|
Uggghh god if they're so pissed off about jagers just roll eurocorps and take Chasseurs instead. Or god forbid actually do the optimal thing and bring three cards of FSJ anyway (FSJ '75 are better than every other squad in the game except FSJ '90).Hubis posted:Meanwhile, I know, right? If they don't want their pgrens I will happily take them off their hands. I hope you like your only good squad coming in loving LVTPs! And having a LAW with 13AP. Prawned posted:I love how you can tell the guys that literally only play one nation, DER VADER LANDE. I only played US and NSWP for like a month because I couldn't be bothered to make more decks since it's so time consuming sifting through all the chaff.
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 16:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 22:35 |
|
|
Mortabis posted:I know, right? If they don't want their pgrens I will happily take them off their hands. I hope you like your only good squad coming in loving LVTPs! And having a LAW with 13AP. They also hate Marders. You know, the 20 point IFV with a loving awesome ATGM and a great autocannon. They're completely obsessed with the fact that Marder isn't wheeled, so in their eyes it's completely useless and never worth taking. Which also makes Pgrens never worth taking.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 16:25
|
|
|
Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Maybe that's why they decided to stop Wargame for a bit and go back to Act of War. Good luck milsperging out about a futuristic C&C like RTS with stealth tanks and power armour. Excuse me, I know for a fact that a railgun of the length depicted on the tank would accelerate the projectile to Mach 4.5 instead of Mach 3.9 as the game declares. Clearly the railgun tanks are underpowered and should be given additional AP and damage. Furthermore I was deeply disappointed when i found out that the game doesn't model the heat issues railgun projectiles develop. Enemy infantry in the path of the projectile should take damage from the heatwave of the passing projectile. Milsperging will be harder, but SciFi nerds are a voracious bunch. Most of them know just enough about something to get it hilariously wrong. Panzeh posted:I think the German fanboys have replaced the British fanboys as the most annoying nationalists on the eugen forums. I'm German and I like playing Germany and even I found it painfully obvious that the FSJ90 would be nerfed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 16:25
|
|
|
ArchangeI posted:Excuse me, I know for a fact that a railgun of the length depicted on the tank would accelerate the projectile to Mach 4.5 instead of Mach 3.9 as the game declares. Clearly the railgun tanks are underpowered and should be given additional AP and damage. Furthermore I was deeply disappointed when i found out that the game doesn't model the heat issues railgun projectiles develop. Enemy infantry in the path of the projectile should take damage from the heatwave of the passing projectile. They'll also complain that the YF-23 isn't as good as an F-22 and obviously it can't carry x bomb and y missile because the avionics package blah blah blah and Delta Force would totally not lose to a force of AK-47 wielding brown terrorists that outnumber them 3:1. I wonder if Eugen will go back to finite resources + expensive infinite resources for Act of Whatever. Hopefully with less micro when it comes to capturing PoWs (for those that haven't played it, yes PoWs were the source of infinite income in Act of War). DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Apr 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 16:28
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:They also hate Marders. You know, the 20 point IFV with a loving awesome ATGM and a great autocannon. They're completely obsessed with the fact that Marder isn't wheeled, so in their eyes it's completely useless and never worth taking. Which also makes Pgrens never worth taking. Pgrens are never worth taking for a completely different reason, which is that you should be filling up all your infantry slots with borderline OP fallschirmjagers and Deckungsgruppe in Marders anyway. In other words, because despite pgrens being awesome you have other options which are even better. Mortabis fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Apr 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 16:28
|
|
|
Mortabis posted:Pgrens are never worth taking for a completely different reason, which is that you should be filling up all your infantry squads with borderline OP fallschirmjagers and Deckungsgruppe in Marders anyway. In other words, because despite pgrens being awesome you have other options which are even better. Oh I know that, but these guys are completely obsessed with Pgrens, and if they can't use Pgrens because Marders aren't wheeled (and therefore the worst transport in the game) then Pgrens need to be buffed. They just have to use Pgrens, no matter that they've got better infantry that does the same thing better.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 16:31
