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i got banned
Sep 24, 2010

lol abbottwon
But if people die and it creates a surplus then we won't have debt because debt = bad

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gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009


I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Tokamak posted:

The government is spreading the good news this Easter Monday.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-20/disability-pensioners-may-be-reassessed-kevin-andrews/5400598


The UK has a similar system, where they contract out assessments to a private staffing agency in order to get people off disability. In 2010: 10,600 died within 6 weeks of their disability payments ending. In particular 1300 died shortly after being declared 'fit for work'. Somehow a person in a coma was assessed as 'fit for work'.

Putting pressure on contractors to find fraud where little exists, leads contractors to cook the books to justify their own existence. This comes at the expense of people's (literal) lives. gently caress this government for even putting the idea 'out there', after all the pissing and moaning with not wanting to support the NDIS. Trotting out the fraud argument is a sad attempt to garner public support from people with 'surplus fever', who would otherwise want disabled people to be looked after (as long as money is not discussed).

Is there a source for this? That would be exactly the kind of thing needed to ram down people's throats when they say it'll just hurt the dole bludgers.

CrazyTolradi
Oct 2, 2011

It feels so good to be so bad.....at posting.


What I'm getting from this is a "We don't want any more people on DSP, so we'll force you to stay in a job even if it pays less than DSP.".

I do love the whole, "Oh, this is aimed at a very small number of people" vibe they're trying to give off. If it's only a small number of people then how exactly is it a major budget concern?

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

gay picnic defence posted:

Is there a source for this? That would be exactly the kind of thing needed to ram down people's throats when they say it'll just hurt the dole bludgers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_Capability_Assessment#Dangerous_conclusions_and_deaths

Fruity Gordo
Aug 5, 2013

Neurotic, Impotent Rage!

gay picnic defence posted:

Is there a source for this? That would be exactly the kind of thing needed to ram down people's throats when they say it'll just hurt the dole bludgers.
Here's the 10,600 figure: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/223050/incap_decd_recips_0712.pdf

http://www.bigissue.com/features/3637/atos-deaths-and-welfare-cuts

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/371465/Deaths-warning-as-MPs-blast-Atos

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/disabled-mark-wood-starved-death-3194250

Pidgin Englishman
Apr 30, 2007

If you shoot
you better hit your mark

open24hours posted:

Would anyone be interested in an Auspol book club? We could read and then chat about books on Australian political history.

Probably not something super formal, as I don't read as much as I'd like to (computer games :argh:).

However I did just finish reading 'Do Not Ask What Good We Do' about the US house of reps during their year where they had the amazing 9% approval rating and thoroughly enjoyed it.
(warning: it can sting of right-wing bias at times, but I think the author is just presenting the tea-party as is and that sets off all my libertarian nerves at once).

Know of any books about Aus politics like this? Some third-party-but-close insights to the workings of either house?

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

gay picnic defence posted:

Is there a source for this? That would be exactly the kind of thing needed to ram down people's throats when they say it'll just hurt the dole bludgers.

You act like most of the people who would say that are going to care? These are the same people who think we're not tough enough on asylum seekers.

Still a good source to use as back up though.


:sigh:

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

Sanguine posted:

Probably not something super formal, as I don't read as much as I'd like to (computer games :argh:).

However I did just finish reading 'Do Not Ask What Good We Do' about the US house of reps during their year where they had the amazing 9% approval rating and thoroughly enjoyed it.
(warning: it can sting of right-wing bias at times, but I think the author is just presenting the tea-party as is and that sets off all my libertarian nerves at once).

Know of any books about Aus politics like this? Some third-party-but-close insights to the workings of either house?

Yeah I wouldn't want anything formal either, just choose a book once a month and read it if you get time sort of thing.

I don't know of anything like that about the Australian parliament, but if anyone else does I'd be interested to hear about it.

X13Fen
Oct 18, 2006

"Is that an accurate quote? It should be.
I think about it often enough."
Lurker, but I would be down for a bookclub.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008
http://www.wakefieldpress.com.au/product.php?productid=1101

First book of the month.

