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Button release (aka negative edge) counting as a valid input for specials/supers applies to a ton of fighting games and has been around since SF2, it's not just a SF4 shortcut. The same goes for using the motion from a special move as half of a super motion when doing a special->super cancel.
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Apr 24, 2014 05:32
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ToiletDuckie posted:Thanks for the video. I think I was getting confused between linking vs. cancelling in terms of timing. I switched to Makoto trials and had no trouble up to L Fukiage -> Ex Cancel -> L Fukiage, mostly due to not knowing which way to input the second one as I dashed. Gouken was about the same until Focus -> H -> Whatever his DP is -> Super, only because Focus -> H timing is tricky. Then I tried Zangief and oh god why didn't I buy a stick or just use a gamepad... A clean 270 isn't so bad, but 30 minutes of trying to get past that has already made my wrist sore. I don't hit box, but from what I understand, the technique used to 720 is called "pianoing". 720ing in Street Fighter has a shortcut. The first half of the input only requires a 180, followed by a 180 with any up. On a hit box, this is done by drumming your fingers across back, down, and forward, or forward down and back. Then you do it again, only this time you add the up button at the end. Ultimately, it ends up a lot like drumming your fingers on a desk. So drum your ring finger, middle finger, index finger, ring again, middle again, index again, and finally your thumb plus the appropriate button input, which would be 1 punch for super, and all 3 punches for ultra. From what I've heard, once you get the motion down, doing 360s/720s is extremely reliable on a hitbox.
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Apr 24, 2014 11:27
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I use a hitbox and play a lot of T Hawk, you don't want to piano the 360s or 720s, use the slide technique for 360s (this) and for 720s just forget about doing them from standing until you're really familiar with the hitbox, just jump and input the 720 motion while you're in the air then press the punches when you hit the ground, with very little practice you can get it 100% of the time, then you can use the same principle (called buffering) to do a 720 immediately after a dash, or immediately after a greenhand, and eventually tick or whiffed normals into 720s. A.o.D. is correct, it is super reliable once you get it down, the most common failure of 720s for me is that I do them too fast and the opponent is still in blockstun so the grab doesn't connect, this just takes practice and depends on which normal you're trying to tickthrow from. It is totally possible to do a standing 720 without a buffer but IMO it's not worth the effort or risk if you gently caress it up, I've never landed it in an actual match.
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Apr 24, 2014 12:41
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It seems odd to me that you'd need to use a jump to buffer you 720 input, as with a hitbox you can absolutely guarantee that you're not hitting an up directional. Every thing I've ever heard about them says that hitboxes are the absolute best way to nail standing SPD motions.
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Apr 24, 2014 13:55
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It is the best, IMO. But in a 720 you HAVE to hit up, and after that you have only 6 frames (or 5 with Hakan, 4 with everyone else except Dhalsim) to input 3 more directions and punches, so the easiest way to just get the 720 timing down is to buffer with a jump and then move on to more practical stuff like ticks and dashes and all that.
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Apr 24, 2014 14:22
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Foodahn posted:It is the best, IMO. But in a 720 you HAVE to hit up, and after that you have only 6 frames (or 5 with Hakan, 4 with everyone else except Dhalsim) to input 3 more directions and punches, so the easiest way to just get the 720 timing down is to buffer with a jump and then move on to more practical stuff like ticks and dashes and all that. You're doing it wrong. When yo do a 720, you don't have to do a 720. A 180 is sufficient to count as the first 360. F, D, B, F, D, B, U is read by the game engine as a full 720 input. You only need to start your prejump at the very final directional input. Drum your 3 middle fingers twice and then hit up with your thumb. Hitboxers get amazingly easy standing 720s. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 14:48
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So in SF4 you can do 720's as 41236412369?
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Apr 24, 2014 15:16
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Nativity In Black posted:So in SF4 you can do 720's as 41236412369? I think that needs an 8 at the end, because 360s only care that you get up/down/left/right in any order(270s are fine since the diagonals are ignored), but I'm not sure if it still works if you go to neutral at any point.
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Apr 24, 2014 15:30
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Arzachel posted:I think that needs an 8 at the end, because 360s only care that you get up/down/left/right in any order(270s are fine since the diagonals are ignored), but I'm not sure if it still works if you go to neutral at any point. You can go neutral for a frame or two. Otherwise the shortcut wouldn't work for pads or sticks, and I assure you they most definitely do work.
