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Hinoarashi
Mar 28, 2010
I need some quick help/advice. I have 600 pt. Marvel Modern event coming up. At least one AvX starter piece at full. No resources.

Here's the team I'm thinking about running:
1. M10 Dark Phoenix @ 300 pts.
2. AvX Spider-Man @ 125 pts.
3. AvX Scarlet Witch @ 100 pts.
4. WXM Cerise 60 pts.
M'Kraan Crystal Sliver 8 pts.
= 593 pts.

The basic plan is: Witch NMMs if necessary. Jean goes for the sliver. Spidey works up close and Cerise hangs back if possible with Jean wrecking stuff and Witch supporting.

I'm having doubts about running Jean at full and considering playing her at 200 to fit in Black Panther or even 100 for more options.

Any insight/opinions/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Hinoarashi fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Apr 19, 2014

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girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Sanschel posted:

drat those dudes are good. Karu-Sil looks awesome.

Blob is also up today: http://heroclix.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/015-blob.jpg He's kind of disappointing, I don't know that I'd ever use him over the GSX one given the opportunity.
That last effect seems like it'd be very good for him running interference on people trying to close in on your ranged dudes.

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.
Okay, so I'd like to learn how to better use the Charge ability.

Here's a sample (but fake) game:



Doorman has just carried Doc Samson to his current spot. Samson is on his next to last click, which sucks, because he's taken a beating from The Reavers, but aha - now he has Charge. In his line of fire is Pretty Boy (on click #2), Skullbuster with one action token (on click #1), and out of view, off to the left, Bonebreaker (on click #3). Lady Deathstrike is on hindering terrain (on her first click), but she's got two action tokens, so let's not worry about her yet. White King (Donald Pierce, the Reavers' leader) is around the corner on the right, with one action token (on his last click), hoping to repair himself - and has a clear line of fire to Big Bertha. Flatman is pushed (and on his starting click), with Mr. Immortal alllll the way at the back of the map, with one action token (on his second to last click).

Now, let's say we want Samson to use Charge. His range is 7, attack 9, defense 16, damage 3. And his abilities at this point besides Charge are Super-Strength, Invulnerability, and Close Combat Expert. There aren't any objects left on the field, either.

When surrounded like this, is there a rule of thumb, or am I pretty much just tossing Doc Samson into the fire? I would tend to think going after Bonebreaker is ideal, because the other Reavers won't have a clear line of fire to him.

So we halve Doc's speed, move 3 spaces, and roll for our attack on Bonebreaker. With any luck, we nail the goof before he can (automatically - it's one of his abilities) break away. We have to hit a 7, though, for Samson's attack to hit.



Is this the right call? This gets a little complicated since the power action to use Charge negates Doc's Close Combat Expert ability. I'd hate to push Samson at this point just to have him absorb another click of damage.

Torrent
Apr 18, 2003
" . . . "
A good rule of thumb to go by is to always try to choose the battlefield that best suits your team, rather than the one that suits your opponent. With Samson and Bertha as the GLA's big attackers, you want to try to keep things in as small an arena as possible against a superior ranged team like the Reavers. My call would be to have Sampson Charge around the blocking terrain of that car, and go after the White King... not because he is the "best" target to hit, but because doing so puts Samson in the most advantageous position. The fact that he's sitting on a Regen that you don't want him to roll is just a bonus. Reduce your opponent's options, and make them play your game, rather than playing theirs.

Barring that, prioritize. Samson is currently clear, and Deathstrike is currently pushed, so he can Charge up on her, and push to CCE her next turn, without her getting a chance to fight back... it's just a matter of keeping him from getting shot by the others. So, Samson Charges three squares to the left, and then into that square of hindering directly in front of Deathstrike. Bertha moves into the square of hindering next to both of them, blocking off line of fire to Samson (since she is both clear, and can take a beating), and Mr. Immortal hopefully has the movement to go over and block Bonebreaker's shot, where-ever he is hiding.

Sanschel
Aug 9, 2002

Going after Bonebreaker accomplishes very little as he can simply move away to a decent sniping position for the subsequent turn, leaving Samson open for that KO shot from Skullbuster.

In that particular situation I'd have Samson go after Skullbuster over Bonebreaker; that 3 damage Psychic Blast will guaranteed KO Samson and he's got at least one potential theme prob from Pretty Boy to make sure it hits. Going after Skullbuster accomplishes one of two things: 1) you hit him and knock him off Running Shot & Psychic Blast and down to a 2 damage, making him worthless against your Invulnerability short of a crit hit; or 2) you miss and Skullbuster's based and your opponent either risks a 50% breakaway to Running Shot or wastes 2-3 actions taking potshots at Samson with Skullbuster, Pretty Boy, & Bonebreaker by nickle & diming him to death with their respective 3 damages (if he misses one then that means those are actions not used going after Doorman or Flatman).

