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BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Intel&Sebastian posted:

Am I wrong on those?

I don't know. I found your post very hard to parse.

The simplest argument I can make for a liveable minimum wage is that the rich have to pay the poor (middle class) at least enough to be able to afford to buy the lovely things that the rich manufacture.

Meaning, if you build cars, HDTV's, phones, computers, horrible pizza, lovely hamburgers or whatever the gently caress it is, what good is it if no one can afford to buy it? At the end of the day, capitalism is a zero sum, winner take all, game (like Monopoly) and that's the problem.

"Job creators" my rear end.

HootTheOwl posted:

Does anyone know where I can get a transcript from today's Sean Hannity radio show?
It was about the Michigan eliminating race criteria for school admissions, and Hannity going on about SAT performance, and concluded with him showing that we need to spend more money on early education and him lamenting that there was no nation-wide inner city effort to do this.

Probably from SeanHannity.com

BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Apr 23, 2014

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BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.
gently caress. Double post.

Intel&Sebastian
Oct 20, 2002

colonel...
i'm trying to sneak around
but i'm dummy thicc
and the clap of my ass cheeks
keeps alerting the guards!

BiggerBoat posted:

I don't know. I found your post very hard to parse.


It's harder to make my first point concise but the second one seems to be the one with the most charge: Any company relying on minimum wage workers right now is essentially having their payroll subsidized by tax money. If tomorrow we passed a law that said "if you have a job, you don't get any gov't benefits" I can think of at least 3 large companies that would be tits up in months as the bulk of their employees wouldn't be able to live.

Why would any self declared conservative put up with that? I don't even know why a tea partying bomb thrower would put up with that. There's some idiotic meme going around that set that says not to investigate any reason beyond the poor person themselves for why they are using gov't benefits (in addition to the idiotic meme that anyone on gov't benefits doesn't have a job) and it seems pretty clearly designed to shield employers from blame or a 2nd thought about how THEY benefit from food stamps, energy assistance, etc.

Think of it this way, no company hires a person at minimum wage if they're creating less than minimum wage in profits. If a person is working minimum wage, creating more benefit for a company than themselves, who exactly is the major benefitee of gov't subsidies of poor people?

Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Apr 23, 2014

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

isildur posted:

There's this. http://nationalreport.net/colorado-governor-set-release-convicted-marijuana-related-charges-expunge-records/

I don't have any idea how reliable this source is. I know that when legalization passed in WA, all investigations and ongoing prosecutions were dropped.

Yeah it's just that the issue is someone who's in jail for say, a bunch of weed and having a little bit of ecstasy would still have the latter part on their record, and may even stay in jail for it.

Mineaiki
Nov 20, 2013

Jerry Manderbilt posted:

That reminds me of this one WSJ article I once saw which basically said "America has gone to poo poo since the Anglo-Saxon elite has lost its self-confidence" and anti-AA arguments saying "but what about all the poor whites?"

How is the confidence thing different from white supremacy? Serious question. "Things are bad because whites are allowing the foreign hordes to ruin our country! Rise up against white genocide!"

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

Mineaiki posted:

How is the confidence thing different from white supremacy? Serious question. "Things are bad because whites are allowing the foreign hordes to ruin our country! Rise up against white genocide!"


How was it intended to be?

Mineaiki
Nov 20, 2013

SedanChair posted:

How was it intended to be?

Reminds me of another time I remember being disgusted at how reprehensibly Right-wing WSJ is:

VideoTapir
Oct 18, 2005

He'll tire eventually.
They look so worried. :ohdear:

Dr.Zeppelin
Dec 5, 2003

Mineaiki posted:

Reminds me of another time I remember being disgusted at how reprehensibly Right-wing WSJ is:



This is also a clueless New Yorker thing to some extent too, though. It's not like the NYT doesn't run articles every week acting like $800,000 isn't that much to spend on a house.

