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BoostCreep posted:I'm sure there are benefits to spinning the 4.8 to 7k rpm with the proper cam and related parts. Although, on the flip side it would be difficult to explain why you always exit the car with a massive, throbbing erection.
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Apr 3, 2014 03:22
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charliemonster42 posted:Although, on the flip side it would be difficult to explain why you always exit the car with a massive, throbbing erection. If "7k RPM LS1" doesn't explain it you're hanging out with the wrong people anyway.
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Apr 3, 2014 04:14
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$800 surge tank? For that price I would get a custom fabbed tank that bolts into the stock location, setup for an intank pump, then run a corvette filter/fpr for a return less system. I think I've asked before, but what size are the stock tank lines? Most carbs cars have too small of a return for efi.
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Apr 3, 2014 08:58
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mafoose posted:$800 surge tank? Most carbed vehicles that I've seen don't even have a return - I used the factory supply line on my tank as a return and had a new larger supply line added.
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Apr 3, 2014 15:11
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mafoose posted:$800 surge tank? The 034 Motorsports surge tank with the Bosch 044 pump installed is $495. The Radium one is more expensive, but it has an FPR built into it. I haven't dug into the tank yet to see what size the stock feed line is, but I'm assuming it's too small. I've never seen inside a carbureted fuel tank before to see what the fuel pickup looks like or how I can modify it, but I assume I'll have to plumb a larger feed line and use the stock feed line as the return from the FPR like IOC did. I haven't found any companies that will make a custom fabbed steel tank with baffles for anywhere under $1,200-$1,500, so if you know of a place that will set me up with a deal for $800 I'm all ears. This would be very easy if the stock tank was a GM or Ford unit. Nobody makes EFI tanks for AMCs.
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Apr 3, 2014 21:40
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Fucknag posted:If "7k RPM LS1" doesn't explain it you're hanging out with the wrong people anyway. qft
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Apr 4, 2014 03:01
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There is a place in Florida that makes aluminum tanks for cars, I remember the z car unit being around $600 and a pretty complicated shape. If you're OK with modifying the stock tank, why not just install an atl black box inside?
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Apr 4, 2014 04:17
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BoostCreep posted:Nobody makes EFI tanks for AMCs. Using the stock pickup works (assuming it's sized ok,) but you have to ensure it's covered in fuel all the time, so the pump doesn't starve out when braking, turning, or accelerating. I've done it that way, and just keeping more than 1/4 tank seemed to be the best solution. This time around, I went with an Aeromotive Phantom setup - $400 bucks, but it works. Just cut a hole in the top of your tank, and drop it in - it has -6 fittings for fuel, vent and return lines, and its little built in fuel baffle is supposed to work well. I'll find out in a couple weeks once I have an operational engine!
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Apr 5, 2014 00:25
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I took a look at the fuel tank last night. Here's the vent. It's small at 1/8". Notice all the chassis glue everywhere. Here's the fuel sending unit. The fuel feed line is 1/4".  The unit is in fantastic shape for sitting in gasoline for 32 years. I assume it's because there was no ethanol back then?   Inside the tank is in great shape too.   So I'm going to order a -6AN bulkhead fitting and run a 3/8" hose with a sock filter through a hole in the fuel sending unit cover as my new feed line and use the stock feed as the fuel return. That should take care of the stock fuel line being too small without having to modify the tank itself. That line will connect to a low pressure feeder pump which will feed the surge tank with the Bosch 044, which will then feed the rails via a C5 Corvette FPR/filter. Fuel figured out, I believe. I'm going to order parts this week along with sending my truck wiring harness and PCM out for modifications and VATS removal.
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Apr 7, 2014 02:46
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IOwnCalculus posted:Most carbed vehicles that I've seen don't even have a return - I used the factory supply line on my tank as a return and had a new larger supply line added. Where is your factory supply line located on your tank? Did you leave your factory fuel pickup tube installed when you plumbed the return to it? I'm trying to decide if this will work for my setup.
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Apr 8, 2014 02:00
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Just make sure you get submersion rated fuel hose. Gates sells it for some outrageous amount of money, but you have to use it if you don't want the rubber line turning into spongy chunks inside your gas tank.
