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Urdnot Fire posted:I don't get how you can watch the Blackwater episode and not think TV-Stannis is the Mannis. Because in every other scene he's just a stupid cultist under Melisandre and his wife's thumb and decidedly not Mannis. They can rectify it when he goes to the wall, I hope. I still can't quite get my head around how bad that Jaime change is, it shits on the entire point of the character.
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Apr 21, 2014 21:42
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the consolidations made by the show were weird at first, but I think they're probably for the best. I don't Edric Storm will prove to be an essential character and the many-faced god is cool, but basically would amount to some more exposition about yet another religion believed by some people.
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Apr 21, 2014 21:44
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Joramun posted:A Storm of Swords posted: That doesn't seem rapey at all, but maybe I'm a Raper at heart.
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Apr 21, 2014 21:53
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kcroy posted:That doesn't seem rapey at all, but maybe I'm a Raper at heart. In the show, he looks like a rapist because he was there for like a week and she didn't give him any.
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Apr 21, 2014 21:59
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Watched the new episode last night. I like the book version of the sexposition better. Dany launching the slave collars was pretty cool I thought, and ~~*Daario*~~ taking down the dude was pretty badass as well.
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Apr 21, 2014 22:38
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CloFan posted:~~*Daario*~~ taking down the dude was pretty badass as well. I too quite liked that scene At the gates of Meereen We almost saw his peen But 'twas sadly off-screen
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Apr 21, 2014 22:54
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Apr 21, 2014 23:38
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I feel sick. I think I'm going to have to change my avatar. Goddamn gently caress the show.
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Apr 21, 2014 23:43
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Avclub thought the rape was worth a full article: http://www.avclub.com/article/rape-thrones-203499 You do have to wonder what the showrunners are thinking. It pretty much ruins the best character.
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Apr 21, 2014 23:55
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Can we get the thread title changed to Rape of Thrones? Or at least swap out "Game" for "Rape" in the current title, tia ~Daario~ was pretty cool, it's a shame he didn't poo poo or at least piss on the dude's actual corpse instead of toward Meereen. I'm glad they at least showed him kissing one of his golden ladies 
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Apr 21, 2014 23:58
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New Daario is pretty great. RIP Strong Belwas.
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Apr 22, 2014 00:03
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Junkenstein posted:Avclub thought the rape was worth a full article: Maybe the show is pointing out that Jaime IS a child killer and rapist, and always has been. The show isn't making it "more" rapey, its just exposing the rape that was always there. Not allowing the viewer to say "oh, but she really meant yes" while Jaime hosed her on her dead son's bier.
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Apr 22, 2014 00:09
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kcroy posted:Maybe the show is pointing out that Jaime IS a child killer and rapist, and always has been.
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Apr 22, 2014 00:15
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it was different in the books see he raped her until she liked it or he raped her until she changed her mind or w/e so it was totally okay there the tv show totally spoiled the purity and sanctity of that beautiful love scene and besmirched the noble name of ~jaime lannister~kcroy posted:Maybe the show is pointing out that Jaime IS a child killer and rapist, and always has been. The show isn't making it "more" rapey, its just exposing the rape that was always there. Not allowing the viewer to say "oh, but she really meant yes" while Jaime hosed her on her dead son's bier. how dare you???
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Apr 22, 2014 00:19
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Contra Calculus posted:When was he a rapist in the books? Or I don't know, maybe I missed something. Doesn't matter anyway since the show ruined it. It was embarrassingly heavy-handed, if that's the case.
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Apr 22, 2014 00:20
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It was the rape scene we deserve, not the rape scene we want.
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Apr 22, 2014 00:27
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Contra Calculus posted:I feel sick. I think I'm going to have to change my avatar. Goddamn gently caress the show. Nevermind that he pushed an 8-year-old child out of a window right in the pilot, now all of a sudden he's a bad guy who one surely wouldn't want to be associated with.
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Apr 22, 2014 00:28
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Contra Calculus posted:When was he a rapist in the books? Or I don't know, maybe I missed something. Doesn't matter anyway since the show ruined it. quote:There was no tenderness in the kiss he returned to her, only hunger. Her mouth opened for his tongue. "No" she said weakly when his lips moved down her neck, "not here. The septons..." "No" means "No" good Ser! Joramun posted:Nevermind that he pushed an 8-year-old child out of a window right in the pilot, now all of a sudden he's a bad guy who one surely wouldn't want to be associated with. well he had his hand chopped, and was nice to brienne and he DID kill the king for a good reason, so we forgaved him... Kafka Esq. posted:Think he's saying that this sex scene we're all talking about was a rape regardless of how Cersei acted in the book. Yeah, it could be argued Dany is the same way.. it's like the dany/drogo rape is much more bearable in the books, because we see that he is being "gentle" etc,. But by modern western standards, it is a rape no matter HOW gentle he is - she simply cannot consent as a result of her age. The show doesn't let us look away/rationalize away/romanticize what is happening - it takes away the safety of the grey area. kcroy fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Apr 22, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 00:28
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Kafka Esq. posted:Think he's saying that this sex scene we're all talking about was a rape regardless of how Cersei acted in the book. I guess I didn't notice it as much because it was like two sentences rather than a full-on scene. It's lovely, but it didn't seem as rapey to me at the time. To be honest, in the book it seemed more like she was saying 'no' due to the location. Not 'no, I don't want to do this right now period' like in the show. Joramun posted:Nevermind that he pushed an 8-year-old child out of a window right in the pilot, now all of a sudden he's a bad guy who one surely wouldn't want to be associated with. The difference was that he was at least on the path to redemption after that point.
