|
Suddenly Chinese... Chinese everywhere.
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 08:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 19:33 |
|
|
As if there weren't enough invasions already, you just had to mod in an extra one, huh?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 08:08
|
|
|
This timelines Chinese nationalists are going to be completely insane...I mean, you know, more so.  Rejected Fate posted:...Huh. Isn't it possible for a non-Sayyid or Sayyid descended Muslim to create the Sunni Caliphate IF they have all of the holy sites and ridiculous Prestige/Piety. He's a genius who just ended a six hundred year war for control of Spain, a four hundred year war for control of the Levant, and a two hundred year war for control of Antioch while obliterating every Mongol force in Europe. This guy is basically Saladin, Suleiman I, Zheng He, Charles V and Gamal Abdel Nasser all rolled in to one. Well, unless I read this wrong and he's really medieval ultra Hitler. I guess it could go either way?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 08:20
|
|
|
I will say this about the Ming Frontier: Think of it more like occupied territory in HoI (uh, I heard that's how it worked in HoI, anyway) or MotE or whatever than a single empire that will just be exported wholesale to EU4 as a giant Ming blob. I'll also say this about Ming Frontier: I totally didn't expect the AI to just go for Spain— I expected it to follow a route more like what the Timurids do, since Ming Events were based on/replace the Timurid ones. In test games it tended to work like that, anyway. This time... um... Chang Yuchun had other ideas. I'm not sure if he just went mad with power because I gave him more event stacks or if it was because Al-Jabir still had some of León from a jihad a while back. But, having finished the game, the results wound up being a really interesting narrative I'm looking forward to writing up a lot. Much like Chang Yuchun, the character in the written updates, exceeded his mandate from the Hongwu Emperor, so too did Chang Yuchun, the element of my ByzLP support mod, exceed his intended purpose in the LP. I'll write more about some of the strange things that happened in-game that wound up feeding into the narrative after we've made it through the last few CK2 updates.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 08:58
|
|
|
I personally like the idea of him going mad with power.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 09:18
|
|
|
 The Phanariote Committee  Tachat II "the Brigand" Qutuzid, 51 Well I, for one, welcome our new Cathayan neighbours. Their state seems to be as secular as our own, and while they did conquer Holy Antioch they also wrested it from the hands of the Gauhar Ayin Shahdom and brought it back to civilization, even if not our own. Not only that they also seem to plan on bringing stability to the war-wrecked Iberia, subjugating Orthodox and Muslim alike and bringing them all into the fold as subjects of the Ming Emperor of the East. I only hope their future lies in the further conquest of Arabia and Iberia. To have a state like their own next to ours would be a blessing. Two mighty, secular Empires taking power away from the Islamic Zealots that now wrack the countryside. It's like the stuff of legends! Basilissa, Senators, I would see us seeking further co-operation with the Cathay Frontier. Only together can we bring power away from the Church and back into the State, back to the people and those who lead them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 10:09
|
|
|
Is there any chance we can still reinstate the roman empire?  Also the only thing we need now is the Aztec invasion of Europe from that one expansion, and we're good to go on "messed up history".
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 10:12
|
|
|
Samuel posted:Is there any chance we can still reinstate the roman empire? OOC: If I read the Rincewind's Fluff right, not really. It seems the Roman Empire is an idea that has been all but officially abandoned, left behind in history ("As it should be!", -Tachat II) and seen to as inspiration from the past rather than dream of the future. But still, I'll leave that one up to Rincewind and the Fluff of the LP, seeing as how things might still turn bonkers from where we now are and really have poo poo hitting fans as far as the eyes can see.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 10:17
|
|
|
Given that we have like, a decade left: no, oh, hell no. We need all of Italy, Africa east of Tunis and the holy land.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 10:17
|
|
|
Too bad our foolish Empress has nixed the idea of assassinating threats.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 10:56
|
|
|
Rincewind posted:This time... um... Chang Yuchun had other ideas. I'm not sure if he just went mad with power because I gave him more event stacks or if it was because Al-Jabir still had some of León from a jihad a while back. This seems like a thing that happens if you take a very Laissez-Faire stance towards your subordinates, like he gave command of an army to one of the generals under him, told him to go use it as they saw fit, then that guy went and started conquering stuff in Iberia. Chang Yuchun probably isn't even personally aware of that conquest.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 11:06
|
|
|
YF-23 posted:This seems like a thing that happens if you take a very Laissez-Faire stance towards your subordinates, like he gave command of an army to one of the generals under him, told him to go use it as they saw fit, then that guy went and started conquering stuff in Iberia. Chang Yuchun probably isn't even personally aware of that conquest. "In accordance with your orders, we have taken large parts of the province of Hispania, which borders the Mediterranean sea."