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Apr 8, 2014 03:08
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Depending on supply volume, the 1/4in line might not be enough for a return. It might not be a problem with programmable, but basically the fuel pressure will climb at idle causing it to run rich.
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Apr 8, 2014 05:43
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BoostCreep posted:Where is your factory supply line located on your tank? Did you leave your factory fuel pickup tube installed when you plumbed the return to it? I'm trying to decide if this will work for my setup. My tank stands straight up, and the factory supply comes out the top / center of it. That's one of the things the shop it was at did before I had a chance to do it, I've never pulled it apart to see the details.
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Apr 8, 2014 05:56
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mafoose posted:Depending on supply volume, the 1/4in line might not be enough for a return. The line from the FPR returns to the surge tank, and then the surge tank overflow line will connect to the 1/4" supply line on the main fuel tank. Ideally that won't overload the 1/4" line. IOwnCalculus posted:My tank stands straight up, and the factory supply comes out the top / center of it. Gotcha, thanks. I'm mostly worried about the overflow return line from the surge tank feeding the main fuel tank through a submerged inlet since it won't be under pressure. Worse case scenario I'll just have to weld a bung near the top of the main tank I guess. charliemonster42 posted:Just make sure you get submersion rated fuel hose. Gates sells it for some outrageous amount of money, but you have to use it if you don't want the rubber line turning into spongy chunks inside your gas tank. I was planning on buying a fuel cell fuel pickup kit, but it looks like I can get that Gates tubing and piece together the same "kit" for a bit cheaper. Good advice, thanks. Also I found some cast iron Hooker Headers that are on sale for $285 shipped that go straight down instead of flanging out like the stockers. The deal goes through June, so I have some time, but this might be my best bet for cheap headers that fit without having to muck around with booger welding my own. I'm going to take some measurements asap to see if they'll fit. 
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Apr 8, 2014 07:26
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I'm glad the erod stuff is taking off so heavily; it's nice to have such a high quality package available with awesome purpose-built aftermarket parts that I can unfinished-project-estate-sale scrounge from in five years.
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Apr 8, 2014 18:49
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BoostCreep posted:Gotcha, thanks. I'm mostly worried about the overflow return line from the surge tank feeding the main fuel tank through a submerged inlet since it won't be under pressure. Worse case scenario I'll just have to weld a bung near the top of the main tank I guess. Now that you mention it, I'm thinking they did lop off much of the original pickup; when the tank is down to a 1/4, you can hear the fuel splashing down from the return if you key the truck on but don't start it. The fueling system on my truck is definitely not ideal but considering I've put I think about 10k miles on it and I've never had a problem with it other than one scary rear end leak, I'm reasonably happy with it. At the same time, I think there'd be enough pressure from the return to push fuel back into the tank at nearly any level, especially since yours isn't nearly as deep as mine (obviously not my actual truck or photo here)  I'll have to dig through the swap pictures from ~10 years ago and see if I have anything better on that, or just flip my seats down and take some fresh ones.
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Apr 8, 2014 19:00
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Man, it still blows my mind they just put the tank right there. When I watched Trucks so long ago and they did Copperhead and he mentioned that..
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Apr 9, 2014 01:25
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Seat Safety Switch posted:Man, it still blows my mind they just put the tank right there. When I watched Trucks so long ago and they did Copperhead and he mentioned that.. The reasoning my buddy gave me when I expressed similar concerns about the tank location in his C-10 was that if you are in a bad enough accident to rupture the tank, you are probably already dead. Dunno if it's actually correct, but it sounded good.
