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They decide on Iwata in June, I'm pretty sure.
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Apr 16, 2014 09:47
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StriderVM posted:Well according to Gamesradar : So one side in this thread says they can hold out for decades to come, and the other says they will go out of business by next gen. There doesn't seem to be a middle ground, just these two extremes. Where does the truth about the war chest actually lie?
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Apr 16, 2014 10:30
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e: never mind
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Apr 16, 2014 11:18
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Maybe they should just go back to running a string of love hotels and adapt their motion control hardware for that exclusively.
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Apr 16, 2014 11:59
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So they could handle another flop like the Wii U, can they even make another successful console if they still don't realise what they did wrong with this one? They can't keep releasing outdated consoles supported only by Nintendo games forever, just because it worked really well one time. As a games console, the Wii had many of the same problems as the Wii U. However, it captured a new market with its intuitive controller, pack-in game, and low price. At least with the Gamecube they had partnerships with developers like Capcom, Konami, and Sega to produce games such as Resident Evil 4, MGS: The Twin Snakes, and Super Monkey Ball. There were also enough multiplatform games that there weren't just Nintendo games to buy on the system. Either Nintendo need to make a proper games console, and learn from their competitors as well as their own mistakes, or keep trying to strike gold with a system like the Wii. The Wii U didn't commit to either of these.
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Apr 16, 2014 12:10
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Alteisen posted:So one of the biggest arguments in Nintendo's favor for some folks, is their warchest, warchest this, warchest that, I don't get it. It's because the losses they are incurring per year are not that big in comparison to how much cash they have in reserve. The reaction every time they post a loss is "OMG, Nintendo is losing money. Are they going to kill off all consoles and go third party? When the real answer is that they have enough cash to at least make an attempt at another console. As for if the leadership will stay in power after another huge loss, that's uncertain.
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Apr 16, 2014 14:09
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StriderVM posted:Well according to Gamesradar : Haha shareholders love it when a company posts massive losses year after year and starts massive selloffs of equipment, investments and IP. There's definitely no way anything bad could happen to Nintendo any time before the year 2075.
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Apr 16, 2014 14:22
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Patter Song posted:The problem is that them getting up on the stage and spending an hour going "we got nothing, please understand," and then showing a two minute clip announcing Mii as a new character for Smash Bros would probably win them more ill-will than just keeping to their Direct. As far as I can tell, they're dodging E3 because they're loving ashamed about their lack of stuff to show. Except they didn't have nothing last year, they had Mario being released in six months and Mario Kart and Smash under development with at least a trailer full of stuff, a bunch of odd small games, Tropical Freeze, Wind Waker HD, all the 3DS stuff, etc. They just chose not to show that stuff off. This year is the same, Smash and Mario Kart are releasing (and prior to the big Smash direct had a lot of new info to show), Yarn Yoshi and FExSMT should be coming along since they were announced two years ago, not to mention whatever it is they haven't even told us about yet. That isn't significantly less that Microsoft's first party line up, its probably actually more if you take out timed exclusive DLC. I feel like the Wii U is quietly amassing a pretty good library of Nintendo games but Nintendo is too embarrassed to go out and tell people that. Cliff Racer fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 14:39
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Cliff Racer posted:Except they didn't have nothing last year, they had Mario being released in six months and Mario Kart and Smash under development with at least a trailer full of stuff. The a bunch of odd small games, Tropical Freeze, all the 3DS stuff, etc. They just chose not to show that stuff off. This year is the same Smash and Mario Kart are releasing (and prior to the big Smash direct had a lot of new info to show), Yarn Yoshi and FExSMT should be coming along since they were announced two years ago, not to mention whatever it is they haven't even told us about yet. That isn't significantly less that Microsoft's first party line up, its probably actually more if you take out timed exclusive DLC. I feel like the Wii U is quietly amassing a pretty good library of Nintendo games but Nintendo is too embarrassed to go out and tell people that. Plus they announced that we could play DK:TF, Mario Kart 8, Wind Waker HD and 3D World at the Best Buy E3 events. I personally think that was kind of awesome, considering that I got a chance to play two of those games last summer without going to E3. I thought that was a great move to motivate people to actually play these games, but the lines were pretty huge. I got there 1 hour before and had to wait another hour to play. Other people showed up after it opened and had to wait 4-5 hours.