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 11:14
|
|
|
NewMars posted:Given that we have like, a decade left: no, oh, hell no. We need all of Italy, Africa east of Tunis and the holy land. This is a really good thing. When Kiev-Byzantium happened I was worried we'd move into EU4 with everything from Alexandria to Novrogod under our dominion, which would make for a boring game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 11:59
|
|
|
occipitallobe posted:This is a really good thing. When Kiev-Byzantium happened I was worried we'd move into EU4 with everything from Alexandria to Novrogod under our dominion, which would make for a boring game. This is a misapprehension. The story matters more than the territory, and being weaker is just that, less able to have an impact.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 12:16
|
|
|
occipitallobe posted:This is a really good thing. When Kiev-Byzantium happened I was worried we'd move into EU4 with everything from Alexandria to Novrogod under our dominion, which would make for a boring game. Plus it's highly likely we would have transferred over with Kiev in a PU and maybe Sicily as a vassal kingdom, if not more decentralization. Also, did Rincewind look up killed Valeria III and Tsar Yaroslav yet? Because if not, that could be interesting to know.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 14:18
|
|
|
AJ_Impy posted:This is a misapprehension. The story matters more than the territory, and being weaker is just that, less able to have an impact. If you're really into a story of "and then we blobbed up even bigger," I suppose. After a certain point the game just gets too easy and there's only one direction for the narrative to go, really.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 14:28
|
|
|
Adept Nightingale posted:If you're really into a story of "and then we blobbed up even bigger," I suppose. After a certain point the game just gets too easy and there's only one direction for the narrative to go, really. Taking a multinational blob from CKII to EUIV is rarely that simple or easy, as you aren't the only blob on the map and the others are right there in your face. Even if we had reclaimed the empire, it still wouldn't be the kind of cakewalk you fear.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 14:36
|
|
|
Fair enough, I suppose. That said I'm much happier with how things have gone-- decline like this is a really interesting narrative I haven't seen much in CK2 LPs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 14:45
|
|
|
Luhood posted:
Ah, yes, the Chinese have, without provocation, sacked and conquered every nation around us and some further away, but surely they will be dear friends to us!
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 14:52
|
|
|
AJ_Impy posted:Taking a multinational blob from CKII to EUIV is rarely that simple or easy, as you aren't the only blob on the map and the others are right there in your face. Even if we had reclaimed the empire, it still wouldn't be the kind of cakewalk you fear. except Greece and Turkey are worth more than the whole of north Africa. My Byzantium game was converted with Greece, Turkey, Georgia, with Croatia and Hungary as vassals. It had double the income of my closest rival, a Caliphate of Syria, Jerusalem, and the whole of North Africa. The Muslim powers get Armageddon conversion, and will only be strengthened.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 17:05
|
|
|
NewMars posted:Given that we have like, a decade left: no, oh, hell no. We need all of Italy, Africa east of Tunis and the holy land. We'd also need the land connection to Italy, via Croatia, Slovenia, and Aquila--all of which the HRE holds right now. Rome isn't happening. In order to actually restore Rome you either need to ignore role-playing and go gung-ho for it even if you get a contented pacifist, or be extremely careful with ruler development. It also requires that your Douxes not try to tear the process apart for their own gain, which is virtually impossible. The only solution to that is killing Douxes. This is a feature, not a bug. Incidentally, I have yet to see a game where Islam doesn't fly completely to pieces.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 17:40
|
|
|
On the bright side, now that Iberia is hosed to pieces, we essentially have no real rival for Blood in the Bosphorus: New World Adventures.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 18:15
|
|
|
Funky Valentine posted:On the bright side, now that Iberia is hosed to pieces, we essentially have no real rival for Blood in the Bosphorus: New World Adventures. Only if we choose to not occupy the OE's space in the timeline as an expansionist Near-East power.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 18:20
|
|
|
Funky Valentine posted:On the bright side, now that Iberia is hosed to pieces, we essentially have no real rival for Blood in the Bosphorus: New World Adventures. The Chinese might disagree. Scotland and France as well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 18:20
|
|
|
Patter Song posted:The Chinese might disagree. Scotland and France as well. The Scottish have even had a few centuries of practice on the Irish!
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 18:23
|
|
|
 I hope we can rake in some serious wealth in the coming ten years and I'm waiting in excitement to see if we can still become a serious super power. Theres so many lands we still have to take!