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Apr 9, 2014 02:46
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I just ordered the 034 Motorsport surge tank, Airtek lift pump, Corvette FPR, and fuel pickup hose with bulkhead fittings and fuel pickup kit. But now I'm starting to think I might be able to find a different fuel sending unit that already has a 3/8" pickup tube instead of using the pickup kit I just bought. The issue I'm coming up with is how the fuel return will route through the stock 1/4" fuel feed line. My plan is to remove the stock pickup filter and secure the new pickup hose where it used to be so the fuel is still picked up in the original location. That means I'll have the factory pickup tube, new pickup hose and filter, and fuel gauge floater all tied together. It'd be a lot cleaner if I could find a sending unit that already has a 3/8" pickup tube. That means all I'd have to do is add a bulkhead fitting for the fuel return line and call it done. I've been trying to hunt down images of '74 AMC fuel sending units and I can't find a single image of the same unit that came in the Bricklin. The Bricklin forum isn't much help either. Everyone just keeps saying they are the same units used in the Gremlins and Hornets, but the images that I find on ebay and other sites don't match. This is from a mid 70's Dodge and looks closer to what I have than anything listed for an equivalent year AMC. And it's 3/8" already.  The one thing I did learn from the Bricklin forum is the stock fuel sending unit is apparently made by Chrysler, which is confusing unless AMC bought their FSU from them back in the 70's. Mine, from last week: What I need to find out, and don't really know how without measuring and test fitting them both, is will the unit from the Dodge fit the AMC tank at the opening. I know the fuel level floater might be different voltage, but I should just be able to bend the wire hanger so it reads correctly to the Brick's VDO gauge. Does anyone here have any experience with carbureted fuel sending units and knows whether they can be interchangeable?
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Apr 11, 2014 00:59
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I've been looking into headers and decided to take some measurements. I don't think the Hooker headers will fit. The tape measure is just for scale. It's just about 3" to the widest section of the steering shaft, but I still have to rotate the tail shaft of the transmission about a half inch passenger side. It's not much, but it'll give a tiny bit more room on the driver side for clearance.  Sanderson makes block hugger headers that apparently only stick out 2.5 inches from the head and have a 1.5" runner diameter. That seems to be the best bet compared to the cast iron Hookers, because I can at least hammer a dent into the mild steel to help clear.
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Apr 12, 2014 01:36
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Fuel level senders don't work on voltage, they work on a range of resistances. GM uses 0-90 ohms for example. Plus side is, if there's no good documentation on what the Bricklin expects, you can measure it pretty simply. You just need the full and empty values.
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Apr 12, 2014 15:12
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That's 0 = empty, 90 = full for GM. You need to make that distinction, because Ford and Mopar used the Stewart-Warner gauges with 70 = empty, 10 = full. Then sometime in the 70s Stewart-Warner switched to 240 = empty, 30 = full. Mopar and AMC phased in that new resistance curve, not sure if Ford did too. You need to know the resistance of the sender you pulled out AND of the sender you are going to buy. Or buy a new fuel gauge too, if you can find one with yellow lettering.
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Apr 12, 2014 17:59
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SNiPER_Magnum posted:That's 0 = empty, 90 = full for GM. You need to make that distinction, because Ford and Mopar used the Stewart-Warner gauges with 70 = empty, 10 = full. Then sometime in the 70s Stewart-Warner switched to 240 = empty, 30 = full. Mopar and AMC phased in that new resistance curve, not sure if Ford did too. I just replaced the sender and gauge on my boat, and all of the marine gauges are 240-33 ohm empty-full. Depending on gauge size, you can find just about any gauge you want.
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Apr 12, 2014 22:29
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My fuel system arrived. I went with the 034 Motorsport fully enclosed surge tank. It's a pretty cool package. You screw the inlet of the pump into the feed end cap on the right, which pulls fuel from around the pump itself. The push end of the pump is on the left and it protrudes through the left end cap. FPR return and tank return can thread into either end cap, and it comes with bolts to block off the holes you don't use. Since the fuel returns to the factory tank, the original vent will still work through the stock charcoal canister. Super simple. The best part is it can be mounted horizontally (or really close to it), so I can mount it on the frame rail next to the tank.  And I made sure it's a real Bosch 044, considering I got it from Amazon for $139 shipped.  My low pressure Airtex lift pump and Corvette FPR also arrived, so I'm going to start placing things so I can see how much braided SS fuel line I'm going to need to order. I figure I'll go with -6AN lines since both pumps are designed for that, and when I figure out the FI situation and need to switch to e85 as planned, I'll just install another pickup and then duplicate the system so each fuel rail has its own dedicated -6AN system. I still need to figure out my best wiring options. There are ebay services in the $350 range that you send your stock harness to and they make it stand-alone. That seems like the best bet. They all tend to have good feedback, so I assume it works. I could just pull the harness apart myself and deal with the pinouts, but seeing as how I usually only have one afternoon per week to work on the car, I'd rather not spend it all on wiring. Edit: Also, thanks for the input on the fuel senders. The Bricklin uses VDO gauges from the factory. I'd like to use the original ones if they still work and are accurate, but if not I'll replace them with identical modern versions. Funny how many parts on this car are from the "whatever is available" aftermarket in the mid 70's. The wheels are off-the-shelf 15x7 Permacast aluminum wheels and the seats are leftover inventory from a company that made them for RVs. Sporty! BoostCreep fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 20:51
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I made my standalone harness over a couple nights after work. It is really not that hard and I think I posted the link to the pin outs with what is not needed it was like lt1swap.net or something like that.
