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Nessus posted:I still remember smiling in ghoulish pleasure when Palin said, what was it? Something ignorant about families, and Biden hitting that pathos note over his own backstory. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC1W1_sTgFE Here is Biden's response over Palin's quip about him not understanding what it's like to be a single parent.
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Apr 24, 2014 07:54
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Yeah somehow Biden got to play debate teeball with a spiked bat in both '08 and '12. Jesus Christ.
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Apr 24, 2014 08:03
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SedanChair posted:Seriously if you really think he didn't mean to say "dreams take wing" you've got no business weighing in on who is or isn't intelligent. Suggesting Bush's malapropisms were calculated seems really silly and unsupported by the evidence.
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Apr 24, 2014 08:04
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Periodiko posted:Suggesting Bush's malapropisms were calculated seems really silly and unsupported by the evidence. You don't seem to comprehend what I was saying. He transposed two words, the meaning was clear. I'm sure he'd have preferred to say it correctly, but it was a simple mistake, not indicative of intelligence, and wholly comparable to Obama's equally harmless "57 states" flub.
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Apr 24, 2014 08:08
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All this Bush talk brings me back to how completely, desperately hosed the country was by the end of 2008, and I got to thinking, crash aside (because who can predict a bubble, right?) what exactly was the endgame for Iraq? Like, in a perfect Republican world where everything didn't go to poo poo, how was that supposed to play out? And same question for Afghanistan, I guess.
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Apr 24, 2014 08:13
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Wolfsheim posted:All this Bush talk brings me back to how completely, desperately hosed the country was by the end of 2008, and I got to thinking, crash aside (because who can predict a bubble, right?) what exactly was the endgame for Iraq? Like, in a perfect Republican world where everything didn't go to poo poo, how was that supposed to play out? And same question for Afghanistan, I guess. It has been nothing but a lot of close calls since 2008. Job Truniht fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 08:15
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Periodiko posted:Suggesting Bush's malapropisms were calculated seems really silly and unsupported by the evidence. Malapropisms are not really a good measure of overall intelligence, and the focus on Bush's supposed stupidity is pretty useless. It strikes me that people are emotionally attached to Bush being stupid because the alternative--that he actively worked to ruin millions of lives for personal profit, succeeded absolutely, and will never face the slightest consequence--is extremely dispiriting. It's really not fruitful, though. Focusing on Bush's intellect is bad political practice because it calls Bush voters stupid by proxy, and ironically pushes them to be ever more receptive to the phony folk-idiot persona that Republicans love to run with. It waters down the key themes that leftists need to push: that their ideology is morally superior to Bush's and their ideas lead to better governance than Bush. Calling him stupid just lets him off the hook: it's not that right-wing ideas are fundamentally evil and harmful, it's just that stupid old Dubya made a mess of things. Dude is an outright, unapologetic war criminal who murdered poor people to line his own pockets and you've gotta take shots at his intelligence?
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Apr 24, 2014 08:17
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Wolfsheim posted:All this Bush talk brings me back to how completely, desperately hosed the country was by the end of 2008, and I got to thinking, crash aside (because who can predict a bubble, right?) what exactly was the endgame for Iraq? Like, in a perfect Republican world where everything didn't go to poo poo, how was that supposed to play out? And same question for Afghanistan, I guess.
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Apr 24, 2014 08:21
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Mornacale posted:It's really not fruitful, though. Focusing on Bush's intellect is bad political practice because it calls Bush voters stupid by proxy, and ironically pushes them to be ever more receptive to the phony folk-idiot persona that Republicans love to run with. It waters down the key themes that leftists need to push: that their ideology is morally superior to Bush's and their ideas lead to better governance than Bush. Calling him stupid just lets him off the hook: it's not that right-wing ideas are fundamentally evil and harmful, it's just that stupid old Dubya made a mess of things. Yes, and in comitting this error lefties prepare the way for bush 3.0, "SmartBush" or "Bush Metro."  We just had to work the kinks out of compassionate conservatism, you see. The ideas are still good! W just implemented them badly, because pee pee doo doo.
