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Am I a weird Seattlite that fills up gas before entering and after leaving Oregon so I don't have to deal with the full service silliness down there? I know you're not supposed to tip but it just feels so weird.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:29
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Tigntink posted:Bahhahahaha I was just ranting about how loving useless and lovely Vancouver WA is. I want to punch them in their stupid loving faces every time I hear them complain about the state of the bridges. IT'S YOUR FAULT ASSHOLES. Hey now, some of us actually support a new bridge. I even was for moving ahead with a bridge design that was hosed up in fundamental ways.* *I always take 205 in but traffic is bad enough as it is. I can't imagine how horrible it will be when the Interstate bridge falls into the water.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:30
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mod sassinator posted:Am I a weird Seattlite that fills up gas before entering and after leaving Oregon so I don't have to deal with the full service silliness down there? I know you're not supposed to tip but it just feels so weird. I do as well. The last thing I want to do is have to watch the poor kid like a hawk to make sure he's putting diesel or premium in like I requested.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:33
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size1one posted:Hey now, some of us actually support a new bridge. I even was for moving ahead with a bridge design that was hosed up in fundamental ways.* Well the last time Washington let an critical interstate bridge fall into a river- all 11 months ago- the following traffic detour boondoggle resulted in killing a State Trooper. So if we keep form we're looking at 1.5 dead people because of our myopic, regressive, FYGM, NIMBY residents.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:38
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Thanatosian posted:Oregon should just build that bridge themselves, then stick a $20 toll on it to fund it. It sure as gently caress isn't a bunch of Portlanders heading up to Vancouver three times a week who are using it. And I wouldn't give a poo poo about a $20 toll the handful of times I go to Portland a year. Eh, realistically there's just no particular upside for Oregon to have the bridge rebuilt outside of safety concerns. It'd be good to have done, and Oregon is willing to pay its fair share for the benefit of the regional economy, but if Washington isn't willing to pony up the money then there's really no reason for Oregon to build a bridge. I do think that they have a responsibility to make sure that it's safe to use though - I mean that bridge is one of the worst rated bridges in the entire nation, worse than the Skagit River Bridge that collapsed up near Seattle. One way or the other, that bridge is going to have to be shut down. Dusseldorf posted:What would the federal restrictions on this be with regards to interstate commerce? It'd be doable, particularly with Washington's cooperation. Oregon was thinking about doing this kind of toll road concept for a while after the CRC got shot down by WA. mod sassinator posted:Am I a weird Seattlite that fills up gas before entering and after leaving Oregon so I don't have to deal with the full service silliness down there? I know you're not supposed to tip but it just feels so weird. Yeah that's weird and goony. Do you also only use automated checkouts at the grocery store?
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Apr 15, 2014 22:43
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Kaal posted:Eh, realistically there's just no particular upside for Oregon to have the bridge rebuilt outside of safety concerns. It'd be good to have done, and Oregon is willing to pay its fair share for the benefit of the regional economy, but if Washington isn't willing to pony up the money then there's really no reason for Oregon to build a bridge. I do think that they have a responsibility to make sure that it's safe to use though - I mean that bridge is one of the worst rated bridges in the entire nation, worse than the Skagit River Bridge that collapsed up near Seattle. One way or the other, that bridge is going to have to be shut down. I don't really see a huge upside to Washington to fixing that bridge, though; what, we want to make it easier for the loving assholes in Vancouver to avoid paying for the infrastructure they're using? gently caress that. I'd rather just shut the thing down, force the fuckfaces to buy their poo poo up here, or spend a bunch of extra time going around.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:47
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Kaal posted:Eh, realistically there's just no particular upside for Oregon to have the bridge rebuilt outside of safety concerns. It'd be good to have done, and Oregon is willing to pay its fair share for the benefit of the regional economy, but if Washington isn't willing to pony up the money then there's really no reason for Oregon to build a bridge. I do think that they have a responsibility to make sure that it's safe to use though - I mean that bridge is one of the worst rated bridges in the entire nation, worse than the Skagit River Bridge that collapsed up near Seattle. One way or the other, that bridge is going to have to be shut down. The Skagit River Bridge might not have been rated poorly on a material stress calculator, but the archways were so poorly designed that the thing was going to come down sooner than later. What happened was that a truck taller than the supporting archway was forced into the (lower) right hand lane, striking the I-Beam and tearing the entire thing off. The truck was given a transit permit based on its height being under the higher left-hand lane's archway- because the regulatory bodies at WDOT are kinda dumb.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:49
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mod sassinator posted:Am I a weird Seattlite that fills up gas before entering and after leaving Oregon so I don't have to deal with the full service silliness down there? I know you're not supposed to tip but it just feels so weird. It could be worse like driving to a Oregon gas station with CA plates.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:59
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etalian posted:It could be worse like driving to a Oregon gas station with CA plates. Are the people in Oregon honestly that big of babies?
