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EoRaptor posted:The most straightforward way to accomplishing this is to ban the sale of any residential zoned property that isn't fit for residence. Either the property can be renovated pre-sale (and must be inspected), in which the seller will do a minimum job. OR the property can be demolished and we essentially start from nothing.
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# ? Apr 21, 2014 19:16 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 17:31 |
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The way I see it, there's two main causes for the bubble: -Realtor and financial propaganda that a house/condo is an amazing investment and you're pretty much guaranteed to make money selling it, so no matter how much it costs, you'll get more back later so buy buy buy. -Way too much credit available and risk backed by the government. Take these two things together and you get a ridiculous bubble. So what if I only make 60k a year combined, the banks and government say I can get a 500k mortgage and that house will be worth 700k by the time I pay it off so why not??? Kill easy access to insane levels of debt and get the government the gently caress out of insuring it plus hold REALTORS to the same standards regarding promised gains and performance as the financial sector so they can't just say prices are going to double again in 10 years.
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# ? Apr 21, 2014 20:35 |
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Anyone else have to sit through a "get in now or you'll never be able to" real estate pitch from family over Easter dinner? Things I learned: - Now is the best time to buy, because - you'll never be able to earn as fast as real estate values go up, and - prices will go up, forever. A well-meaning uncle was trying to talk me into buying a $350k condo (1 bedroom, tiny shitboxes) before I was priced out of the area, which, given the demographics, is absurd. It was really hard to stay diplomatic on this one, but I managed and said some non-committal things. He told me I'd be sorry in a few years if I didn't, because they'd be worth half a million. This was followed by a brief conversation about how much money everyone had made on their (unsold) houses, until finally the topic changed and I didn't have to fight the urge to start screaming incoherently and pulling my hair out. Wasting fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Apr 21, 2014 |
# ? Apr 21, 2014 21:53 |
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Wasting posted:Anyone else have to sit through a "get in now or you'll never be able to" real estate pitch from family over Easter dinner? The worst part of that is people that attribute their unrealized gains on their houses to what the condo market is doing. Anyone that thinks condos are appreciating such that you cannot afford them later, really isn't paying much attention (probably since they're for proles, not ubermensch like homeowners) to the condo market.
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# ? Apr 21, 2014 22:11 |
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It's demonstrative of how people tend to only see what they want to see. I'd love an American's take on our disaster-in-waiting.
Wasting fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Apr 21, 2014 |
# ? Apr 21, 2014 22:30 |
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Soon no one will be able to afford condos
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# ? Apr 21, 2014 23:12 |
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Wasting posted:It's demonstrative of how people tend to only see what they want to see. I'd love an American's take on our disaster-in-waiting. As an American living in Canada, my plan is to get a yurt.
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# ? Apr 21, 2014 23:29 |
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Wasting posted:It's demonstrative of how people tend to only see what they want to see. I'd love an American's take on our disaster-in-waiting. I've had several homeowners try to tell me that the condo market is absolutely a bubble and will pop. The market on houses? Oh no, that's here to stay! In fact, it's only going up, up and up! It takes some serious mental gymnastics to justify their lovely purchases.
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# ? Apr 21, 2014 23:31 |
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Professor Shark posted:Soon no one will be able to afford condos
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# ? Apr 22, 2014 00:19 |
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When people say "no one will be able to afford X" they always mean "regular people like us". There's always a bottomless bag of rich albertans/ontarians and CHINESE INVESTORS lining up.
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# ? Apr 22, 2014 00:35 |
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Wasting posted:It's demonstrative of how people tend to only see what they want to see. I'd love an American's take on our disaster-in-waiting. As an American who married into not one, but two mortgage clusterfucks, all I can say is that the market is only going to go up, up, up!!! PS - Anyone want to buy a
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# ? Apr 22, 2014 00:52 |
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Lt. Shiny-sides posted:As an American who married into not one, but two mortgage clusterfucks, all I can say is that the market is only going to go up, up, up!!! Is there any different feeling to this Canadian brand of stupid? Our government seems to be tacitly supporting it through our CMHC. Another aspect is our realtor cartel and their "home price index," which is hard to defend as anything other than an attempt to obfuscate market data. If anyone is knowledgeable about the home price index (HPI), or has a head for math and wants to take a look at their method for calculating it, it would be interesting to learn more about. Googling "MLS HPI user guide" returns, as the first result, a pdf with their methodology and the equations used. I recall reading that MLS has been caught revising year to year data to inflate sales data further. Wasting fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Apr 22, 2014 |
# ? Apr 22, 2014 01:42 |
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Lt. Shiny-sides posted:As an American who married into not one, but two mortgage clusterfucks, all I can say is that the market is only going to go up, up, up!!! I would have expected Prince Rupert to bubble up since Kitimat isn't too far away.
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# ? Apr 22, 2014 01:59 |
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Baronjutter posted:rich ontarians I guess it's because I'm from Alberta and all I see everywhere are Ontarian migrant workers but "rich Ontarians" just sounds so bizzare to me. What the gently caress does anyone even do in Ontario, other than shoddily assembling Dodge Caravans? Surely not much since it seems like half of them are in Alberta anyway.
