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Install Windows posted:Normal Everclear's also illegal in 14 states and not illegal but not salable in a 15th. So yeah, I suppose that's "working ok" for Everclear. edit: And even if banning Everclear were a good idea, how does that affect my reasoning about a total ban of edibles being nonsensical, much like a total ban of liquid alcohol would be dumb based on the idea that Everclear is a bad idea.
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Apr 22, 2014 03:58
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The everclear analogy is poo poo because edibles aren't "intense" by nature. They aren't somehow stronger than other routes of administration. The issue with edibles is that you aren't sure what the dose is and you aren't sure how quickly you'll metabolize the dose which introduces an element of chance in to your actual blood concentration of the active ingredient. Its just as easy to dose and end up feeling nothing as it is to dose and end up deeper than you wanted.
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Apr 22, 2014 04:03
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Wait, so if all the weed edibles don't have much weed in them, how is the problem that they have too much weed in them.Salt Fish posted:The everclear analogy is poo poo because edibles aren't "intense" by nature. They aren't somehow stronger than other routes of administration. The issue with edibles is that you aren't sure what the dose is and you aren't sure how quickly you'll metabolize the dose which introduces an element of chance in to your actual blood concentration of the active ingredient. Its just as easy to dose and end up feeling nothing as it is to dose and end up deeper than you wanted. Well, you can be pretty sure when edibles will hit you. Bake goods take about 60-90 minutes, so you should probably be aware. Its not like eating a brownie can sometimes hit you in 10 minutes or 4 hours later.
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Apr 22, 2014 04:03
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Salt Fish posted:The everclear analogy is poo poo because edibles aren't "intense" by nature. They aren't somehow stronger than other routes of administration. The issue with edibles is that you aren't sure what the dose is and you aren't sure how quickly you'll metabolize the dose which introduces an element of chance in to your actual blood concentration of the active ingredient. Its just as easy to dose and end up feeling nothing as it is to dose and end up deeper than you wanted. One key difference between an edible and other methods of consumption is that you can fit a huge amount of cannabis into an edible, and with the delayed onset there's a lot of potential for overconsuption. How about a brownie with a quarter ounce of quality hash? You would be hard pressed to physically ingest that heavy of a dose in another fashion. If someone is given an edible, they should be clear on how strong it is. What would be ideal is if consumers had access to products of various strengths, and were able to make educated decisions based on their desires and experience. Whereas at the moment, some people are getting much higher than they'd like, and (in my opinion) there aren't enough options at the moment for those who want a product that's less potent.
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Apr 22, 2014 04:23
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Prescription painkillers, handgun, end of the world fantasy, scary mugshot on file, weed candy. Let's lead with the weed candy.
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Apr 22, 2014 04:28
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twodot posted:What's your point here? That citing something famous for often being illegal due to its strength as evidence of how labeling "works" is kinda rear end-backwards.
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Apr 22, 2014 04:31
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moller posted:Prescription painkillers, handgun, end of the world fantasy, scary mugshot on file, weed candy. "Kristine A. Kirk called 911 and reported that her husband was talking about the end of the world, asking her to shoot him and "totally hallucinating." Don't lead with the dumb person staying around a crazy dude with a gun.
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Apr 22, 2014 04:34
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Surveillance, safe dosing instructions and warning labels are warranted. If Nintendo have to warn epileptics about video gaming, it's not too much to expect if you want to sell smokeless cannabis products.
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Apr 22, 2014 05:47
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KingEup posted:Surveillance, safe dosing instructions and warning labels are warranted. I don't think anyone here disagrees with that.
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Apr 22, 2014 05:55
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goodness posted:Its not like eating a brownie can sometimes hit you in 10 minutes or 4 hours later. Uh yes it loving can, depending on individual metabolism, what else you ate with it, etc. Edibles are amateur hour.
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Apr 22, 2014 06:06
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hepatizon posted:Uh yes it loving can, depending on individual metabolism, what else you ate with it, etc. Edibles are amateur hour. No, it really can't. Maybe candies and other edibles can, but baked goods take about 60, lets say 45 just for you,-90 minutes to metabolize and take affect. *unless you are grinding the brownie/cookie/cake/whatever into crumbs and then putting it up your rear end, it won't hit you for that long. **maybe if you are Sonic the Hedgehog or a Hummingbird goodness fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Apr 22, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 06:14
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goodness posted:No, it really can't. Maybe candies and other edibles can, but baked goods take about 60, lets say 45 just for you,-90 minutes to metabolize and take affect. I once had 18 doses of of nabiximols. It took 3-4 hrs to kick in. I know because I timed it.