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Apr 15, 2014 23:08
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Dusseldorf posted:Are the people in Oregon honestly that big of babies? Not in Eugene, most cars here have CA plates.
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Apr 15, 2014 23:15
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Sloppy posted:Not in Eugene, most cars here have CA plates. How many U of O students are from California, exactly?
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Apr 15, 2014 23:17
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Thanatosian posted:Oregon has a big upside, in that lots of people from Washington go down there to do their shopping. It's an economic boon for them. Sure Clark County conservatives come down and spend money, but they also siphon out jobs and businesses and undermine the Portland housing market. There's 60,000 commuting into Portland every day, and that represents a gaping hole in property taxes and community development that Oregonians have to fill - while also creating chronic unemployment issues in Portland. It's difficult to see that as a boon, and certainly not the basis for paying for a bridge just so Washington residents have an easier commute. http://www.pewstates.org/projects/stateline/headlines/how-two-state-tax-systems-have-and-havent-shaped-metro-portland-85899381614 Kaal fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Apr 15, 2014 |
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Apr 15, 2014 23:18
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:How many U of O students are from California, exactly? Its more to the point to ask yourself who would be able to afford the luxury of owning a car during their college years: those already paying out-of-state tuition, or those who are not paying out-of-state tuition?
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Apr 15, 2014 23:21
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Kaal posted:Sure Clark County conservatives come down and spend money, but they also siphon out jobs and businesses and undermine the Portland housing market. There's 60,000 commuting into Portland every day, and that represents a gaping hole in property taxes and community development that Oregonians have to fill - while also having chronic unemployment issues. It's difficult to see that as a boon, and certainly not the basis for paying for a bridge just so Washington residents have an easier commute. I mean, normally I'm in favor of infrastructure projects on principle, but gently caress those guys.
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Apr 15, 2014 23:24
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Thanatosian posted:So... we can all agree that the only people who the bridge is really good for is the tax-dodging assholes? I-5 is... kinda a big deal in interstate and international shipping.
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Apr 15, 2014 23:30
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Gerund posted:I-5 is... kinda a big deal in interstate and international shipping. Fair point. That brings us back to the tolling option.
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Apr 15, 2014 23:32
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:How many U of O students are from California, exactly? All of them, I think. Except me. Edit: Oregon residents 13,129 55% Out-of-state residents 8,473 35% International 2,946 10%
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Apr 15, 2014 23:35
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Thanatosian posted:Fair point. That brings us back to the tolling option. Right, but that's never going to fly because it's a terrible idea for Oregonians to just build a bridge for Washington because it's "the right thing to do". I understand that the problem here is a bunch of Clark County assholes that are taking advantage of Washington's sales tax, and coming between two otherwise progressive states, but the only way that bridge is getting built is going to be a cooperative venture. Kaal fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Apr 15, 2014 |
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Apr 15, 2014 23:36
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Thanatosian posted:Oregon has a big upside, in that lots of people from Washington go down there to do their shopping. It's an economic boon for them. Building the bridge and light rail would help the development of downtown Vancouver. It's cheap to move office space there but noone really wants to move to a lovely area with a lovely commute too. Development would drive property values up. Whereas the bridge falling into the river would have the exact opposite effect. With bridges Vancouver is a nice suburb of Portland. Without bridges it goes back to being a lovely little industrial
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Apr 15, 2014 23:38
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Oregon should annex Vancouver. gently caress those jerks, you guys can have them. Take the rest of WA-3 while you're at it.
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Apr 15, 2014 23:52
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oxbrain posted:Oregon should annex Vancouver. gently caress those jerks, you guys can have them. Take the rest of WA-3 while you're at it. Giving them Jaime Herrera Beutler and her miracle baby would constitute a breach of the Geneva Conventions.
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Apr 15, 2014 23:55
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BraveUlysses posted:Groceries are already exempt from sales tax. So glad I typed that out without clarifying that groceries aren't just food.
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Apr 15, 2014 23:55
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oxbrain posted:Oregon should annex Vancouver. gently caress those jerks, you guys can have them. Take the rest of WA-3 while you're at it. Can we have the Palouse, too?
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Apr 16, 2014 00:19
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oxbrain posted:Oregon should annex Vancouver. gently caress those jerks, you guys can have them. Take the rest of WA-3 while you're at it. Howabout we trade with Canada. We can build a wall around Vancouver, WA, and treat it like east Berlin/Germany. Then expand WA up to Vancouver, BC, and build some real roads and such up there. I love Vancouver, BC--if you haven't ever visited, check it out. Tons of good food, parks, etc. Terrible roads though.