Ghost of Reagan Past
Oct 7, 2003

rock and roll fun

Mineaiki posted:

Reminds me of another time I remember being disgusted at how reprehensibly Right-wing WSJ is:


This graphic is amazing. OH NO A FEW THOUSAND DOLLAR INCREASE IN TAXES WHEN WE MAKE SIX FIGURES WHATEVER SHALL WE DO :ohdear:

It's world's tiniest violin poo poo.

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

Ghost of Reagan Past posted:

This graphic is amazing. OH NO A FEW THOUSAND DOLLAR INCREASE IN TAXES WHEN WE MAKE SIX FIGURES WHATEVER SHALL WE DO :ohdear:

It's world's tiniest violin poo poo.
I'm the retired African-American couple, faces creased with worry over trying to stretch that $15000/month so that it lasts all 30 days.

I'm the single mom, trying to get by on only $5000/wk. Sometimes you just have to make sacrifices for your kids.

Ghost of Reagan Past
Oct 7, 2003

rock and roll fun

FMguru posted:

I'm the retired African-American couple, faces creased with worry over trying to stretch that $15000/month so that it lasts all 30 days.

I'm the single mom, trying to get by on only $5000/wk. Sometimes you just have to make sacrifices for your kids.
I know, maybe she can't go to those fancy $300/person restaurants more than once this week. I weep for her.

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually
Hey, how about some good news? Jon Chait partially redeems his mush-headedness about race with a column gathering up all the evidence of the arrival (like, now) of the Enduring Democratic Majority in his space over at New York Magazine.

quote:

Is the Rising Democratic Majority Doomed?

By Jonathan Chait

The slow, increasingly Democratic cast of the American electorate would seem to be a cardinal fact of American politics. The electorate is firmly polarized, with few voters actually liable to change their minds. The proportion of nonwhite voters has risen by about two percentage points every four years, a rate that seems likely to persist indefinitely as the population grows steadily more diverse. The youngest voting cohort has decidedly more liberal views, and more Democratic voting habits, than its elders, and partisan loyalty tends to stick throughout a voter’s lifetime. And yet the phenomenon continues to be met with an unduly wide, deep array of skepticism.

When Ruy Teixeira and John Judis wrote The Emerging Democratic Majority a dozen years ago, few of us placed much credence in their then-wild-sounding prediction. As recently as two and a half years ago, it was still being ridiculed.

As political events have increasingly borne out the prediction, it has been met with a series of objections, most of which have either been confounded or made no sense to begin with. Consider a few:

Objection: The growth of the Latino vote might stop (Sean Trende).

Result: Nope, the Latino vote has continued to rise.

Objection: Younger millennial voters entering the electorate during the sluggish Obama recovery would turn against him (Dana Milbank, Michael Barone).

Result: No, it turns out “Younger and older millennials also have similar assessments of the job Barack Obama is doing as president.”

Objection: Young voters are “libertarian,” and politically independent, and thus up for grabs (Ron Fournier, Julie Borowski, Nick Gillespie, and pretty much all the libertarians).

Result: This goes in the “never made any sense” category. Like libertarians, millennial voters do tend to have left-wing views on social policy and culture. Very much unlike libertarians, they also tend to have left-wing views on economics. They self-identify as “liberal,” believe the government has a duty to provide health insurance to all Americans, and support “bigger government” in the abstract at a far higher rate than any other age cohort. It’s true that millennial voters self-identify as “independent” more than Democrat, but they vote heavily Democratic. (Political scientists understand that most self-identified “independents” reliably vote for the same party).

**

The most popular new grounds for skepticism hold that the browning of America will provoke a backlash among whites — as the proportion of Latinos and Asians rises, threatened whites will grow increasingly conservative. Versions of this hypothesis have reverberated not only among conservatives like Trende and Barone, but also among liberals like Jamelle Bouie. And this theory does have at least some suggestive evidence that it may be true.

