US Politics April: A Series of Fantastically Bad Ideas

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ReindeerF: Apr 20, 2002; Rubber Dinghy Rapids Bro

America's obsession with parsing race like it's making slides for a microscrope is part of the yin-yang of positively dealing with race while negatively obsessing over it, but the Maccacca thing was Allen being a big redneck idiot bully and trying to alienate this brown dude, which, given America's unique historical relationship to black people, is a bit different than welcoming your "friend of the family" cameraman to the Real Virginia. Even the French people I know are like, "What? Non. Je ne comprends pas." That doesn't change his intent, but all the lawyerin' over the idiot and his idiot comment got really annoying. It was a rich moron white kid whose daddy gave him everything, irritated with the dune coon feller with the camera chasin' him around tryin' to catch him in a goof just mouthin' off in a comofrtable way, which included using some sort of monkey-ish word for him to make his locally redneck crowd laugh. It's the inverse of Borat in Arizona. I'm thrilled it caused him to tumble and fall and lose the election, don't get me wrong, I just get tired of the "it's all the same!" thing.

Some won't understand that, so it's not an apologia for George Idiot Allen, it's putting it in context. I have no idea if the guy is a dyed in the wool racist, but his comment was more that of a rich kid bonehead trying to sound like a Virginia good old boy to a bunch of loving hillbillies. It had absolutely no finesse. For racist attacks with finesse, see Rove's attacks on McCain's pout of wedlock black daughter. For balls out racism see the Lew Rockwell columns for Ron Paul.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 18:15

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# ? May 25, 2024 02:11

mandatory lesbian: Dec 18, 2012

Fried Chicken posted:

It was a different word, yes. I just don't see much daylight between it. If a bunch of angry rednecks tell a successful black man in an interracial relationship they want to take him "apple picking" its a drat clear racist threat even if there is wiggle room of "no, we just wanted to get fresh ingredients for a pie, we weren't threatening to lynch him"

It's all well and good that you (and I, for that matter) think they're both as bad as the other, but that really doesn't matter when only one of them is largely known as the clearly racist and toxic to say word.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 18:20

ProperGanderPusher: Jan 13, 2012

So I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but there appears to be a lot of pundits exclaiming "Of course Bundy said something un-PC! He's an old man! From simpler times!" :qq:

Never mind he wasn't even of age yet when the Civil Rights Act was passed.

Dana Loesch posted:

I hope no one is surprised that an old man rancher isn't media trained to express himself perfectly. He seems to be decrying what big government has done to the black family - which big government has negatively affected not just the black family, but all families regardless of ethnicity - so perhaps he included that in his remarks against big government? I'm just trying to figure out how he even got to the point of discussing it and, yes, it's justified to have a healthy suspicion of the New York Times.

.

Yep, all those poverty alleviation programs back in the sixties only made those blacks lazier than ever. They'll only work if you whip them in to shape, if you know what I mean.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 18:29

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

ReindeerF posted:

Some won't understand that, so it's not an apologia for George Idiot Allen, it's putting it in context. I have no idea if the guy is a dyed in the wool racist

Let me fill you in

quote:

Mr. Taylor, who is white and was then a graduate student at the University of Virginia, said the term had come up in a conversation about the turtles in a pond near Mr. Allen�s property. Mr. Allen, Mr. Taylor said, told him that �around here� the only people who �eat �em� were African-Americans, whom he described with the notorious epithet for blacks.

Separately, Dr. Ken Shelton, who was a football teammate of the senator at the University of Virginia and who is also white, said that while in college in the early 1970�s Mr. Allen often used the same racially charged term. Mr. Shelton, whose account was first reported Sunday night in the online newsmagazine Salon, said Mr. Allen had told him that he had moved to Virginia �because the blacks know their place.�

Mr. Shelton, a radiologist now living in North Carolina, said that on a hunting trip Mr. Allen had sought out the home of an African-American and affixed the head of a dead deer to the mailbox. He also said Mr. Allen had called him Wizard, for Robert Shelton, who used the title as a leader of the Ku Klux Klan.

