US Politics April: A Series of Fantastically Bad Ideas

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Islam is the Lite Rock FM: Jul 27, 2007; by exmarx

zoux posted:

Here's an ad from Boehner's Republican challenger J.D. Winteregg. I've linked it to the most important part.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A8kq85Umco&t=45s

Good lord it's like Christmas all over again.

I refuse to believe ol' Rumsfeld hired any worthwhile tax help. Instead he's just bitching that he has to pay for something other than destroying countries.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 22:25

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# ? May 24, 2024 20:55

Accretionist: Nov 7, 2012; I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES

Tatum Girlparts posted:

"Tax forms are hard" said the man who was in charge of a major military operation in multiple nations.

He's probably into this kind of poo poo: How to Pay No Taxes: 10 Strategies Used by the Rich

Two strategies:

quote:

The Skyscraper Shuffle
Partnerships that let property owners liquidate without liability

Two people are 50-50 owners, through a partnership, of an office tower worth $100 million. One of the owners�let�s call him McDuck�wants to cash out, which would mean a $50 million gain and $7.5 million in capital-gains taxes.

1. McDuck needs to turn his ownership of the property into a loan. So the partnership borrows $50 million and puts it into a new subsidiary partnership, which contributes the cash to yet another new partnership.

2. The newest partnership lends that $50 million to a finance company for three years, in exchange for a three-year note. (The finance company takes the money and invests it or lends it out at a higher rate.)

3. The original partnership distributes its interest in the lower-tier subsidiary to McDuck. Now, McDuck owns a loan note worth $50 million instead of the property, effectively liquidating his 50 percent interest.

4. Three years later, the note is repaid. McDuck now owns 100 percent of a partnership sitting on a $50 million pile of cash�the amount McDuck would have received from selling his stake in the real estate�without triggering any capital-gains tax.

5. While this cash remains in the partnership, it can be invested or borrowed against. When McDuck dies, it can be passed along to heirs and liquidated or sold tax-free. The deferred tax liability disappears upon McDuck�s death, under a provision that eliminates such taxable gains for heirs.

quote:

The Trust Freeze
�Freezing� the value of an estate, so taxes don�t eat up its future appreciation

A wealthy couple wants to leave a collection of income-producing assets, such as investment partnerships that own shares valued at as much as $150 million, to their children. So they �freeze� the value of the estate at that moment, maybe 20 years before their death, pushing any future appreciation out of the estate and avoiding what could be a $50 million federal estate tax bill.

1. The best approach is an �intentionally defective grantor trust.� The couple makes a gift of $10 million�the maximum amount exempt from the gift tax for the next two years�to the trust, which lists the children as beneficiaries.

2. The trust uses that cash as a down payment to buy the partnership from the parents through a note issued to the parents, but the partnership contains a restriction on the trust�s use of the assets, thus impairing the partnership�s value by, say, 33 percent. That enables the trust to buy the $150 million partnership for just $100 million.

3. The income produced by the investment partnership helps pay off the note. The tax bill on that income is borne by the parents, essentially allowing gifts exempt from the gift tax.

4. When the note is paid off, the trust owns that $150 million worth of assets, minus the $90 million note and interest�plus any appreciation in the meantime. The trust has swept up a $150 million income-producing concern without triggering the federal estate tax.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 22:26

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

No I'm sure he did, I'm sure they delivered to him an accurate return to file, and that he is just loving exaggerating for effect and didn't spend a second longer on his taxes than it took him to sign the check and return.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 22:26

ReidRansom: Oct 25, 2004

"I spent $x on tax preparation and lowered my tax bill by >$x as a result, and for some reason feel the need to whine about it anyway because I'm a giant baby who hates the government that against all logic gave me a job for so many years." - Donald Rumsfeld

# ? Apr 15, 2014 22:36

Pythagoras a trois: Feb 19, 2004; I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.

I really read that letter as a fiction of Donald Trump's. What is Rumsfeld even up to these days?

# ? Apr 15, 2014 22:39

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Cheekio posted:

I really read that letter as a fiction of Donald Trump's. What is Rumsfeld even up to these days?

He's in a new documentary called Known Unknown where he completely denies having any regrets for everything that happened in Iraq.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 22:40

ReindeerF: Apr 20, 2002; Rubber Dinghy Rapids Bro

US taxes are loving stupid. Okay, Rumsfeld is a dick, but he's not wrong. He's just banging on about it for the wrong reasons. Our tax code is one of the single best anti-government arguments, not because of the amount, but because of how convoluted it is.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 22:41

Alec Bald Snatch: Sep 12, 2012; by exmarx

1stGear posted:

Income tax is an unknown unknown clearly.

Actually it's a known uknown because you know it's unknowable whether you did them correctly.