Also, when Charging I would pick the spot of hindering between Deathstrike & Skullbuster and absolutely push the following turn, as after that Deathstrike will be clear and she will kill Samson. Hopefully that first strike hits Skullbuster, as then if your attack is deflected by Deathstrike's Shape Change you'd be able to wallop him hopefully for a KO; even if the Charge didn't hit him, I'd still go after her on the push to lessen her overall threat. Either way, that +1 from the hindering will mean that Pretty Boy and Bonebreaker (even Skullbuster if you miss him and he makes the breakaway) will need to roll on the high side of average to hit Samson.

Volfogg
Dec 19, 2010

Some say she was raised by sentient birds, and that test subjects replicating her equipment were horribly broken.

All we know is she's called
The Hunter


Red posted:

Okay, so I'd like to learn how to better use the Charge ability.

Here's a sample (but fake) game:

*Image Snip*

Doorman has just carried Doc Samson to his current spot.

And this is where you stop because everything after that is illegal since you can't give a character that was carried a Non-Free Action in the same turn. You CAN carry a character that has TAKEN a Non-Free Action though.

But enough semantics. This is a situation you wanted advice on. Well, here's what I think.

I (PERSONALLY) think the best possible option would have been to have Samson charge to the square in front of and between both Skullbuster and Pretty Boy. The reason for that is this. With Samson on his next to last click, he's pretty much doomed to be KO'd soon. So, you may as well send him out in a blaze of glory. Basing them both there gets you a line of sight for Flatman to use his Outwit special on both of them since neither of 'em has Stealth, and they're both below 100 Points. This means you could choose to Outwit Skullbuster's Toughness, then go in for the attack, OR charge first, and outwit his Indomitable to make your opponent question pushing him (unless they have good knowledge of his dial).

Essentially, while it seems like it'd be a good idea to try and take out Bonebreaker first, you have to realize that you opponent also has/had a Running Shot/Psychic Blast piece that could just run at and shoot Samson to death the very next turn...unless he was based or knocked off that PsyBlast (or had it countered).

Basically, you always have to weigh ALL of your choices. With my idea, you would charge into Skullbuster & Pretty Boy, basing both, and probably going with hitting Skullbuster, saving the Outwit from Flatman for whatever the attack's outcome would be. That way, if he hit, he'd take his lumps, and (looking at the dials) would lose his Running Shot and Psychic Blast. This would leave you with a choice on either outwitting Skullbuster's Indomitable or Pretty Boy's Leap/Climb to try to keep him next to Samson since he's clear. This would also force your opponent to try attacking Flatman to try and get back Skullbuster's Indomitable if he really wanted it.

Just keep in mind that Samson is essentially being thrown to the wolves in this scenario since Lady Deathstrike would clear after your opponent's turn and would just charge straight for the kill on Samson with that 11 Attack she has. Especially since Samson would either have 16 Defense if he didn't take a hit, or would get one last boost to 17 if he was hit for one damage through that Invulnerability.

Fake Edit: I mean, look above me. Everyone has their ideas on what would be best. But what it all really comes down to is what YOU think the best move would be and learning from your mistakes and successes. It's a learning experience after all, especially if you're playing with someone that's willing to talk about what potentially better moves could have happened over the course of the game. You just keep playing and trying until things click with you.

Hell, he even noticed something I forgot to take into account. Big Bertha being clear. You could also have gone with Torrent's idea of having Samson charge White King for the potential "Not Quite A KO", and have Bertha charge in front of Skullbuster and Pretty Boy, especially if you used Flatman's Outwit on Pretty Boy after charging White King with Samson to get rid of that Leap/Climb making it hard as all hell for them to break away from her Plasticity. This would leave Samson a turn to clear, and then Charge at Pretty Boy & Skullbuster the turn after while they're stuck with Big Bertha. And she's got Indomitable herself so she could have Flatman Outwit wither Skullbuster or Pretty Boy's defenses the next turn to try for a pure 2 damage, provided Bonebreaker wouldn't screw with lines of fire. But that's something you can't account for.

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Torrent posted:

A good rule of thumb to go by is to always try to choose the battlefield that best suits your team, rather than the one that suits your opponent. With Samson and Bertha as the GLA's big attackers, you want to try to keep things in as small an arena as possible against a superior ranged team like the Reavers. My call would be to have Sampson Charge around the blocking terrain of that car, and go after the White King... not because he is the "best" target to hit, but because doing so puts Samson in the most advantageous position. The fact that he's sitting on a Regen that you don't want him to roll is just a bonus. Reduce your opponent's options, and make them play your game, rather than playing theirs.