�He wanted to know if I was related,� Mr. Shelton recalled in an interview. �I said no.�

# ? Apr 24, 2014 18:30

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

Yeah, the Dana Loesch thing was posted immediately.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 18:31

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Fried Chicken posted:

Bundy is on Alex Hones asking the NYT to retract the quotes on the basis of it not being true or at least missing context

Meanwhile video of the quote has appeared online

Obviously the video was a false flag.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 18:35

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

I love that there's a non-zero amount of people who think 'gently caress man, it's like every figurehead we latch on to for representing our views and being admirable to us all turns out to legitimately hate at least one minority' and take that to the totally logical place of 'this must be because of a left wing plot...'

# ? Apr 24, 2014 18:37

MaxxBot: Oct 6, 2003; you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!

Phone posted:

Yeah, the Dana Loesch thing was posted immediately.

That didn't stop people from claiming that "literally no one" is defending Bundy.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 18:41

Islam is the Lite Rock FM: Jul 27, 2007; by exmarx

Tatum Girlparts posted:

I love that there's a non-zero amount of people who think 'gently caress man, it's like every figurehead we latch on to for representing our views and being admirable to us all turns out to legitimately hate at least one minority' and take that to the totally logical place of 'this must be because of a left wing plot...'

That would require self-reflection.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 18:42

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

MaxxBot posted:

That didn't stop people from claiming that "literally no one" is defending Bundy.

Well, Dana Loesch does appear to be a woman, so under certain theories of citizenship...

# ? Apr 24, 2014 18:43

ProperGanderPusher: Jan 13, 2012

Joementum posted:

Obviously the video was a false flag.

Racist Bundy was totally a hologram concocted by some flouride-slinging Bilderberger.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 18:44

Fritz Coldcockin: Nov 7, 2005

Dana Loesch is a member of the Michelle Malkin school of thought--make as much money as you can carrying water for a group of people that hate your particular demographic.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 18:51

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

And now we enter the phase where Cliven was just askin' questions....

quote:

�That�s exactly what I said. I said I�m wondering if they�re better off under government subsidy, and their young women are having the abortions and their young men are in jail, and their older women and their children are standing, sitting out on the cement porch without nothing to do, you know, I�m wondering: Are they happier now under this government subsidy system than they were when they were slaves, and they was able to have their family structure together, and the chickens and garden, and the people had something to do? And so, in my mind I�m wondering, are they better off being slaves, in that sense, or better off being slaves to the United States government, in the sense of the subsidies. I�m wondering. That�s what. And the statement was right. I am wondering.�

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6UWy9wolLg

# ? Apr 24, 2014 18:58

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

This is where you'd post the National Geographic cover that asks "Were black people better off as slaves" and the opening page of the article is just a big rear end NO.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:00

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

"Well i'm just wondering if they were better off as slaves"

It's just mind blowing that he doesn't realize that even *asking* that question makes him a poo poo heel racist.

holy poo poo i'm laughing so hard i'm crying listening to all these stupid loving comments and interviews about this dude.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:03

Good Citizen: Aug 12, 2008; Can't post for 2 hours!

quote:

"I�m wondering: Are they happier now under this government subsidy system than they were when they were slaves, and they was able to have their family structure together"

The slavery system in America: well known for keeping family structures together.

This guy is great because he's not the type to hire a publicist or know to shut up. He's going to keep digging until he hits bedrock

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:05

Captain_Maclaine: Sep 30, 2001; Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Good Citizen posted:

The slavery system in America: well known for keeping family structures together.

Come on over to the Freeper thread, if you've got a strong stomach for horrible people. They've been beating that particular drum for a while, particularly even since 12 Years a Slave premiered (their consensus: it's a sleazy hit piece slandering the idyllic Old South and white southerners generally).

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:08

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

Joementum posted:

And now we enter the phase where Cliven was just askin' questions....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6UWy9wolLg

on Peter Schiff's show.

Total number of people in that conversation who have non-White Power friends: 0

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:10

Mr Ice Cream Glove: Apr 22, 2007

This is perfect

quote:

Conservatives who rushed to Nevada Rancher Cliven Bundy's side when he confronted federal authorities over land use moved on Thursday to condemn his inflammatory remarks on race, even if some of them weren't turning tail on his anti-government cause.