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Apr 16, 2014 23:39
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That is a slick little setup. I used Speartech to do my rework back in the day because hardly anyone else was doing it 10 years ago, but he seems to value his work as twice as good as anyone else's. No complaints about the quality of what I got back but I can't imagine people charging $200 less with high feedback are putting out something significantly different.
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Apr 17, 2014 00:05
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I hope that Airtek isn't a misspelling of Airtex because gently caress those assholes they couldn't make a fuel pump if their lives depended on it. I'll run an unknown, untested junkyard fuel pump before I'll run an airtex.
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Apr 17, 2014 03:16
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kastein posted:I hope that Airtek isn't a misspelling of Airtex because gently caress those assholes they couldn't make a fuel pump if their lives depended on it. I'll run an unknown, untested junkyard fuel pump before I'll run an airtex. Yeah, Airtex. After a ton of googling and searching, I found a particular Airtex pump that a bunch of people use to feed surge tanks from Supras to turbo F-Bodies to Evos to turbo LS1 swapped muscle cars quite reliably. And if it has problems, then it was $40 and I'll figure something else out. It flows 30gph at 7psi. That along with the FPR returning fuel to the surge tank should be more than enough to keep it full. Edit: Or if you have a better idea for a low pressure cheap pump I'm all ears. I liked the Airtex because it's supposedly quiet and cheap. I'm trying to avoid the howling banshee of a Holley Red pump and don't want to spend $225 for their gerotor pump. BoostCreep fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 17, 2014 03:49
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kastein posted:I hope that Airtek isn't a misspelling of Airtex because gently caress those assholes they couldn't make a fuel pump if their lives depended on it. I'll run an unknown, untested junkyard fuel pump before I'll run an airtex. Anecdotal, I put an Airtex fuel pump in my mother-in-law's Bonneville about a year and a half ago, and haven't had any problems. What do they do, or not do? How long do the issues typically take to manifest?
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Apr 18, 2014 02:38
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Headers arrived. I went with the Sanderson block hugger 1.5" headers. I think they'll fit. I hope they'll fit. If not, I'll bang on em until they fit. I need to decide how to protect the metal once I make sure I can use these. As much as I'd love to drop the money on a nice coating, I'll probably just use VHT black header paint.  I have some emails out to wiring harness vendors trying to figure out what I need. It's a little confusing since I have a 2004 engine with an LS2 intake and injectors, and 2001 PCM and wiring harness. At some point GM switched from 24x to 58x reluctor wheels randomly over about an 8 year period. I need to figure out what I have and what needs to be changed to make this all work. It's very goddamned confusing. I should have just bought a complete LS1 lift out and been done with it in the first place. BoostCreep fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Apr 19, 2014 |
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Apr 19, 2014 01:18
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Good news and bad news. (excuse the picture quality. it was dark and I couldn't see poo poo) Good news. The driver side header finally clears the steering shaft! YES!  And the bad news. The passenger side hits, like, everything.   It hits what I think is the radius arm mount on the passenger side and the exit of the collector is mostly blocked by the end of the radius arm itself. Then it points directly at where the starter will go. This is only going to be exacerbated when I lower the engine. I can try to bend the headers closer to the block and hope the starter still clears. Thankfully the headers came with an extension piece that curves after the flange which should help guide the exhaust away from the starter. Now I need to figure out how to anchor the headers enough to bend that much steel without having to cut and reweld. Maybe if I bolt them to the engine upside down I can get a big enough bar in there to bend it.
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Apr 22, 2014 22:29
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I hate to rain on your parade but that isn't gonna bend without damaging things or using a lot of heat. You're going to poke a hole through the wall of the header instead of bending it. Plan on sectioning it and welding, or getting a torch setup and heating it cherry red and bending it. Probably the former, if you don't want it to wrinkle and fold. You can't move the whole engine like 1-2" to the driver side? Not ideal for weight/balance, but it might help a lot.