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Apr 24, 2014 08:26
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SedanChair posted:You don't seem to comprehend what I was saying. He transposed two words, the meaning was clear. I'm sure he'd have preferred to say it correctly, but it was a simple mistake, not indicative of intelligence, and wholly comparable to Obama's equally harmless "57 states" flub. I never said it was indicative of intelligence, but you were very clearly suggesting that Bush had actually intended to say "dreams take wing", and that people who actually thought it was a malapropism were just being duped. That's loving loony. In fact, it's like the exact opposite of the thesis that just because Bush occasionally misspoke, he was intelligent - now his misspeaking is evidence of his crafty intelligence. Bush was obviously a smart, talented politician, but he also obviously had a tendency to misspeak, and he was an old man doing an enormously difficult job. Keith Hennessey's statements also do need to be taken with a grain of salt. It's well known that people overestimate the intelligence of people they agree with, and underestimate those they don't. He also clearly has an axe to grind over the depiction of President Bush in the media - in fact, I get the impression less that that blog post is about the objective intelligence of Bush, and more about how he thinks Bush was unfairly portrayed as stupid by a media which looks down on working class rural Americans.
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Apr 24, 2014 08:43
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Mornacale posted:It strikes me that people are emotionally attached to Bush being stupid because the alternative--that he actively worked to ruin millions of lives for personal profit, succeeded absolutely, and will never face the slightest consequence--is extremely dispiriting.  Goddamnit if I wasn't emotionally attached to Bush being stupid before, I sure am now  ... ... ... lol that Bush what an idiot
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Apr 24, 2014 10:01
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VitalSigns posted:
Yeah man. Yeah... 
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Apr 24, 2014 10:20
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Then you don't ever wanna know about this guy Dick Cheney.
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Apr 24, 2014 11:02
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MariusLecter posted:Then you don't ever wanna know about this guy Dick Cheney.
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Apr 24, 2014 11:04
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Whoopsie.Cliven Bundy posted:“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do. Naturally, politicians are starting to back away from this guy at Mach 5.
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Apr 24, 2014 11:22
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I don't know, is that really any different from what the duck guy said?
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Apr 24, 2014 11:25
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the cotton thing might be too far for even the right wing.
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Apr 24, 2014 11:32
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1stGear posted:Whoopsie. How in the gently caress does something like this even happen? How, in the 21st century, does someone open their mouths and say this at all, much less when the press cameras are rolling? I am stunned.
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Apr 24, 2014 11:33
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So the guy squatting on public land is mad about public housing? 
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Apr 24, 2014 11:35
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made of bees posted:I don't know, is that really any different from what the duck guy said? They latched on to the gay stuff the duck guy said so hard that they were successfully able to shout out any talk of the ultra racist poo poo he said. Bundy hosed himself here by not adding how the queers are super evil.
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Apr 24, 2014 11:56
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Bundy has been a really fringy issue in the first place, so fringy that even Glenn Beck wanted no part of him, and he's not helping himself by making himself even more fringy by proving himself to be an 19th-century grade racist. That's a great way to shut out the People Who Want To Convince You They Are Liberarians demographic. Fake Libertarians are only Early 20th Century-grade racists.
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Apr 24, 2014 12:06
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Ted Cruz and Mike Lee everyone
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Apr 24, 2014 12:11
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I've got to believe that he either doesn't know it's illegal to have those, or he's trying to set off some "government trying to take away my hard earned endangered carcasses" publicity. e: (it is illegal to have those, right?)
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Apr 24, 2014 12:17
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Juan Ebolovich posted:I've got to believe that he either doesn't know it's illegal to have those, or he's trying to set off some "government trying to take away my hard earned endangered carcasses" publicity. I don't think Texas even has any laws about keeping exotic pets.
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Apr 24, 2014 12:21
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Brigadier Sockface posted:Texas doesn't even have any laws about keeping exotic pets. I'd hardly call Mike Lee "exotic".
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Apr 24, 2014 12:22
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1stGear posted:Whoopsie. I'm still laughing at this amazing quote. In the end these jerks are always the same.
