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menino posted:I love how the Koreans insist on both the Yellow and Japan as "West Sea" and "East Sea" respectively. Good idea getting people on your side by insisting on having your particular geographic orientation as the determining factor. East China Sea is also the South Sea. You can use these to judge levels of nationalist craziness. Insisting on East Sea in English is normal level. Adding in West Sea bumps you up to somewhat nutty. Toss in South Sea and you're all the way there. I hate that it's in the English books. Nobody will have any idea what the gently caress you're talking about if you call the Sea of Japan the East Sea in English. Things have different names in different languages, that's how languages work. When I speak Korean, I call it the East Sea because that's the Korean name. In English it's the Sea of Japan.
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Apr 21, 2014 15:26
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Grand Fromage posted:East China Sea is also the South Sea. South Sea is very famous.
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Apr 21, 2014 15:27
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 The Baltic Sea (most languages)  The Western Sea (Estonian)  The Eastern Sea (All German languages, except English.) Finns also call it the Eastern Sea, because Finland was so long part of Sweden. Though Finns call the Gulf of Bothnia "North's Gulf" unlike others. Romans called it the Suebic or the Germanic sea. I don't know any Korean level crazy groups who want other countries to change the name they use. Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Apr 21, 2014 |
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Apr 21, 2014 15:29
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The names in Korean totally make sense, nobody's arguing that. It's trying to insist every other language use your names because Korea is best and gently caress Japan that is the nonsense. Interesting that it's Eastern Sea in Finnish. I bet that's confused some kids on geography tests.
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Apr 21, 2014 15:34
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made of bees posted:I think I've heard that Japan opposes Korean reunification more than China at this point, but that could be for reasons other than just blind nationalist hatred. China doesn't really oppose Korean reunification anymore so yeah probably. Modern Day Hercules posted:A unified Korea would not rival Japan. Korea has never not played third fiddle to Japan for as long as there has been a japan. Even if both Koreas had the GDP of South Korea, and then there were 2 more Koreas on top with the same, it wouldn't match Japan. It's not going to be any sort of credible threat to Japan. Your first point is pretty much the entire picture. They already don't like dealing with the refugees from the "good" Korea, can't imagine they'd like the idea of tens of millions of starving rear end north koreans running wild in the area. This has only really been true since the Meiji restoration; Japan was stronger than Korea for a long time but not totally indisputably so. And keep in mind, GDP isn't the best measure. Japan's economy is gonna be spiraling into its own rear end in a top hat at world record speeds any day now. Korea is only slightly screwed by the future.
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Apr 21, 2014 15:53
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Kassad posted:It's worth noting that this would probably take the better part of a century in the best possible scenario. It's been 25 years since the reunification of Germany and the east is still quite a bit poorer than the west. And West Germany was much wealthier at the time than South Korea is in comparison to North Korea. Nor was East Germany nearly as hosed up as North Korea. The scale of Korean unification would dwarf the German experience. The DDR lagged and continues to lag the old BRD, but in 1990, it was an industrialized country with an educated population that wasn't starving. Most South Koreans oppose immediate reunification. They are newly rich, and their standard of living would take a massive hit to bring the Norks into the 21st century.
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Apr 21, 2014 15:57
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TheImmigrant posted:The scale of Korean unification would dwarf the German experience. The DDR lagged and continues to lag the old BRD, but in 1990, it was an industrialized country with an educated population that wasn't starving. Most South Koreans oppose immediate reunification. They are newly rich, and their standard of living would take a massive hit to bring the Norks into the 21st century.
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Apr 21, 2014 16:39
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menino posted:I love how the Koreans insist on both the Yellow and Japan as "West Sea" and "East Sea" respectively. Good idea getting people on your side by insisting on having your particular geographic orientation as the determining factor. Somebody should stand up and propose to end the feud by just calling it "the other strait of Dover". But I guess some people just love being angry.
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Apr 21, 2014 16:43
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I find it hard to imagine how it would be for an average North Korean worker class person to find out that all that propaganda about the rest of the world being evil is fake, and suddenly having a whole bunch of unprecedented freedom. There's the case of the dude who was born in a North Korean concentration camp, managed to escape and ended up in South Korea. He said that for him, 'freedom' is being able to eat chicken. That guy probably needed quite some time to get used to his new life. If something similar were to happen to the entire country, I think it would take a long time of slow changes to prevent chaos. But then again, I wouldn't want to wait too long before improving the quality of their lives. Has there ever been any country with the absurdity of its propaganda comparable to modern North Korea? It seems to be what you get if you combine Soviet Union cold war propaganda with Korean nationalism, turned up to eleven.