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Apr 22, 2014 00:35
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Contra Calculus posted:I guess I didn't notice it as much because it was like two sentences rather than a full-on scene. It's lovely, but it didn't seem as rapey to me at the time. To be honest, in the book it seemed more like she was saying 'no' due to the location. Not 'no, I don't want to do this right now period' like in the show. Right, it wasn't as rapey - but the argument can be made, there is no degree of rape - it is, or it isn't. I'm just suggesting the show is possibly doing that intentionally. I don't know, I'm just throwing it out there.
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Apr 22, 2014 00:39
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Contra Calculus posted:I guess I didn't notice it as much because it was like two sentences rather than a full-on scene. It's lovely, but it didn't seem as rapey to me at the time. To be honest, in the book it seemed more like she was saying 'no' due to the location. Not 'no, I don't want to do this right now period' like in the show. That said, I wish they had done it differently. A slightly panicked look, or some kind of acting, before trying to rewrite the characters. I suppose it makes their eventual falling out easier to write, though. Maybe it's a prelude to the Kettleblacks? edit: also, doesn't Jaime kind of realize that Joffrey meant nothing to him in that scene?
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Apr 22, 2014 00:42
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Eh, fair enough points. Either way, the show did it way shittier. I mean when you handle something less-tactfully than Gurm, there's something wrong with you.
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Apr 22, 2014 00:44
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I think you guys harping on the whole ~Jaime's road to redemption are really missing not only the whole point of the episode but the whole point of the series. Jaime's not trying to find the path of goodness that will purify his soul and allow him to wield the sword of everlasting peace, fuckers. This whole banal road to redemption crap is the kind of shallow writing that most people detest in genre fiction. The TV writers are trying to one up Gurm. Gurm can only write in archetypes. The showrunners are trying to write about people, and people are faceted. Look at this particular episode. The hound is Arya's buddy and they're going on adventures~ Sure, but the hound is still ruthlessly out for number one above all else and will engage in despicable acts for self gain. Jaime and Brienne are going on adventures to save the kingdom~ Sure, but Jaime's still a self interested motherfucker who for once in his life had the chance to put someone else before him and actually went so far as acting on that, but he's still Jaime Lannister, king of entitlement and a spoiled wunderkind who has always had what he wanted. The dude who picks on Jon Snow is such a jerk~ Sure, but he's also worried about protecting castle black first and foremost. Cersei's an evil bitch~ Sure, because she's slowly been driven insane eversince Ned Stark put her and her children in peril and she started down a path where she's losing everything she worked for and for every calculated step she's taken she's shoved three steps back. In George RR Martin's world there's very little room for humanity. The showrunners are trying to avert that. If the TV show were dead strict to the book it would have lost the audience's interest a long time ago because people get very bored of worlds with clearly defined goodies and baddies. Jaime and Cersei's scene? That was supposed to get your blood boiling. Everyone was starting to see Jaime as a hero, everyone was starting to sympathize with Jaime, everyone was looking back and thinking how different he was from the man who pushed Bran out a window. That the audience feels so personally outraged when a character betrays their trust in them like that? That's a sign of drat good writing. Him raping Cersei doesn't mean he's not the same guy who sacrificed his hand to save Brienne, and him jumping in a bear pit to save Brienne doesn't mean he's not the same guy who pushed Bran out a window. The difference is when we met Jamie all he could do was push Bran out a window. Then we saw him do some pretty heroic poo poo. Now we're seeing the same man who did some heroic poo poo do some horrible poo poo while still being the same guy. You're meant to feel conflicted. This whole story is about how you can't come into this world looking for valiant heroes because they either end up dead or corrupt, that was the point of Ned Stark's death. LEFTENANT RIGHTIE fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Apr 22, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 01:08
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You cant say in good faith that the scene in the show accurately reflects the source material. It doesn't have to be a 'degree of rape' argument because that's insanely terrible but in the book she doesn't only consent but literally grabs his dick begging for it before they actually gently caress. There's no comparison.