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Apr 24, 2014 15:51
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A.o.D. posted:You're doing it wrong. When yo do a 720, you don't have to do a 720. A 180 is sufficient to count as the first 360. F, D, B, F, D, B, U is read by the game engine as a full 720 input. You only need to start your prejump at the very final directional input. While it's true that 720s actually only require 540 degrees, the rest of what you say is false. 6246248 would only get you an EX SPD. To actually do a 720 you need to have a true 360 motion (in any direction), followed by a halfcircle back or forward. So 6248426, 6248624, 4268426, 4268624 all work, regardless of which direction you're facing. Sorry for using numpad notation but it's easiest in this case, there are other ways to do it too, but IMO these are the easiest. You can download the PC ComboTrainer if you want to mess with frameperfect inputs to try out any wacky combination you like.
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Apr 24, 2014 16:00
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A.o.D. posted:F, D, B, F, D, B, U is read by the game engine as a full 720 input. If this were true standing 720s would be trivial on any input device.
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Apr 24, 2014 16:35
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I must be having a stroke. When I get home I'm going to churn some butter as penance.
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Apr 24, 2014 16:41
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Still trying to practice the FFF and it keeps coming out as an EX thunder knuckle or an EX feint, even the rare occasion when it does just do a regular feint, I'm too far back to hit the fierce. Also is there some sort of shortcut motion to do a super jump burn kick? They should be crossing up right? I feel like I got it but the kicsk don't cross up. (also having trouble doing ex seimso into super jump burn kick, I just get j. HK)
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Apr 24, 2014 16:44
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Foodahn posted:I use a hitbox and play a lot of T Hawk, you don't want to piano the 360s or 720s, use the slide technique for 360s (this) and for 720s just forget about doing them from standing until you're really familiar with the hitbox Thanks for the link. I think I somehow missed this video and skipped to the standing 720 one, which made things confusing. Sliding one finger across the buttons just seems bizarre, but you can get a similar effect with just tapping your fingers left to right as you roll your wrist a little. Doing that, I can get a 360 to come out reliably already. At the risk of being stubborn though (and ignoring SFIV mechanics in the SFIV thread): is it possible to learn to do a legitimate 720? Looking at the inputs, I think I've done legitimate 360s before by rolling my fingers across the buttons to make sure two are held down at once between the individual inputs (e.g diagonals), but doubling that input for 720 seems like it'd take a lot of practice. Then again, I should probably worry about fundamentals and "simpler" motions before worrying about 720s if I'm not starting with T-Hawk/Hakan/Gief, right?
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Apr 24, 2014 19:38
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While we're on the subject of execution things, I've been wondering about something and haven't really been able to find a tutorial on it - and that's charge character Ultras after a backdash or FADC. I can do a dash forward ultra, but I can't do it consistently. To dash, I generally double tap the stick forward or back - I'm not actually gripping the ball when I do it. With my hand or thumb (depending on the side), I'll tap forward, forward. However I've found when I do this the ultra doesn't come out. To get it to come out, I've found I need to keep my fingers glued to the ball, and press forward, manually move it back to neutral, forward, slide it to back, slide it forward. Of course the dash doesn't come out all the time. I'm not sure how to do it from a backdash either, or how to do it from a focus attack. It almost seems like people do a FA, dash forward or back, hold down back for half a second, and then do their ultra. Generally I can only ultra after a focus attack when I don't dash after the crumple and just hope I time it right, or in the case of Balrog, do cr.mp or whatever into headbutt to juggle.
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Apr 24, 2014 20:09
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It's really easy on a hitbox if that's any help.  I've never been able to consistently do it on a stick, I'm really bad at the dash motion.
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Apr 24, 2014 20:11
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Oh man, so going by this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXuNJY9aOk4 Poison can still special cancel her sweep just like SFxT, that is going to rule. *ed* That combined with the fact that she seems to actually have a good focus attack, and her DP is invincible on startup without having to spend bar means I am very likely switching mains from Rose to her. Evil Canadian fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 21:54
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Ugh, I really don't like rekka characters, but Poison just looks so good.
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Apr 24, 2014 21:59
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Evil Canadian posted:Oh man, so going by this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXuNJY9aOk4 Poison can still special cancel her sweep just like SFxT, that is going to rule. That special cancel her sweep is going to get removed. It's a glitch left over from the port from SFxT.