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Apr 21, 2014 16:48
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Carbon dioxide posted:I find it hard to imagine how it would be for an average North Korean worker class person to find out that all that propaganda about the rest of the world being evil is fake, and suddenly having a whole bunch of unprecedented freedom. I only know one North Korean refugee, he said it was like he had landed on an alien planet. It wouldn't be quite as shocking as it used to be. People in NK these days are generally aware that NK sucks, and a lot of material from the south has made its way up there so people have seen pictures of Seoul and SK TV and whatnot. It's still a leap from that to actually being in an apartment and having fried chicken delivered to your door. Of course, the other side of things is that North Koreans are treated like dirt here. Women have an easier time, guys are hosed. He actually regretted leaving the north and coming here, and was learning English because he wanted to move to Canada and never see another Korean for the rest of his life.
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Apr 21, 2014 16:56
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Grand Fromage posted:Of course, the other side of things is that North Koreans are treated like dirt here. Women have an easier time, guys are hosed. He actually regretted leaving the north and coming here, and was learning English because he wanted to move to Canada and never see another Korean for the rest of his life.
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Apr 21, 2014 17:02
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There was a book I read, Nothing to Envy by Barbara Demick, where she'd interviewed North Korean refugees. One of them, who'd been a university student, said that one picture in one of his textbooks showed a striking South Korean worker, intended to demonstrate the oppression of the working class in capitalist countries, but what struck him about the picture was that the worker had a zipper on his jacket and a fountain pen in his pocket, both of which were extreme luxuries in North Korea.
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Apr 21, 2014 17:08
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Yeah, the hostile reaction of South Koreans, plus the extreme culture shock, seems like a great reason to take your time with the integration of North Korea. Especially if most North Koreans would be satisfied with having food, clothes and shelter initially. The last government plan I saw talked about a 50 year process. The North would remain its own country more or less, but under the Seoul government. North Koreans wouldn't be allowed to cross the border while South Korean business and the North Korean government, under Seoul direction, would develop the country. Gradually as things improved there'd be more integration, the North's government would be stripped away, and eventually full unification. The chaebols are all for it. Hyundai loves their factory complex in Kaesong. The North Korean workers are happy, they get treated much better by the SK bosses and paid like five times the average wage in the North. And Hyundai's happy because five times the average wage in the North is still peanuts compared to what they pay South Koreans.
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Apr 21, 2014 17:09
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Grand Fromage posted:The last government plan I saw talked about a 50 year process. The North would remain its own country more or less, but under the Seoul government. North Koreans wouldn't be allowed to cross the border while South Korean business and the North Korean government, under Seoul direction, would develop the country. Gradually as things improved there'd be more integration, the North's government would be stripped away, and eventually full unification.
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Apr 21, 2014 17:24
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Grand Fromage posted:Interesting that it's Eastern Sea in Finnish. I bet that's confused some kids on geography tests. Not really; you don't clock that the name is derived from the Swedish perspective because you hear it all the time. Particularly when it's a compound, "Eastsea". It's just a name.
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Apr 21, 2014 17:40
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Grand Fromage posted:I only know one North Korean refugee, he said it was like he had landed on an alien planet. It wouldn't be quite as shocking as it used to be. People in NK these days are generally aware that NK sucks, and a lot of material from the south has made its way up there so people have seen pictures of Seoul and SK TV and whatnot. It's still a leap from that to actually being in an apartment and having fried chicken delivered to your door. I met a few Norks in Seoul. Depending on their degree of integration, they'd either be terrified of me (an American), or extremely curious. Knowing what you know of RoK business ethics, can you imagine how they'd exploit the Norms for labor if the chaebols had full access?
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Apr 21, 2014 17:51
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While we're discussing different names for same regions.
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Apr 21, 2014 17:51
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TheImmigrant posted:Knowing what you know of RoK business ethics, can you imagine how they'd exploit the Norms for labor if the chaebols had full access? That's why the chaebols are all for the plan. Decades of near slave labor, and they would look like good guys while exploiting the poo poo out of the workers! And with the absurd level of control over the South Korean government that the chaebols have, they might be able to drag it out even longer. Having seen how badly people here are exploited by their employers, I can't even imagine what they'd do to North Koreans. And anything they did do would likely still be better than what the North Koreans have now, so they wouldn't even complain about it. Workers that are both exploited and happy, the dream of everyone with a monocle.
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Apr 21, 2014 17:56
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TheImmigrant posted:norks Is it really so hard to type out North Koreans? You're talking about people, dude.
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Apr 21, 2014 17:57
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Koramei posted:Is it really so hard to type out North Koreans? You're talking about people, dude. Pretty common slang, like yank or limey or kraut. Do you spend your days devising new ways to be offended?
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Apr 21, 2014 18:07
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TheImmigrant posted:Pretty common slang, like yank or limey or kraut. It's not really different from saying Japs or Pakis. Edit: I just don't feel like Nork carries the same meaning of "friendly rivalry" that yanks and limey carry. Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Apr 21, 2014 |
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Apr 21, 2014 18:20
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Kurtofan posted:It's not really different from saying Japs or Pakis. Is it acceptable to use nicknames in place of a boring demonym?