Now watch this drive.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 22:41

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

ReindeerF posted:

US taxes are loving stupid. Okay, Rumsfeld is a dick, but he's not wrong. He's just banging on about it for the wrong reasons. Our tax code is one of the single best anti-government arguments, not because of the amount, but because of how convoluted it is.

Thing is, if our tax code was fixed the way it should be, Rummy would be pretty upset with those circumstances too but for different reasons.

Rummy just wants people upset at the tax code (not hard to do) so the GOP can gently caress it even further.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 22:45

Swan Oat: Oct 9, 2012; I was selected for my skill.

Maybe he just wants a flat tax :shrug:

# ? Apr 15, 2014 22:46

ReindeerF: Apr 20, 2002; Rubber Dinghy Rapids Bro

Boon posted:

Thing is, if our tax code was fixed the way it should be, Rummy would be pretty upset with those circumstances too but for different reasons.

Rummy just wants people upset at the tax code (not hard to do) so the GOP can gently caress it even further.

I agree, and said as much, but people shouldn't defend our absurd tax code just because someone they don't like is criticizing it accurately.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 22:48

Pythagoras a trois: Feb 19, 2004; I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.

ReindeerF posted:

I agree, and said as much, but people shouldn't defend our absurd tax code just because someone they don't like is criticizing it accurately.

About as much as Ted Cruz filibustering over Drone Strikes is a great time to start a level headed public discourse about Drone Strikes.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 22:56

Whiskey Sours: Jan 25, 2014; Weather proof.

Accretionist posted:

quote:
The Skyscraper Shuffle
Partnerships that let property owners liquidate without liability

Two people are 50-50 owners, through a partnership, of an office tower worth $100 million. One of the owners�let�s call him McDuck�wants to cash out, which would mean a $50 million gain and $7.5 million in capital-gains taxes.

Does anyone know where I can buy an office tower for $0?

# ? Apr 15, 2014 22:58

A Winner is Jew: Feb 14, 2008; by exmarx

ReidRansom posted:

"I spent $x on tax preparation and lowered my tax bill by >$x as a result, and for some reason feel the need to whine about it anyway because I'm a giant baby who hates the government that against all logic gave me a job for so many years in which I oversaw the mismanagement of hundreds of billions to even trillions dollars in war profiteering contracts given to my already wealthy and super-wealthy friends and facilitated the torture of thousands and the death of hundreds of thousands over at best questionable intelligence while myself and the select few who directly profited from that wholesale death and destruction will not only never be held accountable, but will also bitch about paying only a fraction of my war profiteering back to the nation." - Donald Rumsfeld

FTFY

ReindeerF posted:

I agree, and said as much, but people shouldn't defend our absurd tax code just because someone they don't like is criticizing it accurately.

And while our tax code is insane, gently caress Rumsfeld forever.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:00

Gynocentric Regime: Jun 9, 2010; by Cyrano4747

Khisanth Magus posted:

Tax forms probably are hard when you are figuring out the minimum of what you have to report, what you were able to hide in tax havens, how much were things not related to work income(which for rich people is most of it, for poor people is all of it).

For most of the US they can get away with doing their taxes on turbotax or whatever because they are extremely simple. For the rich it is harder because they need to weasel out of as much as they can.

Or you can do what me and my husband do and pay your fair share, but whatevs.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:09

Alec Bald Snatch: Sep 12, 2012; by exmarx

Hasters posted:

Or you can do what me and my husband do and pay your fair share, but whatevs.

It's just as much of a pain in the rear end if you're on the up and up and have the usual rich people problems of multiple income sources and lots of itemized deductions.

Granted, you're in all likelihood paying someone to do your taxes for you in that case, but still.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:21

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Speaking of Republicans paying taxes.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:23

greatn: Nov 15, 2006; by Lowtax

What kind of rear end in a top hat millionaire walks his return to the post office like some schmuck?

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:24

esto es malo: Aug 3, 2006; Don't want to end up a cartoon

In a cartoon graveyard

mr. mephistopheles posted:

It's not even gun deaths, it's gun MURDERS meaning criminal gun deaths, which would presumably be lowered by virtue of there being more ways to rule a gun death lawful, but then that didn't even happen.

The distinction between murders and deaths makes the graph more telling based on your presumption but I'm not sure if we can even give the benefit of the doubt to the creator w/r/t proper labeling. For all we know the idiot who plotted the Y axis on opposite day also had no clue how "murder" is defined and it is just slang for death by bullet without any legal consideration.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:25

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

greatn posted:

What kind of rear end in a top hat millionaire walks his return to the post office like some schmuck?

Hillary Clinton doesn't know how to pump her own gas!

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:25

Defenestration: Aug 10, 2006; "It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"; Grimey Drawer

Joementum posted:

Speaking of Republicans paying taxes.