Hmmmm! Doorman's ability will let Samson waltz right through blocking terrain - not that he necessarily needed it in this case, but it helps work out with Charge in a lot of situations, due to the speed value being cut in half, so that's good to remember. Now - the only downside is that, given enough time, White King will return to the battlefield with his special ability. This feels like stalling, so how is going after Pierce first here most advantageous to me? Just getting him away from the group of enemy dials?

quote:

Barring that, prioritize. Samson is currently clear, and Deathstrike is currently pushed, so he can Charge up on her, and push to CCE her next turn, without her getting a chance to fight back... it's just a matter of keeping him from getting shot by the others. So, Samson Charges three squares to the left, and then into that square of hindering directly in front of Deathstrike. Bertha moves into the square of hindering next to both of them, blocking off line of fire to Samson (since she is both clear, and can take a beating), and Mr. Immortal hopefully has the movement to go over and block Bonebreaker's shot, where-ever he is hiding.

So that's kind of what worried me. Samson can go after Deathstrike, but then he has 3 Reavers looking at him. He gets a +1 defense from the hindering terrain, but with 3 goons swinging away, one of them is bound to land a successful roll. And that's why I'm always sketchy about relying on Charge against a group of enemies with ranged attacks. But, your explanation makes sense: you need your girthier team members to step in and block. Kind of like how the offensive line blocks for the running back. So should I consider having an offensive line for my powerful dials that rely on Charge as their primary offensive ability?

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Sanschel posted:

Going after Bonebreaker accomplishes very little as he can simply move away to a decent sniping position for the subsequent turn, leaving Samson open for that KO shot from Skullbuster.

In that particular situation I'd have Samson go after Skullbuster over Bonebreaker; that 3 damage Psychic Blast will guaranteed KO Samson and he's got at least one potential theme prob from Pretty Boy to make sure it hits. Going after Skullbuster accomplishes one of two things: 1) you hit him and knock him off Running Shot & Psychic Blast and down to a 2 damage, making him worthless against your Invulnerability short of a crit hit; or 2) you miss and Skullbuster's based and your opponent either risks a 50% breakaway to Running Shot or wastes 2-3 actions taking potshots at Samson with Skullbuster, Pretty Boy, & Bonebreaker by nickle & diming him to death with their respective 3 damages (if he misses one then that means those are actions not used going after Doorman or Flatman).

Also, when Charging I would pick the spot of hindering between Deathstrike & Skullbuster and absolutely push the following turn, as after that Deathstrike will be clear and she will kill Samson. Hopefully that first strike hits Skullbuster, as then if your attack is deflected by Deathstrike's Shape Change you'd be able to wallop him hopefully for a KO; even if the Charge didn't hit him, I'd still go after her on the push to lessen her overall threat. Either way, that +1 from the hindering will mean that Pretty Boy and Bonebreaker (even Skullbuster if you miss him and he makes the breakaway) will need to roll on the high side of average to hit Samson.

Yeah. In the few games I've used Skullbuster, my opponent swings at him first. Those two abilities are hoss.

What do you mean by potential theme prob from Pretty Boy?

And the logic here makes a ton of sense to me. Looking at the layout, I can't disagree - when Deathstrike can take an action, she's going to wipe out Samson.


Volfogg posted:

And this is where you stop because everything after that is illegal since you can't give a character that was carried a Non-Free Action in the same turn. You CAN carry a character that has TAKEN a Non-Free Action though.

:psyduck: Son of a bitch. You always forget something with this game.

quote:

I (PERSONALLY) think the best possible option would have been to have Samson charge to the square in front of and between both Skullbuster and Pretty Boy. The reason for that is this. With Samson on his next to last click, he's pretty much doomed to be KO'd soon. So, you may as well send him out in a blaze of glory. Basing them both there gets you a line of sight for Flatman to use his Outwit special on both of them since neither of 'em has Stealth, and they're both below 100 Points. This means you could choose to Outwit Skullbuster's Toughness, then go in for the attack, OR charge first, and outwit his Indomitable to make your opponent question pushing him (unless they have good knowledge of his dial).

Essentially, while it seems like it'd be a good idea to try and take out Bonebreaker first, you have to realize that you opponent also has/had a Running Shot/Psychic Blast piece that could just run at and shoot Samson to death the very next turn...unless he was based or knocked off that PsyBlast (or had it countered).

Basically, you always have to weigh ALL of your choices. With my idea, you would charge into Skullbuster & Pretty Boy, basing both, and probably going with hitting Skullbuster, saving the Outwit from Flatman for whatever the attack's outcome would be. That way, if he hit, he'd take his lumps, and (looking at the dials) would lose his Running Shot and Psychic Blast. This would leave you with a choice on either outwitting Skullbuster's Indomitable or Pretty Boy's Leap/Climb to try to keep him next to Samson since he's clear. This would also force your opponent to try attacking Flatman to try and get back Skullbuster's Indomitable if he really wanted it.

Just keep in mind that Samson is essentially being thrown to the wolves in this scenario since Lady Deathstrike would clear after your opponent's turn and would just charge straight for the kill on Samson with that 11 Attack she has. Especially since Samson would either have 16 Defense if he didn't take a hit, or would get one last boost to 17 if he was hit for one damage through that Invulnerability.