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Apr 21, 2014 18:23
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TheImmigrant posted:Pretty common slang, like yank or limey or kraut. Can't speak for the other two, but I feel the Krauts wouldn't appreciate being called as such in this day and age.
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Apr 21, 2014 18:23
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TheImmigrant posted:Do you spend your days devising new ways to be offended? TheImmigrant posted:Is it acceptable to use nicknames in place of a boring demonym? Ahahaha, they're too "boring" for you? gently caress off
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Apr 21, 2014 18:28
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TheImmigrant posted:Pretty common slang, like yank or limey or kraut. Those are all pretty archaic, yet still offensive. Seriously, try calling a german person that isn't your friend a kraut. Only reason yank doesn't bother anybody because we know who the top dog is.
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Apr 21, 2014 18:28
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If anyone can demonstrate that "Nork" is offensive to anyone other than professionally-offended spergie warriors, I'll stop using it. Then we can combine our efforts to Smash Racism! by ending the use of terms like "seppo" and "whinging pom" with reducation camps for offenders.
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Apr 21, 2014 18:31
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Modern Day Hercules posted:Those are all pretty archaic, yet still offensive. Seriously, try calling a german person that isn't your friend a kraut. Only reason yank doesn't bother anybody because we know who the top dog is. I've met a few Merkels before, they're basically like the worst parts of American tourists but skinnier.
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Apr 21, 2014 18:31
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TheImmigrant posted:If anyone can demonstrate that "Nork" is offensive to anyone other than professionally-offended spergie warriors, I'll stop using it. Then we can combine our efforts to Smash Racism! by ending the use of terms like "seppo" and "whinging pom" with reducation camps for offenders. 
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Apr 21, 2014 18:40
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Modern Day Hercules posted:Those are all pretty archaic, yet still offensive. Seriously, try calling a german person that isn't your friend a kraut. Only reason yank doesn't bother anybody because we know who the top dog is. Yank is a funny term. Above the Mason-Dixon it means someone from New England (despite the baseball team bearing that name being in New York, close to but not IN New England) and it carries basically no derogatory connotation. South of the line it is a pejorative for someone from outside the south (seriously I've heard southerners refer to Californians as Yankees, its just a catchall term for non-southerner). To everyone outside America it means any American and can carry a derogatory connotation, but doesn't necessarily. e; Bit of advice for travellers to the US, don't call a southerner a Yank. People like me would see that you just meant American, others aren't so forgiving. oldswitcheroo fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Apr 21, 2014 |
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Apr 21, 2014 18:41
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I think this is the first time my ideas on how to something major like this is pretty much the official plan. Seems wrong somehow. If it makes you feel better, it's not going to happen (that way, at least). Far too reasonable and incremental.
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Apr 21, 2014 18:47
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quote:Noun[edit] http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Nork  Might have been edited in by a professionally-offended spergie warrior though. And here's a very intelligent debate about the word on the Straight Dope forums. For what it's worth, when you called specific, random-rear end North Koreans Norks it struck me as weird because I've only ever seen it in contexts like "when the Norks come at us they better not miss  ".
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Apr 21, 2014 18:50
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oldswitcheroo posted:e; Bit of advice for travellers to the US, don't call a southerner a Yank. People like me would see that you just meant American, others aren't so forgiving.
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Apr 21, 2014 18:52
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:I shall refer to The South always and forever as The Traitor States, but that doesn't lend itself to a good demonym. "Redneck".
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Apr 21, 2014 18:53
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References provided in the said page are top notch.
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Apr 21, 2014 18:59
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mdemone posted:If it makes you feel better, it's not going to happen (that way, at least). Far too reasonable and incremental. PittTheElder posted:I shall refer to The South always and forever as The Traitor States, but that doesn't lend itself to a good demonym.
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Apr 21, 2014 19:05
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Nah, the current types who celebrate the South aren't traitors themselves, you gotta be more subtle about it.
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Apr 21, 2014 19:14
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What is even the etymology of "Nork"? The best I can find is it was made up as a fake slur ala "gook" for the notably lovely video game Homefront. That and it means titties in Australian.
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Apr 21, 2014 19:22
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Dusseldorf posted:What is even the etymology of "Nork"? The best I can find is it was made up as a fake slur ala "gook" for the notably lovely video game Homefront. That and it means titties in Australian. North Korean, probably?
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Apr 21, 2014 19:24
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Dusseldorf posted:What is even the etymology of "Nork"? The best I can find is it was made up as a fake slur ala "gook" for the notably lovely video game Homefront. That and it means titties in Australian. Nor(th)K(orean), probably. Obviously racist-kaputalist propaganda.
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Apr 21, 2014 19:27
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TheImmigrant posted:Nor(th)K(orean), probably. Obviously racist-kaputalist propaganda. Remember the GIP poster who argued for pages why using "hadjis" was cool because everyone was using it?
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Apr 21, 2014 19:30
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