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Febreeze posted:Honestly how often do injuries happen during pro day type workouts? I think people might be overreacting to something we don't see happen very often. Sure it might not happen often, but would you like to be the player who missed out on millions of dollars, or possibly an entire career, because you tore your ACL doing the drill that they already have hours of tape on? It owuldn't surprise me if more agents advised their clients to skip an unnecessary activity that carries a slight risk to their future, and I'd support them in that.
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Apr 15, 2014 01:53
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A lot of changes in football happen as the result of outliers anyway, so it's not that unusual.
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Apr 15, 2014 01:57
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Former FSU RB James Wilder Jr. is apparently hoping to be able to pick the team he plays for in the pros. http://msn.foxsports.com/florida/story/former-fsu-star-james-wilder-jr-arrested-in-tampa-041414 Go Noles!
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Apr 15, 2014 01:58
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Febreeze posted:Honestly how often do injuries happen during pro day type workouts? I think people might be overreacting to something we don't see happen very often. Last year like two or three guys tore muscles during the bench press, hamstrings get pulled and strained all the time during almost every other drill. Honestly, the QB throwing is like the only drill where I have never heard of an injury before. Its not super common, but it does happen and one way to make it happen is to subject them to it over and over and over.
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Apr 15, 2014 02:23
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swickles posted:Last year like two or three guys tore muscles during the bench press, hamstrings get pulled and strained all the time during almost every other drill. Honestly, the QB throwing is like the only drill where I have never heard of an injury before. Its not super common, but it does happen and one way to make it happen is to subject them to it over and over and over. It's probably better for a prototypical QB, who ran a mostly ground-attack in college, who's got poo poo on film and 1 combine/pro-day performance, and all of the "measurables" to not throw balls in private work-outs. He'd probably up his draft stock, and nobody wants that. They might get drafted by the Browns/Jags/Raiders.
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Apr 15, 2014 02:43
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Big names doing pro days gets eyes on lesser known players from that school and some players from small colleges in the area that attend.
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Apr 15, 2014 02:48
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Groucho Marxist posted:Big names doing pro days gets eyes on lesser known players from that school and some players from small colleges in the area that attend. this is how the steelers discovered antonio brown
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Apr 15, 2014 02:49
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I understand its a good showcase, but there is a difference between doing the Combine and then your school's pro-day, versus doing those two then doing private work outs for 7-8 teams individually. Like Bridgewater said he was done doing private workouts and I don't blame him. You have had multiple chances to see him and plenty of game film. Interviews are one thing, but workouts seem kind of odd to me unless you are looking at something very specific.
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Apr 15, 2014 03:06
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Are the combine workouts somehow more damaging than the regular workouts or practices they'll have to do hundreds of times after being drafted (where people also get hurt quite often)?
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Apr 15, 2014 03:31
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Dusseldorf posted:Are the combine workouts somehow more damaging than the regular workouts or practices they'll have to do hundreds of times after being drafted (where people also get hurt quite often)? No, but regular workouts and practices are after they've already gotten the job so if they get injured it isn't as likely to ruin their life forever.
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Apr 15, 2014 03:38
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Im such a massive prick because when I read that news I immediately said "Awesome, Miami can grab him in the 3rd now and laugh about it in a year for getting a steal"
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Apr 15, 2014 04:58
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Dusseldorf posted:Are the combine workouts somehow more damaging than the regular workouts or practices they'll have to do hundreds of times after being drafted (where people also get hurt quite often)? Well, they typically don't run 40 yard wind sprints in practice, nor do they try to bench a certain weight as much as possible. Factor in that this is a job interview and people are going to strain themselves beyond their typical limits. Basically, a "normal" workout for these guys doesn't really contain any of the drills done in the combine, they aren't workouts, they are tests. And yes, people do get hurt in practice all the time. That is one reason why there is a limited number of practices. Same reason why they should limit the number of workouts for a player, but that will never happen because gently caress the labor force, they are plentiful and were appropriately compensated with a scholarship that taught them nothing and only covered 70% of their cost of attendance while making their school millions.
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Apr 15, 2014 05:31
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When something is A. unnecessary given the other data you have access to and B. carries a risk of injury then you perhaps should consider doing away with it.
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Apr 15, 2014 05:43
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Brannock posted:When something is A. unnecessary given the other data you have access to and B. carries a risk of injury then you perhaps should consider doing away with it. plenty of players say they are done do private workouts, the problem is that when they do that you have Cowherd and Bayless calling them lazy good for nothing darkies* and people believe it. *they very rarely say darkies, but you know they are thinking it
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Apr 15, 2014 05:59
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I highly doubt Darkie is the word they're thinking.
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Apr 15, 2014 06:01
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The Puppy Bowl posted:I highly doubt Darkie is the word they're thinking. I have to give some benefit of doubt. Otherwise I am in their territory.
