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For being an article from the NY Times, yeah, I thought it was a bit rough. It basically spends the entire time calling the Chinese search and technology and way they went about this incompetent. I thought it was really harsh. edit: I mean had I written all that and said those quotes, what do you think the reaction in this thread would have been???
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Apr 19, 2014 03:02
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goldboilermark posted:For being an article from the NY Times, yeah, I thought it was a bit rough. It basically spends the entire time calling the Chinese search and technology and way they went about this incompetent. I thought it was really harsh. Do you think it was factually inaccurate?
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Apr 19, 2014 04:47
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Not in the slightest. I think it was dead on. Maybe a lot of articles about China are like this but I thought this one was especially negative. Perhaps I just haven't read enough articles about China recently. I also think I handle everything China with extra large kid gloves now because I'm afraid of offending people by pointing out their incompetence.
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Apr 19, 2014 04:57
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Yeah I was just thinking, living in China where there's this extreme responding to tone attitude about everything and anything about China especially might rub off.
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Apr 19, 2014 05:02
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I don't think you could read this article and say it present China in anything but a negative light. That being said, it IS fairly objective. It's mostly presenting fact and quotes, keeping pretty clear of any statement of author opinion, and it's not too big on unnecessary adjectives. This is just how China's behavior comes across when a professional journalist presents an unbiased assessment. EDIT: In fact, now that I think about it, most articles I read that have a pro-China bias make China look pretty negative as well, because they usually involved bathetic accusations of those trying to "oppress China" and "involve themselves in China's internal affairs" or obvious, heavy-handed denials or justification that seek to excuse some pretty heinous poo poo. Lorebane fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Apr 19, 2014 |
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Apr 19, 2014 06:50
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Nationalist countries with inferiority complexes don't seem to get that the louder and more insistent you are about how great you are, the more pathetic you look. If it's actually great you don't need to tell anybody about it.
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Apr 19, 2014 07:03
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The Chinese government doesn't really "get" anything except intimidating its own citizens.
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Apr 19, 2014 07:06
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Grand Fromage posted:Nationalist countries with inferiority complexes don't seem to get that the louder and more insistent you are about how great you are, the more pathetic you look. If it's actually great you don't need to tell anybody about it. 
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Apr 19, 2014 07:06
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synertia posted:The Chinese government doesn't really "get" anything except intimidating its own citizens. Well that's why I generalized, the Chinese government is hardly the only one that does this. Though the ineptitude of the Chinese government with anything even vaguely diplomatic is stunning and hilarious.
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Apr 19, 2014 07:08
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So is the Chinese gingerbread incompetent for all the usual excuses about it being a developing County/education/lower your expectations or is it incompetents because if anyone complains you can sentence them to years of hard labor without any judicial process?
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Apr 19, 2014 07:52
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Chinese people terrible at pretty much everything, news at eight.
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Apr 19, 2014 13:00
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Cuatal posted:Chinese people terrible at pretty much everything, news at eight. lol, I said this to Lorebane tonight but my words were "Chinese incompetence runs amok, news at 11" lol
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Apr 19, 2014 13:53
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Grand Fromage posted:Well that's why I generalized, the Chinese government is hardly the only one that does this. Though the ineptitude of the Chinese government with anything even vaguely diplomatic is stunning and hilarious. Fearcotton has gotten tired of me shaking my head and saying that only in China are "hurting the feelings of the people" and general butthurt considered to be legitimate foreign policy issues. On an unrelated note, I was listening to the Dodgers game this morning, mostly because I really like Vin Scully's broadcasting and despite being old as hell he still covers the early innings of the team's games if they're played near L.A. He usually does a "this day in baseball" segment when there's downtime, like a pitching change, and today he mixed it up a bit: instead of talking about something that happened on April 18th in the history of the game, he went back 72 years and waxed poetic about the Doolittle raid on Tokyo. "Waxed poetic" might not be the right phrase, though..."lavished praise on Doolittle and his men" would probably be more accurate. Strategically, it can be argued that the Doolittle raid had a lot of impact, striking fear into the Japanese populace, improving American morale, and causing the navy to recall a not-insignificant portion of the fleet to protect the home islands. Tactically, there's no doubt that it was a pretty miserable failure, doing very little damage to buildings or ships which were easily repaired. What got to me that never really did in the past was that Scully's praise for the attack didn't take into account the horrible suffering of the Chinese people which followed it. The province I live in now (Zhejiang) suffered brutal reprisals from the Japanese army as a result. A quarter of a million civilians were killed, many by biological weapons or a scorched earth campaign that included not just the destruction of villages but also the execution of everyone in them for the mere suspicion of having aided the American air crews. Unsurprisingly, I guess living here has made me a lot more sensitive to this stuff, some of which the Party still trots out in its  JAPAN tirades. I'm usually pretty hawkish when it comes to U.S. foreign policy and our moral justification during WWII (I like my selective blindness as much as the next guy), but nothing softens that kind of resolve like talking to a student's grandparents who vividly remember running from the Imperial Army as it slaughtered their extended families in the reprisal campaign. What makes it worse is that these grandparents then wanted to thank me for being American because even though they suffered for Doolittle's raid, they absolutely love that we pushed Japan's poo poo in afterwards, up to and including the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I guess you can hardly blame them for being vindictive.