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Apr 16, 2014 16:05
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Cliff Racer posted:This year is the same, Smash and Mario Kart are releasing (and prior to the big Smash direct had a lot of new info to show), Yarn Yoshi and FExSMT should be coming along since they were announced two years ago, not to mention whatever it is they haven't even told us about yet.
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Apr 16, 2014 17:11
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Saying "they are working on a Zelda game" in an interview not apart of a keynote presentation is a bit different than giving us a name, release window, and at least some detail on art style or story. I believe they just said they were working on it, but now is not the time to show it.
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Apr 16, 2014 17:24
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Media Create Sales are out for last week. We're back to a point where the console is only selling between 5 and 6k a week now, and whilst Mario Kart is coming, that's at the END of May. Once this month is up, there are literally no new releases for the platform for an entire month, even in indie games. God freaking dammit Nintendo. Another drought was the last thing the Wii U needed. EDIT: For those curious
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Apr 16, 2014 17:35
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It's not like the PS4 is doing any better, really. Consoles seem more or less done in Japan minus a few surges due to consistent IPs that perform but when you get down to it, mobile and portable seem to be the main drivers in Japan.
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Apr 16, 2014 17:39
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Astro7x posted:I believe they just said they were working on it, but now is not the time to show it. EDIT: Louisgod posted:It's not like the PS4 is doing any better, really. Consoles seem more or less done in Japan minus a few surges due to consistent IPs that perform but when you get down to it, mobile and portable seem to be the main drivers in Japan. EDIT again: OK, just checking those numbers I now see that only some 15000 PS4's were sold during that week... that's quite a bit worse than I thought, honestly 
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Apr 16, 2014 17:39
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PrBacterio posted:...but isn't it selling something like five to ten times as much as the Wii U, per week? The PS4 might not be doing as well there as Sony may have been hoping for but still nowhere near as bad as the Wii U to the degree that comparing them sounds a bit silly, imho. You're comparing Wii U numbers now to the PS4 numbers of the newly released system too.  I haven't found an updated version of this chart, but for the first few weeks the Wii U sold better than the first few PS4 weeks of release. PS4 could die off and sell at WIi U levels a year from now.
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Apr 16, 2014 18:09
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That's a little unlikely if just because the PS4 is assured to get certain big-name IPs and even if its star has cooled in upcoming years, Final Fantasy XV is still going to sell a million copies there.
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Apr 16, 2014 18:17
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ImpAtom posted:That's a little unlikely if just because the PS4 is assured to get certain big-name IPs and even if its star has cooled in upcoming years, Final Fantasy XV is still going to sell a million copies there. It also sells in places other than Japan
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Apr 16, 2014 18:19
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Spiffo posted:It also sells in places other than Japan Well, yeah, but we're talking about what will boost Japan's console sales and Japan if anything doesn't give too many shits about what sells elsewhere.
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Apr 16, 2014 18:22
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ImpAtom posted:That's a little unlikely if just because the PS4 is assured to get certain big-name IPs and even if its star has cooled in upcoming years, Final Fantasy XV is still going to sell a million copies there. Don't forget the inevitable pedo bait games that saved the Vita there.
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Apr 16, 2014 18:35
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ImpAtom posted:Well, yeah, but we're talking about what will boost Japan's console sales and Japan if anything doesn't give too many shits about what sells elsewhere. Yeah but comparisons to Sony's numbers to Nintendo's numbers sort of fall apart when the vast majority of the money comes from elsewhere.
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Apr 16, 2014 18:35
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Spiffo posted:Yeah but comparisons to Sony's numbers to Nintendo's numbers sort of fall apart when the vast majority of the money comes from elsewhere. Louisgod pointed out the PS4 isn't exactly selling gangbusters Astro7x was said that the PS4 might see Wii U number sales in Japan and I pointed out that is unlikely because it has big-name IPs going. What does the overseas numbers have to do with Japan console sales trends at all? ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 18:38
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Im pretty sure none of the big japanese ps4 titles has come out yet over there. You could stick a fork in it if Idolm@ster fails to sell machines.
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Apr 16, 2014 18:45
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Is it possible that we really are just seeing a total drop off in interest in consoles? Could this be more than nintendos problem?
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Apr 16, 2014 18:54
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Social Dissonance posted:Is it possible that we really are just seeing a total drop off in interest in consoles? Could this be more than nintendos problem? Yes, and I think at least Sony and Nintendo have been aware of this for some time, which is why both consoles have off-TV play capabilities. They are still holding on outside of Japan but there's definitely waning interest as the gaming population is getting older/having more life responsibilities and the game market becomes increasingly saturated.
