political, is very much volunteer based. So firstly you never have the level of manpower you want. Then the people come in not professionally trained in things. So they don't know how to do things, or don't know that certain things have to be done, and if they do learn what to do they rarely write it all down to preserve institutional knowledge (that last one is a problem in professional organizations as well). Then the people doing it can get moved to a different job in the group, or the rest of their life means they can't commit as much, or more often they just get burnt out and what they learned leaves with them. The burn out seems to be the most common. The dirty little secret of activism is that it really sucks. You spend a lot of it reaching out to people to get them involved, win them over, or get a donation, and that usually gets a rejection. No after no after no is hard to take. The work tends to be very manual and rote because resources are tight and you can't afford the great new tools to make it easier. Your organization is effectively opposed by other organizations nominally on your side, because you end up chasing the same donations and grants. Your organization is usually actively opposed by other organizations on some level, so you lose some of your battles, which always hurts. The opposition can be frustratingly terrible too (eg after a trans student hurt themselves due to being harassed we went around and put up listings to contact our group for support, the suicide hotline, and just positive you are loved messages. They were defaced by the college republicans with messages to get right with god, fix yourself, vote republican, and the web address of the local evangelical church). When you win it can see huge blowback (eg we got more funding from the city for the women's shelter. Due to not being able to afford guards the solution was to have the apartments separate from the main office and have the address unlisted so abusers wouldn't show up. The local libertarian brigade found it and published it so "people will know where their tax dollars were going" endangering them and requiring us to get volunteers to stay in one if the open apartments while we got the police to agree to more frequent drive bys). Even in the process of it you tend not to see the best in people (your politicians can be corrupt. You don't help all the people you want to. People relapse and take others down with them). And there really is no end point to it all (there is always poverty. Another tornado destroys homes. Winning the campaign means you now need to fight to push policy and win the next election as well) You are doing a lot of tedious stuff with a lot of opposition, see a lot of rejection and setbacks, and the problems never really get "solved". Plus since everyone gets frustrated with this you get lots of infighting and faction-ing, particularly when things go bad. It gets to the point where you would rather stay home and grind for bear asses in World of Warcraft than face it again. And when they do that, then the group loses whatever it is you learned and they have to start from scratch, and that makes success even harder so the next group gets burnt out and angry. Again, yes, I know full well the trans people I met at the counseling center had it worse than me. That's why they were contemplating suicide and came to the group for help. As bad as this might make me feel, actually having to go through this poo poo makes them feel worse. But if you have an ounce of empathy in you seeing people driven to that point takes its toll. So you end up doing things in cycles of volunteering and focusing on you, which hurts the organizations but keeps you on an even keel. More money would help. Then you can get more professionals in to help get it done, have more manpower, have better tools, and reduce churn. Less hate in the world would help, but I might as well wish for a unicorn. Less infighting would be a godsend, going online to try and learn or coordinate from others involved can be as draining as dealing with the opposition (and gently caress online "activists", you want to claim that title get off your rear end and put up with this same poo poo we do. The core part is the word "active") And now I spent my lunch hour complaining about pity me the employed straight white American male because activism doesn't always feel good. I am aware of the irony, or whatever the right word is. At least here the "die ________ scum" will be ironic
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Apr 14, 2014 18:53
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PerniciousKnid posted:Is there anyway we can work distribute some of this kind of stuff (I guess not the database) ourselves? I mean, it seems like a pathing algorithm could be useful even to folks like local state rep democrats who don't have the IT savvy to pull it together themselves. People have talked about having a campaign thread before, and it seemed like the sharing would be useful but the blowback from talking campaign gossip would limit how much people would contribute. If you wanted to start it I'd post stuff and link it in the op though
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Apr 14, 2014 18:57
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Fried Chicken posted:Basing this solely off my own anecdotal experience in 6 years of political and community activism, it is a result of the fact that these things are overwhelmingly volunteer based. Background, since 2008 I've worked Dem campaigns every cycle, was heavily involved in helping returning vets, volunteered with helping troubled LBGT students (with a focus on T because that group was the most strapped for resources, mainly office work), my martial arts group taught self defense groups for women, and I did construction work with habitat for humanity and repairs at the women's shelter. Let me preface it that yes, I know the stuff activists put up with is not anywhere as close to what a lot of people these causes are about go through. But I'm coming at it from the volunteers perspective because that's who we are talking about.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:01
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Nessus posted:I don't think you're coming off as particularly entitled really, this was a great look at what it is like to do a lot of this stuff. Also holy poo poo those campus Republicans/'libertarians' are loving devils, Jesus. I was a prominent member of a libertarian/"conservative" group in college and the terribleness was overwhelming. I was just plain disgusted by the intellectual emptiness of that "side", and it has since informed my politics on almost every single issue. When your 'platform' revolves around "OK today we're going to urge those in pain to kill themselves"...well, I still want to go back in time and take a baseball bat to every one of my supposed friends' knees. They were disgusting people.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:14
