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Apr 21, 2014 14:02
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Xom posted:
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Apr 21, 2014 14:14
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Xom posted:
It looks like B can play at B1 to kill. W B1 is seki.
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Apr 21, 2014 14:31
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Move 140 dreamy [2d]: humph dreamy [2d]: overlook? Sweetrip [9d]: i didnt, but i hoped you would not see it rsun [5d]: ... Move 138 nhanh [2d]:  Shadows [-]: awh Move 137 dreamy [2d]: zzz dreamy [2d]: greedy rsun [5d]: what just happened? Sweetrip [9d]: sorry, i learn to be greedy from yoy Sweetrip [9d]: you* peso [2d]: 9d undo? dreamy [2d]: :O Sweetrip [9d]: :P Kheldragar [10k]: 9d undo. Move 139 hktv [4d]: 9d undo rsun [5d]: is w really andy liu???
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Apr 22, 2014 04:12
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Kheldragar posted:Move 140 So is that the typical grammar of online GO?
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Apr 22, 2014 04:36
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Yes Does anyone know if the elementary Cho problems at http://tsumego.tasuki.org are allowed to depend on ko? I thought not, but the deeper I go, the more doubtful I get.
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Apr 22, 2014 14:06
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SOme of them have Ko or seki as answer, yes
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Apr 22, 2014 14:09
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Some of them don't even have answers. Cho's a tricky man.
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Apr 22, 2014 17:40
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Reposting the Cho.
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Apr 22, 2014 18:10
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goodness posted:So is that the typical grammar of online GO? I think we're missing the part where a kgs 9d thought that he could get away with a 2d not seeing a move.
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Apr 22, 2014 22:35
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Tarezax posted:It looks like B can play at B1 to kill. I believe this is correct. If Black B1, he can almost-almost fill with a rabbity six and then, if White does not capture (and thus die by vital point placement), Black can fill all the outside liberties and win the capturing race with one eye against zero eyes.
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Apr 22, 2014 23:05
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Kheldragar posted:I think we're missing the part where a kgs 9d thought that he could get away with a 2d not seeing a move. The fact that RL amateur ranks only go up to 7d should be a tip-off that a KGS 9d is someone who, although strong at Go, has equal knowledge of KGS's absurd rating system, an unhealthy interest in rating, and no shame. If KGS didn't hard cap ratings at 9d, I'm pretty sure we'd have a few "15d" by now.
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Apr 22, 2014 23:38
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xopods posted:The fact that RL amateur ranks only go up to 7d should be a tip-off that a KGS 9d is someone who, although strong at Go, has equal knowledge of KGS's absurd rating system, an unhealthy interest in rating, and no shame. If KGS didn't hard cap ratings at 9d, I'm pretty sure we'd have a few "15d" by now. I don't get it. If you play games, you'll eventually come to a rank where your wins and losses are about 50/50. What's so special about 9d over 7d that they're "gaming the system" to get their inflated rank? I was just commenting that one of the top players on kgs, although playing a much weaker opponet, thought that another dan would overlook the move. You can go over sweetrip's game with the H6 to see if the move seems obvious enough or not. It's not like I'm playing a 20k and think I can get away with leaving a weakness behind because they won't see it. 20k players are still new, 2 dans are not.
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Apr 23, 2014 00:17
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xopods posted:The fact that RL amateur ranks only go up to 7d should be a tip-off that a KGS 9d is someone who, although strong at Go, has equal knowledge of KGS's absurd rating system, an unhealthy interest in rating, and no shame. If KGS didn't hard cap ratings at 9d, I'm pretty sure we'd have a few "15d" by now. Or he is Andy Liu, one of the first new american professional players.
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Apr 23, 2014 02:38
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sensual donkey punching posted:Or he is Andy Liu, one of the first new american professional players. Well then he should have 1p. 
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Apr 23, 2014 02:43
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Even in these sadly diminished times, if you hold KGS 9d and can play competitively against most of the other KGS 9d on the server, you can entertain a professional player (or you are one, or have been one in the past - many KGS 9d accounts are owned by professional players). That's some pretty overstated hate for an essentially sound ranking system.
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Apr 23, 2014 03:24
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sensual donkey punching posted:if you hold KGS 9d and can play competitively against most of the other KGS 9d on the server Okay, and how often do you see 9d vs. 9d? Or, really, anyone above about 5d who isn't playing 0:10/move ultrablitz?