The Downers of South Australia

quote:

'The Downer family has been seen by the community as part of the backbone of conservative South Australia. An intensely political family who saw public service as public duty.' - Alexander Downer

The Downers of South Australia is Sir Alick Downer's lively story of this well-known family since its first members arrived in South Australia in 1837.

Sir Alick Downer, who died in 1981, was Australia's Minister for Immigration, then Australian High Commissioner in London. His book is enriched by first-hand accounts of many political events, giving rare insight into political life from the 1950s to the 1970s. Sir Alick was also a family man, and his book is a tribute to the past, present and future generations of the Downer family.

Drugs
Jul 16, 2010

I don't like people who take drugs. Customs agents, for example - Albert Einstein
I would rather poo poo my own pants than read a single page of that book.

i got banned
Sep 24, 2010

lol abbottwon
People would probably think better of you if you told them you poo poo your pants instead as well. That you were more mentally sound.

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

Well if we're suggesting books, I'd like to nominate this for consideration.

http://www.ecosmagazine.com/?paper=EC11004

It's a popular book and most libraries will have a copy of it.

Maluco Marinero
Jan 18, 2001

Damn that's a
fine elephant.

beetroy posted:

You act like most of the people who would say that are going to care? These are the same people who think we're not tough enough on asylum seekers.

Still a good source to use as back up though.


:sigh:

Possibly, but its by and large one of the main fallbacks bigots use to justify our asylum seeker policy, namely that we should look after our own (homeless, elderly, disabled etc). You might not sway them but you can make it clear they're full of poo poo when confronted with both these issues.

Flannelette
Jan 17, 2010



Wait, isn't cutting support for people you know will die of their disability basically back door :godwin:
And the LNP still wants to suggest it?

Seagull
Oct 9, 2012

give me a chip
They've already got the front door going, they need somewhere else to do it.

tithin
Nov 14, 2003


[Grandmaster Tactician]



I love how everything that the UK Tory government has done is being derided by other neoliberal governments as being too extreme, so australia runs screaming down the hole of madness.

tithin fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Apr 21, 2014

Lizard Combatant
Sep 29, 2010

I have some notes.

adamantium|wang posted:

Presented without comment.



This is now australia.jpg - no arguments please.

Gough Suppressant
Nov 14, 2008
That cannot be real

Lizard Combatant
Sep 29, 2010

I have some notes.
Oh it's real.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008
The proceeds are going to charity however.

quote:

Two strangers armed only with a six-pack of beer have been hailed as heroes for stopping a dog that was savaging an elderly woman outside a home in Sydney's south.

Irene Koutsounadis, 90, is in a critical condition in St George Hospital having undergone surgery for injuries to her head after she was attacked by her daughter's American pit bull terrier in the front yard of the Sans Souci house about 7pm on Friday.

Her daughter, well-known multiculturalism and refugee advocate Vivi Germanos-Koutsounadis, 70, who lives at the Evans Street home, suffered serious injuries to her hands as she tried to pull her dog, Caesar, off her mother.

Neighbours said the dog had a "vice-like grip" on Mrs Koutsounadis and only released the woman after two strangers - Justin Innes and his son Jacob - who just happened to be walking past carrying six bottles of Victoria Bitter on their way to a Good Friday family dinner, came to the women's aid.

"We thought the screaming was a fight or something so we did a light jog around the corner and there was a dog basically chewing a lady's face off. I've never seen so much blood," Justin Innes said.

"I gave my son the six-pack I was carrying and told him to stay back but the dog was going crazy. I was hitting it but I had nothing, so I told my son to give me a beer and I hit it with that.

"Then he came and hit it with the rest of the six-pack."

Justin Innes said the dog then turned on his son, and then himself, before they were able to wrestle it inside and lock it in the house.

"We had to fight the dog, then I’ve thrown him inside. I got bitten on my left inner thigh. Thank god it was a bit lower. I've already got kids though, so I am all right," he said.

Neighbour Dianne McCallum said the whole incident could have been more catastrophic if it was not for the actions of the father and son.

"It was pretty horrible, there was blood all over the place," Mrs McCallum said. "The two men that were walking past deserve a medal. They just went to the aid of somebody they didn't know."