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Nessus posted:I don't think you're coming off as particularly entitled really, this was a great look at what it is like to do a lot of this stuff. Also holy poo poo those campus Republicans/'libertarians' are loving devils, Jesus. In fairness, the libertarians was more a case of them not thinking it through to the consequences, their leaders apologized profusely and helped us set up for the cops to patrol more. As for the college republicans, 90% of them are decent enough, there for the networking and advancement. The problem is that 10% of them that are us vs them fanatics, which were the ones who did that, and it disgusted the 90% I spoke to as well. Unfortunately the fanatic brigade were the ones in charge of the group, because the thing about fanatics is they are committed.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:22
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anonumos posted:I was a prominent member of a libertarian/"conservative" group in college and the terribleness was overwhelming. I was just plain disgusted by the intellectual emptiness of that "side", and it has since informed my politics on almost every single issue. When your 'platform' revolves around "OK today we're going to urge those in pain to kill themselves"...well, I still want to go back in time and take a baseball bat to every one of my supposed friends' knees. They were disgusting people.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:22
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I remember during freshman year at uni, the Young Americans for Liberty chapter was trying to get people to register Republican to vote for Ron Paul in the primary, saying that could throw the primary to him for the R OLUTION.Not only are they malicious, they're outright delusional too.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:23
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Fried Chicken posted:In fairness, the libertarians was more a case of them not thinking it through to the consequences. Really? What a surprise.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:29
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Nessus posted:And here I thought conservatives were against euthanasia! Only people performing it on others. If you want to die you had better do it yourself as God intended. So that you can be sent to hell for doing as God intended.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:32
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Defenestration posted:The NYT is adding a new angle to their "pissing on millennials" rotation: kids these days aren't using Obama as a political role model enough; they lack the ambition to run for office thanks to Twitter. Why won't the kids of today get excited about Harry Reid? They'd rather do "community service" whatever that is. Don't they realize that when Barack said "get into community service" he meant "show up at astroturfed events"?
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Apr 14, 2014 19:39
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brb going to eschew a "high-paying consultant job" to haul bags for team obama
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Was reading this buzzfeed article about the guy who shot up the Jewish community centers in Missouri. The article links to this post describing his interaction with the students. Awful awful post. Here is the thread where his forum mates realize that he is the one who killed those people. They are pissed because two of the victims were Methodist. edit: Sorry to the dude below! The forum posts are totally  and are on a white power forum.
Paper With Lines fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Apr 14, 2014 |
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Apr 14, 2014 19:40
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Paper With Lines posted:Was reading this buzzfeed article about the guy who shot up the Jewish community centers in Missouri.The article links to this post describing his interaction with the students. Awful awful post. Here is the thread where his forum mates realize that he is the one who killed those people. Disgusting. Shouldn't have clicked that. Put some NWS tags on that if you'd please.  Edit: Thanks for that. Spiffster fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Apr 14, 2014 |
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Apr 14, 2014 19:42
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Paper With Lines posted:Was reading this buzzfeed article about the guy who shot up the Jewish community centers in Missouri. The article links to this post describing his interaction with the students. Awful awful post. Here is the thread where his forum mates realize that he is the one who killed those people. They are pissed because two of the victims were Methodist. Its amazing how the first page is all "Yeah, finally someone putting it to those drat Jews! What a shame he got caught!" Then once they realize it was one of their's they start hemming and hawing and gosh what could have driven him to this this is totally out of character for him
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Apr 14, 2014 19:47
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1stGear posted:Its amazing how the first page is all "Yeah, finally someone putting it to those drat Jews! What a shame he got caught!" Then once they realize it was one of their's they start hemming and hawing and gosh what could have driven him to this this is totally out of character for him I'm amazed you made it that far, I felt sick to my stomach once I got to that one crazy guy's sig talking about how "the Jews are a great danger and it's amazing how the internet covers their tracks  "
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Apr 14, 2014 19:48
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Paper With Lines posted:Was reading this buzzfeed article about the guy who shot up the Jewish community centers in Missouri. The article links to this post describing his interaction with the students. Awful awful post. Here is the thread where his forum mates realize that he is the one who killed those people. They are pissed because two of the victims were Methodist. Haha I love that they had a page or two of 'HAHA YEA SHOOT THE JEWS GOOD ON HIM' going into 'oh no ol Rounder really snapped shooting people isn't good...' for a bit there. Then of course they get right back into 'whooo dead Jews!' Also I enjoyed that apparently they have beef with Stormfront? In the last page or so someone over there implies the shooter was being paid (by...someone...for something?) and there's like five "HEH TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE" so I guess Stormfront is the pussy level of neo nazis to these dudes?