A recent psychological study found that, when researchers read a news story reporting the rising share of minorities in the United States to a group of white subjects, the subjects grew more Republican. The study has attracted widespread attention, confirming the liberal fear, and the conservative hope, that the growth of Asian and Latino voters will produce an offsetting shift to the right among whites. “The changing American polity may come to look more like Texas than like the multicultural Democratic stronghold of California,” concludes political scientist Larry Bartels. “In an increasingly diverse America, identity politics will continue to cut both ways.”

It is certainly plausible that this study portends a future racially polarized America. But it seems strange to treat mass trends in evidence among successive elections involving over 125 million Americans while hanging confident predictions of the future of American politics on a laboratory microsimulation. People are highly susceptible to priming — which is to say, even slight changes to the context in which they make a decision can produce large differences in their actions. Making white people focus on increasing diversity while sitting in a controlled room may cause them to immediately report more conservative beliefs. That does not necessarily tell you what the open vista of American politics, a vast ecosystem teeming with messages and context of all kinds, will look like.
We got this.

In the same column in which he touts the white-fear study, Bartels touts a second research experiment. This one shows that when Asian-American students are subjected to an experimenter questioning their citizenship, their Democratic partisanship shoots up. This finding would certainly help explain Asian-Americans’ durable Democratic leanings, which — given their relative affluence — has frustrated Republicans. Bartels concludes instead that it augurs well for Republicans, since, he argues, “such experiences of social exclusion based on ethnicity will probably be less common in 20 years, when there are likely to be 50 percent more Asian-Americans and 50 percent more Hispanic-Americans than there are now.”

This is also a plausible way to imagine the future of the United States — in an increasingly diverse country, racial harmony prevails, and the feelings of exclusion that have driven growing segments of Asian-American (and, perhaps, Latinos) into the arms of the Democrats will melt away, allowing them to melt into the political mainstream just as previous generations of Irish- and Italian-Americans did.

Yet it’s important to note that this scenario is almost impossible to reconcile with the other scenario Bartels describes in the very same column. On the one hand, he predicts that rising diversity creates a growing racial backlash among increasingly resentful whites. On the other hand, he predicts that the decline of racial tensions will make minorities forget their outsiderness and start voting Republican. How could both these things happen at once?

**

Let us pull back for a moment and reassess what we know about the future. Predicting it is hard. The farther off into the future one extends a prediction, the less likely it is to come true. We do, however, have some relatively solid data and relatively solid guidelines to help us understand where the observable trends in American politics will take us.

In the medium term, we appear to have entered a period in which Democrats command a normal advantage in presidential elections. That doesn’t mean Democrats will dominate Congress — both the House and Senate maps geographically favor Republicans, and Democratic constituents reliably fail to turn out during midterm elections. It also doesn’t mean Democrats will always win a national election. Republicans probably held such an advantage from 1968 through at least 1988, but right in the midst of that period, the Watergate scandal created a massive Democratic wave in 1974 and a narrow Democratic win two years later. A major scandal or a recession would almost surely hand Republicans the White House. Still, it seems to be the case that the Republican coalition in its present form cannot win a presidential election without a major tailwind.

It is also safe to say that this condition will not hold forever and ever. In the long run, two rational political parties will move toward equilibrium. The Republicans will move toward the center, the Democrats will move left, or, more likely, both will happen. Or possibly something major will happen to shatter the political landscape, in the way the racial conflagrations of the 1960s broke up the New Deal coalition. (Many people believed 9/11 would play just such a role on behalf of the Republicans, but the effect faded, or arguably backfired, when it drove a Republican administration to launch a bungled invasion of Iraq.)