Below is a list of politicians and media personalities who backed Bundy during his standoff with the Bureau of Land Management along with their responses, if they have given one, to his comments on "the Negro" and government assistance, which were published by the New York Times.

U.S. Sen. Dean Heller (R-NV)

What he said previously: Appearing alongside Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) on KSNV-TV, Heller praised Bundy and his supporters: �What Sen. Reid may call domestic terrorists, I call patriots."

What he's saying now: A spokesman for Heller told the New York Times that the senator "completely disagrees with Mr. Bundy�s appalling and racist statements, and condemns them in the most strenuous way.�

U.S. Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY)

What he said previously: Earlier this month, Paul criticized the federal government on a Kentucky radio station and said he'd prefer for the dispute to be worked out in court: �The federal government shouldn�t violate the law, nor should we have 48 federal agencies carrying weapons and having SWAT teams."

What he's saying now: After a spokesman told the New York Times that the senator wasn't available for comment, Paul condemned the remarks Thursday in a statement to Business Insider: "His remarks on race are offensive and I wholeheartedly disagree with him."

Fox News Host Sean Hannity

What he said previously: The Fox News host has staunchly defended Bundy and his supporters, going so far as to suggest that Sen. Harry Reid and the federal government were planning a secret raid on Bundy's ranch. He's also slapped down high-profile criticisms of his support for Bundy, most notably from Comedy Central comedian Jon Stewart.

What he's saying now: Hannity hasn't come forward with a position on Bundy's latest comments. He still has a radio show and a Fox News program to broadcast today, though, so his take may be forthcoming.

Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R)

What he said previously: Perry appeared Wednesday on Fox News and suggested the federal government was instigating the conflict: "I have a problem with the federal government putting citizens in the position of having to feel like they have to use force to deal with their own government."

What he's saying now: Perry appeared Thursday on CBS This Morning and dodged the question: "I don't know what he said, but the fact is Clyde (sic) Bundy is a side issue here compared to what we're looking at in the state of Texas. He is an individual. Deal with his issues as you may."

Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott (R)

What he said previously: The gubernatorial candidate did not weigh in on the Bundy standoff specifically. However, he called attention to the BLM's management of federal lands in Texas in a letter sent Tuesday to the director of the agency, saying he was "deeply troubled" by reports that the agency planned to "regulate the use of federal lands along a 116-mile stretch of the Red River."

What he's saying now: A spokeswoman for Abbott told the New York Times that Abbott's letter to the BLM "was regarding a dispute in Texas and is in no way related to the dispute in Nevada."

Nevada state Assemblywoman Michele Fiore (R)

What she said previously: The lawmaker told MSNBC's Chris Hayes in a testy interview that she thought the federal government's handling of the conflict with Bundy was "suspicious:" "Don't come here with guns and expect the American people not to fire back."

What she's saying now: Fiore disagreed with Bundy's comments on race in a statement that also reaffirmed her opposition to the BLM's actions: "I strongly disagree with Cliven Bundy�s comments about slavery. Mr. Bundy has said things I don�t agree with; however, we cannot let this divert our attention from the true issue of the atrocities BLM committed by harming our public land and the animals living on it."

Arizona state Rep. Kelly Townsend (R)

What she said previously: Townsend, who participated in a rally near the ranch earlier this month, told the Las Vegas Review-Journal that video of a clash between anti-government protesters and BLM rangers disturbed her: �Watching that video last night created a visceral reaction in me. It sounds dramatic, but it reminded me of Tiananmen Square. I don�t recognize my country at this point.�

What she's saying now: Townsend hasn't responded to Bundy's latest remarks. TPM has reached out to Townsend for a statement and will update when we receive a response.

Former Arizona Sheriff Richard Mack

What he said previously: Mack, who helped organize the militia on Bundy's ranch, equated the rancher and his supporters to civil rights icon Rosa Parks in recordings flagged by Right Wing Watch: "This particular peasant said, �No, I�m sorry, I�m not rolling over for this one. You guys are out of line, you don�t own the land, you don�t own our ranch, you don�t own us. ... This was Rosa Parks refusing to get to the back of the bus."