Fake Edit: I mean, look above me. Everyone has their ideas on what would be best. But what it all really comes down to is what YOU think the best move would be and learning from your mistakes and successes. It's a learning experience after all, especially if you're playing with someone that's willing to talk about what potentially better moves could have happened over the course of the game. You just keep playing and trying until things click with you.

Hell, he even noticed something I forgot to take into account. Big Bertha being clear. You could also have gone with Torrent's idea of having Samson charge White King for the potential "Not Quite A KO", and have Bertha charge in front of Skullbuster and Pretty Boy, especially if you used Flatman's Outwit on Pretty Boy after charging White King with Samson to get rid of that Leap/Climb making it hard as all hell for them to break away from her Plasticity. This would leave Samson a turn to clear, and then Charge at Pretty Boy & Skullbuster the turn after while they're stuck with Big Bertha. And she's got Indomitable herself so she could have Flatman Outwit wither Skullbuster or Pretty Boy's defenses the next turn to try for a pure 2 damage, provided Bonebreaker wouldn't screw with lines of fire. But that's something you can't account for.

Interesting. Having Bertha set up Samson for a run after he (likely, we hope) takes care of White King sounds like a hell of a plan. Still, winning this game appears to be an uphill battle.

Learning this game obviously involves a ton of moving pieces (but a lot of good games do). The hardest part is trying to guess 1-3 turns ahead. Other than remembering all the rules.

Volfogg
Dec 19, 2010

Some say she was raised by sentient birds, and that test subjects replicating her equipment were horribly broken.

All we know is she's called
The Hunter


Red posted:

What do you mean by potential theme prob from Pretty Boy?

And the logic here makes a ton of sense to me. Looking at the layout, I can't disagree - when Deathstrike can take an action, she's going to wipe out Samson.

The fact that Pretty Boy is completely clear and would have a clear line of sight to the attacker in any situation except the Samson -> White King scenario.

quote:

:psyduck: Son of a bitch. You always forget something with this game.

Well, you get these things burned into your brain after awhile. It just takes time and more games.

quote:

Interesting. Having Bertha set up Samson for a run after he (likely, we hope) takes care of White King sounds like a hell of a plan. Still, winning this game appears to be an uphill battle.

Learning this game obviously involves a ton of moving pieces (but a lot of good games do). The hardest part is trying to guess 1-3 turns ahead. Other than remembering all the rules.

Yeah, it really is an uphill fight since, once Samson bites it (which he will), your only attacker left is Big Bertha, and she tops out at 2 Damage. And let's not forget the most important fact here: Lady Deathstrike was still Top Dial. She is a murder machine when properly unleashed, and she'll eat the Great Lakes Avengers alive. Big Bertha's damage ignoring special is very very useful and the only way she can survive a fight for an extended period, especially against someone like Lady Deathstrike, so it's essentially hoping to hit those 5s and 6s be it Shape Change or her layers of fat.

And again, you'll learn things in time. You don't always need to plan things out turns upon turns ahead of time, but it's always a good idea to consider what your opponent may/can/will do in response to any/all of your moves. The good old Risk/Reward Ratio and such.

Waffles Inc.
Jan 20, 2005

Y'all see these yet?




Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Volfogg posted:

And again, you'll learn things in time. You don't always need to plan things out turns upon turns ahead of time, but it's always a good idea to consider what your opponent may/can/will do in response to any/all of your moves. The good old Risk/Reward Ratio and such.

I dig the feedback.

Would you guys enjoy it if I laid out a few more such scenarios?

ManiacClown
May 30, 2002

Gone, gone, O honky man,
And rise the M.C. Etrigan!

Go for it, man. It'll help other new guys learn. See if you can maybe manage to get higher-angle shots, though. It'd be easier for us to see.

Torrent
Apr 18, 2003
" . . . "

Red posted:

Would you guys enjoy it if I laid out a few more such scenarios?

It was interesting... I wouldn't mind talking over more.

Going after Pierce with Samson as I described was indeed more about being defensive with Samson than any offensive gain on White King.

'Theme team probability' means that, as a named theme team, the Reavers have a special pool of Probability Control uses that they can dip into. If all the characters on your team share a named keyword (IE, something you would capitalize in a sentence... 'Reavers,' but not 'animal'), and you have at least two characters to start with, you get a number of theme team PCs equal to the number of characters on your force, up to a maximum of 1 per 100 points of the build total. While using a theme PC calls for you to put an action token on the character doing it, it does not count against available actions, or even count AS an action, so you can act after using one (but, due to how action tokens work, you cannot use one after being given a non-free action). So, in this situation, Pretty Boy could have been given a token to let Skullbuster re-roll, if he had missed.