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Apr 16, 2014 00:22
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Thanatosian posted:Fair point. That brings us back to the tolling option. They can take 205. The-Mole posted:Can we have the Palouse, too? No.
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Apr 16, 2014 00:41
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Kaal posted:Sure Clark County conservatives come down and spend money, but they also siphon out jobs and businesses and undermine the Portland housing market. There's 60,000 commuting into Portland every day, and that represents a gaping hole in property taxes and community development that Oregonians have to fill - while also creating chronic unemployment issues in Portland. It's difficult to see that as a boon, and certainly not the basis for paying for a bridge just so Washington residents have an easier commute. It's almost like both states would be better off adopting a mix of sales and progressive income tax.
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Apr 16, 2014 01:01
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etalian posted:It's almost like both states would be better off adopting a mix of sales and progressive income tax. Considering that both Democrat and Republican gubernatorial candidates have indicated they support a sales tax in Oregon, probably not too far fetched that it will happen sooner or later.
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Apr 16, 2014 01:43
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etalian posted:It's almost like both states would be better off adopting a mix of sales and progressive income tax. I really can't imagine why Oregon would want to adopt the regressive sales tax that's causing the issues in the first place. Oregon isn't the one that's having the tax revenue problem - they're having a sketchy neighbors problem. By all standards, progressive taxation is the way to go - it makes people happier, provides steady funding, encourages stable business growth, and reduces income inequality. Whenever Oregon has revenue issues it's because Sizemore conservatives intentionally throw wrenches into the tax system. All of the complaints about our current system can be tied directly to out-of-state shitbags like Norquist who push through restrictions on the Oregon tax system, like how they prevented Oregon from creating reserve accounts during boom years and now blast progressive taxation for having deficits during the lean years. size1one posted:Considering that both Democrat and Republican gubernatorial candidates have indicated they support a sales tax in Oregon, probably not too far fetched that it will happen sooner or later. I sure hope not. Fortunately Oregonians have a long history of rejecting the idea - nine times altogether. The last time Oregon conservatives tried to push through sales tax "reform" in 1993, 75% of Oregonians voted it down. If Kitzhaber wants to tie his new business-friendly politics to that particular mast, I won't feel bad about seeing him squirm in the primaries. Kaal fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 01:52
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Kaal posted:I sure hope not. Fortunately Oregonians have a long history of rejecting the idea - nine times altogether. The last time Oregon conservatives tried to push through sales tax "reform" in 1993, 75% of Oregonians voted it down. If Kitzhaber wants to tie his new business-friendly politics to that particular mast, I won't feel bad about seeing him squirm in the primaries. It isn't a very popular idea and I find it hard to believe anyone floating that idea could get elected. Jon Justesen is also promising to raise the minimum wage too so who knows. Also I was mistaken, The Democrats with tax plans are state senators: http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/12/sales_tax_fever_republican_can.html posted:The Hass plan This was a few months ago though and I haven't been watching it close enough to know where this has gone. Tax reform is a priority for Kitzhaber though.
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Apr 16, 2014 02:19
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size1one posted:It isn't a very popular idea and I find it hard to believe anyone floating that idea could get elected. Jon Justesen is also promising to raise the minimum wage too so who knows. Also I was mistaken, The Democrats with tax plans are state senators. ... This was a few months ago though and I haven't been watching it close enough to know where this has gone. Tax reform is a priority for Kitzhaber though. It's certainly shaping up to be an interesting primary. Usually Oregonians keep our incumbents on for the long-haul, so they can get as puissant as possible, but Kitzhaber seems intent on sabotaging his support from the left. I haven't liked him much this term, and I definitely don't like seeing the Oregonian print glowing editorials about how Kitzhaber plans to focus his next term on enacting sales taxes and pushing through anti-union laws. I don't know if working at OHSU changed his political stance, or if he just got gun-shy after tangling with the national Republicans during his first tenure, but Kitzhaber isn't the same man that he was during his first go-around as governor. edit: And it looks like Jon Justesen pulled out of the race a couple months ago. Not too surprising since he was a Republican who was running far to the left of the party - advocating things like a living wage, gay/women's rights, and progressive taxation. He could have easily gone onto the Democratic ticket as a reformed moderate and seen better luck. quote:Justesen, previously a political unknown, raised eyebrows by campaigning as a staunch supporter of a sales tax and critic of income inequality. He called for raising the minimum wage and for support of abortion rights. Kaal fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 02:28
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Xylorjax posted:They If you're just interested in moving stuff between Seattle, Portland, and on south, 205 is already the better option, because it bypasses Vancouver and the more congested areas of Portland completely.