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 18:25
|
|
|
Rincewind posted:The Scottish have even had a few centuries of practice on the Irish! About a year ago, I read a fascinating thing discussing the Spanish conquest of the Canaries Islands (which took place over the course of about 90 years of campaigns) as a dry run for the conquest of the New World, getting the Spaniards used to fighting distant campaigns against forces with far inferior military technology but mastery of the lay of the land. It's an interesting argument.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 18:47
|
|
|
I have a feeling our early EU4 game is 'gently caress with the Chinese conquests while we set up shop in Iberia/Morocco and tech up'.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 21:09
|
|
|
Rincewind posted:I will say this about the Ming Frontier: Think of it more like occupied territory in HoI (uh, I heard that's how it worked in HoI, anyway) or MotE or whatever than a single empire that will just be exported wholesale to EU4 as a giant Ming blob. To be fair, if you can hand-wave away the logistical nightmare that a campaign across the Steppe would entail, there is really no way that the European feudal structure would have fielded militaries capable of resisting the Ming dynasty at their zenith. After all, the Ming were stronger than the Song, and it took the Mongols more time to conquer the southern half of the Song dynasty than all of their other conquests put together. The mongols that rode west to conquer the rest of the world gave Europe and the Middle East a taste of what it was like to fight a force honed by conflict with the best of the best, and now the Ming dynasty has simply cut out that middleman. I totally want this to be another CK2 DLC!
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 22:47
|
|
|
Dibujante posted:I totally want this to be another CK2 DLC! Because the eastern half of the map needs to get hosed over even more.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 22:51
|
|
|
So if our Chinese horde 'exceeded his mandate', does that mean he's potentially going to see negative events fire in EU4 or just hella revolt risk?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 22:53
|
|
|
Funky Valentine posted:Because the eastern half of the map needs to get hosed over even more. Yes. That, and anachronistic Japanese wokou pirates pillaging the mega-Somalian merchant republic that crops up in every game of RoI now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 22:55
|
|
|
Dibujante posted:Yes. That, and anachronistic Japanese wokou pirates pillaging the mega-Somalian merchant republic that crops up in every game of RoI now. Wait, really? I've not had much of a chance to play RoI, and I'm not sure whether to interpret this as literally "capitalist mega-Somalia" or just that you get absurdly powerful merchant republics in the Red Sea and Indian Ocean. I mean, the latter makes sense, but I don't know enough about any new things they might've put in that favours the formation of Somalian republics.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2014 23:04
|
|
|
I imagine a Chinese/East Asian DLC would be the last most obvious thing to put in, and easier than extending the map any further south. China could be interesting as a hotbed of imperial collapse and reformation if breakaway kingdoms essentially have a Seeking the Mandate CB that basically drives them to war on one another until a unified China has coalesced. Plus you could have the Mongols actually coming out of Mongolia. Japan would be a bit boring for the first few hundred years but then it'd get interesting too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 03:38
|
|
|
They're probably better off giving flavor to stuff that exists (People that aren't Catholic/Orthodox/Sunni/Norse) before thinking about map expansions.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 03:46
|
|
|
Nakar posted:Japan would be a bit boring for the first few hundred years but then it'd get interesting too. Heian period is ridiculously cool, though. The tension between the Imperial family and their Fujiwara masters would be great: think of the potential of having an Emperor player character bucking under the rule that he must marry a Fujiwara woman and that his father in law become Prime Minister. Not to mention the potential in the mechanic of Emperors resigning, feeling that they'd have more control and ability to buck the Fujiwaras as ex-Emperors advising their successors than as Emperors. You have religion and politics, court intrigue, and so much loving. Have you read The Pillow Book or the Genji Monogatari? So much loving. Paradox loves that. Heian period is way more interesting than any of the bakufus.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 04:22
|
|
|
Patter Song posted:Heian period is ridiculously cool, though. The tension between the Imperial family and their Fujiwara masters would be great: think of the potential of having an Emperor player character bucking under the rule that he must marry a Fujiwara woman and that his father in law become Prime Minister. Not to mention the potential in the mechanic of Emperors resigning, feeling that they'd have more control and ability to buck the Fujiwaras as ex-Emperors advising their successors than as Emperors. You have religion and politics, court intrigue, and so much loving. Have you read The Pillow Book or the Genji Monogatari? So much loving. Paradox loves that. They'd have to implement a hell of a lot more robust intrigue system and toss in more nuances to vassals to be able to get anywhere close to that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 05:48
|
|
|
AdventFalls posted:They're probably better off giving flavor to stuff that exists (People that aren't Catholic/Orthodox/Sunni/Norse) before thinking about map expansions. Agreed. Africa in particular desperately needs expansion. The west is super boring because its only connection to the rest of the world is two little patches of desert, but East Africa is worse. There's really no justification for marking most of the Sahel (including a section of the Nile!) as empty wasteland except that they didn't want to deal with it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 10:08
|
|
|
Basically, as far as I Can see, re: the Ming Frontier Iberia and the holy land should both be separate countries in the conversion, maybe more then one each? We're not looking at an actual empire here, after all, but something akin to a reverse-Alexander.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 14:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 19:33 |
|
|
AdventFalls posted:They're probably better off giving flavor to stuff that exists (People that aren't Catholic/Orthodox/Sunni/Norse) before thinking about map expansions. Agreed. Especially pagans other than Norse and maybe Tengri are ultra-boring, because they have almost no additional mechanic or events. Playing as them mostly consists of activating that one special festival and waiting until some more interesting religion finally converts you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 18:06
|
|