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Apr 23, 2014 03:36
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Not very often, because KGS is in decline. Also not very often because many of the players strong enough to hold 9d don't play during EST evening hours. http://www.gokgs.com/top100.jsp Most of the 9d in that list are either socially known alts for strong players, or have long histories on kgs. (i.e., Sweetrip for the former category, and kghin in the latter category). The same goes for the not so large list of 8d and 7d. If you look at their games in the archive, you can judge how legitimate the records are for yourself. But if you haven't seen many of them play yourself, why talk trash about them? Most of the games between the strong players are blitz, just like on every other go server east or west. But not all of them - you should be able to find slow games in the history of most of the players in that list. There's nothing instrinsic to KGS's ranking system preventing strong players from meeting to play frequently, there has just been a gradual decline in the population of strong players over most of the past decade. The strong players who are left still come because they have been playing each other for years and enjoy the social setting of the server. You might be convinced that some of the blitz players on KGS have artificially inflated ranks due to blitz nonsense, but I would disagree that the majority of them are meaningfully weaker than similarly ranked players on any other major server.
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Apr 23, 2014 04:06
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xopods posted:Okay, and how often do you see 9d vs. 9d? Or, really, anyone above about 5d who isn't playing 0:10/move ultrablitz? I've always wondered too why no one above 5d plays anything other than blitz.
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Apr 23, 2014 04:17
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My assumption is that they get their quality games from their pro teachers and peers IRL or in correspondence. There's a very small pool of equally strong opponents to play longer games with on a realtime server. So the blitz games are there for a bit of fun and to unwind. Re: KGS in decline, it begs the question then: Where have those players gone?
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Apr 23, 2014 09:14
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I'm not saying that KGS high dans aren't strong. I agree that they're all going to be at least 6-7d amateurs. And in fact, thinking about it more, it would be quite hard to manage to inflate your rank to achieve 9d simply because it's the highest rank allowed, so there aren't any higher-ranked people with similarly inflated ranks to boost yourself off of. Things that are true, however: (1) The KGS ranking system is garbage. It has way too much inertia when you've got lots of games in your history and way too little when you don't, which, combined with the fact that unlimited alts are allowed, leads people who care about rating to constantly create new accounts and try to run hot in their first few games with a new account to get a high rank. I know this isn't hard to do because even at my peak, at 4 dan CGA, that would have been the equivalent of 2-3d KGS, yet after just a few attempts I was able to get myself a solid 5d. (2) Partially because of the problems with the ranking system and partially just because it's the internet, KGS culture is horrible. From escapers, to everyone wanting to take Black all the time, to refusing to play with non-solidly rated players, to everything being ultra-blitz, to playing on when 30 points behind and resigning just before confirming the score, everything about the popular attitude on KGS is a disgrace to the game. (3) Asking for an undo against someone 7 stones weaker than you, claiming you saw the threat but assumed he wouldn't, and then insulting him when he won't give you the undo is not professional behaviour. If you say the guy is in fact a professional, then it behooves him to act like one. I may have been hasty in taking those three together and coming to the conclusion that his 9d wasn't entirely deserved. Maybe he really is that strong. The three facts are still facts on their own, however. xopods fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Apr 23, 2014 |
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Apr 23, 2014 12:13
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oiseaux morts 1994 posted:Re: KGS in decline, it begs the question then: Where have those players gone? They hear that Kgs is terrible so they start playing on some other server that is even worse in all of xopods' categories. Then they give up.
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Apr 23, 2014 12:28
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So it's not the obnoxious behavior of internet players that turns people off of Go, but the people who criticize obnoxious behavior?
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Apr 23, 2014 13:19
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xopods posted:So it's not the obnoxious behavior of internet players that turns people off of Go, but the people who criticize obnoxious behavior? Which server would you recommend as one that is better then KGS in any of your points?
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Apr 23, 2014 13:31
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I'd say that the community on KGS is far better than most places, people are generally polite and most will chat a little if you make an effort.
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Apr 23, 2014 13:46
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tonberrytoby posted:No I am saying it is the behavior of really obnoxious internet players that turns people off of go. As opposed to the behavior of slightly less obnoxious internet players. There is none, as far as realtime servers go. Turn-based play seems to be a lot more civil for whatever reason. Probably because the slow pace of play means people don't blunder as much and therefore don't rage as much. And if they do, then they will have calmed down by the next move. Of course, the real problem is the scarcity of live clubs. If you've had the experience of playing live on a regular basis, the difference in attitude and sportsmanship between that environment and something like KGS is astounding. I know I said a while back that I quit Go because I got frustrated with my lack of progress, but club games never frustrated me. I was getting disappointed in my tournament performance, but in retrospect, it was probably playing online that made me performance-oriented in the first place, and the club games were the only thing bringing me back to simply enjoying the game. When my club shut down and all I had left was online play and the occasional live tournament, that's when I started feeling really negative about the game and gave it up.