Having an 'offensive line,' as you put it, is certainly helpful when your main attacker is a close combat piece. HeroClix is a game of priorities... when you are looking at your team, you need to know what characters you are willing to risk or sacrifice to protect others. There are a whole bunch of characters whose entire purpose is to run up and keep threats busy so that the damage dealers on your team can do other things. Big Bertha is a perfect example of that... she has Plasticity to make escaping her difficult, and, although she's pretty easy to hit, she only takes 1 damage, so she's going to keep someone busy for a long time. For characters like her, just ask yourself "who do I not want to have to deal with yet," and throw her at them.

Waffles Inc.
Jan 20, 2005

Red posted:

I dig the feedback.

Would you guys enjoy it if I laid out a few more such scenarios?

Do it!

Here's an ethos that will supersede individual scenarios though, just to chime in:

Always push. You'll be amazed at how many people don't plan for a push. The number of games I've won because someone positions thinking a one-token non-willpower fig won't take an action is astonishing.

Heroclix is a game of strategy, for sure. And in addition to strategy, luck plays a huge part. To me, the thing that tips the scales slightly in favour of strategy is one's desire to be bold.

I'm not saying overextend, but don't be afraid of doing unexpected things. The mental advantage of being unpredictable to your opponent while they're on the back foot is immense.

Sanschel
Aug 9, 2002

Waffles Inc. posted:

Do it!

Here's an ethos that will supersede individual scenarios though, just to chime in:

Always push. You'll be amazed at how many people don't plan for a push. The number of games I've won because someone positions thinking a one-token non-willpower fig won't take an action is astonishing.

Heroclix is a game of strategy, for sure. And in addition to strategy, luck plays a huge part. To me, the thing that tips the scales slightly in favour of strategy is one's desire to be bold.

I'm not saying overextend, but don't be afraid of doing unexpected things. The mental advantage of being unpredictable to your opponent while they're on the back foot is immense.

Truth, and it applies to more than just pushing. Case in point: today a friend and I were bored so we went to the store and had a 1-on-1 sealed. I had WatX Cyclops, who'd been walloped down to his Running Shot/Pulse Wave clicks, and he had a bunch of Hammer Industries figures using the ATA. Our teams were all bunched up and I couldn't get off a single-target PW, but I could hit everybody on his team at the expense of two of my own, which I did. It was worth it, as his figures all lost their keywords for the turn and thus access to the ATA thanks to Cyke's damage power, and the figures of mine who took damage (Cyber & Mirage) both bumped to their mid-dial stat spikes and wrecked house as follow-ups. He didn't think I'd Pulse Wave my own team otherwise he'd have finished off Cyke sooner, and it cost him the game.

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

ManiacClown posted:

Go for it, man. It'll help other new guys learn. See if you can maybe manage to get higher-angle shots, though. It'd be easier for us to see.

All right, will do. :)

Sanschel posted:

2. The few times I've done painting I've gone to Games Workshop. Their paint's probably a little more expensive but they have a huge range of colors that work well with superhero costumes and mix well together. I've just got a tiny little brush since I use it almost exclusively for infrequent wet brush touch-up.

So my local shop carries Games Workshop paints, and one of the guys who works there picked out a color, and sold me a detailing brush. Both paint and brush are Citadel, and the shade is Ulthuan Grey. The color match is spot on, and it literally took half a second. Thank you so much for the advice!

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.
Okay, so here's our second scenario:



You're fielding an Avengers team, consisting of:

- CATWS 001 - Captain America
- AVX 007 - Black Panther
- FI 109 - Black Widow
- TabApp Iron Man
- Infinity Challenge token Jarvis



The Avengers ATA only costs you 2 points a character, so you fit into this game's 500 point build, and give each clix the Avengers ATA.

Your opponent has:

- FI 033 - Angrir
- IIM 048 - Count Nefaria

What's your first move?

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Red posted:

What's your first move?
I'm going to call the topmost square of the map A1 and count across and down, just so I can refer to other squares easier.

Move Black Panther up to C8 and outwit Nefaria's hypersonic speed. Iron Man takes a running shot to E5, planting him in hindering terrain and giving him a clear line of fire to Angrir. Use theme team probs to make sure I hit, starting with Widow and then going to Cap if necessary. Iron Man outwit's Angrir's super strength. If Cap didn't take an action to TTPC, move Cap up to D4. Next turn, Iron Man's in place to outwit Angrir's toughness and Black Panther can give him Willpower. Iron Man and Cap take out Angrir, then the whole team gangs up on Nefaria. You might have to take a single punch from Angrir, but otherwise it's smooth sailing.

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

CapnAndy posted:

I'm going to call the topmost square of the map A1 and count across and down, just so I can refer to other squares easier.