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:They also hate Marders. You know, the 20 point IFV with a loving awesome ATGM and a great autocannon. They're completely obsessed with the fact that Marder isn't wheeled, so in their eyes it's completely useless and never worth taking. Which also makes Pgrens never worth taking. Okay to be fair the Marder 1A3 really needs 2 cards if you want to get a whole game's worth of shock infantry in them. I just loaded up the deck builder and found that you can't really take your two specialist infantry in Fuchs, two cards of PGrens in Marder 1A3s, and FSJ '90s -- OH WAIT YOU CAN!  Seriously, I think PGrens in Marder 1A3s are so goddamn good for their price that sacrificing Deckungsgruppe or Jags in Fuchs or FSJ 75 is a completely fair tradeoff. Or you can take your fifth infantry card and live with only 7 20 point IFVs that were what, 45 points in ALB?For giggles: Replace the Marder 1A3 with a BTR-90 with MARDER painted crudely on the side, with the 35 point price tag and either 8 with Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Apr 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 16:35
|
|
|
If I was any good with image programs I'd go through the armory and make a comparison image of Marder vs other 20 point transports. It's absurd how good the Marder is. VTT-232 Susong-Po, OT-62 Vydra II, OT-64C, etc. The loving BMP-2 is 25 points and so much worse than a Marder. And I don't even want the Marder nerfed. I'd want ever strong workhorse IFV to be at that level at that price, and the worse transports cheaper. Edit: I guess I got an avatar.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 16:44
|
|
|
How's it stack up with the
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 16:46
|
|
|
Davin Valkri posted:How's it stack up with the That is an excellent question. Let's start with the bad news: The US price equivalent to the Marder? M113A3 Super Dragon. Yes, your lovely Gavin with a slightly less lovely Dragon is what you get for the same amount of points. The good news: The Bushmaster (behind the scenes HE/AP weirdness aside, which I wouldn't discount) is a better autocannon. The worse news, apart from that the cheapest Bradley (5 points more expensive than a Marder) has an ATGM that is a joke. To get an ATGM that is better you need to get the Bradley for a whopping 35 points - which is just 5 points less than 2 Marders. Oh yeah and except for that last 35 point Bradley all the others (all of them, more expensive than a Marder) also have much worse armor. The Marder - a terrible deal according to the German Community. Edit: Seriously, the M113 Super Dragon is 20 points. What. The. gently caress. That makes the VTT-232 ATGM look like a good deal.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 16:52
|
|
|
Slightly cheaper and arguably better than the M2 Bradley. More heavily armored than any Bradley, but the I-TOW on the M2A1 and the TOW 2 and M2A2 are just better missiles than a MILAN 2. You can buy 2 Marder 1A3s for the price of one M2A2 Bradley though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 16:54
|
|
|
The answer to most of these West German complaints should really just be "gently caress you, play Eurocorps". I mean, it's one thing to be mad about massive weaknesses in a national deck, but West Germany is certainly capable of at least *dealing* with most threats on their own and absolutely has *strengths* that can be accentuated and played to in a national deck. A National / Specialized deck should be playable so long as you know and focus on its strengths, which West Germany definitely is.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:01
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:Oh I know that, but these guys are completely obsessed with Pgrens, and if they can't use Pgrens because Marders aren't wheeled (and therefore the worst transport in the game) then Pgrens need to be buffed. They just have to use Pgrens, no matter that they've got better infantry that does the same thing better. No, the best bit is that they absolutely need to use Panzergrenadiers for everything except what they are, which is being very good infantry with support from very good IFVs. The Marders are cheap enough to fill the cheap tank infantry support role in forests, to risk putting ahead of the pgrens to eat rys shots (seriously, the pgrens are a great way to deal with spets and li jian and the German contingent can't help but cry incessantly about those guys being good against infantry because apparently you can get VDV '85 and Spets for not noticeably more than two squads of pgrens with two Marders). The Panzergrenadiers are what the name says and are ridiculously, fantastically good at it, and they refuse to not hate them because they're different. But they have to play West German only against their strengths and heavens forbid you suggest that if they want to play West German infantry like they're French infantry maybe they should play Eurocorps, because apparently asymmetric balance isn't different but valid ways of doing things, it's "gently caress you, we get the terminator for no good reason and he's way underpriced but this is just our national advantage nerf spetsnaz".