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Apr 14, 2014 19:48
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Fried Chicken posted:And while I'm on this hobby horse what the gently caress is with the Dems losing all the tools between each election cycle? Not the Indiana groups, all if them. We have to reinvent the wheel every 2 years. Case in point, I went walking/lit dropping this weekend and we lost the least time calculator again! In 2008 it was a big deal that OFA had the calculator so you dropped in your walk list and it organized the addresses with a least time pathing algorithm. Instead of them just being in numerical order by street it told you where to go in what order to save time, like what UPS and FedEx use for their drivers. Cut walk time down to a breeze. Then 2010 comes around and no one has it. It took Rep Foster personally coding it and emailing it out to the rest of the caucus, and that didn't happen until October. Then 2012 comes around and the tool is back, as part of VAN!... Behind the $3000 paywall most campaigns can't afford. Now it is 2014 and no one knows where it is AGAIN. That's pretty hosed up. I remember how both 2008 and 2012, the use of databases and software for GOTV and the ground game was supposed to be what gave the Dems a leg up. You would think there would be some central DNC control group tasked with not only keeping this stuff up and running, but also continual improvement.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:53
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:I'm amazed you made it that far, I felt sick to my stomach once I got to that one crazy guy's sig talking about how "the Jews are a great danger and it's amazing how the internet covers their tracks They're a sad bunch of cowards. They're a pathetic lot who know in their hearts what they're espousing is wrong so they run for cover every time one of their ilk actually takes action. Its absurd and hypocritical and deserves to be laughed at.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:54
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Dystram posted:I'm a web developer. I'd be happy to help. If someone started up a ticket system with small projects to help democratic elections around the country, I'd be working on it tonight.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:55
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Just to make sure those are links to a white supremacy forum I probably shouldn't click on at work right?
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Apr 14, 2014 19:55
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I really lost it with the first post outside of the videos. Going on and on about how awesome it is that people are rising up against Jews and killing them is disgusting. 
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Apr 14, 2014 19:56
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zoux posted:Just to make sure those are links to a white supremacy forum I probably shouldn't click on at work right? They're not something you want in your browser history, that's for sure. poo poo is insane.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:56
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zoux posted:Just to make sure those are links to a white supremacy forum I probably shouldn't click on at work right? Not just that but it's a pretty hardcore true believer type too, I don't recommend clicking in general. Like, it's inherently hilarious that these limp dicked nazis can only post online about being happy a bunch of Jews are dead, but it's not like there's anything special to them unless you really wanna see straight up KKK members use the internet.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:58
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"Oh hey that's Rounder. Makes sense, GJ Rounder!" Can you imagine if there were English-language Islamist websites had that level of open incitement? Those people need to be rubbed out.
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Apr 14, 2014 20:03
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Defenestration posted:The NYT is adding a new angle to their "pissing on millennials" rotation: kids these days aren't using Obama as a political role model enough; they lack the ambition to run for office thanks to Twitter. The main decentive to running this time around is that local politics have gotten nasty since 2012. The partisan divide in the township board got ugly very quickly somehow, and the township supervisor just up and resigned out of sheer frustration with the obstructionism going on-- which is why there's an upcoming special election for a two-year term township supervisor in the first place. Essentially, even local politics are particularly ugly right now and few people want to wade into that mess. e: I asked the former supervisor directly for some advice about running, and her words basically boiled down to "Don't do it, wait until 2016 and hope the board members quit". Ofaloaf fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Apr 14, 2014 |
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Apr 14, 2014 20:05
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SedanChair posted:"Oh hey that's Rounder. Makes sense, GJ Rounder!" Too bad when some government group said 'yo as well as the normal groups we shouldn't forget about white power groups and their ilk,' and everyone lost their mind that "OH MY GOD OBAMA HIMSELF IS SAYING EVERY WHITE PERSON IS A TERRORIST?!"