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Apr 22, 2014 06:42
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KingEup posted:I once had 18 doses of of nabiximols. It took 3-4 hrs to kick in. I know because I timed it. A cannibinoid mouth spray sounds awesome.
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Apr 22, 2014 06:46
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Woah, this thread blew up when I was at work! I think there's a better solution to this than just banning sales of edibles. As the Denver Post reported, the biggest problem right now is lack of consistent labeling of THC content. The MED needs to enforce the standard that you can't say you have 100mg of THC and end up having 180 or less than 1mg. In addition to that, there needs to be disclaimer on the package, similar to the Surgeon General's warning on cigarettes: "This product can cause an extremely intense experience, and should be used with caution." If need be, have budtenders caution people about the potency of marijuana-infused products. Hopefully we'll have this whole mess sorted out with a comprehensive regulatory framework by 2016 or so.
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Apr 22, 2014 06:51
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AYC posted:Woah, this thread blew up when I was at work! The good thing about all this becoming legal, is that we actually will be able to study its effects and do things right. I am pretty excited about the next 10 years.
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Apr 22, 2014 06:54
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goodness posted:The good thing about all this becoming legal, is that we actually will be able to study its effects and do things right. I am pretty excited about the next 10 years. Marijuana, gay marriage...things are going our way  Now all we have to do is wait for Vermont to set up its single-payer health care system and see what THAT does.
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Apr 22, 2014 07:09
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AYC posted:Marijuana, gay marriage...things are going our way Hey now, smoking ganja is alright. But no homo. We have to have some decency as a country :p Single-payer health care sounds terrible. I don't get how people want the government to let them smoke or drink or w/e, but demand the gov. or someone else pay for all your poo poo.
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Apr 22, 2014 07:29
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goodness posted:Hey now, smoking ganja is alright. But no homo. We have to have some decency as a country :p Because even if you think it is "unfair" that you have to support whatever "other" you want demonize, it's still a net-gain for society to kick insurance companies and other for profits out of making healthcare decisions. Of course this is all dependent on people not getting all outraged that someone who drinks coke is paying the same as someone who is a raw vegan.
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Apr 22, 2014 16:42
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Being mindful of the social cost of living unhealthily is hardly a bad thing, people should be made aware of that. That doesn't mean I would deny them healthcare though. EDIT: Actually yeah, below poster is right, sorry for contributing to a healthcare derail. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Apr 22, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 16:48
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I think I'll make a separate thread for single-payer health care; don't want to derail this one like we did the gay marriage thread. In California news, the government is considering regulating the weed industry: http://www.latimes.com/local/politi...y#axzz2zdA3593n I think this is a good idea. Short-term, I'm upset that I can't bullshit a medical condition to get some weed. Long-term, however, I think it's good for our state to have a well-regulated medical system, so we have a good springboard from which to sell marijuana after California legalizes it in 2016.
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Apr 22, 2014 16:48
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I think we can all shut the gently caress up about this now. The saint of healthy healthiness Chris Christie has stated that he will NEVER give the all clear to the Devil's Lettuce! http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/christie-ill-never-ok-legal-pot-nj-n86671 How much high fructose corn syrup does that gelatinous gently caress consume exactly? Fido McFatfuck posted:“I don’t care about the tax money that may come from it, and I don’t care, quite frankly, that people think it’s inevitable,” he said. “It’s not inevitable here, I’m not going to permit it, never as long as I’m governor.” There should be a system in place that automatically impeaches individuals that begin making "I" statements in government. Isn't that the antithesis of "will of the people" and constituencies? E: I also wanted to thank all of you for discussing the recent "neurological study" and then soundly debunking it. Anyone else just feel like between blowhard career politicians like Christie and a wholly ridiculous "neurological study", the cannabis prohibition movement really is taking its last dying gasps? They are really sputtering for some sort of legitimacy and justification, when there really isn't either of them to be had. The idiots still piss me off and need to be shouted down, but all in all, these are good times and thanks for pointing out the subtle changes in policy guys.  I do have a question for someone reading way more knowledgeable than me. Would the neurological changes that happened in that "study" be similar to Christie's neurological responses when he consumes the terrible foods he must surely indulge in? A pleasure response, is a pleasure response right? NurhacisUrn fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Apr 22, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 18:07
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NurhacisUrn posted:
The study Christie mentions was pretty terrible as has been discussed perviously in this thread. The question of whether addiction is a suitable model for obesity and/or binge eating is up for debate. Nature Reviews Neuroscience has a decent review of the literature, although it's a bit on the pro-addiction model side.