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Apr 24, 2014 22:20
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Interstellar Owl posted:That special cancel her sweep is going to get removed. It's a glitch left over from the port from SFxT. that makes combofiend a jerk for using it, since he would be the one to know its a bug and will be removed.
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Apr 24, 2014 22:31
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Fauxtool posted:that makes combofiend a jerk for using it, since he would be the one to know its a bug and will be removed. Pretty sure he's also the rear end in a top hat that said Honda players need to play smarter (with the nerfs to Honda). I can't quote it though
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Apr 24, 2014 22:33
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Normally I have massive problems with doing 360 motion on keyboard but I found a way that works really well for me. QCB then tap F and Up. I don't really know how input mechanics work but maybe someone who knows about it could tell me if it's possible to make a 720 motion from that? I played Zangief for a bit and it's really fun. It would be nice to be able to do his Ultras.
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Apr 24, 2014 22:41
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Gammatron 64 posted:I'm not sure how to do it from a backdash either, or how to do it from a focus attack. It almost seems like people do a FA, dash forward or back, hold down back for half a second, and then do their ultra. Well, they can. There's enough time in a crumple state off a level 3 focus attack to get a full 55 frame charge, so it's just a question of if your ultra will be able to hit properly in the late crumple animation frames where the opponent is considered airborne. edit: added correction: you need to do it off a level 3 focus attack though Periodiko fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 22:42
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Jack Trades posted:Normally I have massive problems with doing 360 motion on keyboard but I found a way that works really well for me. I never could do a standing 720. 9/10 you are going to want to buffer the motion. Jump, do the 720 motion, land, hit 3p/3k. Hit a normal and execute the 720 during the recovery, 3p/3k. FADC, 720, 3p/3k. You get the idea. Same goes for, say Akuma Ultra 2. One of the things Infiltration was doing against PR Balrog at NCR this weekend was picking Ultra 2 and teleporting out of the corner. If Rog tries to chase it with a rush punch, you can punish by buffering the inputs of the Ultra during the animation and hitting the 3p when it stops.
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Apr 24, 2014 22:55
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Nativity In Black posted:I never could do a standing 720. 9/10 you are going to want to buffer the motion. Jump, do the 720 motion, land, hit 3p/3k. Hit a normal and execute the 720 during the recovery, 3p/3k. FADC, 720, 3p/3k. You get the idea. Okay, I see. Though I still wonder which inputs are required for a 720 motion. I know that 360 needs 2486 but what about 720?
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Apr 24, 2014 23:12
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Nativity In Black posted:I never could do a standing 720. 9/10 you are going to want to buffer the motion. Jump, do the 720 motion, land, hit 3p/3k. Hit a normal and execute the 720 during the recovery, 3p/3k. FADC, 720, 3p/3k. You get the idea. He's not doing it after the recovery of the teleport, he's canceling Akuma's teleport into U2. Some characters (Cammy, maybe others), can actually punish late enough that Akuma can't U2 on reaction because he's in recovery frames. Not that standing U2 is all that difficult to do anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJDxydzYSCQ
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Apr 24, 2014 23:14
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Gammatron 64 posted:I'm not sure how to do it from a backdash either, or how to do it from a focus attack. It almost seems like people do a FA, dash forward or back, hold down back for half a second, and then do their ultra. Generally I can only ultra after a focus attack when I don't dash after the crumple and just hope I time it right, or in the case of Balrog, do cr.mp or whatever into headbutt to juggle. You can buffer the dash out of a focus attack as soon as you release the buttons and it will come out as soon as possible. This allows you to start charging while the attack part of the focus is coming out, charge during the hitstop of the focus attack itself (charging ALWAYS goes by real time, you can charge during slowdown from hitstop and even during super/ultra freezes), charge during the dash, and then finish the charge after the dash, instead of just waiting 55 frames after the dash to complete your charge. In some cases it's better/easier to not dash out of the focus attack at all, in cases where you know the focus is going to hit. Just keep your charge the whole time and wait until your focus recovers then do the ultra immediately.