What he's saying now: Mack hasn't yet responded to Bundy's remarks on slavery.

National Review Correspondent Kevin Williamson

What he said previously: Earlier this month, Williamson wrote that "a little sedition" � la Bundy is a good thing: "Of course the law is against Cliven Bundy. How could it be otherwise? The law was against Mohandas Gandhi, too, when he was tried for sedition."

What he's saying now: Williamson explained in an email to TPM that like "the men who died at the Alamo," probably, Bundy has "repugnant" views that are distinct from the issue at hand: "Mr. Bundy's racial rhetoric is lamentable and backward. It is also separate from the fundamental question here, which is the federal government's acting as an absentee landlord for nine-tenths of the state of Nevada."

Conservative Pundit Dana Loesch

What she said previously: Loesch has written extensively in support of Bundy on her blog.

What she's saying now: The pundit wrote in a blog post that Bundy's comments could have been blown up because he wasn't media trained. She also argued that "the left" was attempting to tie his anti-government activism to racism.

Got to love the national review response

Mr Ice Cream Glove fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Apr 24, 2014

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:12

Stultus Maximus: Dec 21, 2009; USPOL May

Good Citizen posted:

The slavery system in America: well known for keeping family structures together.

Captain_Maclaine posted:

Come on over to the Freeper thread, if you've got a strong stomach for horrible people. They've been beating that particular drum for a while, particularly even since 12 Years a Slave premiered (their consensus: it's a sleazy hit piece slandering the idyllic Old South and white southerners generally).

Indeed. After all,

quote:

Instead of allowing yourselves to be herded towards the conclusion that Bundy is a racist, why not read his actual words and think about what he's saying. Blacks, back in the days of slavery, were productive and seemed content. They sang, whistled, raised their families (most of whom, despite Hollywood's depiction, were NOT separated and sold off). A huge percentage of blacks today are filled with hate and refuse to be productive. They've latched onto the government teat and remain there, generation after generation, living off the labors of productive members of society, yet blame whites for ALL their woes. THAT is the point Bundy is making and truth isn't racist, it's just truth.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:13

Good Citizen: Aug 12, 2008; Can't post for 2 hours!

Captain_Maclaine posted:

Come on over to the Freeper thread, if you've got a strong stomach for horrible people. They've been beating that particular drum for a while, particularly even since 12 Years a Slave premiered (their consensus: it's a sleazy hit piece slandering the idyllic Old South and white southerners generally).

That thread and the political cartoons thread just move too fast for me to bother keeping up with. I pretty much only check them when something big happens

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:14

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Tigntink posted:

"Well i'm just wondering if they were better off as slaves"

It's just mind blowing that he doesn't realize that even *asking* that question makes him a poo poo heel racist.

Typical liberal thought control: you're just afraid of open debate.

Next up, Lynching: were blacks better off back in the day when justice was swift and sure? I'm just wondering 'bout stuff

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:14

mandatory lesbian: Dec 18, 2012

Good Citizen posted:

That thread and the political cartoons thread just move too fast for me to bother keeping up with. I pretty much only check them when something big happens

You are not required to read every post, you know. just skip to the end like any sane person would do.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:15

Too Shy Guy: Jun 14, 2003; I have destroyed more of your kind than I can count.

I hope this dude can keep asking questions all the way through November. :allears:

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:21

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

This is perfect

Got to love the national review response

Kevin Williamson is super LOLsy as he's a gay self hater who spends his time writing articles saying Jon Stewart isn't funny because he hurt Kevin Williamson's sweet boy feelings.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:24

Von Sloneker: Jul 6, 2009; as if all this was something more
than another footnote on a postcard from nowhere,
another chapter in the handbook for exercises in futility

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

This is perfect

Got to love the national review response

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/376488/bundys-racial-rhetoric-kevin-d-williamson

He expands there, also saying, in essence, "well Gandhi was a big fat racist too!" and that Bundy's lawlessness is superior to Obama's lawlessness. It's pretty all over the place.