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Apr 19, 2014 14:41
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What? The USAAF was not responsible for IJA's actions.
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Apr 19, 2014 14:54
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Arglebargle III posted:What? The USAAF was not responsible for IJA's actions. Sure, wasn't trying to say it was. Probably did come across as that though, come to think of it. My point was more that I think we too often fail to focus on or even mention the consequences, intended or unintended, of our government's actions in wartime. (Judging from what my students learn in their Chinese history courses, this is definitely not unique to the States.) How many U.S. students do you think can tell you anything about the Zhejiang campaign that followed the Doolittle raid? I think we should expand the scope of the discussion. I guess this is more history teacher talk than China tourism though so I'll save it for another time.
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Apr 19, 2014 15:45
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Arglebargle III posted:What? The USAAF was not responsible for IJA's actions. The USAAF didn't exist during WWII. Just want to put that out there. EDIT: It should be noted as well that the much celebrated contributions, in China, of the Chinese Communists during WWII was to harass the Japanese and bring reprisals down on the local population. RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Apr 19, 2014 |
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Apr 19, 2014 17:35
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:The USAAF didn't exist during WWII. Just want to put that out there. Yes it did. You're probably thinking of the US Air Force (USAF). The USAAF was the United States Army Air Force. Prior to the Cold War, the Air Force was a component of the Army. Government alphabet agencies... 
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Apr 19, 2014 17:37
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blinkyzero posted:Yes it did. You're probably thinking of the US Air Force (USAF). The USAAF was the United States Army Air Force. Prior to the Cold War, the Air Force was a component of the Army. Yes, that was kind of my point. I thought they meant United States of America Air Force as opposed to US Army Air Force. The Navy also had a component too.
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Apr 19, 2014 17:43
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Yes, that was kind of my point. I thought they meant United States of America Air Force as opposed to US Army Air Force. The Navy also had a component too. Yeah, it's easy to get the acronyms mixed up because frankly who cares about the names, heh. I'd agree about the Communists during the War, too. I read a couple books last year that just ripped into the Reds for spending more time and resources jockeying for advantage over the Kuomintang than fighting the Japanese (though this charge could be easily be levied against the KMT as well).
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Apr 19, 2014 17:47
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Jiang predicted WWII pretty accurately months before it happened and his plan was better thought out than most give him credit. Yes, they were going to hold out until someone else won the war or Japan collapsed but that's because China couldn't win the war. You can't fight a war with just troops against one of the most advanced, well equipped, and trained armies in the world. Everyone gives the GMD poo poo but all the other powers had fallen to the Japanese in Asia outside of Burma. Even then, Burma was always on the brink of collapse. 90% of the Chinese combat deaths in WWII were from Nationalist troops and that's not because they were cowardly running or looting the countryside like the CCP wants people to think. They did the best they could without a unified country and any air or artillery support.