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Apr 16, 2014 19:02
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PrBacterio posted:EDIT: I think the first week it did just as well as the WiiU's first week and has more or less dropped like a stone since, not doing much better than the WiiU's weekly number. Give it a year though. Social Dissonance posted:Is it possible that we really are just seeing a total drop off in interest in consoles? Could this be more than nintendos problem? Portables/mobile are where things are ultimately headed anyway so probably.
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Apr 16, 2014 19:03
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Wasn't Wii-U released during holiday season though? I don't know how much that matters in Japan tbh, but it certainly does in NA and EU. vv My point was that PS4 didn't launch in Japan during the holidays so comparing their first month sales figures directly is a little misleading Jackie D fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 19:36
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Jackie D posted:Wasn't Wii-U released during holiday season though? I don't know how much that matters in Japan tbh, but it certainly does in NA and EU. It did well at launch there too, even Arino lamented about his troubles in finding one on a few Game Center CX episodes from around that time. It suffered from absolutely no follow-through there, too. In Japan children get a fat pile of money for New Year's they can spend however they like (so it's a bit different from the Western world because parents are the ones buying the presents, meaning advertising has to target them, indirectly).
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Apr 16, 2014 19:42
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Joramun posted:So one side in this thread says they can hold out for decades to come, and the other says they will go out of business by next gen. There doesn't seem to be a middle ground, just these two extremes. Where does the truth about the war chest actually lie? StriderVM posted:Well according to Gamesradar : Yes that's the $10 billion number from 2 years ago. Numbers released this year show they're down to <$5 billion. Also the money in investments, equipment, doesn't count because that's literally their business. Are they going to sell their head office building, R&D department and pension fund? They will be forced to go out of business long before the company's net worth is 0 if they keep losing money. The Kins posted:Nikkei wrote an article about Nintendo's troubles that someone on NeoGAF translated the key points of. quote:
500 billion yen is about $4.7 billion. They've burned over $5 billion in less than two years. icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 19:46
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Just think how much they would have made if they hadn't confused the poo poo out of consumers and just called it the Wii 2. Everyone in marketing involved with naming the device needs to take a long look at their career choice.
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Apr 16, 2014 19:58
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ImpAtom posted:That's a little unlikely if just because the PS4 is assured to get certain big-name IPs and even if its star has cooled in upcoming years, Final Fantasy XV is still going to sell a million copies there. I didn't think about this until just now, but what games does the PS4 currently have released to appeal to the Japanese market, anyway? Yakuza and...? The PS4 might just be doing poorly over there because there's nothing out for it.
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Apr 16, 2014 20:06
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Social Dissonance posted:Is it possible that we really are just seeing a total drop off in interest in consoles? Could this be more than nintendos problem? Yes the Japanese console industry has been dying for a long time and is fast approaching the point of being straight up dead. However that's mostly irrelevant because Nintendo couldn't sell consoles in Japan even when consoles were still big there. The N64 in particular got buried by PS in Japan, and the Gamecube also did significantly worse than in the US. The PS4 is selling ~3x the WiiU and it doesn't have any big games out. icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 20:10
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Louisgod posted:Portables/mobile are where things are ultimately headed anyway so probably. Have a feeling this is true, yeah. Someone in here (maybe it was in the other thread) was telling us how they brought the Wii U on road trips for their kids and used the tablet as the display- no TV, all ya need to do is hook the base console up to power and have a way for the tablet to charge and the system works. I think a system built around this idea could do well- wouldn't be competing with Sony and Microsoft really and handhelds seem to be a place Nintendo can actually secure third parties.
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Apr 16, 2014 20:13
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icantfindaname posted:500 billion yen is about $4.7 billion. They've burned over $5 billion in less than two years. I'm not finance guy, but is that even accurate? Like, are you factoring in things such as the 1.2 billion in stock buy backs? That's not exactly "burning" money and is misleading.