And Rich Lowry has just decided that Bundy's racist beliefs make him a "paleo-libertarian," which I really hope incites a slapfight with the grumps at Reason.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:25

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Silver linings! The Republican Hispanic outreach effort probably won't be damaged by ol' Cliven.

quote:

"Now let me talk about the Spanish people," Bundy said in a new video unearthed by New York magazine, right after he concluded his thoughts on "the Negro."

"I understand that they come over here against our Constitution and cross our borders," he says. "But they're here and they're people. I worked side-by-side a lot of them. Don't tell me they don't work, and don't tell me they don't pay taxes. And don't tell me they don't have better family structures than most of us white people."

"When you see those Mexican families, they're together. They picnic together. They're spending their time together," he said. "I'll tell you, in my way of thinking, they're awful nice people. We need to have those people join us and be with us."

Mexicans: you may be Spanish, but you're people after all.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:25

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Yes, our strict constitutional prohibition against immigration.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:29

deathtoamerica: Apr 24, 2014; by XyloJW

Joementum posted:

Silver linings! The Republican Hispanic outreach effort probably won't be damaged by ol' Cliven.

Mexicans: you may be Spanish, but you're people after all.

But gently caress them negros amiright guys?

----------------
This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:29

Captain_Maclaine: Sep 30, 2001; Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Joementum posted:

Silver linings! The Republican Hispanic outreach effort probably won't be damaged by ol' Cliven.

Mexicans: you may be Spanish, but you're people after all.

Alright I'm convinced; time to rewatch that clip and see if I can find just where Mel Brookes is hiding.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:32

skaboomizzy: Nov 12, 2003; There is nothing I want to be. There is nothing I want to do.
I don't even have an image of what I want to be. I have nothing. All that exists is zero.

Cliven Bundy wonders if slaves REALLY had such terrible lives. He has a fondness for a current racial minority that is often exploited for cheap or unpaid labor.

I think I'm sensing a theme here.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:32

How are u: May 19, 2005; by Azathoth

Cliven Bundy / Ron Paul 2016

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:33

Fritz Coldcockin: Nov 7, 2005

Joementum posted:

Silver linings! The Republican Hispanic outreach effort probably won't be damaged by ol' Cliven.

Mexicans: you may be Spanish, but you're people after all.

Jesus everloving Christ, this guy is the gift that keeps on giving. The DSCC/DCCC need to make him a star this election season.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:33

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Well I mean sure slavery kept families together. Much in the same way that farms keep herds of cattle together. And at the time the two were treated much the same.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:33

Von Sloneker: Jul 6, 2009; as if all this was something more
than another footnote on a postcard from nowhere,
another chapter in the handbook for exercises in futility

I just realized that in the Rich Lowry piece I linked above, he's actually having to explain to ... his readers, I guess, why slavery was actually bad. Life as a National Review editor must be something.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:37

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

Good Citizen posted:

That thread and the political cartoons thread just move too fast for me to bother keeping up with. I pretty much only check them when something big happens

You can always tell when somebody feels like they have to read every post because they hate living.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:38

AsInHowe: Jan 11, 2007; red winged angel

Alter Ego posted:

Jesus everloving Christ, this guy is the gift that keeps on giving. The DSCC/DCCC need to make him a star this election season.

The great thing is, he'll be ready and willing to expound on any issue.

Quick, someone ask him what he thinks about rape.

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:38

Munkeymon: Aug 14, 2003; Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.

How are u posted:

Cliven Bundy / Ron Paul 2016

Paul / Bundy sounds better

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:39

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Von Sloneker posted:

I just realized that in the Rich Lowry piece I linked above, he's actually having to explain to ... his readers, I guess, why slavery was actually bad. Life as a National Review editor must be something.

Remember when, after watching 12 Years a Slave, in the year 2013, Richard Cohen finally realized slavery was kinda bad too?

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/Breaking-Slavery-very-bad-a-Washington-Post-columnist-has-learned.html

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:40

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# ? May 25, 2024 02:11

AsInHowe: Jan 11, 2007; red winged angel

Munkeymon posted:

Paul / Bundy sounds better

Paul/Bundy 2016 - You're The Real Racist

# ? Apr 24, 2014 19:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Politics April: A Series of Fantastically Bad Ideas

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