My belief, of which I obviously can’t be certain, is that conservatism as we know it is doomed. I believe this because the virulent opposition to the welfare state we see here is almost completely unique among major conservative parties across the world. In no other advanced country do leading figures of governing parties propose the denial of medical care to their citizens or take their ideological inspiration from crackpots like Ayn Rand. America’s unique brand of ideological anti-statism is historically inseparable (as I recently argued) from the legacy of slavery. Whatever form America’s polyglot majority ultimately takes, it is hard to see the basis for its attraction to an ideology sociologically rooted in white supremacy.

In the meantime, speculation about the long-term shape of American politics should give way to a recognition of the seismic changes already underway. Something very major is happening to the electorate right now, and for the time being, we know exactly how it works.
:toot:

tl;dr - the long-predicted (and long-ridiculed) Emerging Democratic Majority has emerged, every single one of the arguments against it has been proved false, people (especially in the GOP) seem to be in deep denial about this and really need to update their worldview in order to adapt to the new multiracial order.

Assepoester
Jul 18, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
Melman v2
http://sebaygo1.blogspot.com/2014/04/can-you-make-sense-of-this.html (MP3 embedded)

From today's Alex Jones Show, a two and a half minute rant about the internet being sentient, rings of power and palantirs ("seeing stones" from the Tolkien books), and more. There's half a reference to the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory wherein he interrupts himself and finishes the sentence with "squared to infinity!"

Download: http://www.sendspace.com/file/asw1jj

And the "news" that he mentions toward the end, as he asserts that most of the time he knows what the news is going to be even before it breaks, is hardly news. It's the title of an article posted on Gizmodo.com in July 2010 -- Seven People Have Been Entrusted With the Keys to the Internet -- and these keys don't seem to resemble the "rings of power" supposedly given to Apple and Microsoft, et al. See more on that here and here and here.

But seriously, do YOU understand what Alex was trying to say? Was he rational? Was he simply making a uniquely flavored word salad?


:shrug:

anonumos
Jul 14, 2005

Fuck it.
"Resentful whites". What a crock of poo poo. Call me a race traitor, but I welcome growing diversity. The implication that 'whites' will react negatively to a diverse country is rather insulting.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

anonumos posted:

"Resentful whites". What a crock of poo poo. Call me a race traitor, but I welcome growing diversity. The implication that 'whites' will react negatively to a diverse country is rather insulting.

Are you really taking issue with it? Resentful whites are a big enough group that I think they're worth talking about. If you're not resentful they weren't talking about you.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

anonumos posted:

"Resentful whites". What a crock of poo poo. Call me a race traitor, but I welcome growing diversity. The implication that 'whites' will react negatively to a diverse country is rather insulting.

Shut up honky

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-


Pillbug

anonumos posted:

"Resentful whites". What a crock of poo poo. Call me a race traitor, but I welcome growing diversity. The implication that 'whites' will react negatively to a diverse country is rather insulting.

I'm going to assume that you aren't old because it's primarily old, wealthy whites, men in particular, that are lamenting the fact that whites won't be in charge by default anymore. Look at the voting records from the last election. Old, white dudes overwhelmingly voted for Romney but pretty much every other demographic pulled that level for Oblammo just as hard.

The thing I've asked Republicans I know time and time again is a simple question; I'm a guy with Slavic descent from a poor background. I'm a second-class white at best. There was a period of time I'd have starved if it wasn't for food stamps and if it wasn't for free government money I'd never be going to college right now. I'm a lot of things the GOP openly hates and Republican policy, if they had their way, would have left me starving to death an uneducated second-class citizen. I'm not a Christian either so "force everybody to follow God's law" just doesn't jive well with me. Why would I vote for a Republican in any election, ever?

They don't have an answer.

isildur
May 31, 2000

BattleDroids: Flashpoint OH NO! Dekker! IS DOWN! THIS IS Glitch! Taking Command! THIS IS Glich! Taking command! OH NO! Glitch! IS DOWN! THIS IS Medusa! Taking command! THIS IS Medusa! Taking command! OH NO! Medusa IS DOWN!

Soon to be part of the Battletech Universe canon.

ToxicSlurpee posted:

They don't have an answer.