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Apr 24, 2014 12:35
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Wolfsheim posted:All this Bush talk brings me back to how completely, desperately hosed the country was by the end of 2008, and I got to thinking, crash aside (because who can predict a bubble, right?) what exactly was the endgame for Iraq? Like, in a perfect Republican world where everything didn't go to poo poo, how was that supposed to play out? And same question for Afghanistan, I guess. I don't think they had any sort of plan beyond "acquire money and prestige for our buddies." Part of the reason it became such a disaster is because there just kind of wasn't any sort of solid plan and Bush and pals were having none of it when top-ranking strategists told them their ideas were dumb. One of the top generals literally got fired when he said to Bush that, to achieve anything they wanted to (whatever the gently caress that was) they needed to at least double the troops that were over there. Bush's attitude was along the lines of "well you need to think positively and saying we might fail if we do not do a thing is not thinking positively." Yeah, Bush was literally arguing that you could just positively think a war to victory. That's part of why people think he's a drooling idiot. Afghanistan turned into a complete disaster very quickly with no plan other than "I don't know send some dudes over and have them go look for Osama or something" after more or less declaring war on the world. Saddam was picked up rather quickly and nobody found a single WMD to dismantle (because they didn't exist) so everybody was standing around holding their dicks going "OK, now what?" Really, there was some nebulous "end terrorism" goals set but it was so non-specific it was impossible to plan around. Meanwhile the Bush policies toward the wars ended up just making the problems worse. It was like putting out fires with kerosene. It reflected his policies on literally everything else, really. His attitude was "I think this will work so it will work. I'll just do like whatever, if you criticize it you're a dummy and need to think more positively. Anything bad that happens due to my policy isn't my fault because I think positive." That line of magical thinking doesn't make somebody sound like a pillar of intellectualism. It's also part of why people think he's an idiot. That attitude actually makes it impossible to learn or improve.
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Apr 24, 2014 12:35
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Cliven Bundy's a racist, but so was duck dynasty beardlord and lots of folks stuck with him. Today is going to be a new low in racist doubling down. Watch.Periodiko posted:I never said it was indicative of intelligence, but you were very clearly suggesting that Bush had actually intended to say "dreams take wing", and that people who actually thought it was a malapropism were just being duped. That's loving loony. In fact, it's like the exact opposite of the thesis that just because Bush occasionally misspoke, he was intelligent - now his misspeaking is evidence of his crafty intelligence. Wow you just read what I said and repeated the same misunderstanding, I don't know what to say. It was a malapropism, simple as that. A meaningless one. He said "wings take dream" and meant to say "dreams take wing." Where are you getting this whole "deliberate malapropism" angle? quote:Bush was obviously a smart, talented politician, but he also obviously had a tendency to misspeak, and he was an old man doing an enormously difficult job. Bush was an old man?
woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 12:35
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Juan Ebolovich posted:I've got to believe that he either doesn't know it's illegal to have those, or he's trying to set off some "government trying to take away my hard earned endangered carcasses" publicity. It could just be a fake.
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Apr 24, 2014 12:37
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SedanChair posted:Bush's rhetoric was so well crafted that it's an insult to call it Machiavellian. It's Bushian. It is just about sui generis. Grated, he could be generis at times. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8MzM-GV02Y&t=10s
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Apr 24, 2014 12:37
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Christ I'm glad Olbermann is off of TV. What a pointless ham.
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Apr 24, 2014 12:38
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Christ I'm glad
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Apr 24, 2014 12:42
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Cliven Bundy posted:“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do. This might be the most racist thing I've ever read.
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Apr 24, 2014 12:46
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You mean what a cunning, post-Machiavellian ham.  edit: ^^^^^ person believing in states rights is actually a mega racist? color me shocked.
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Apr 24, 2014 12:46
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Antti posted:It could just be a fake. Most likely, yes. All genuine animal pelts that I've seen are thick and heavy - the way that rug wrinkles suggests it's just fabric.