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Apr 22, 2014 22:54
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Yeah, I don't know how well you're going to be able to bend that without ruining it altogether. For shits and grins - what if you put the driver's side header on the passenger side but backwards, so the collector faces forward?
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Apr 22, 2014 23:01
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kastein posted:I hate to rain on your parade but that isn't gonna bend without damaging things or using a lot of heat. You're going to poke a hole through the wall of the header instead of bending it. I could move the engine a half inch at the most to the driver side. And I'd definitely heat it before trying to bend it. 1/2" might do the trick as long as the collector doesn't aim straight at the starter. Which means now I need to buy whatever the smallest LS starter is. Probably from a Corvette. IOwnCalculus posted:Yeah, I don't know how well you're going to be able to bend that without ruining it altogether. I thought about swapping them, but it was late and I was kinda pissed. There are other things in the way pointing forward though. Steps to fix this in order of easiest to hardest: 1. Move engine over. 2. Heat and bend. 3. Cut and weld. 4. Kidnap Chip Foose.
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Apr 22, 2014 23:12
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It'd be easier to kidnap Ultimateforce, wouldn't it? As far as starters, it looks like the C5 Corvette starter is the same as nearly every other GenIII V8 starter - clicking the application guide on Rockauto shows everything from the fourth-gen Camaro to the Express vans. The C6 has its own starter but I don't recall what makes it special, and I don't think it's much smaller. The starter on these things is a hell of a lot smaller than the monster on the old SBC.
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Apr 22, 2014 23:31
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Am high torque starter might work depending on how much room you have to work with.
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Apr 23, 2014 02:00
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Bulk Vanderhuge posted:Am high torque starter might work depending on how much room you have to work with. That's what I did, I believe I got mine from summit. It has like 5 position to work with also so you should be able to make it work. I'll have to see If I can find mor info and pics for you.
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Apr 23, 2014 04:38
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Move the engine over if possible so it clears the mount, then make heim jointed radius arms with a piece of channel on the end so you would only have a bolt and the washer on the engine side of the mount instead of a rod a bushing? Something like this? https://technotoytuning.com/nissan/280z/tension-control-rods-datsun-240z-260z-280z
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Apr 23, 2014 17:03
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I finally got some time to tinker today, so I decided to figure out where and how to mount the fuel system. I'm placing the surge tank behind the driver seat bucket under the car. A frame crossmember (the bottom rear part of the built-in roll cage, or "bird cage") which ties the middle of the frame together and runs behind the seats is the perfect place for the tank. I made a little mount for the surge tank, and after some trial and error, it ended up working ok I think. A little ugly, but I can deal with that later. After a trip to the local hardware store I bought a strip of perforated steel, a threaded steel rod, and a bunch of nuts and washers.   At first my plan was to place the tabs above the cross member and thread the rods into the holes, but there wasn't enough room to fit nuts on top.  So I cheated and slotted them.   Simple and sturdy. The front of the car is to the left. That side of the surge tank will be completely blocked off. The right side, facing the rear, will have the inlet from the lift pump, outlet to the FPR, and fuel return. The whole canister is mounted on a tiny angle to keep the air pocket at the top to return to the main tank. (sorry for the picture quality, my phone was being a bitch).  I pulled the numbers stamped on my factory fuel sending unit and did some research. Apparently it's the same unit used in the 1974 Dodge Dart, which the Pentastar logo helps confirm. So I placed an order for a repo sending unit with a 3/8" fuel pickup and 1/4" return built right into it. Which looks like this:  Hopefully if that fits, I can use the stock tank completely unmodified. I'm going to mount the in-line lift pump below the sending unit attached to the fuel tank strap and place the FPR basically next to the surge tank. That way I only need to run one fuel line to the LS2 fuel rail. Less complicated and cheaper all around.
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May 5, 2014 08:46
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My dad sent me this picture from our mechanics yesterday and I thought of this thread: I guess it was in for carb trouble after sitting for a while. I'm in NH and I've never seen one in the wild around here so I'm going to see if I can get a chance to look at it in the next few days.
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May 9, 2014 13:37
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