Move Black Panther up to C8 and outwit Nefaria's hypersonic speed. Iron Man takes a running shot to E5, planting him in hindering terrain and giving him a clear line of fire to Angrir. Use theme team probs to make sure I hit, starting with Widow and then going to Cap if necessary. Iron Man outwit's Angrir's super strength. If Cap didn't take an action to TTPC, move Cap up to D4. Next turn, Iron Man's in place to outwit Angrir's toughness and Black Panther can give him Willpower. Iron Man and Cap take out Angrir, then the whole team gangs up on Nefaria. You might have to take a single punch from Angrir, but otherwise it's smooth sailing.

All right, so in our first turn, we've outwitted Nefaria's Hypersonic Speed, and Iron Man successfully rolled a 7 to land a hit on Angrir, doing 2 clicks of damage. Cap moved up to stand near Iron Man, using a heavy object as cover from Angrir.



Does that look right? I assumed ABC was the x-axis, and 1234 is your y-axis.

So:

Q: No actions for Black Widow this turn? The Outwit ability doesn't count towards your 5 actions, nor does it push Iron Man or Black Panther. Right?
Q: Black Panther should attempt to use Leadership, if for no other reason than to roll a 6 to get his token removed, right?
Q: Why do you outwit Angrir's Super Strength this turn instead of his Invulnerability?
Q: Aren't you watching the new Game of Thrones episode?

ManiacClown
May 30, 2002

Gone, gone, O honky man,
And rise the M.C. Etrigan!

CapnAndy posted:

If Cap didn't take an action to TTPC, move Cap up to D4.

Even if Cap used TTPC, he wouldn't "take" an action to do it. He'd receive an action token. TTPC isn't an action any more than a standard use is.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Red posted:



Does that look right? I assumed ABC was the x-axis, and 1234 is your y-axis.
Yup, that's right.

quote:

Q: No actions for Black Widow this turn? The Outwit ability doesn't count towards your 5 actions, nor does it push Iron Man or Black Panther. Right?
No actions for Black Widow because I didn't need her this turn and was banking on needing the TTPC. You can move her to D7 if you want, to be in charge range of Angrir or Nefaria next turn. Outwit is a free action, so it doesn't count towards the 5 actions nor push Iron Man or Black Panther, no.

quote:

Q: Black Panther should attempt to use Leadership, if for no other reason than to roll a 6 to get his token removed, right?
Next turn, sure. Leadership only works at the start of the turn.

quote:

Q: Why do you outwit Angrir's Super Strength this turn instead of his Invulnerability?
Couldn't outwit it before the running shot, didn't need to outwit it afterwards. I took away the super strength because I can't take away his charge or steal energy, and at least now he can't grab that very tempting heavy object that's right in the path of his probable charge.

quote:

Q: Aren't you watching the new Game of Thrones episode?
DVR, son.

ManiacClown posted:

Even if Cap used TTPC, he wouldn't "take" an action to do it. He'd receive an action token. TTPC isn't an action any more than a standard use is.
Yes, yes. The bottom line was I wasn't in a mood to push him just to get him in position to tank a charge from Angrir.

CapnAndy fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Apr 21, 2014

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

CapnAndy posted:

You can move her to D7 if you want, to be in charge range of Angrir or Nefaria next turn.

All righty. Cap, Shellhead, and Widow look to have Angrir surrounded, while Panther is staring down Nefaria. Jarvis is just hanging out.

quote:

Next turn, sure. Leadership only works at the start of the turn.

Right, but why couldn't you start this turn with a leadership roll for that extra action, then roll for a 6 at the end to have a token removed from Panther?

Edit: Why can't you outwit Angrir's special abilities? In this case specifically, Charge?

Volfogg
Dec 19, 2010

Some say she was raised by sentient birds, and that test subjects replicating her equipment were horribly broken.

All we know is she's called
The Hunter


Red posted:

Right, but why couldn't you start this turn with a leadership roll for that extra action, then roll for a 6 at the end to have a token removed from Panther?

Edit: Why can't you outwit Angrir's special abilities? In this case specifically, Charge?

The Leadership roll's token removal only applies to the start of the turn, and the Heroic Age ATA is still only a chance of removing a token, and that only happens immediately after making the Move Action. Essentially, with the number of characters on your force, you don't need to actually use your Leadership rolls unless you want to remove the Action Token at the start of the turn. Having a 6th Action in your Action Pool doesn't really mean anything if you only have 5 Characters in the first place.

You can't Outwit Angrir's Charge because it's part of his Trait. You can't outwit Traits.

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Volfogg posted:

The Leadership roll's token removal only applies to the start of the turn, and the Heroic Age ATA is still only a chance of removing a token, and that only happens immediately after making the Move Action. Essentially, with the number of characters on your force, you don't need to actually use your Leadership rolls unless you want to remove the Action Token at the start of the turn. Having a 6th Action in your Action Pool doesn't really mean anything if you only have 5 Characters in the first place.

But Panther's trait allows him to make the token-removing roll separate from the ATA.

quote:

You can't Outwit Angrir's Charge because it's part of his Trait. You can't outwit Traits.