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Apr 14, 2014 20:07
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quote:If someone started up a ticket system with small projects to help democratic elections around the country, I'd be working on it tonight.
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Apr 14, 2014 20:10
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Oh man, to page of Gawker is assertion that the racist shitlord who murdered 3 people in Kansas "really likes Ron Paul".  E: ahaha he told this to David Pakman in 2010, god drat Phone fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Apr 14, 2014 |
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Apr 14, 2014 20:16
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Fried Chicken posted:*Indiana Dem stuff* Definitely, it's the same with the Utah Dems. Back in 2008 we managed to win 3 counties and elected quite a few Dems to the legislature (as well as giving Matheson a huge win). But since then, we've failed with our voter database, we've failed at candidate recruitment, we've begun infighting (with as small as the Utah Dems are, that's just pathetic), and none of our statewide candidates have won even a single county. But at least we've got a couple of lawn signs (and usually not even that). Nessus posted:Yeah, I don't actually understand this at all - is it because they upset the apple cart? You'd think at a certain point they'd prefer to be the winning party. Again, Utah Dems are the same way; progressive dude is successful? Purge him, we want Matheson to give us money for our failed campaigns. Someone wants to try a different tactic? Nope, can't have that. Someone complains about our 30-year decline? Well, they're just a Debbie Downer! Someone asks why the most promising young UDP organizers get hired away by Matheson or the national Dems? Ignore that; we've got more failing candidates to work for!
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Apr 14, 2014 20:20
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Ofaloaf posted:I've had some friends encourage me to run for local township supervisor in a special election for a two-year term. After a recent 27%(!) increase in pay, approved by the township board, the pay is somewhere around $30k a year, which is pretty nice for a twentysomething and is probably quite comfortable for the retirees who usually hold that role.
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Apr 14, 2014 20:46
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Defenestration posted:I just imagine running for anything and having to show up to a debate and seriously defend why maybe women aren't second class citizens and no the obama isn't poisoning your water supply with fluoride etc etc. 30k is nowhere near enough money for that We all use well water out here anyways. If anything, the water issue has recently fired up the Democrats, as a nearby company wants to dig a gravel pit, the likes of which have caused groundwater issues in nearby areas already. The local Dems have seized upon the NIMBY reaction to it, tied it in with good environmentalism and have been riding that wave for the past month or so. Lord knows how much it'll help out by November, but at least it's something. Also means that when people get paranoid about chemicals in the water they're more afraid of companies doing it, rather than the government, which is a nice change of pace.
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Apr 14, 2014 20:55
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Defenestration posted:I just imagine running for anything and having to show up to a debate and seriously defend why maybe women aren't second class citizens and no the obama isn't poisoning your water supply with fluoride etc etc. 30k is nowhere near enough money for that I can't speak to the local issues he'd be dealing with, but generally local splits are over local issues - zoning, whether they want to extend the rail line, do they want to approve a dump going in, do they want to approve a wind farm, tax credits, do we add a bike path, and how to handle the rainy day fund, that sort of thing. National issues are watered down because the splits there are regional, and locals are all in the same region. It is funny how when the stakes are lower, the fighting gets more vicious and personal
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Apr 14, 2014 20:55
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Defenestration posted:I just imagine running for anything and having to show up to a debate and seriously defend why maybe women aren't second class citizens and no the obama isn't poisoning your water supply with fluoride etc etc. 30k is nowhere near enough money for that Being able to openly mock low-information conservatives, and call them out on their idiocy from a position with a bully pulpit? My God, it'd be my favorite job ever. You know, up until one of them shot me.
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Apr 14, 2014 20:57
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Cheekio posted:If someone started up a ticket system with small projects to help democratic elections around the country, I'd be working on it tonight. Same here, but I think what's missing is a dedicated organizer for the whole thing, which is probably the bigger problem.
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Apr 14, 2014 20:58
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Munkeymon posted:Same here, but I think what's missing is a dedicated organizer for the whole thing, which is probably the bigger problem. So basically it wouldn't be a thread about how to, but a hack a thon to solve the issues? Interesting concept. Shame I suck at programming
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Apr 14, 2014 21:00
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Fried Chicken posted:It is funny how when the stakes are lower, the fighting gets more vicious and personal There's a term for that http://bikeshed.com/ (You can customize it, too http://cornflowerblue.bikeshed.com/)
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Apr 14, 2014 21:02
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