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Apr 24, 2014 12:59
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It doesn't take much in the way of brains to let your cabinet run the country by proxy. Bush was dumb as a fencepost and trying to claim otherwise is ignoring the fact that the dumb bastard spent half his presidency playing in the dirt at his ranch in Texas and then poorly faking a kind of machismo every time the cameras showed up by claiming "Yeah, clearing brush." Motherfucker your dumb rear end expected people to believe you legitimately cleared brush every weekend for eight goddamn years. He's stupid. It's unfortunate he isn't fitting through whatever wheeled trollposts you keep rolling around back there for what constitutes stupidity in a person but he didn't need to be goddamn Dwayne Elizondo Mountaindew Camacho or whatever to be explainably dumb. He was an idiot, period. He tripped over his own tongue constantly, sat on his balls whenever he tried to project any kind of swagger, failed everything he's ever attempted in life with the exception of campaigning (which is honestly attributable to Rove and the RNC more than anything) and the modicum of redemption even I'll grant him for having the shame to stay the gently caress out of the limelight after leaving the presidency. His energy company failed. No joke, his goddamn oil business in Texas failed. That's like running a bordello in DC, you're god damned stupid if you gently caress it up. And as for elections, Louie loving Gohmert wins elections. If that's the bar you want to set for what makes someone smart you're going to be pretty disappointed. Bush was loving stupid and until there's evidence that he was somehow secretly a genius that's the way it'll have to be. The man on tape is a dumb man and it doesn't stop being that want just because you insist it's an act or that he was just mushmouthed and that's why he spoke like a moron. He also made stupid actions and those can't be handwaved away by just saying he's bad at speaking.
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Apr 24, 2014 13:09
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SedanChair posted:Cliven Bundy's a racist, but so was duck dynasty beardlord and lots of folks stuck with him. Today is going to be a new low in racist doubling down. Watch. Nope, they'll just ignore the comments and shift the outrage machine to the BLM itself.
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Apr 24, 2014 13:13
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comes along bort posted:Nope, they'll just ignore the comments and shift the outrage machine to the BLM itself. It will be interesting how Dana Loesch, his biggest supporter in media on this, will spin these quotes
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Apr 24, 2014 13:28
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Wolfsheim posted:All this Bush talk brings me back to how completely, desperately hosed the country was by the end of 2008, and I got to thinking, crash aside (because who can predict a bubble, right?) what exactly was the endgame for Iraq? Like, in a perfect Republican world where everything didn't go to poo poo, how was that supposed to play out? And same question for Afghanistan, I guess. It's hard to answer that question for kind of a funny reason, which is that you usually try to figure out what people are trying to accomplish by what they do pursuant to that goal. But the Bush administration had no idea what it was doing. If we'd had an actual plan that expressed itself in how we conducted the occupations and reconstructions of Iraq and Afghanistan, then you could just sort of check what we were doing over there and extrapolate our long-term goals. But there wasn't really a plan, at least not anything fully-formed, which leaves trying to interpret public statements from Bush administration officials and the vague contours of their Middle East policy, like trying to imagine somebody's face from only his silhouette. Our goals in Iraq also changed depending on what year it was. The plan in 2003 before the invasion was obviously going to be very different from the plan in 2007, by which time we wanted out ASAP and we just needed to get things nominally stable so we could leave. There's probably several answers to your question. At some level I think neoconservatives had a messianic fantasy of making Iraq a perfect state, a pluralistic free-market democracy like an Arab Texas, that would be an example to the rest of the region and the leading wave of a worldwide turn towards the American model. And in a perfect world we probably would have invaded Syria and Iran and fixed them as well. Similarly for Afghanistan. It's impossible to say how seriously anybody took that concept, though. In a more grounded and cynical sense we were probably just planning for Iraq to be a useful satellite state. The way we had Bremer set up the new Iraqi government indicated a strong priority on laissez-faire market reforms: privatization of government entities and assets, writing laws and tax codes to be as friendly as possible to corporations, creating a playground for foreign investors, making it easier for the USA to access Iraqi energy resources, etc. At the same time Iraq would serve as a permanent base for American power in the Middle East. As for Afghanistan, that one is even weirder because they just stopped paying attention to it once they started gearing up for the invasion of Iraq. It seems like a case where clearly 9/11 meant we had to go in there to get Al Qaeda and oust the Taliban, and once we were there we had commitments to our local allies so we couldn't just leave, but there doesn't seem to have been any plan or long-term goal. We just kind of threw money at Hamid Karzai and hoped it would work out.
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Apr 24, 2014 13:37
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That was quickquote:
Strategy: it is a lie/made up conspiracy by NYT Also connect it to Obamacare Mr Ice Cream Glove fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 13:39
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