Justin Innes, however, said there were "no heroics" by him and his son.

"There’s no heroism here, I would expect if it was my mother to do the same thing," he said. "Instinct kicks in, you just do what you have to do."

Justin Innes said he hoped to visit both women in hospital. He said he also owes his dad beer.

"My dad was a bit upset because it was his six-pack," he said. "I said it’s all good, I’ll buy him a case."

Neighbours said they had no idea what had triggered the dog attack, saying both women had just returned home having attended a Good Friday church service.

Vivi Germanos-Koutsounadis, who was awarded an Order of Australia and the Human Rights Medal for her work with Sydney's ethnic communities, has kept a number of large dogs at the Sans Souci home over the years.

While neighbours said she was cautious with her dogs, and always kept them locked up, she had received complaints about their behaviour over the years.

It is understood that the dog, which was taken away to an animal shelter, will be destroyed.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/strangers-stop-savage-dog-attack-with-sixpack-of-beer-20140419-36xbv.html#ixzz2zV3aTasa

:australia:

I would blow Dane Cook fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Apr 21, 2014

gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009


I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Jumpingmanjim posted:

http://www.wakefieldpress.com.au/product.php?productid=1101

First book of the month.

The Downers of South Australia

Nah

gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009


I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

beetroy posted:

You act like most of the people who would say that are going to care? These are the same people who think we're not tough enough on asylum seekers.

Still a good source to use as back up though.


:sigh:

At least you can paint them as the unethical scum they are with facts rather than anecdotes. Even if they don't give a gently caress about their fellow human beings someone else reading the argument might.

Zenithe
Feb 25, 2013

Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.

How about


?

Seagull
Oct 9, 2012

give me a chip
What about volume two.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008
He'll probably get volume 4 done first.

Gough Suppressant
Nov 14, 2008
GRRM got nothing on KW.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008
http://www.politicsbooks.com.au/ccp0-prodshow/matters-for-judgement-john-kerr.html

Ok time for a serious suggestion.

You Am I
May 20, 2001

Me @ your poasting

Fruity Gordo posted:

Arbeit macht frei, gimps - Kevin 'Goblin King' Andrews
What do you expect from a man who got rid of voluntary euthanasia in the NT.

Jumpingmanjim posted:

http://www.wakefieldpress.com.au/product.php?productid=1101

First book of the month.

The Downers of South Australia
How loving old was Alick when he died? ;)

Pidgin Englishman
Apr 30, 2007

If you shoot
you better hit your mark

open24hours posted:

Well if we're suggesting books, I'd like to nominate this for consideration.

http://www.ecosmagazine.com/?paper=EC11004

It's a popular book and most libraries will have a copy of it.


Both look interesting. One per month (or two months..) I could probably get done happily.

Mind you, Howard's autobiography is sure to be amazing discussion material.

Foreman Domai
Apr 2, 2010

"In one dimension I find existence, in two I find life, but in three, I find freedom."

Lazarus Rising sounds like the title of a cheap techno thriller you'd find in an airport bookstore.

Yeah Bro
Feb 4, 2012


I am amazed that they found a picture of him that doesn't look like a fleshy koala.

Nibbles!
Jun 26, 2008

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

make australia great again as well please
The world needs a review of that by Peter Costello.

BogDew
Jun 14, 2006

E:\FILES>quickfli clown.fli
I'm sure Peter Hollingworth was glad he was left out.

slingshot effect
Sep 28, 2009

the wonderful wizard of welp

Glenn Lazarus Uprising.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.
What in the world is going on...

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...0421-zqxee.html

quote:

Clive Palmer says 'hopeless' Direct Action plan 'dead' without PUP support

Date
April 21, 2014 - 6:27PM

170 reading now

Lisa Cox
Lisa Cox
National political reporter



Clive Palmer has declared the Abbott government's Direct Action policy is "dead", saying his Palmer United Party will use its numbers in the Senate to block the Coalition's policy to replace the carbon tax.

Mr Palmer said on Monday the controversial policy, which aims to reduce emissions largely through payments to businesses, was “hopeless” and would be "gone" if his party, Labor and the Greens all vote against it, as they have previously indicated.