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Apr 23, 2014 13:48
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The Problem I have with this is that the attitude and sportsmanship on KGS compared to almost all other gaming communities is also positively astounding. The few times I was at the only Go-club in my area, it was an experience pretty much like KGS. Mostly encouraging to beginners, but after a bit half the club only wanted to practice for the upcoming tournament and the other half was having heated discussions about some other boardgames.
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Apr 23, 2014 14:39
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tonberrytoby posted:They don't play go, obviously. I was referring to lifetime committed high-dan players, not scrubs. If they're not playing on KGS, which server have they all gone to
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Apr 23, 2014 14:46
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Take for example rapyuta: http://www.gokgs.com/gameArchives.jsp?user=rapyuta&year=2007&month=9&oldAccounts=y Rumored to be insei, came to KGS to play marathon blitz sessions and ruined everybody. I was logged on for most of the games in that list - around that time, I was on KGS every day and would see 9d and 8d games all the time. I guess some of them play on Tygem and WBaduk now, or maybe they only play in clubs. Probably a few of them aren't playing frequently anywhere - most players who reach 9d do it at a young age, and some of them probably spend most of their time doing other stuff after they become adults.
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Apr 23, 2014 15:03
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Just looked up a position on eidogo and the move i played in the actual game was labelled as 'An amateurish mistake'. Fair enough but still 
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Apr 23, 2014 15:04
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tonberrytoby posted:The Problem I have with this is that the attitude and sportsmanship on KGS compared to almost all other gaming communities is also positively astounding. I suppose you're right. I'm just in a more or less permanent state of grumpy old man-ness about Those Young People on the Internet These Days.
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Apr 23, 2014 15:32
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Do you guys have a preferred YouTube lesson series? Someone both entertaining and knowledge? I've watched a few of Nick Sibicky and he seems alright.
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Apr 23, 2014 23:28
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areyoucontagious posted:Do you guys have a preferred YouTube lesson series? Someone both entertaining and knowledge? I've watched a few of Nick Sibicky and he seems alright. Nick Sibicky and Dwyrin are basically the only two I know of.
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Apr 23, 2014 23:48
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areyoucontagious posted:Do you guys have a preferred YouTube lesson series? Someone both entertaining and knowledge? I've watched a few of Nick Sibicky and he seems alright.
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Apr 23, 2014 23:58
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 Opinions?
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Apr 24, 2014 09:46
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Xom posted:
I personally think that b11 is a bit thin, although it's probably playable in certain situations. Playing b11 one lower seems like the honte move to me, if white tries to hard to push down on you then you can cut. On the other hand i feel like 12 and 14 don't achieve much for white, instead white ends up solidifying black. It's probably better just to play 16 without those moves and leave the bad aji for later.
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Apr 24, 2014 10:31
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shin42k posted:I personally think that b11 is a bit thin, although it's probably playable in certain situations. Playing b11 one lower seems like the honte move to me, if white tries to hard to push down on you then you can cut. I think B11 at W12 would be too slow. Of course, you wish you could play W14, but you don't have enough liberties for that. B11 seems to be the only move seen in pro play from this situation. Eidogo has one occurrence of B playing at W16 instead, but in that case, B already had a stone in place at C11. I agree that the sequence from W12 to B15 does a lot more for Black than for White. I mean, yeah, you get to play W18 instead of kosumi at F9, but it's hard to attack those Black stones severely. I would rather omit those moves, then play the kosumi and retain the option of squeezing Black's left side group later.
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Apr 24, 2014 12:08
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Xom posted:
Dislike White's biggest move in the area is probably h4, but if black plays it to forestall white, it doesn't work very well, since b has to juggle his weak group. Looking at the final position, I feel like b would have been better off playing c7, the long approach, if he was worried about d6. It would give him a better result without having had to develop the board so much.
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Apr 24, 2014 12:12
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Generally speaking, connecting at c7 is very rarely correct. Either b6 or e7 instead is usually better.
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Apr 25, 2014 02:04
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| # ? May 12, 2024 17:41 |
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Prodigious posted:Generally speaking, connecting at c7 is very rarely correct. Either b6 or e7 instead is usually better. Would playing at e4 or e5 be a bad idea? Would that let you cut white off from being to connect to f4? I am still working on the tutorial site so I could have no idea what I am talking about.
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Apr 25, 2014 02:44
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