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Apr 16, 2014 06:29
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I heard on the radio today that the 15 Now movement in Seattle is introducing the bill that would raise the minimum wage to $15 as a city charter amendment which would mean that if it did pass it would require another vote to undo it since charter amendments cant be reversed by the city council. Pretty interesting that they feel confident enough to do it that way. I guess they'll require more signatures than if they were just doing it normal style.
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Apr 16, 2014 06:36
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Reason posted:I heard on the radio today that the 15 Now movement in Seattle is introducing the bill that would raise the minimum wage to $15 as a city charter amendment which would mean that if it did pass it would require another vote to undo it since charter amendments cant be reversed by the city council. Pretty interesting that they feel confident enough to do it that way. I guess they'll require more signatures than if they were just doing it normal style. It would most importantly bypass the silly things like 'legislature' and 'executive' and 'mitigating language'.
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Apr 16, 2014 07:17
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mod sassinator posted:Am I a weird Seattlite that fills up gas before entering and after leaving Oregon so I don't have to deal with the full service silliness down there? I know you're not supposed to tip but it just feels so weird. Thanatosian posted:Fair point. That brings us back to the tolling option. Also remember that that particular freeway stretches all the way to San Diego. Its not just a local tourist bridge.
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Apr 16, 2014 09:21
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Granted, is the hit to shipping going to be greater than the hit Oregon might take from funding that thing especially considering the state's politics at the moment. It almost certainly is going to see giant program overruns which ultimately the state is going to have to pay for, which means Salem either has to raise taxes/fees or deny other infrastructure in the state more than already is planned. Jobs from the port are important and everything, but are they more important than the potentially high fiscal downsides that will hit Oregon? Remember, Oregon probably won't be able to enforce tolls (and fines) without Washington assistance and even the highest functional tolls are probably not going to cover the whole thing as it is.
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Apr 16, 2014 10:22
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Maybe they could stop encouraging tax dodgers : http://www.oregonlive.com/hillsboro/index.ssf/2014/01/tax_abatements_in_hillsboro_wa.html ... or giant political tax handouts: http://www.oregonlive.com/hillsboro/index.ssf/2014/01/tax_abatements_in_hillsboro_wa.html Same old...: http://thesockeye.org/2012/11/30/governors-budget-ignores-out-of-control-tax-breaks/ quote:The State of Oregon currently gives away $32 billion in tax breaks every two years–an increase of $3.4 billion (12%) in just the past few years. ... same old: http://thesockeye.org/2012/12/04/guess-where-oregon-spends-more-money-than-anywhere-else-hint-its-not-k-12-schools/ quote:During troubling economic times, Oregon has slashed budgets to our schools, human services, public safety, and other vital programs, all the while allowing tax expenditures to grow unchecked. In 2009, during a country-wide recession, Oregon’s budget was primarily balanced through budget cuts, furlough days, and layoffs, even while adding new tax breaks and allowing old tax breaks to grow Not like Oregon is alone in these things of course, but "we have no choice but taxing the poor!" is (as usual) not true.
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Apr 16, 2014 10:37
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Not that it's any better but you should see what we let Boeing get away with here. Last year's giveaway was 8 or 9 Billion, and they're still trying to gently caress the employees any way they can.
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Apr 16, 2014 16:17
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I haven't seen any polls on how Prop. 1 will turn out. I've read enough editorials that most news sites (minus The Stranger) give pretty FYGM reasons for why you should vote no. Essentially "sorry poor people, but you should just get a car instead" and no one really thinks about how many cars it would add to Seattle's already-awful congestion. Sadly I live on the edge of Snohomish next to King so I can't vote on it 
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Apr 16, 2014 18:02
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seiferguy posted:I haven't seen any polls on how Prop. 1 will turn out. I've read enough editorials that most news sites (minus The Stranger) give pretty FYGM reasons for why you should vote no. Essentially "sorry poor people, but you should just get a car instead" and no one really thinks about how many cars it would add to Seattle's already-awful congestion. Sadly I live on the edge of Snohomish next to King so I can't vote on it Same here, though I'm much closer to Everett. I don't get it, because supporting mass transit is the most FYGM position you can take as a car driver - fewer people in cars means my commute is better. No construction delays, no wait, just add buses and bus routes in my area and suddenly I'm saving time all over the loving place. What is so difficult about this? Is it really nothing more than "Waah waah waah my precious
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Apr 16, 2014 18:43
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Solkanar512 posted:I don't get it, because supporting mass transit is the most FYGM position you can take as a car driver - fewer people in cars means my commute is better. No construction delays, no wait, just add buses and bus routes in my area and suddenly I'm saving time all over the loving place. The poors will literally take the light rail to your home, steal your tv and xbox, and take those home with them on light rail.
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Apr 16, 2014 18:50
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