“It’s goodbye Direct Action,” Mr Palmer told Fairfax Media.

“It’s gone.”

Mr Palmer had said earlier in the day he would not support Direct Action if the Abbott government made any changes to the pension, in light of growing speculation that there are plans to raise the pension age to 70 and tighten eligibility requirements.

But on Monday afternoon Mr Palmer went a step further and said there would not be any circumstance in which his party would vote for Direct Action.


The government plans to spend up to $1.55 billion over the next three years on the scheme, but several senior economists have questioned whether Direct Action can meet its emissions reduction target of 5 per cent by 2020 with that budget.

Mr Palmer said the policy did not make economic sense and questioned whether it would have any environmental effect.

“We can’t see any reason to vote for Direct Action,” Mr Palmer said.

“We think it’s hopeless.”

Mr Palmer, whose party will have three senators from July 1, said it did not mean the PUP would not support the repeal of the carbon tax and that the party was still considering its response to the repeal bills, which have already been voted down once in the Senate.

He said he did not have an alternative to replace Direct Action and he had based his position on his view that the policy would achieve little for the economy.

“I don’t think we need an environmental initiative to replace Direct Action – if something has no environmental effect it’s pointless to say that it does.”

He added: “We just don’t think direct action is any good.”

“The Greens are not going to support Direct Action.

“Labor isn’t.

“And we’re not.

“It’s gone, it’s dead.”


The government is due to publish its white paper with details of how Direct Action will work this month.

Mr Palmer said the details on the policy had been so scarce that Australians did not know what Direct Action was “other than a lot of money”.

“The Treasurer says we’ve got to save a lot of money so we’re following his lead,” he said.

“If they don’t know what the policy is two months out from the budget you have to assume it’s not a good one.”

Environment Minister Greg Hunt said on Monday the government remained confident it would be able to repeal the carbon tax and introduce Direct Action.

"We have been given a clear mandate by the Australian people and remain committed to repealing the carbon tax and introducing our Emissions Reduction Fund and we are confident we'll achieve both," Mr Hunt said. :lol:

"I look forward to considering any concerns raised and working with all elected members of Parliament to ensure repeal of the carbon tax and implementation of the Emissions Reduction Fund.

"The government is committed to taking strong and effective action to deal with climate change by reducing emissions by 5 per cent below 2000 levels by 2020."

Acting Greens leader Adam Bandt said the alternative plan on which Tony Abbott had staked the repeal of the carbon tax was “in tatters”.

He said that without the numbers in the Senate to pass direct action, Australia could be left with a situation where it had no climate change legislation at all.

“To retain any shred of credibility on climate change Tony Abbott must immediately halt the repeal of the existing clean energy laws,” Mr Bandt said.

“If Tony Abbott teams up with Clive Palmer to tear down existing climate laws in the full knowledge that he can’t get his alternative scheme through the Parliament, the Prime Minister will have failed to protect our country’s way of life and will be Australia’s biggest ever vandal.

“He will have ripped down a scheme that’s working knowing he doesn’t have the numbers in Parliament to put an alternative in place.”


Mr Bandt also called on the incoming PUP senators to block moves to repeal the carbon tax.

i got banned
Sep 24, 2010

lol abbottwon
I read that and I still don't know what to think about it. Clive Palmer is leveraging his position, but wouldn't he want Direct Action to be put in place, doesn't it benefit him more than carbon pricing?

Redeye Flight
Mar 26, 2010

God, I'm so tired. What the hell did I post last night?
He might actually think the carbon tax is more beneficial environmentally. I don't know too much about Clive Palmer, but I got the impression he preferred to be thought of as a sort of noblesse oblige rich type, rather than a FYGMer.

Julia Trillard
Apr 19, 2009

YOLO CARBON PRINCESS
The Liberals won't give a poo poo, they never believed in Direct Action to begin with. There'll be no carbon emissions policy whatsoever and they'll be happier for it.

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Ler
Mar 23, 2005

I believe...
Pretty sure last year Palmer said he would restrain from voting on the repeal of the carbon tax because of his conflict of interest. But that's him and not his senators who probably have the intention of getting rid of it.

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