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testing is hugely important and nobody wants to do it because you can't add those LOC counts to the finished project and bill the customer for them
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Apr 22, 2014 22:13
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assert inside the code
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Apr 22, 2014 22:15
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poo poo like this is why having "Software engineering as serious engineering" is something I think would be a good idea.
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Apr 22, 2014 22:15
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what if we can offset all this tedious "testing" stuff onto the users? if it fucks up they can email us about it and it will become a support ticket that sits in a database untouched for years bam, i just figured out how to reduce overall resource needs via crowdsourcing, i will be awaiting my huge bonus check
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Apr 22, 2014 22:16
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Y'all need to look into property-based testing because it owns bones whenever it is applicable.
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Apr 22, 2014 22:19
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2banks1swap.avi posted:poo poo like this is why having "Software engineering as serious engineering" is something I think would be a good idea. software engineering isnt real engineering tho
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Apr 22, 2014 22:21
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i think its funny that that software engineering test u'd hafta take to be a "real" software engineer basically outlines all different ways to manage software development, and in the real world 90% of it gets thrown out the window. i have never worked for a place that stuck to an actual software engineering paradigm
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Apr 22, 2014 22:23
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MononcQc posted:Y'all need to look into property-based testing because it owns bones whenever it is applicable. goddamn does quickcheck own. thanks erlang!!
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Apr 22, 2014 22:24
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i really like tdd/bdd but have barely done any since undergrad bc either worked for a place where "we didnt have capacity" (bc we were putting out fires from all our untested software), doing stuff with volatile io/graphics, or doing research (lol why would we want to test this thing were going to publish as knowledge and hinge careers on, im sure the smo solver written by this 22yo biologist who picked up matlab from yahoo answers is trustworthy)
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Apr 22, 2014 22:26
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speaking of graphics testing valve has a cool new opengl debugger https://github.com/ValveSoftware/vogl
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Apr 22, 2014 22:26
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Socracheese posted:i think its funny that that software engineering test u'd hafta take to be a "real" software engineer basically outlines all different ways to manage software development, and in the real world 90% of it gets thrown out the window. i have never worked for a place that stuck to an actual software engineering paradigm yeah at the $BIGCORP i work at i sat in on a few hiring committees. If you knew what "testing" and "mocking" and "TDD" was (just the words, maybe a sample test for the algo problem in the interview) it would get you at the top of the pile for a fresh grad, and if you didn't and were an experienced hire you were basically put at the bottom of the pile. CS programs are trash at actually preparing people for development work and not very good at teaching cs theory. Unfortunately there are no good SE undergrad courses and total lol at having PhD's in software engineering teach anyone anything about real-world software.
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Apr 22, 2014 22:28
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MononcQc posted:Y'all need to look into property-based testing because it owns bones whenever it is applicable. Malcolm XML posted:goddamn does quickcheck own. thanks erlang!! quotin
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Apr 22, 2014 22:29
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i am in a software engineering course right now and its the most do-nothing class i've ever taken. the professor doesnt know poo poo about it, he teaches out of some old book from the 90s filled with totally irrelevant poo poo, and he just asks questions straight outta the book, and the only way to get full credit is to google for the answer key to regurgitate the exact bullshit the book wants to hear. gonna get an A and learn zero about software engineering
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Apr 22, 2014 22:30
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checking the malloc return wastes valuable cycles which could otherwise be used for mining bitcoin, [i]grai grandpaa
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Apr 22, 2014 22:33
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grandpa leaving that earlier one in there, good poo poo awful.ipa
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Apr 22, 2014 22:33
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we have a thing that picks a small percentage of read-only requests and plays them a second time against a different code branch, to compare performance and other results. It's pretty great, because it means you're testing real usage on real infrastructure and data sets. You can also do the whole A/B slow rollout thing to see if anything explodes. a bunch of places do that as part of continuous deployment, and we do it as part of every FB push. it's also super handy on Android, where OEMs love to troll you with random platform differences and the breadth of devices is just way too high to admit to systematic verification.
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Apr 22, 2014 22:34
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uncurable mlady posted:grandpa did you use the autoclose thing?
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Apr 22, 2014 22:36
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uncurable mlady posted:checking the malloc return wastes valuable cycles which could otherwise be used for mining bitcoin, [i]grai grandpaa the return value of malloc is a lie (or if not a lie an equivocation that may as well be a lie) on many OSes anyways. make sure your programs handle SIGKILL intelligently!
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Apr 22, 2014 22:38
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Subjunctive posted:did you use the autoclose thing? yes
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Apr 22, 2014 22:38
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uncurable mlady posted:checking the malloc return wastes valuable cycles which could otherwise be used for mining bitcoin, [i]grai grandpaa really narrow category of software which can do anything except stick an assert on the malloc though, if malloc fails outside of like limited embedded software it means you are probably screwed as far as recovering goes overall i suspect that very little error handling code out there does anything more useful than failing with a touch more logging, which probably could be automatically generated just as easily. tends to be an overlooked detail though, since it is pretty deeply ingrained to do an awful lot of exception catching and return value checking
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Apr 22, 2014 22:38
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Otto Skorzeny posted:the return value of malloc is a lie (or if not a lie an equivocation that may as well be a lie) on many OSes anyways. make sure your programs handle SIGKILL intelligently! i know without a doubt they completely handwave all signals in the cs program here up to and including in the 'Unix System Programming' course 
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Apr 22, 2014 22:40
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i also definitely know that several other TA's were surprised by the existence of thread-safe strtok as well as arcane string.h methods as 'strrchr'
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Apr 22, 2014 22:41
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boo. lmk if you remember how you triggered it, i'll try to fix it.