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Apr 16, 2014 20:26
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Astro7x posted:I'm not finance guy, but is that even accurate? Like, are you factoring in things such as the 1.2 billion in stock buy backs? That's not exactly "burning" money and is misleading. Well the numbers come from a report in Japanese the guy on NeoGAF claims to have translated. I'm assuming it includes the stock buyback, and I don't see how that's not burning money or is misleading. It's $1.2 billion dollars they now can't use to fix the company. In any case that leaves over $4 billion dollars more they've presumably spent on R&D and operating expenses. Based on what we know the R&D is probably for the health product they're developing. Bottom line $5 billion of the $10 billion they had two years ago is now gone, and it doesn't seem like they'll be making money soon.
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Apr 16, 2014 20:31
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Unless the stock price is doomed to never ever recover from the buyback price, it is in no way burning money to convert from one liquid asset to another liquid asset. It is misleading to therefore round 3.5 billion up to 5 billion, and it is probably misleading to imply that particular 1.2 billion in stock was specifically earmarked for "fixing the company" or that Nintendo would short-term invest every cent/yen/share of their liquid assets immediately in "fixing the company." I mean, if you want to play panic games, we can claim that every dollar they have that has since been put in a bank and pegged to the yen is a dollar gone because it's now a yen and Nintendo is doomed.
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Apr 16, 2014 22:03
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Spoiler alert the stock price is doomed.
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Apr 16, 2014 22:04
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Chronojam posted:Unless the stock price is doomed to never ever recover from the buyback price, it is in no way burning money to convert from one liquid asset to another liquid asset. It is misleading to therefore round 3.5 billion up to 5 billion, and it is probably misleading to imply that particular 1.2 billion in stock was specifically earmarked for "fixing the company" or that Nintendo would short-term invest every cent/yen/share of their liquid assets immediately in "fixing the company." Unless they can turn their general fortunes around the stock price will not be going up anytime soon. By all accounts it doesn't seem like they will be able to, they're pumping money into health devices which I can all but guarantee will be a disaster, and they don't seem to have learned a thing from their past failures. It's not 'playing panic games' to point out that between a third and a half of their money has been spent in the past two years, it's just observing reality. If their next console fails they will be broke, and there is every reason to think it will fail.
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Apr 16, 2014 22:09
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Social Dissonance posted:Is it possible that we really are just seeing a total drop off in interest in consoles? Could this be more than nintendos problem? We're seeing it in Japan for sure. However, Japan has been losing its importance to the console market for the last seven years, which I think is the correct way to look at things in regards to the situation over there. Consoles are still quite strong outside of Japan, despite everyone slow-jerking it to mobile on enthusiast forums. The new systems have had an enthusiastic start. For evidence, see: the sales figures of both the PS4 and the Xbone. Just like other console launches, we haven't really seen the big guns for these systems yet, we're still in the middle of a generation switch. I think concern could be warranted if, after we start seeing development focus on the PS4 and Xbone only, the sales trends start matching what's happening in Japan worldwide. That'd be a pretty long way to fall, though. Western developers are starting to transition from the previous gen consoles, but this will take some time and really isn't the herald of DOOM for consoles just yet. There are over 160 million last gen HD consoles sold, that's not a market you abandon at the drop of a hat. For Japanese game developers, the transition will take longer for a variety of reasons.
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Apr 17, 2014 00:25
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fivegears4reverse posted:We're seeing it in Japan for sure. Whats interesting to me is that while there has been absolutely no interest from Japanese gamers for the Ps4, there has been a lot of entusiasm from Japanese developrs. Not just the big guys like Konami, SE and Capcom who have a sizable market in the west either, people like Gust, Idea Factory, Nippon Ichi and Grasshopper. I wonder if they'll be able to find enough success outside of Japan if that market isn't going to be interested in buying a console. Anyway, in content news, Nintendo could have been the co-owner of the Skylanders franchise, a franchise that makes about 3 quarters of a billion dollars a year.
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Apr 17, 2014 09:51
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Astro7x posted:You're comparing Wii U numbers now to the PS4 numbers of the newly released system too. First 8 weeks:  Two bad consoles.png No one mentioned the Vita 'family' outselling the 3DS 'family'? The 3DS is not looking good right now. It's probably saturated by now but the console's only 3 years old and I've heard nothing about Nintendo designing a replacement? Fulchrum posted:Anyway, in content news, Nintendo could have been the co-owner of the Skylanders franchise, a franchise that makes about 3 quarters of a billion dollars a year. On the other hand it probably wouldn't be that size a business if it was a Nintendo exclusive, or if Nintendo decided to manage it 'their way' and cripple it in some incomprehensible manner. Edmund Honda fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 17, 2014 12:22
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