Aha!

Volfogg
Dec 19, 2010

Some say she was raised by sentient birds, and that test subjects replicating her equipment were horribly broken.

All we know is she's called
The Hunter


Red posted:

But Panther's trait allows him to make the token-removing roll separate from the ATA.

Let's take a look at Black Panther's Special.

King of Wakanda posted:

Black Panther can use Empower, Leadership, and Outwit. When he uses Leadership and the result is 6, in addition to the normal effects he may remove an action token from himself.

Note how the removal only applies when he uses Leadership,. You can only use Leadership as a Free Action at the beginning of your turn. So, you can't roll a 6 for his Leadership and "reserve" the Token Removal until the end of your turn. The token removal ONLY happens when Leadership is resolving at the beginning of your turn.

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Volfogg posted:

Let's take a look at Black Panther's Special.


Note how the removal only applies when he uses Leadership,. You can only use Leadership as a Free Action at the beginning of your turn. So, you can't roll a 6 for his Leadership and "reserve" the Token Removal until the end of your turn. The token removal ONLY happens when Leadership is resolving at the beginning of your turn.

Ahhhhhhh, I see. That ability makes a lot more sense, then.

Torrent
Apr 18, 2003
" . . . "
Just chiming in for the Outwitting of traits. While it is true that you cannot straight-up counter a trait, on rare occasions you can counter a power granted by a trait. Be sure to check the wording... most traits say that someone "can use" a power, which means it's not up for Outwitting. However, if a trait says that someone "has" or "possesses" something, then it can be Outwitted. Far more frequently, you will see the "has" in conjunction with a combat symbol in traits, rather than with powers, but many combat symbols can also be Outwitted.

For example: the Hawkeye & Mockingbird duo figure have a trait which says that they "can use" the Sharpshooter ability. Nothing to Outwit there. However, the Batman & Green Arrow duo figure have a trait which says that they "possess" the Sharpshooter ability, so their Sharpshooter can be countered.

Also, for the scenario in question, keep in mind that First Turn Immunity is a thing. Both sides would've had to pass, in order for the game to open up with those attacks and Outwits.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Torrent posted:

Also, for the scenario in question, keep in mind that First Turn Immunity is a thing. Both sides would've had to pass, in order for the game to open up with those attacks and Outwits.
Given the grossly pared down playing field and how both sides were spread out a ridiculous distance from each other, no way were those teams set up in any rational starting area. Therefore they're not in their starting areas, therefore it's not turn 1.

Morand
Apr 16, 2004

1: Start New Game
2: Start New Game
3: Start New Game


:aaa:

Volfogg posted:

You can't Outwit Angrir's Charge because it's part of his Trait. You can't outwit Traits.

90% of the time this works and is ok but to get particularly nitpicky you can't outwit his trait things because he CAN USE them and outwit only works on powers he possesses. If his trait said something like has or possesses then you could outwit them.

This doesn't change any options you have but it's better to know why you can't outwit a thing rather then a blanket you can't outwit traits because that is not always true.

Sanschel
Aug 9, 2002

Speed Demon & Whizzer are up: http://heroclix.com/heroclix/preview/marvel-heroclix-deadpool-speed-demon-whizzer/#axzz2zXN9Yfxh

Speed demon is a good HSS piece that fills out a number of teams, especially some that were lacking decent move and attack. His Trait is super wordy but basically gives him a free chance to push somebody around the map for damage if he literally runs a circle around them, not too shabby. Whizzer is an awesome piece that both adds a fifth member to the woefully underrepresented Squadron Supreme, and will double their already high cumulative value next to Hyperion.

Edit: wait you can't run Whizzer and Hyperion on the same team cause they're both Prime. gently caress you WizKids :mad:

Flash set announced for October: http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505008

Happy to see a Rogues FF, even if it's Nu52. The OP kit only has three copies of one object so I guess the weekly OP kits are starting with this set. The Golden Age Worlds Champ's Harley Quinn is shown; I'm all for the champs getting their likeness on sculpts but it's starting to get ridiculous. Morand please tell me you won't be getting a lap dance from Shriek.

Sanschel fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Apr 21, 2014

thebardyspoon
Jun 30, 2005
Eh, that Quinn sculpt isn't anywhere near as bad as the fan inclusion on the Stargirl one. Really glad they're making a Flash set but bummed that the JSA aren't a subtheme and that most of the rogues are going to be NU52 style the second time they're made in 10 years.

Eckertmania
May 11, 2007

"'Hey, a computer took your place, daddy.' That's hard times! That's hard times!"

thebardyspoon posted:

Eh, that Quinn sculpt isn't anywhere near as bad as the fan inclusion on the Stargirl one. Really glad they're making a Flash set but bummed that the JSA aren't a subtheme and that most of the rogues are going to be NU52 style the second time they're made in 10 years.