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Apr 22, 2014 22:52
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Otto Skorzeny posted:make sure your programs handle SIGKILL intelligently! that would be a neat trick
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Apr 22, 2014 22:53
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uncurable mlady posted:i know without a doubt they completely handwave all signals in the cs program here up to and including in the 'Unix System Programming' course The correct response to UNIX signals.
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Apr 22, 2014 22:54
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realtime signals also Otto Skorzeny posted:the return value of malloc is a lie (or if not a lie an equivocation that may as well be a lie) on many OSes anyways. make sure your programs handle SIGKILL intelligently! i get to work with a distributed db that the replicas got out of sync. also a few times in pre-prod a shard decided to delete all its data, still trying to figure that one out. we go live in Q2
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Apr 22, 2014 23:04
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Jonny 290 posted:testing is hugely important and nobody wants to do it because you can't add those LOC counts to the finished project and bill the customer for them testing is hugely important and nobody wants to do it because it's boring, thankless and people only ever pay attention to you when something has gone wrong and that's in the best case scenario where your tests are actually working correctly, as opposed to spewing false failures or burning cycles on false passes or just failing to run at all testers are the goalkeepers of software development
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Apr 22, 2014 23:25
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current neckbeard status: installed and now using emacs in order to use agda starting to think about customising it
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Apr 22, 2014 23:28
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qntm posted:testing is hugely important and nobody wants to do it because it's boring, thankless and people only ever pay attention to you when something has gone wrong testing is great because with good tests you can go quickly and keep your barbarian co-workers from loving you over. it's a quality of life investment you make on your own behalf. edit: vvvv is "generative testing" like fuzzing, but without the randomness? my life was dominated by (bugs found by) JavaScript and markup fuzzers for a while, they're worryingly effective. Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Apr 23, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 23:28
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Malcolm XML posted:goddamn does quickcheck own. thanks erlang!!
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Apr 22, 2014 23:30
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MononcQc posted:Y'all need to look into property-based testing because it owns bones whenever it is applicable. Yeah it rocks. Its been really handy for testing this web app I've been building on contract for sea ice observations. Now that I'm in the analysis phase where you take large data sets and run analysis on them, generative testing has been handy as hell. Spend a couple of hours writing a couple of complex generators for the subject and now you can hit all the edge cases you could care for. I've been playing with it in combination with Cucumber and it actually makes a ton of sense to me. Given steps define the input generators, When steps define the actions that take the inputs and do things to them, and then Then steps run the properties against them. Surprisingly good match and makes combinations easy to form so you avoid excessive boilerplate code
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Apr 22, 2014 23:48
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AlsoD posted:current neckbeard status: installed and now using emacs in order to use agda Now you can shave two yaks at once. I recommend saving time by using agda to prove your .emacs is correct.
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Apr 23, 2014 00:32
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Although if you can actually model elisp semantics I'll be impressed.
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Apr 23, 2014 00:33
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there is nothing correct about emacs
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Apr 23, 2014 00:35
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I dunno, buffer local variables are kinda cool.
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Apr 23, 2014 00:36
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Malcolm XML posted:yeah at the $BIGCORP i work at i sat in on a few hiring committees. I took a course in my final year of undergrad that was basically a course on Personal Software Process that was about as close to actual engineering as I've ever seen. It was probably the most useful class I ever took and really helped me stand out from the rest right after graduation.
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Apr 23, 2014 00:44
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Subjunctive posted:boo. lmk if you remember how you triggered it, i'll try to fix it. what happened i think is autocorrect fired off at the same time that an extra character got inserted like it sometimes does i can't t can't i can get the extra character thing to happen if i type i can't t when it autocorrects the apostrophe in, the extra t pops in
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Apr 23, 2014 00:55
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it worked fine until the patch after yospos autocorrect was turned back on iirc
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Apr 23, 2014 00:55
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Janitor Prime posted:I took a course in my final year of undergrad that was basically a course on Personal Software Process that was about as close to actual engineering as I've ever seen. It was probably the most useful class I ever took and really helped me stand out from the rest right after graduation. PSP/TSP is a pretty great dogma, as they go. a previous smallish (15 ppl) company I was at started to do the training just when I left, and I was always sad I missed out on it. uncurable mlady posted:what happened i think is autocorrect fired off at the same time that an extra character got inserted yeah, sounds like an autocomplete interaction gone awry. i'll take a look tonight, I can reproduce at least one case ("ill" then space making "i'll l" with point after the space rather than at the end).
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Apr 23, 2014 01:04
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MononcQc posted:Y'all need to look into property-based testing because it owns bones whenever it is applicable. my faves is how 32-bit fp had all sorts of errors on most machines until peeps went 'fuckit, there are only 4 billion of them' and started doing exhaustive tests which means floats are maybe safer than doubles
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Apr 23, 2014 01:34
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