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Apr 19, 2014 17:59
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Jiang predicted WWII pretty accurately months before it happened and his plan was better thought out than most give him credit. Yes, they were going to hold out until someone else won the war or Japan collapsed but that's because China couldn't win the war. You can't fight a war with just troops against one of the most advanced, well equipped, and trained armies in the world. Everyone gives the GMD poo poo but all the other powers had fallen to the Japanese in Asia outside of Burma. Even then, Burma was always on the brink of collapse. 90% of the Chinese combat deaths in WWII were from Nationalist troops and that's not because they were cowardly running or looting the countryside like the CCP wants people to think. They did the best they could without a unified country and any air or artillery support. Reminds me of a great Hemingway anecdote about the conversation he supposedly had with a Chinese general about the British opinion of Chinese soldiers... Ernest Hemingway posted:"Johnny's all right and a very good fellow and all that," says Hemingway, affecting a British accent. "But he's absolutely hopeless on the offensive, you know...we can't count on Johnny."
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Apr 19, 2014 18:07
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Can we please change the topic back to how babyish Chinese nationalism is. Remember when people got butthurt about Björk's awesome song?
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Apr 20, 2014 02:07
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I liked the Malaysian prime minister's comments about how awful a certain group of families had been behaving during the plane search.
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Apr 20, 2014 03:06
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systran posted:Remember when people got butthurt about Björk's awesome song? Some people paid attention to Bjork?
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Apr 20, 2014 04:26
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Yeah she did that Declare Independence song in Shanghai, and she started screaming "TIBET TIBET!" during it, then the authorities shut the concert down and all the Chinese people said that it hurt their feelings. She is banned from China now.
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Apr 20, 2014 04:28
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I am sure the many Tibetans who were at that concert rose up and stormed the t-shirt stand in the lobby after that. The world's second largest economy shuddered and farted before the might of a small Icelandic girl who hasn't had a good haircut in thirty years. You'd think that they'd be able to deal with the whole affair in a more rock and roll manner, I mean, Jiang Zemin is a member of Lordi and all. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Apr 20, 2014 |
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Apr 20, 2014 04:43
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blinkyzero posted:Fearcotton has gotten tired of me shaking my head and saying that only in China are "hurting the feelings of the people" and general butthurt considered to be legitimate foreign policy issues. For whatever reason, I can't stop giggling when I read this. GuestBob posted:The world's second largest economy shuddered and farted before the might of a small Icelandic girl who hasn't had a good haircut in thirty years. Man, there has been some good posting today.
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Apr 20, 2014 05:20
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systran posted:Yeah she did that Declare Independence song in Shanghai, and she started screaming "TIBET TIBET!" during it, then the authorities shut the concert down and all the Chinese people said that it hurt their feelings. She is banned from China now. Never heard any Chinese got hurt feelings from that, instead, all my friends want she to come to China again and only blamed文化總局， the authority that work for banning western artists all year around.
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Apr 20, 2014 05:34
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She must not have sung anything off Post or Homogenic or else they would have let anything fly.
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Apr 20, 2014 06:25
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blinkyzero posted:Fearcotton has gotten tired of me shaking my head and saying that only in China are "hurting the feelings of the people" and general butthurt considered to be legitimate foreign policy issues. It's like Bad Astronaut ran a country
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Apr 20, 2014 06:27
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lol
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Apr 20, 2014 06:38
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Look out, he will report this post.
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Apr 20, 2014 06:50
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The Worst Muslim posted:It's like Bad Astronaut ran a country  HE'S ON FIRE
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Apr 20, 2014 13:54
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I feel like you had that ready, waiting for the right moment.
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Apr 20, 2014 21:19
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Is that really what the NBA jam graphics looked like? I remember thinking they were near photorealistic
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Apr 21, 2014 01:00
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They had the photorealistic heads of the players but once you started the game they looked somewhat like that, yes.
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Apr 21, 2014 01:23
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systran posted:Is that really what the NBA jam graphics looked like? I remember thinking they were near photorealistic Your memory is fine that's obviously the lovely Genesis (Megadrive) version.
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Apr 21, 2014 01:50
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Magna Kaser posted:Your memory is fine that's obviously the lovely Genesis (Megadrive) version. Ah yeah, my memory was correct, the arcade version was photorealistic: 
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Apr 21, 2014 01:56
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Yeah, that's good old NBA Jam. There was a tournament edition that had better graphics I think? I remember playing the poo poo out of that with my friends. Staying up all night sperglording on video games. That was the life. oh wait I still do that
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Apr 21, 2014 01:56
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A high scoring affair in this game
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Apr 21, 2014 02:16
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