Came to post this. Why is Romney in line for his taxes? Why is he in line on tax day? Dude with that much money should have been responsible and finished them sooner.

Does Josh Romney have a job?

E: someone replied "can we see them?" Lol

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:32

StandardVC10: Feb 6, 2007; This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant

Josh Romney sounds like a bit of a douche.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:33

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

I'm gonna tweet my dad doing boring poo poo, and wingnuts will subsidize my life forever.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:35

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Speaking of Harry Reid.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:36

StandardVC10: Feb 6, 2007; This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant

Nonsense posted:

I'm gonna tweet my dad doing boring poo poo, and wingnuts will subsidize my life forever.

RINO!

(But don't worry dude, check's in the mail.)

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:36

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

Joementum posted:

Speaking of Harry Reid.

I request Reid's head on everyone.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:36

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Joementum posted:

Speaking of Harry Reid.

He's fused with Denis Kucinich? :confused:

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:39

Ammat The Ankh: Sep 7, 2010; Now, attempt to defeat me!
And I shall become a living legend!

StandardVC10 posted:

Josh Romney sounds like a bit of a douche.

Which of them was the one who was giving Obama the evil eye in the second debate? Was that Josh?

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:41

Fritz Coldcockin: Nov 7, 2005

Joementum posted:

Speaking of Republicans paying taxes.

Awwww, SOMEONE's butthurt that his daddy isn't President. Seriously, the election was a year and a half ago. Let it go.

Also pretty sure that someone with eleventy kabillion dollars wouldn't stand in a line to file tax returns.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:42

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

The truth is he's helping Josh file his.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:46

Swan Oat: Oct 9, 2012; I was selected for my skill.

If you've ever wanted to tell the lead singer from Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeroes how you would do the US budget, now is your chance!

Personally I zeroed out all funding for defense in favor of a bloated healthcare budget. Thanks Obama!

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:51

Horseshoe theory: Mar 7, 2005

Whiskey Sours posted:

Does anyone know where I can buy an office tower for $0?

The building has a tax basis of $0 because it's been fully depreciated.

# ? Apr 15, 2014 23:58

Jerry Manderbilt: May 31, 2012; No matter how much paperwork I process, it never goes away. It only increases.

Ammat The Ankh posted:

Which of them was the one who was giving Obama the evil eye in the second debate? Was that Josh?

I think Tagg :lol:

was the one who said he wanted to punch Obama after the second debate.

# ? Apr 16, 2014 00:02

Bunleigh: Jun 6, 2005; by exmarx

It gives me a little bit of joy to think about Mitt Romney deciding to go stand in line at the post office like a chump purely for a photo op that won't matter at all to anybody. I guess I just like seeing the Romneybot attempting the rituals of normal humans.

# ? Apr 16, 2014 00:03

RevKrule: Jul 9, 2001; Thrilling the forums since 2001

Maybe it's just me but I e-filed my taxes. Is Mitt Romney so out of touch with America he doesn't even know he can do that? Or is he so out of touch he doesn't know how? That's what this picture said to me honestly.

# ? Apr 16, 2014 00:05

Jerry Manderbilt: May 31, 2012; No matter how much paperwork I process, it never goes away. It only increases.

RevKrule posted:

Maybe it's just me but I e-filed my taxes. Is Mitt Romney so out of touch with America he doesn't even know he can do that? Or is he so out of touch he doesn't know how? That's what this picture said to me honestly.

The Romneys coming off as out of touch when they're trying to do the whole "We're just like you, Real America!" is kind of to be expected, isn't it?

# ? Apr 16, 2014 00:12

Horseshoe theory: Mar 7, 2005

Reminder that, as a director of Marriott, Mitt Romney was openly involved in a tax shelter (Son of BOSS).

# ? Apr 16, 2014 00:13

Whiskey Sours: Jan 25, 2014; Weather proof.

ThirdPartyView posted:

The building has a tax basis of $0 because it's been fully depreciated.

I don't think so. The depreciation would have to be recaptured, then capital gain applies to the difference between the sale price and the original purchase price. I suppose you could use some shell company voodoo to avoid recapture, but it seems more likely that the author of that article doesn't understand capital gains.

# ? Apr 16, 2014 00:16

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Defenestration posted:

Came to post this. Why is Romney in line for his taxes? Why is he in line on tax day? Dude with that much money should have been responsible and finished them sooner.

Does Josh Romney have a job?

E: someone replied "can we see them?" Lol

I thought most rich people had to file in October because it's hard to ensure that ALL entities you have some stake in get you your forms on time and are accurate.

# ? Apr 16, 2014 00:19

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# ? May 24, 2024 20:55

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

It's a well-worn adage among people with money that if you owe on your tax bill, you should wait until the very last minute to pay. So thanks for proving that your dad's a grudging miser, Josh!

# ? Apr 16, 2014 00:23

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