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Apr 22, 2014 01:09
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LEFTENANT RIGHTIE posted:That's a sign of drat good writing. Brutal rape scene that is completely out of character: the sign of drat good writing
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Apr 22, 2014 01:14
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You guys are honestly fighting tooth and nail about the sanctity of a scene whose whole point is he raped her until she liked it or he kept raping her until she changed her mind and then it was okay. The scene in the TV show is completely within Jaime's character both in the book and in the show. He's not Prince Charming, the whole Road to Redemption poo poo is bull and that's what the episode was highlighting. Get over it.
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Apr 22, 2014 01:17
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LEFTENANT RIGHTIE posted:I think you guys harping on the whole ~Jaime's road to redemption are really missing not only the whole point of the episode but the whole point of the series. Jaime's not trying to find the path of goodness that will purify his soul and allow him to wield the sword of everlasting peace, fuckers. This whole banal road to redemption crap is the kind of shallow writing that most people detest in genre fiction. The TV writers are trying to one up Gurm. Uh, where in the books are the clearly defined goodies and baddies? If anything the show is being less nuanced about characters in general, and Jaime specifically here.
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Apr 22, 2014 01:18
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No better example than Cersei. In the books she is nothing more than an evil queen archetype who does bad poo poo for shits and giggles and enjoys every minute of it. In the TV show every time the writers give her a bit more humanity there's a huge outcry about how dare they try to make her sympathetic because god forbid an antagonist is capable of justifying their increasingly despicable actions to themselves instead of cackling maniacally and tying hapless young women to train tracks. No better example than the murder of Robert's bastards. People threw a fit when it looked like Cersei was capable of feeling remorse and horror at Joffrey's actions instead of her being the one to make the call for the slaughter, nevermind that the previous season her main motivator had been that of a mother terrified for her children's lives and now her son had enacted orders very similar to the ones she feared Robert would. And nevermind that her subsequent choice to not do anything about Joffrey's actions fed well into her own increasing brutality afterwards as she makes a conscious choice to shut out Joffrey's brutality (at first) as opposed to actively encouraging it in the books. In the books Cersei is stagnant, she goes from evil to insane which isn't that big a leap. In the TV show she falls from much higher. LEFTENANT RIGHTIE fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Apr 22, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 01:22
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LEFTENANT RIGHTIE posted:he raped her until she liked it or he kept raping her until she changed her mind and then it was okay.
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Apr 22, 2014 01:23
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How many times do you need people to quote that scene before you can get off? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 22, 2014 01:27
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As many times as you need to get off to your own supremely lovely posting and mental gymnastics.
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Apr 22, 2014 01:32
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You can simply scroll to the top of this page for your wank off material tia Remember quote:"No" means "No" good Ser! And try not to get sick over the fictional actions of fictional characters mkay 
LEFTENANT RIGHTIE fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Apr 22, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 01:37
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Thought for the day: There is no such thing as consent, only degrees of rape.
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Apr 22, 2014 01:38
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LEFTENANT RIGHTIE posted:How many times do you need people to quote that scene before you can get off? It was coercion at best. 
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Apr 22, 2014 01:39
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Her lips said "Hodor" but her eyes said "Hodor". What's a boy to do?
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Apr 22, 2014 01:39
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LEFTENANT RIGHTIE posted:How many times do you need people to quote that scene before you can get off? quote:“Hurry,” she was whispering now, “quickly, quickly, now, do it now, do me now. Jaime Jaime Jaime.” Her hands helped guide him. “Yes,” Cersei said as he thrust, “my brother, sweet brother, yes, like that, yes, I have you, you’re home now, you’re home now, you’re home.”
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Apr 22, 2014 01:40
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All those sticky princes.
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Apr 22, 2014 02:13
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Jeffrey posted:the consolidations made by the show were weird at first, but I think they're probably for the best. I don't Edric Storm will prove to be an essential character and the many-faced god is cool, but basically would amount to some more exposition about yet another religion believed by some people. I am sure we will hear more about the many faced god when Ayra goes to Bravos. And with Eric Storm, I think what is more telling is that they have transposed Gendry in his roll. Knowing that GRRM has provided HBO with a timeline I wonder how much he will play into the next two novels.
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Apr 22, 2014 02:17
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Sagnid posted:I am sure we will hear more about the many faced god when Ayra goes to Bravos. And with Eric Storm, I think what is more telling is that they have transposed Gendry in his roll. Knowing that GRRM has provided HBO with a timeline I wonder how much he will play into the next two novels. Nah, I think the many-faced god is out. Jaqen H'qar (sp?) talked about the red god in the show so I assume they combined them.
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Apr 22, 2014 02:19
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I kind of thought they were the same in the beginning, just called different things by different cultures.
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Apr 22, 2014 02:31
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