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Apr 24, 2014 23:15
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Jack Trades posted:Okay, I see. Though I still wonder which inputs are required for a 720 motion. 360 is all four directions in any(!) order so long as the first three are strict, i.e. directly left/down/right/up. Left right down up is a 360, not that I'm aware of a good reason to do it. The shortcut you mentioned earlier works if you go through up or forward to get the third strict input while going to up-forward. 720 is seven inputs, I want to say it's six strict directions plus one loose direction but I don't remember whether you're technically forced to go in a circle.
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Apr 25, 2014 00:21
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This is probably just me being a terrible newbie, but is there any rhyme or reason to links beyond "get a feel for it" or "know the frame data"? I'm swapping between character challenge modes just to see how their moves work and stopping when I hit something I can't do yet. It just seems like a lot of seemingly simple st.L st.M type moves vary from character to character in terms of how you link them, not to mention most cr.whatever -> specials seem to have different timings. I guess the challenges are partially to blame since the command list doesn't give you any indication of "let the Kiko-whatever hit, wait for them to fall, then EX spinning bird kick", etc. I've definitely got a new found appreciation for people I watch on stream knocking out even 3 hit combos consistently, especially considering the pressure of being on stage or even fighting someone. Ah well, I guess that's what years of practice will do for you. Edit: Geez charge characters are annoying. Yet, somehow, I can do a 720 (SFIV style) now with Honda like I couldn't do with Zangief last night? At this right, I might even be mildly competent in a week! Edit 2: And just like that, I can't do it anymore. Figures. Edit 2: OH GOD EL FUERTE! You can dash-cancel-dash so fast that it looks like the game is glitching out... not that you can control what you do during this, but tapping H or M at least gets a move out. Meanwhile, I've now learned the concept of FADC in practice: Focus -> Backdash -> Giga Buster is satisfying when you do it for the first time! ToiletDuckie fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Apr 25, 2014 |
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Apr 25, 2014 03:52
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ToiletDuckie posted:This is probably just me being a terrible newbie, but is there any rhyme or reason to links beyond "get a feel for it" or "know the frame data"? Learn how to plink. Essentially plinking doubles your inputs, doubling your chances of hitting a link. It's a bit too complicated to go into here, but there are some good FAQs on Youtube if you search around. Here's a good place to start.
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Apr 25, 2014 03:59
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ToiletDuckie posted:This is probably just me being a terrible newbie, but is there any rhyme or reason to links beyond "get a feel for it" or "know the frame data"?
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Apr 25, 2014 04:25
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I used to do walkup 720 buffered off of a low short like this, 63214741236 66666 PPP. 720s are really lenient in SF4, the buffer window is huge and the only requirement seems to be 3 directions, then a jump, then 3 more directions.
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Apr 26, 2014 07:38
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RyuApprentice just uploaded a quick tip vid that should really be a 101-level thing for SF4 but most people probably don't realize how important it is (I'm still really bad at doing it) or maybe even how to do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af8CfMUMTxE My instinct is STILL to jump away from focus or else to try and hit them if I think they're just going into a dash (which they usually are, but I get blown up when they're not). I need to practice this in matches way more because right now people that know how to fish for focus hits intelligently get a lot of free damage on me. Man I would fuckin love if Capcom put out a real strategy guide for USF4, Anniversary-Edition style with each section written by accomplished specialists for that character (including sections for the old version differences for Edition Select mode). Fighting game strategy guides are usually obsolete pretty quickly after a game comes out since there's no way to know what kind stuff will emerge from a huge playerbase trying to exploit every advantage in the game, but something that's just a summary of accumulated knowledge since 2009 tweaked for the USF4 system differences would be awesome. Would certainly like something to refer people to besides the white-noise-filled eventhubs and shoryuken.com resources we have now. Make it hardcover and call it a bible and you can have SO MUCH of my money Capcom!!!!!!!!!! Trykt fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Apr 26, 2014 |
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Apr 26, 2014 16:38
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Focus backdash is a decent response but it can become a bad habit too, it's definitely one of mine  The focus prevents the worst-case scenario where you get crumpled but it can leave you with nothing but bad options if you don't get the level 2 charge and your dashes are junk (shoutouts to Ryu's bottom 5 backdash). If you aren't also able to challenge with jump forward/raw backdash/armor break/walkup throw on reaction you'll end up giving up a lot of screen space while the other player risks nothing.The SRK forums are so garbage that I don't even know why I bother glancing at them. I spent twenty minutes in there this week looking for basic Evil Ryu stuff and the only thing I learned is that he can sweep five characters after LK tatsu. I'm sure there's a good subforum somewhere in there but I haven't seen it. At least the frame data/universal info on their wiki is good. Most of Eventhubs is trashy but whenever I've Googled my way into one of their character guides I've been pleasantly surprised by how good they are. A real strategy guide would be pretty sweet! I'd be happy enough with a Mizuumi-style wiki though, or just the SRK wiki if the individual articles for SF4 characters were fleshed out like ST's.