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# ? Apr 22, 2014 02:09 |
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Throatwarbler posted:I guess it's because I'm from Alberta and all I see everywhere are Ontarian migrant workers but "rich Ontarians" just sounds so bizzare to me. What the gently caress does anyone even do in Ontario, other than shoddily assembling Dodge Caravans? Surely not much since it seems like half of them are in Alberta anyway. Bay street?
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# ? Apr 22, 2014 02:21 |
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Throatwarbler posted:What the gently caress does anyone even do in Ontario, other than shoddily assembling Dodge Caravans? Everything? Ontario is 40% of the country's GDP, its economy is more than twice the size of Alberta's and far more diversified.
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# ? Apr 22, 2014 02:26 |
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Yeah, in my parents neighbourhood all the $800k+ houses have been bought by retired or semi-retired rich people from Ontario, or more specifically, Toronto. They're all senior financial workers or doctors or lawyers. The rich albertans rarely seem to buy in the city, they want a huge McMansion out in langford which is where all the albertan "ex pats" hang out because the horrific sprawl and big box stores reminds them of home or something.
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# ? Apr 22, 2014 02:30 |
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Wasting posted:If anyone is knowledgeable about the home price index (HPI), or has a head for math and wants to take a look at their method for calculating it, it would be interesting to learn more about. Googling "MLS HPI user guide" returns, as the first result, a pdf with their methodology and the equations used. I think there was a poster familiar with it, earlier in the thread, that indicated the methodology of the HPI filled 21 pages or so, though I don't think he had a link. Phone posting, so I don't have a link handy, but one of the many Vancouver bear blogs was trying to reverse engineer the number, and iirc found that it seemed to track an aggregated 6 month moving average.
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# ? Apr 22, 2014 02:43 |
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Wasting posted:Is there any different feeling to this Canadian brand of stupid? From what I have experienced there is a whole lot more arrogance coming from Canadians than I saw in the States or am seeing in New Zealand (they are in the same boat as Canada right now). Far too much, "We aren't dumb Americans, that won't happen here". It is really frustrating. It seemed to me folks in the States just bought into the ad hype (and didn't question at all), and Kiwis for the most part are ignorant to what occurred in 2008. Canadians I have spoke with just feel that they are special and it won't happen to them. Not to knock canucks, I like you guys so much I married one of you.
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# ? Apr 22, 2014 05:47 |
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Cultural Imperial posted:I would have expected Prince Rupert to bubble up since Kitimat isn't too far away.
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# ? Apr 22, 2014 06:38 |
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/give-yourself-a-real-estate-reality-check/article18083289/quote:
From Rob Carrick. A guy you shouldn't listen to because he's not rich and successful, as per financial real estate genius Brad Lamb.
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# ? Apr 22, 2014 06:38 |
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jot posted:I've had several homeowners try to tell me that the condo market is absolutely a bubble and will pop. The market on houses? Oh no, that's here to stay! In fact, it's only going up, up and up! It takes some serious mental gymnastics to justify their lovely purchases. I feel like condos in poo poo locations are much worse off than houses in equivalent locations, but these people are absolutely loving deluded if they think that condos in desirable locations are going to crash before houses. Idiot:"I have 1600 sq. ft. house out in the middle of buttfuck nowhere!" Me: "Wonderful. I'm going to walk home now; enjoy your $50 cab ride, because you decided to have more than one drink in a popular, interesting bar!"
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# ? Apr 22, 2014 07:20 |
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https://twitter.com/BenChu_/status/458557053384916993 There seems to be a strong correlation between housing prices and mortgage interest rates in the UK.
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# ? Apr 22, 2014 14:16 |
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Cultural Imperial posted:https://twitter.com/BenChu_/status/458557053384916993 I'm sure that's true everywhere. Seems entirely uncontroversial.
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# ? Apr 22, 2014 14:22 |
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http://m.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/04/how-did-canadas-middle-class-get-so-rich/361053/quote:America's middle class has been richest in the world for decades, but as David Leonhardt and Kevin Quealy write in theTimes' new site The Upshot, we've lost that distinction to our neighbors from the north. That kind of explains all the bmws and ducatis in my parking garage.
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# ? Apr 22, 2014 22:00 |
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LemonDrizzle posted:That's absolutely crazy, though. There are any number of plausible cases where a property may need renovation but the owner(s) would be unwilling or financially unable to do or commission any of the necessary work themselves. The problem isn't renovators doing houses up to hit the highest price the market will bear, it's that the bearable price is too drat high in the first place. You need to address the problem, not play whack-a-mole with its symptoms. I did say it was brutal. In this case, the person could take a loan against sale price, or just declare bankruptcy and walk away from the property. The main issue has been the super low interest rates. They don't make products cheaper, they just make debt cheaper. This means people can take on prodigious amounts of debt, and increase their short term buying power. That just leads to price increases, as businesses move to absorb the available cash in the market. Low mortgage rates, by themselves, don't do anything to make housing cheaper, it just makes developers richer. Policy, not price, is a better way to control housing. EoRaptor fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Apr 23, 2014 |
# ? Apr 23, 2014 19:11 |
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EoRaptor posted:I did say it was brutal. In this case, the person could take a loan against sale price, or just declare bankruptcy and walk away from the property. But yes, the core problem is a society that encourages debt. Housing is just the most obvious side effect of that.