But they do have a solution: make it harder and harder for people like you to vote, and structure the election system in such a way as to minimize or eliminate the effects of your vote.

My only real worry about the Inevitable Demographics Tide thing is the lengths to which the Republicans seem willing to go to prevent their enemies from having any influence over elections at all. I can easily see this Supreme Court upholding some less egregious flavor of voter ID laws, for instance.

Intel&Sebastian
Oct 20, 2002

colonel...
i'm trying to sneak around
but i'm dummy thicc
and the clap of my ass cheeks
keeps alerting the guards!

quote:

I believe this because the virulent opposition to the welfare state we see here is almost completely unique among major conservative parties across the world. In no other advanced country do leading figures of governing parties propose the denial of medical care to their citizens or take their ideological inspiration from crackpots like Ayn Rand.

Gee, if you had taken the superfuntime blindfold of ignorance off a bit earlier maybe today you wouldn't be writing sad fantasy fan-fiction about all the incredible ways the white man could get back on top.

Guilty Spork
Feb 26, 2011

Thunder rolled. It rolled a six.

anonumos posted:

"Resentful whites". What a crock of poo poo. Call me a race traitor, but I welcome growing diversity. The implication that 'whites' will react negatively to a diverse country is rather insulting.
I've lived in Northern California all my life, and being around nothing but white people is really weird and creepy to me. When I hear there are going to be Mexicans everywhere it's like, "Oh, so the rest of the country is going to be more like here? Sounds good."

dreffen
Dec 3, 2005

MEDIOCRE, MORSOV!

Mineaiki posted:

Reminds me of another time I remember being disgusted at how reprehensibly Right-wing WSJ is:



It spawned an amusing gif at least.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Ghost of Reagan Past posted:

This graphic is amazing. OH NO A FEW THOUSAND DOLLAR INCREASE IN TAXES WHEN WE MAKE SIX FIGURES WHATEVER SHALL WE DO :ohdear:

It's world's tiniest violin poo poo.

I like how the lowest income bracket is $180,000. Why it's almost as if the makers of this cartoon don't understand what it means to be poor. I mean EVERYONE makes at least $180k, right?

My family doesn't

Mineaiki
Nov 20, 2013

I mean every single person in America is a doctor, financier, or a lawyer married to another professional, right?

N. Senada
May 17, 2011

My kidneys are busted
Every single real American, yes.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Mineaiki posted:

I mean every single person in America is a doctor, financier, or a lawyer married to another professional, right?

Every single person who counts.

eviltastic
Feb 8, 2004

Fan of Britches
Clearly, when discussing someone's income, the most natural number to reference is calculated pretax taxable income, including all available deductions, because that's how ordinary people discuss money.

thefncrow
Mar 14, 2001

isildur posted:

I can easily see this Supreme Court upholding some less egregious flavor of voter ID laws, for instance.

You realize they already have, right? Crawford v. Marion County was decided in 2008, upholding a voter ID law.

That was a really disgusting decision because Stevens voted with the majority and wrote the decision, with his rationale being basically "People just have to go to a DMV to get an ID, and if that's too difficult for them, tough poo poo."

ClothHat
Mar 2, 2005

ASK ME ABOUT MY LOVE OF THE LUMPEN-GOBLITARIAT
protip: trust no links I post
Uhhhhh, doesn't everybody have income from investments equal to what a normal person makes in addition to their salary?

Zuhzuhzombie!!
Apr 17, 2008
FACTS ARE A CONSPIRACY BY THE CAPITALIST OPRESSOR
They were too busy patting themselves on the back for remembering to make an all inclusive graphic.