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:06
|
|
|
West Germany needs a buff because all its good tanks are tracked
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:09
|
|
|
No love for East Germany? Or are they waiting for their army upgrade to cry about them?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:11
|
|
|
Can someone explain to me why wheeled APCs are supposed to be vastly superior to tracked ones?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:19
|
|
|
Dramicus posted:Can someone explain to me why wheeled APCs are supposed to be vastly superior to tracked ones? The first guy to the city doesn't have to put any mental effort into capturing that zone. If you are using tracked APCs you will get there second, and therefore have to expand a modicum of thought in how you approach the tactical challenge.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:21
|
|
|
edit: ^^ Yes, although I've won a ton of games by arriving there second and just oblitterating an enemy's opening because he things getting there "fustest with the mostest" will be sufficient to win the fight.Dramicus posted:Can someone explain to me why wheeled APCs are supposed to be vastly superior to tracked ones? Wheeled vehicles have a road speed of 150 kph versus 110 kph for tracked. Tactically, this means that wheeled vehicles can be used as an opening to counter early helo pushes for near goals and generally "land grab" better. After the opening, it means that it takes 30% less time for the infantry to get to the front, which can be 30s or more on the larger maps. Honestly, people complaining about not being able to take PzGrens in fast units are complaining about not being able to play a style that West Germany is not really built for. It's not like they have any lack of helicopters for rapid deployment.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:23
|
|
|
God forbid you have to take your other ridiculously good infantry (FSJ90) in CH-53Gs or Fuchs at the start of the match and bring your pgrens in later.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:25
|
|
|
Davin Valkri posted:No love for East Germany? Or are they waiting for their army upgrade to cry about them? I think you're right there - the people that play only minor nations (if they exist) are still waiting to see what they get in the DLC. Speaking of Minors, are there any big holes in those coalitions that need DLC units? Scandinavia and the eastern europe block seem pretty okay in Coalition form. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Apr 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:28
|
|
|
Davin Valkri posted:No love for East Germany? Or are they waiting for their army upgrade to cry about them? There are already people on the forums saying how, with the wall staying up, East Germany totally would have gotten Mi-28s and Tunguska-Ms. That patch is going to be a fountain of tears.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:30
|
|
|
Complaining about "The guys with Fuchs" as having not enough fast transportation is insane. Gibbering, slobbering insanity. Freud refused to try to treat psychosis, since he considered it too hard to communicate with them.DatonKallandor posted:I think you're right there - the people that play only minor nations (if they exist) are still waiting to see what they get in the DLC. Honestly they feel pretty good to me. They could use heavy armor? I don't even know man.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:35
|
|
|
pedro0930 posted:I wish moving from city block to city block can be more reliable. It's better than ALB now, but I still get troops refusing to get into building when they reach the boarder of the block and decided to run around in circle while getting shot at. I think it might have something to do with platoon formation. Is there some kind of trick that I am not aware of? Lone squad seems much better at not doing this (and I can always hit stop to make it move into building once it's close enough in that case, with platoon that's too spread out sometimes they teleport back to the building they just came out of.) What I found in my beta play was instead of issuing attack commands on the next block, which would just make your infantry move out of cover and stand in the open shooting like idiots, was to give a move command to to the opposite side of the buildings you want to occupy with the straightest A to B line you can make. As soon as the infantry cross the line defining the new block, hit stop. They will auto teleport into that building set. To do this across a block quickly, tell them to move out of a block at the closest point to your next entry point, give the same move, and hit stop again. They will teleport to closest point they can leave the block from, move, and enter as soon as they stop. You can move stuff like reservists through a large town in like 5-8 seconds this way, was one of the big reasons I loved NK reservists so much, because with this you could put them in any building you wanted at will and watch the SMG magic happen. Mazz fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Apr 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:37
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:Speaking of Minors, are there any big holes in those coalitions that need DLC units? Scandinavia and the eastern europe block seem pretty okay in Coalition form. Only thing I can think of is a heavier tank for the Nordic guys. Every other coalition has access to 100+ point tanks, even NSWP through Poland's T-72 upgrades!
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:37
|
|
|
Scandinavia needs an AA chopper and a heavy tank but is not likely to get either. I think they should get Strv 122 and some kind of Huey with Stingers strapped to it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:39
|
|
|
Hubis posted:edit: ^^ Yes, although I've won a ton of games by arriving there second and just oblitterating an enemy's opening because he things getting there "fustest with the mostest" will be sufficient to win the fight. The more I play RD the more I am enjoying it. I don't know if it is entirely related to changes in game mechanics or due to personal growth, I am closing in on over 300 hours for the series, but I really enjoy taking cities. So showing up second doesn't bother me at all, especially if I remembered to bring a flame tank with my opener  . Win or lose I really will enjoy a match as long as I have ruined some pub lord's sim city.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:41
|
|
|
Mazz posted:What I found in my beta play was instead of issuing attack commands on the next block, which would just make your infantry move out of cover and stand in the open shooting like idiots, was to give a move command to to the opposite side of the buildings you want to occupy, in the straightest A to B line you can make. As soon as the infantry cross the line defining the new block, hit stop. They will auto teleport into that building set. When you're not in direct combat, but you wanna make sure your infantry gets where you want it to go fairly quickly, like repositioning in a city, you can shift-click garrison sectors in sequence. That'll make them get from one block to the next over the shortest possible non-garrison distance, with about 2 seconds of pause every time they enter a new block. With constant micro you can almost certainly make them move faster, but it's nice to be able to just queue some move orders and know the infantry is going to get where you want it reasonably quickly. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Apr 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:42
|
|
|
Did I miss something or do US Marines no longer come in LAV-25s? If that's the case I guess its due to 15 guys somehow fitting in the space of 6. Still, kinda miss em.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:50
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:When you're not in direct combat, but you wanna make sure your infantry gets where you want it to go fairly quickly, like repositioning in a city, you can shift-click garrison sectors in sequence. That'll make them get from one block to the next over the shortest possible non-garrison distance, with about 2 seconds of pause every time they enter a new block. With constant micro you can almost certainly make them move faster, but it's nice to be able to just queue some move orders and know the infantry is going to get where you want it reasonably quickly. Yeah, I just got used to doing it by hand because I tended to dump my infantry as close as possible with the APCs, and they'd already be in combat. But this does work too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:52
|
|
|
Dramicus posted:Did I miss something or do US Marines no longer come in LAV-25s? If that's the case I guess its due to 15 guys somehow fitting in the space of 6. Still, kinda miss em. Yes, and it's complete bullshit, and the 6 man thing is exactly why. Although they now claim it's because of ~~doctrine~~ or something, like it's not part of "official USMC doctrine" to carry marines inside LAVs.  This is because they have to justify the change alongside allowing VDV to ride in BMDs (which hold 3 or 4 men depending on source), riflemen in Bradleys (6 men), etc. This does not explain why they haven't given them Humvees back, or given Humvees to Mountaineers.VVVV Nope!