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# ? Apr 23, 2014 19:28 |
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To go one step further up the fractional reserve banking Creek, the bank of Canada responded to the 2008 recession by introducing low interest rates and buying debt instruments off of the retail banks. The stated goal was to generate liquidity. The banks in turn were supposed to lend money to businesses to get the economy going again. Unfortunately this didn't really happen as banks were reticent to lend to any businesses for fear of default. So around 2009 of you were the ceo of rbc, Scotia, bmo, Td, you were probably getting sucked off by some intern while wondering what was the best way to start "generating more value for the shareholder". Back then the answer would have been, well lookee here, the government of Canada is going to guarantee any loans we make to dumb Canadians who want to buy a house with little to no downpayment. You would have to have been brain dead not to seize that opportunity. So now dumb rear end Canadians are happily "building equity" while their salaries have receded and they're busy spending their helocs and racking up their credit card debt leading to the highest level of household debt in the western world. That's OK though. The NYTimes had annoited the Canadian middle class as the richest in the world.
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# ? Apr 23, 2014 19:55 |
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TD macro strategist: "The longer-term trend in retail volumes [in #Canada] points to the creeping theme of domestic fatigue" #cdnecon https://twitter.com/dbcurren/status/459065263426908160
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# ? Apr 23, 2014 22:08 |
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God it feels good for someone to tell me that, between the two of us, my girlfriend and I are rich I've finally made it...
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# ? Apr 23, 2014 22:47 |
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brucio posted:Wait, how can you have 48% office and 74% service? Is it just me or is this perfectly logical? A job in a fast food joint will count as a service sector job, but not as an office job. Because a fast food joint is not an office. Out of the 74% service sector jobs 48% are office jobs and 26% are retail/various customer services etc. Wasting posted:Anyone else have to sit through a "get in now or you'll never be able to" real estate pitch from family over Easter dinner? If it makes you feel any better, I endured roughly the same scenario for a few years until it ended in a horrific crash which made a lot of people poor in a very short period of time. I know quite a few very smart people (literally millionaires) who still managed to lose on their real estate investments because the crash simply was too ferocious to contain by anyone. But of course the same thing might not happen in Canada, and in UK, and in some other countries. Because... well, reasons.
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# ? Apr 24, 2014 14:33 |
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It's nice to hear that I am not perhaps the insane one, but it doesn't make me feel much better, because the other option is that the people I care about most have lost their minds. I just wish there were a way to unfuck our economy without hurting a bunch of low-info people who committed the crime of responding in a way the government either predicted and just didn't care much about, or was too incompetent to understand.
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# ? Apr 24, 2014 14:48 |
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Wasting posted:It's nice to hear that I am not perhaps the insane one, but it doesn't make me feel much better, because the other option is that the people I care about most have lost their minds. I share your sense of apprehension because has I have mentioned before in this thread, my sister with her family is living in Canada and they just bought a house there.
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# ? Apr 24, 2014 14:55 |
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Wasting posted:It's nice to hear that I am not perhaps the insane one, but it doesn't make me feel much better, because the other option is that the people I care about most have lost their minds. Well let's not absolve all these 'equity' builders from their own greed.
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# ? Apr 24, 2014 15:23 |
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Cultural Imperial posted:Well let's not absolve all these 'equity' builders from their own greed. After seeing the firestorm of hubris surrounding that NYT report on the "middle class," I'm feeling less generous.
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# ? Apr 24, 2014 22:06 |
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Wasting posted:After seeing the firestorm of hubris surrounding that NYT report on the "middle class," I'm feeling less generous. Man, I know. When I first read the headline, the first thing I thought was "Ughhh - I don't even care about the validity or lack thereof herein - the last thing this country needs is more hubris about how we're all financial geniuses, especially relative to those uncouth Yanks!".
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# ? Apr 24, 2014 22:12 |
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Wasting posted:After seeing the firestorm of hubris surrounding that NYT report on the "middle class," I'm feeling less generous. People are responding to that article with hubris? I thought the whole point of the article was to point out the hubris and warn of the house price and debt nemesis.
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# ? Apr 24, 2014 22:17 |
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Lead out in cuffs posted:People are responding to that article with hubris? I thought the whole point of the article was to point out the hubris and warn of the house price and debt nemesis. Check out G&M, Huffpo, National Post if you feel like punishing yourself. I don't see the Star or CBC reporting on it, though.
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# ? Apr 24, 2014 22:42 |
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lol
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# ? Apr 25, 2014 02:52 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 17:31 |
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why the gently caress would anyone live in hamilton
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# ? Apr 25, 2014 02:53 |