King Metal
Jun 15, 2001
I would if LIEberals would stop tying my bootstraps down

fade5
May 31, 2012

by exmarx

Guilty Spork posted:

I've lived in Northern California all my life, and being around nothing but white people is really weird and creepy to me. When I hear there are going to be Mexicans everywhere it's like, "Oh, so the rest of the country is going to be more like here? Sounds good."
Change Northern California to San Antonio, and this 100% me.:hfive: San Antonio has literally been Majority Minority since before I was born; the fact that conservatives are scared of something I consider normal, everyday life is endlessly amusing to me. It's like being scared of grass growing or the sky being blue.

Mineaiki posted:

How is the confidence thing different from white supremacy? Serious question. "Things are bad because whites are allowing the foreign hordes to ruin our country! Rise up against white genocide!"
I posted this a little while back in the Political Cartoons thread, but here, enjoy Pat Buchanan lamenting the death of White America. Oh, and bonus points for using literal white supremacist language:

Pat Buchanan posted:

Yet the matter cannot be avoided now, for it is on page one. "White Numbers Shrink," was the headline on the lead story in USA Today. "More Whites Dying Than Being Born," blared The Wall Street Journal. What does this mean? In demographic terms, more white Americans died in 2012 than were born. Never before -- not during the Civil War bloodletting, not during the influenza epidemic after World War I, not during the Great Depression and birth dearth of the 1930s -- has this happened.

In ethnic terms, it means that Americans whose forebears came from Great Britain, Ireland and Germany, Southern and Eastern Europe -- the European tribes of North America -- have begun to die. The demographic winter of white America is at hand, even as it began years ago for the native-born of old Europe. In political terms, this is depressing news for the Republican Party. For nearly 90 percent of all Republican votes in presidential elections are provided by Americans of European descent.

anonumos posted:

"Resentful whites". What a crock of poo poo. Call me a race traitor, but I welcome growing diversity. The implication that 'whites' will react negatively to a diverse country is rather insulting.
I will admit, I absolutely cannot understand the right's fear of multiculturalism. I loving love multiculturalism, hell, right now San Antonio's in the middle of our annual two week Fiesta party.

Now doesn't that look like fun? Who could be scared of that?:)

agarjogger
May 16, 2011
They keep a (rather short) list of things and people not to be afraid of, adding to it on rare occasion. Emotionally healthy adults do it the other way around.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
Yes! It's sombrero guy!



america.png

beatlegs
Mar 11, 2001

edit: sorry wrong forum

beatlegs fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Apr 23, 2014

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012

fade5 posted:

I will admit, I absolutely cannot understand the right's fear of multiculturalism. I loving love multiculturalism, hell, right now San Antonio's in the middle of our annual two week Fiesta party.

Now doesn't that look like fun? Who could be scared of that?:)

Yeah I never understood that whole deal.

Imagine how boring the US would be without the various types of people coming over here and sharing their customs, ideas and culture?

Really, the people that are being Un-American are idiots like "The Minutemen", and other folks of their ilk. :911:.

Star Man
Jun 1, 2008

There's a star maaaaaan
Over the rainbow
This whole brouhaha about whites being the minority is ridiculous. The people making a fuss about it are looking at it like it's "whites 49%, 51% everything else."

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

fade5 posted:

I will admit, I absolutely cannot understand the right's fear of multiculturalism. I loving love multiculturalism, hell, right now San Antonio's in the middle of our annual two week Fiesta party.

Now doesn't that look like fun? Who could be scared of that?:)

SJW's who would call that cultural appropriation

menino
Jul 27, 2006

Pon De Floor

Star Man posted:

This whole brouhaha about whites being the minority is ridiculous. The people making a fuss about it are looking at it like it's "whites 49%, 51% everything else."

Yeah whites will never be a minority in my lifetime. Plurality yes, minority no.

If you want to know how things will go just look at sweet home Chicago. Whites are less than 40% of the population but still dominate politics because they can play the Latinos off the blacks. Executive is a milquetoast Democrat who hates unions and worked at a bank before. The future US in a microcosm.

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moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



dreffen posted:

It spawned an amusing gif at least.



Henry offense?

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