Well, with the sculpts, I know I'm going to be tearing the old sculpts off and putting them on the new dials.

Mugendai
Oct 23, 2002

You realize, of
course, that that
will not kill him
After seeing Harley Quinn I kinda want to win worlds and choose Hercules and do the exact same sculpt as Harley Quinn just to see people's heads explode.

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.

Mugendai posted:

After seeing Harley Quinn I kinda want to win worlds and choose Hercules and do the exact same sculpt as Harley Quinn just to see people's heads explode.

I support your endeavor, and hope more will join your cause.

Fritzler
Sep 5, 2007


Hey guys, I need help with a build. Our May events just got published, and we have this:

05/24/2014
FACTORY SET VICTORY DRAFT
600 Points Modern Age: At least 50% of your team MUST include pieces from the Fear Itself set. (The Fear Itself factory set is the prize for this event. The set will be dispersed via draft style with 1st place choosing one from every rarity to start the draft off. NOTE: the full book is considered one piece for draft purposes.)

No Feats Allowed/ No B.F.C. Allowed/ Yes Resources Allowed

It's at the end of the month, but I need to start thinking about it because I started playing AFTER Fear Itself. I was thinking of trying to borrow/ebay/trade for FI Odin, and running:

FI Odin
Skadi's Warbot
Damaged Warbot
2 full stacks of 7 - Rocket Warbot

Comes out to 600 exactly, and I can print&play half of the team. I have literally nothing from FI, so I wanted help with this early so I can try to get pieces. Anyone else have any bright ideas? I'll try to get an idea this weekend what all I can borrow from people, but I would like to do well in this, and hopefully get some cool FI pieces that I don't have (a full BotS would be cool, as would a lot of other things in that set).

Other ideas: buy a mighty scenario pack (not too expensive), and try to get a full BotS borrowed (or buy that too), and run some sort of Stark Industries team with Splitlip and that Iron Man.

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

CapnAndy posted:

Given the grossly pared down playing field and how both sides were spread out a ridiculous distance from each other, no way were those teams set up in any rational starting area. Therefore they're not in their starting areas, therefore it's not turn 1.

Yeahhhh, I should've said screw the first turn stuff in favor of a smaller map. I thought it'd be easier to get a (crappy) picture of a small map.

Anyhow.



Your opponent used Angrir to Charge Black Widow, but the roll failed. Yay!

Then, your opponent scooted Count Nefaria 3 squares, and picked up a heavy object.

His turn is over, and he chose not to push either Angrir or Nefaria. Now what?

Koalas March
May 21, 2007



So I bought a brick of Teen Titans. Got the JL teambase (awesome!! Got everyone for it except for Flash) and Blackfire but.. She's missing an arm. Like there's a nubbin where it's supposed to be. I am a little bummed out. :(

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Red posted:



Your opponent used Angrir to Charge Black Widow, but the roll failed. Yay!

Then, your opponent scooted Count Nefaria 3 squares, and picked up a heavy object.

His turn is over, and he chose not to push either Angrir or Nefaria. Now what?
Black Panther makes his Leadership roll. If it succeeds and takes a token off of Widow, great. If it also takes a token off himself, super-great. Panther gives Iron Man willpower.

Iron Man outwits Angrir's toughness and shoots him. If he misses, use Widow to TTPC again, but 11 on a 17's pretty hittable.

Captain America follows up on Angrir, whose toughness is still outwitted. Angrir gets KO'd.

If she didn't TTPC, Widow charges Nefaria and uses Mighty Stingers without outwitting his Invincible. If you roll a 1-3, he'll either take 0 or 1 clicks and you won't power him up. Roll a 4-6 and the action token will push him, which neutralizes him for next turn. Use your charge to position Widow to one side or the other of Nefaria; it'll be important next turn for Iron Man to have a clear line of fire to him.

If you rolled a 1-3, outwit Nefaria's super strength with Black Panther, if you rolled a 4-6 outwit whatever you want just for laughs. Panther clears.

CapnAndy fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Apr 21, 2014

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

CapnAndy posted:

Black Panther makes his Leadership roll. If it succeeds and takes a token off of Widow, great. If it also takes a token off himself, super-great. Panther gives Iron Man willpower.

You rolled a 3. No dice. Do you spend a TTPC on that roll, or definitely save it for the roll for the attack on Angrir?

Giving Iron Man Willpower seems like the best pick in the group.

You previously Outwitted Angrir's super strength, but this turn, you're using Iron Man's Outwit against Angrir's Toughness. Correct?

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CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Red posted:

You rolled a 3. No dice. Do you spend a TTPC on that roll, or definitely save it for the roll for the attack on Angrir?

Giving Iron Man Willpower seems like the best pick in the group.

You previously Outwitted Angrir's super strength, but this turn, you're using Iron Man's Outwit against Angrir's Toughness. Correct?
I definitely save the TTPC for the attacks on Angrir, and that's correct.

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