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:55
|
|
|
Dramicus posted:Did I miss something or do US Marines no longer come in LAV-25s? If that's the case I guess its due to 15 guys somehow fitting in the space of 6. Still, kinda miss em. That is exactly the reason. Now they come in Humvees, which offer much more space.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 17:55
|
|
|
ArchangeI posted:That is exactly the reason. Now they come in Humvees, which offer much more space. I highly recommend you watch Generation Kill, a mini series about a bunch of marines driving around in Humvees, then come back and attribute any logic to even a 10 man rifle squad clown caring out of one  . So I am going to go ahead and declare "capacity" a bullshit argument across the board.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 18:21
|
|
|
A HMMWV has spots for four people and a gunner, and since it can still shoot and drive when the infantry dismounts in the game that would mean it can effectively carry 3 dismounts. So, yeah capacity is obviously not an issue.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 18:29
|
|
|
Xerxes17 posted:I dearly wish that all forums had Something awful style moderation. Custom titles for known shitposters would loving own.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 18:45
|
|
|
Dandywalken posted:Custom titles for known shitposters would loving own. Basically everyone would have red titles. The forums would probably be more lucrative than the games.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 18:57
|
|
|
So since it's the last Wargame and I'm in a retrospective mood - can we now definitely say that the first-one-is-free aim time change was as a whole a really bad one? I mean the entire dedicated ATGM vehicle section is a complete and utter mess because of it, and it made forest fights really swingy and odd, especially where they involve infantry.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 19:00
|
|
|
It's really weird having infantry get remorselessly wrecked by light tanks (especially in campaigns because oh my god the vet the computer gets) because they take a shot before the infantry kills them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 19:23
|
|
|
I get a bit nostalgic for EE infantry, where Delta/VZPU had 3 HE rifles, and tanks had zero business trying to go into wooded areas. But yeah, the aim time change is definitely strange in this regard. At the same time, it is a nice addition when your trying to do pop-up-and-shoot stuff, like on inclines. Then again I also get a bit nostalgic for the EE heavy tank meta, which I feel like very few people but me actually liked. This is funny to me though because it was probably the most interesting meta in terms of understanding small unit tactics and their relation to actual game play mechanics (like positioning, morale and side shots) out of any we've had. Sure you built the same tank composition pretty much every game, but having one big tank battle with 5-6 heavies with misc. support and positioning tactics was generally pretty awesome any way you sliced it. Going from 1650 to 1930 on the back of those games probably isn't helping my skewed perspective much though. Mazz fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Apr 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 19:33
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:So since it's the last Wargame and I'm in a retrospective mood - can we now definitely say that the first-one-is-free aim time change was as a whole a really bad one? I mean the entire dedicated ATGM vehicle section is a complete and utter mess because of it, and it made forest fights really swingy and odd, especially where they involve infantry. I always thought Hamburger Hill was a huge slog in EE and would have worked great in ALB but then they went and removed all the forests and made it imbalanced and dull.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 20:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 22:35 |
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:So since it's the last Wargame and I'm in a retrospective mood - can we now definitely say that the first-one-is-free aim time change was as a whole a really bad one? I mean the entire dedicated ATGM vehicle section is a complete and utter mess because of it, and it made forest fights really swingy and odd, especially where they involve infantry. Yes. Also, I think anything that counts as a "Technical" should be given "Medium" stealth.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 20:21
|
|