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Apr 22, 2014 21:09
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NurhacisUrn posted:I think we can all shut the gently caress up about this now. The saint of healthy healthiness Chris Christie has stated that he will NEVER give the all clear to the Devil's Lettuce! Chris Christie is likely to make a run at the presidency in 2016, and he doesn't want to seem soft on vice for the republican primaries. For the next couple of years Christie is likely going to try to maximize conservative pandering as much as possible. Expect a complete about face if Republican sentiments shift towards legalization before then. My condolances, citizens of New Jersey.
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Apr 22, 2014 21:36
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NurhacisUrn posted:I do have a question for someone reading way more knowledgeable than me. Would the neurological changes that happened in that "study" be similar to Christie's neurological responses when he consumes the terrible foods he must surely indulge in? A pleasure response, is a pleasure response right? EDIT: Here's a study that uses almost the exact same methodology as the weed study (voxel-based MRI analysis for density/shape changes) but I have no academic access. EDIT x2: LOL, VBM analysis with better sample size, 5-year longitude, AND cognitive test confirmation. It's exactly like the weed study but without all of the things that make it full of poo poo. Elotana fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Apr 23, 2014 |
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Apr 23, 2014 04:24
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Elotana posted:Right amygdala, check. Nice. Thank you for this information. From what I could read without access either, fascinating stuff. Mirthless posted:Chris Christie is likely to make a run at the presidency in 2016, and he doesn't want to seem soft on vice for the republican primaries. For the next couple of years Christie is likely going to try to maximize conservative pandering as much as possible. Expect a complete about face if Republican sentiments shift towards legalization before then. I had suspected this was just pandering as well. He would be a completely terrible president. Sadly, the right would probably love this guy and consider him "moderate". KernelSlanders posted:The study Christie mentions was pretty terrible as has been discussed perviously in this thread. The question of whether addiction is a suitable model for obesity and/or binge eating is up for debate. Nature Reviews Neuroscience has a decent review of the literature, although it's a bit on the pro-addiction model side. I suppose this is one of those times you just have to sigh. Companies can poison the gently caress out of people's bodies with food like products, and nothing is done. Take one plant that hasn't killed a single human being directly, and holy poo poo this is some strong opposition. The processes behind all of this are simply fascinating to behold. Such proud ignorance is baffling.
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Apr 23, 2014 04:37
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If there had been two generations of Americans who grew up being constantly exposed to subtly racist propaganda that says consuming HFCS will get you pregnant and make you kill yourself things might be different. It's always hard to change ideas that have become culturally engrained as reality.
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Apr 23, 2014 14:30
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KernelSlanders posted:If there had been two generations of Americans who grew up being constantly exposed to subtly racist propaganda that says consuming HFCS will get you pregnant and make you kill yourself things might be different. It's always hard to change ideas that have become culturally engrained as reality. She thought she was just having fun when she took a toke on the demon reefer. But Sue soon found out that there's no such thing as "having fun" with the hemp weed. Nine months later she gave birth to a baby... and that baby was The Devil. Weed: Not even once.
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Apr 23, 2014 14:50
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Mirthless posted:She thought she was just having fun when she took a toke on the demon reefer. But Sue soon found out that there's no such thing as "having fun" with the hemp weed. Nine months later she gave birth to a baby... and that baby was The Devil. That could happen to your family, or to your family, or to yours! I wouldn't mind owning Reefer Madness TBH, it is a pretty funny movie. Solid cinematography too. Goebbels would have been proud of it. My favorite part is where the dude with the slicked back hair goes apeshit after watching the piano lady and then blows that innocent young girl with a promising future away in a puff of cannabis fueled insanity!  KernelSlanders posted:If there had been two generations of Americans who grew up being constantly exposed to subtly racist propaganda that says consuming HFCS will get you pregnant and make you kill yourself things might be different. It's always hard to change ideas that have become culturally engrained as reality. That makes a ton of sense too. I hadn't thought of it that way, I guess I just expect these people to use the tools we all take for granted and actually research a position for themselves. I mean, it is hard for me to get them since what the food industry has done to Americans is far more visible looking around at our obesity rates, and far more provable than the anecdotal societal "harms" of cannabis consumption, so I was just using that to illustrate a disconnect. My apologies if you took my comments to be insensitive to the harms of propaganda victims, I didn't really mean it that way. I do feel bad for the people super brainwashed since it is the ones most vocal against it that could benefit from it the most. Just really sad, and a major failure to communicate, and real disrespect for the people at the highest levels. NurhacisUrn fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Apr 23, 2014 |
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Apr 23, 2014 15:00
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KernelSlanders posted:If there had been two generations of Americans who grew up being constantly exposed to subtly racist propaganda that says consuming HFCS will get you pregnant and make you kill yourself things might be different. It's always hard to change ideas that have become culturally engrained as reality. "[s posted:Reefer[/s] Soda Madness"]
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Apr 23, 2014 15:06
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Soda's a lot more potent these days than it was when I was a boy, I tell you what. HFCS really made that stuff hard to handle. Now the only Soda still made with sugar's gotta come up from across the border to Mexico.