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Apr 26, 2014 17:36
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I tried to make that wiki a while back, and Trykt and banana ken helped a bit with it; but like all goon projects we all just forgot about it and gave up. It is really annoying though when you want to learn a new character and are looking for stuff like safejump setups and optimal punishes, but all you ever find are people who think they invented something really cool with a lovely Youtube video of some unpractical bullshit. My go to method of learning a character now is to watch a tournament video of a really good player with google docs open on a separate screen. Then I just write down all the useful stuff I see them do. It's tedious, but you at least are figuring out what works in real tournament matches rather than reading what guyfawkes69xxx on SRK does when he plays laggy matches online. My friend the other night had the "Sakura bible" pdf on his phone, and people are emailing it to each other; it's as if the internet doesn't really exist and stuff is just getting passed around on notebook paper. edit: O speaking of, since I main Chun and just watched Infiltration using her. Here are things he does that I didn't do before, which I tested out last night and they are really good. 1) His go to punish is close RH xx HK legs cr. lp st. fierce. I used to do cr. fierce xx HK legs, cr. lk xx EX legs. My reasoning for doing that was that it built nearly a bar of meter (then spent it) and got you a knockdown with over 200 damage. The combo Infiltration uses nets you way more meter, gets you I think ~180 damage, and it ends with you at scary Chun footsie range. I have started doing Cr. fierce xx HK legs, and then I plink sweep~cr.lp. If I get the sweep I'm happy, if not I do the ender Infiltration uses. I've started getting the sweep fairly often though, which is nice if you want a knockdown instead. Then if you are just wanting to guarantee you get a knockdown and end the combo without loving up, you can just mash out EX legs raw after the HK legs (this is good as a transition while you are still learning the combo, or if it's the end of the match and you know the EX legs will kill). 2) Meaty close MK is really good. It is an overhead and difficult to block (it feels like trying to block Blanka's overhead). If they get hit or even if they block it, you still end at optimal footsie range. It's -4 on block, but it pushes you far enough back that you mostly only have to worry about super punishes. 3) He seems to use a lot of meter on stuff like EX SBK follow ups to jumping fierce juggle, or often doing raw EX legs as a frame trap. I still never do this for some reason; it feels like a waste of meter to me and I like having super, but I understand why it's good and should try doing it. 4) I almost never see him use st. mk as an anti-air, and I didn't even see a lot of sweep anti-air. In some matchups he was doing jump back RH anti-air, which I have not managed to try in a match because it feels weird as poo poo and I'm so used to anti-airing with st. mk, sweep, cr. mp, and jumping fierce. I think watching how he anti-airs and forcing myself to use those would be a nice step up in my game. angel opportunity fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Apr 26, 2014 |
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Apr 26, 2014 19:29
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I actually learned something brand new from that RyuApprentice vid, I did not know you could already be holding back or downback, press focus, and then just tap back on more time to get backdash. I figured you had to buffer the double input no matter what. That's really really awesome, that should help me react a lot faster to random focuses when I'm in prox block range. It also works while walking forward obviously, which is less useful but is a safer way to randomly dash forward since it gives you a few frames of armor instead of being completely vulnerable while you buffer the dash input.
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Apr 26, 2014 19:45
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btw is GFWL shut down now? I'm trying to play on PC again and it doesn't login. Can you still play PC online?
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Apr 26, 2014 19:55
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Do you have a link to that Sakura bible? I've been thinking if picking her up.
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Apr 26, 2014 20:19
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lol... I don't... I will message my friend on Facebook and get a copy to give to you!
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Apr 26, 2014 20:20
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systran posted:btw is GFWL shut down now? I'm trying to play on PC again and it doesn't login. Can you still play PC online? Just got through with a 189 minute session or so. It's up. But it's wonky.
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Apr 26, 2014 20:21
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