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Apr 15, 2014 06:03
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swickles posted:plenty of players say they are done do private workouts, the problem is that when they do that you have Cowherd and Bayless calling them lazy good for nothing darkies* and people believe it. Yeah, but people here means low-info viewers who A) Didn't need much encouragement, and B) Don't loving matter.
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Apr 15, 2014 06:23
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Quest For Glory II posted:An interesting observation: This is among the dumbest loving things I've ever read. Next you're gonna tell me they should avoid contact drills in practice all together. Unlucky injuries happen. poo poo happens. People are stupid.
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Apr 15, 2014 14:39
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solid take caller
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Apr 15, 2014 15:15
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Rap posted:solid take caller I host the show
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Apr 15, 2014 15:22
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You realize when you declare "unlucky injuries happen. poo poo happens" you're kind of acknowledging that the less time on the field, the less likely those injuries are to happen?
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Apr 15, 2014 15:24
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Rap posted:You realize when you declare "unlucky injuries happen. poo poo happens" you're kind of acknowledging that the less time on the field, the less likely those injuries are to happen? Yes but I'm also saying that out of a draft class of 300+ players only a couple have suffered an injury in the draft process. That's a percentage so low that it doesn't warrant the reaction that they should get rid of drills at pro days or anywhere else.
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Apr 15, 2014 15:40
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How smart does Kelvin Benjamin look now? 
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Apr 15, 2014 15:56
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Doltos posted:Yes but I'm also saying that out of a draft class of 300+ players only a couple have suffered an injury in the draft process. That's a percentage so low that it doesn't warrant the reaction that they should get rid of drills at pro days or anywhere else. I think it warrants high draft picks who only stand to lose questioning whether they really need to do individual work outs. At the combine and pro-days you have a big audience and regimented platform to work off of so the benefit to risk ratio is within reason. Individual workouts is where it goes out the window. If you are already projected to be a early to mid first round pick what do you really have to gain with an individual workout? Meanwhile there is a chance (however remote) you could jeopardize millions. Edit: Yeah just in case it's unclear I'm referring more to Clowney than a guy like Benjamin. What Benjamin did was irresponsible. At least show up to be apologetic to those who came out to see you. Dr. Poz fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Apr 15, 2014 |
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Apr 15, 2014 16:02
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If you're like Andrew Luck in 2012 and you know that there is a 99.999% chance you go number one and if for some reason you don't you're dropping all the way to #2, go ahead and skip pro day activities and poo poo. But this wasn't one of those cases, he's jockeying for a higher spot still.
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Apr 15, 2014 16:05
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The point of the individual workouts isn't really to see the player do the drills and stuff again. The thing that teams are looking for is how well the player prepares himself for the workout. Keeping up your combine-level of fitness and readiness all spring can be a decent indicator of how hard a player will work in the offseason when he's a pro. It is obviously up to the players if they want to do this stuff or not, but it seems to me like if you've got a chance to impress a team and jump up some picks then the injury risk is very much worth it. I mean, you're working out anyway and your chances of injury there are probably about the same.
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Apr 15, 2014 16:11
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Detroit_Dogg posted:If you're like Andrew Luck in 2012 and you know that there is a 99.999% chance you go number one and if for some reason you don't you're dropping all the way to #2, go ahead and skip pro day activities and poo poo. But this wasn't one of those cases, he's jockeying for a higher spot still. This is pretty much the situation Clowney is presenting isn't it?
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Apr 15, 2014 16:19
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bewbies posted:The point of the individual workouts isn't really to see the player do the drills and stuff again. The thing that teams are looking for is how well the player prepares himself for the workout. Keeping up your combine-level of fitness and readiness all spring can be a decent indicator of how hard a player will work in the offseason when he's a pro. Well they also would like to see the player perform in person. There's a complete difference between watching tape and being next to a guy. Girl With Huge Tits posted:This is pretty much the situation Clowney is presenting isn't it? In a perfect world, yes, but DEs usually drop behind QBs, OTs, and WRs.
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Apr 15, 2014 16:28
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Doltos posted:Well they also would like to see the player perform in person. There's a complete difference between watching tape and being next to a guy.
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Apr 15, 2014 16:31
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Quest For Glory II posted:I thought that movie was good, but I'd REALLY know if it was good if I was there on the set while it was being filmed. It is called the eye test for a reason, Quest. You gots to see it with your eye, not with the same screen that displays misleading information like numbers.  I actually understand Doltos point there, but I still stand by the players who decide it isn't worth jeopardizing their future.
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Apr 15, 2014 16:34
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Speaking of individual workouts, Bridgewater is still at the Vikings' facility, meaning he's been there since Saturday. Is it normal for potential draft targets to be hosted for more than a day like this?