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Apr 23, 2014 15:34
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The recommended serving size for Coke is 8 ounces but I didn't feel anything right away, so I drank the rest of the 2-liter bottle and said a bunch of cusses in front of my Mom.
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Apr 23, 2014 15:37
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There was a discussion about this in another thread(I don't remember which), but don't take the HFCS scaremongering at face value.
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Apr 23, 2014 15:57
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Hi, I just got out of rehab for HFCS addiction. It took me 15 years, losing my wife, my family, my house and my job for me to finally hit rock bottom and realize I needed help. At one point I was turning tricks behind 7-11 just to go right back in and buy a bottle for gently caress's sake! That's when I knew that this is no "harmless substance" but a life-ruining chemical that makes you crazy!
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Apr 23, 2014 16:01
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Mirthless posted:Soda's a lot more potent these days than it was when I was a boy, I tell you what. HFCS really made that stuff hard to handle. Now the only Soda still made with sugar's gotta come up from across the border to Mexico. Mexico glass bottle Cokes are the best. Of course HFCS isn't terrible in moderation, but many people don't consume it in moderation. I only mentioned it because it is a common ingredient in food that has a provable worse track record than cannabis. I am truly sorry for this derail.
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Apr 23, 2014 16:01
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https://twitter.com/dcmj2014/status/458991262243516416 The DC Cannabis Campaign can finally start collecting signatures today. They need 25,000 by July 7 to get the legalization initiative on the ballot.
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Apr 23, 2014 17:02
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Non-violent drug sentencing seems has been getting relaxed everywhere it seems, today they announced bigger steps towards clemency at the federal level for currently incarcerated offenders:quote:The new policy goes even further, making nonviolent felons eligible for clemency if they have served 10 years in prison and would have received a significantly lower sentence under today’s more lenient laws. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/us/politics/clemency.html?hp
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Apr 23, 2014 17:06
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Wow, that's pretty awesome if they are really going to do it. Eliminating federal parole always seemed like a really strange legislative move to me. 15% of federal inmates being for crack is insane to me, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.
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Apr 23, 2014 17:13
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Py-O-My posted:https://twitter.com/dcmj2014/status/458991262243516416 Weed shops in the federal capital? There's no way the DEA will take that lying down.
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Apr 23, 2014 17:17
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AYC posted:Weed shops in the federal capital? There's no way the DEA will take that lying down. No shops yet. Any plan to tax & regulate would affect District revenue, which means it wouldn't be a valid subject for a ballot initiative. quote:SHORT TITLE
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Apr 23, 2014 17:38
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Py-O-My posted:https://twitter.com/dcmj2014/status/458991262243516416 Yup, just ran across these guys today out gathering signatures in my neighborhood:  I shot them an email asking about volunteering, mostly to give me an excuse to get my lazy rear end out there in the sunshine. They want a full resume for volunteers even. Maybe that's just to screen out total deadbeats, or are they actually seriously concerned where I got my M.A. from and how long I've worked a Hyperglobalcorp Inc.? The guy whose petition I signed says the first-day response has been staggering. Anecdotal, but even the brief time I was standing there with him there were folks walking up and signing every minute. We get a lot of street-corner petition folks around here, so it was interesting watching people reflexively blow him off, but then spin on their heel when they heard "marijuana" and come over to sign. I don't smoke myself, but this has always seemed legislatively like a good idea, and I feel bad I haven't been more involved in DC politics up to this point, particularly the efforts to raise the minimum wage.
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Apr 23, 2014 19:25
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