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Apr 15, 2014 16:35
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Doctor Candiru posted:Speaking of individual workouts, Bridgewater is still at the Vikings' facility, meaning he's been there since Saturday. Did you see his Wonderlic score? He probably can't find his way out of the facility.
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Apr 15, 2014 16:38
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Quest For Glory II posted:I thought that movie was good, but I'd REALLY know if it was good if I was there on the set while it was being filmed. I know you're trying to be a smart rear end but there's a reason people watch plays like Cats and Phantom both recorded and in person on Broadway. Regardless they're two separate things. Camera angles for game tape are almost always sky cam/stands footage and are completely different than seeing someone up close and in person. I'm sure Clowney's 40 would look even more impressive in person than it does from the combine recording.
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Apr 15, 2014 16:41
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Brannigans Law posted:How smart does Kelvin Benjamin look now? I was pretty close to agreeing with this until I realized that he knew a coach had flown in for the sole purpose to see him workout.
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Apr 15, 2014 16:42
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Chichevache posted:It is called the eye test for a reason, Quest. You gots to see it with your eye, not with the same screen that displays misleading information like numbers. Similarly I think that other quarterback prospects have started to rise because now there's been the time to give their tape the same amount of dedication as the top quarterbacks. And now Tom Savage suddenly has a bunch of workouts scheduled because everyone's said "whoa, we didn't see this tape yet, where did this guy come from". But the game tape was always there. If the NFL Draft was this month though, none of this happens. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Apr 15, 2014 |
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Apr 15, 2014 16:42
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Quest For Glory II posted:I understand it too, but honestly, there's no substitute for actual game tape. One of the things that's happened this year as a result of the draft being an extra month away is that scouts are actually getting a chance to digest the film on players, which is why things are so fluid. If the NFL Draft was this month, I think Bortles would have gone #1, but because there's been so much extra time, I think Bortles will fall. It's just too much time for The Love of the Frame to sustain his position, and when you actually put on the tape, the flaws pop out at you. You see a QB that is not ready to start in week 1, which is not who you want to be drafting at #1, if any top 5 pick. Maybe. You figure the draft process goes into full motion at the end of December so that gives teams four months of many people viewing tape for 8+ hours a day. A scout can easily blow through and analyze tape of a full season of one player in a day because a game produces about 8-10 minutes of tape for one person. The extra time may give scouts more time to re-evaluate what their strategy might be, but I think it's safe to say that by the time the combine is over teams know exactly who they want to target.
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Apr 15, 2014 16:47
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Quest For Glory II posted:I understand it too, but honestly, there's no substitute for actual game tape. One of the things that's happened this year as a result of the draft being an extra month away is that scouts are actually getting a chance to digest the film on players, which is why things are so fluid. If the NFL Draft was this month, I think Bortles would have gone #1, but because there's been so much extra time, I think Bortles will fall. It's just too much time for The Love of the Frame to sustain his position, and when you actually put on the tape, the flaws pop out at you. You see a QB that is not "a poor man's Andrew Luck", who isn't ready to start in week 1, which is not who you want to be drafting at #1, if any top 5 pick. If you're a team seriously looking at drafting a QB in the first round, having an extra month to digest game film isn't going to make much of a difference in your final choice. It's just an extra month for kids to injure themselves working out.
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Apr 15, 2014 16:48
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I dunno, I think that players fall through the cracks and I think that some players teams talk themselves into, but an extra month is a pretty loving long time, to talk yourself into taking someone, and for the players who fell through the cracks to stay obscure. I know that scouts have studied the tape on even 7th round guys, but it's a full extra month, and no one is sitting around twiddling their thumbs.
The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Apr 15, 2014 |
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Apr 15, 2014 16:52
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Quest For Glory II posted:I understand it too, but honestly, there's no substitute for actual game tape. One of the things that's happened this year as a result of the draft being an extra month away is that scouts are actually getting a chance to digest the film on players, which is why things are so fluid. If the NFL Draft was this month, I think Bortles would have gone #1, but because there's been so much extra time, I think Bortles will fall. It's just too much time for The Love of the Frame to sustain his position, and when you actually put on the tape, the flaws pop out at you. You see a QB that is not "a poor man's Andrew Luck", who isn't ready to start in week 1, which is not who you want to be drafting at #1, if any top 5 pick. I guess I'm not so upset about the draft being pushed back anymore in that case
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Apr 15, 2014 16:55
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Quest For Glory II posted:I dunno, I think that players fall through the cracks and I think that some players teams talk themselves into, but an extra month is a pretty loving long time, to talk yourself into taking someone, and for the players who fell through the cracks to stay obscure. I know that scouts have studied the tape on even 7th round guys, but it's a full extra month, and no one is sitting around twiddling their thumbs. I think that extra month is going to have the most impact on mid-late round picks, because you've got extra time to find diamonds in the rough.
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Apr 15, 2014 16:56
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