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mcmagic posted:Why can't they just lien his bank accounts/tax refunds? That is what they are going to do now Rap Record Hoarder posted:Is it accurate to say that every society ever has been racist? Lots of societies have been xenophobic, and a fair few have had extreme biases against other groups, but from what I've read and been taught, the kind of ingrained, structural racism that we deal with today is a result of a very specific path of development tied to Western modernity ideas of constructing nation-states around racial and/or ethnic identities which requires juxtaposing other racial and/or ethnic groups as being antithetical or somehow otherwise inherently different (see Andrea Smith's the Three Pillars of White Supremacy). Not saying that every society before the peace of Westphalia was dancing in a circle singing Kumbaya, but there's plenty of evidence that shows many ancient societies were racially and/or ethnically diverse or at the very least, not trying to kill other people solely based on being a different color than them.
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Apr 25, 2014 20:24
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Reindeer, that being said, what is your opinion on open carry?
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Apr 25, 2014 20:25
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zoux posted:You're right in the sense that racism as we see it and as it is practiced today is a relatively recent development. But I don't think you could find a society in which bigotry in some form or another existed. Humans are going to otherize groups and classes of people, and it's that otherization that's the problem, rather than the specific flavor of bigotry applied. Just as an example, the Iroquois Confederation is often used as a positive example of how people can be free and peaceful but from external reports if you weren't part of the Confederation they would hunt you down and murder your entire family before taking your land for their own. So you know, business as usual.
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Apr 25, 2014 20:27
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ReindeerF posted:I'll take credit here, though I'm sure you had the same realization independently. I have all of you beat by about seven years on this one. I grew up with guns and still own two back home, but a very specific thing happened sometime in my teens when the gun, for many people, became a fashion accessory. Back before TFR (I also bought the original "Total loving Rednecks" SA banner) cleaved off the gun nutters from D&D, they used to poo poo up every thread with their second amendment / John Lott nonsense. It's then that it's nice to come from a gun culture background where you were taught to shoot in sand pits at like 8, are familiar with firearms, have no problem with hunting as a concept and also be able to say, "You're no different than a bunch of teenagers running to the mall to buy the latest cool pair of shoes or nerds obsessing over the latest console or whatever. You're not using guns as a tool, you're wearing them as a fashion accessory. You're rich housewives bragging about your new purse." The last one really gets people going for obvious reasons. I think I grabbed the exact articulation of it from Charles Pierce but I'm there right with you. My family was not gun friendly so my first real exposure to them was in the military, where it was hammered home that this is not a loving toy. It is a weapon, a dangerous tool with a very specific purpose, and if you use it for anything other than that purpose you are a loving idiot. So seeing people treat them like a status symbol instead of an object with a definite purpose pisses me off. Go buy an Audi if you want to claim you have a big dick, not an AR15. AR15s aren't for showing off, they are for killing and practicing to kill, nothing else. Treat them as such.
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Apr 25, 2014 20:32
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I'm wayyy behind in the thread reading about Hillary's VP choices so please excuse me, but I have a weird feeling that Hillary will not be the Democratic nominee in 2016. I'm not sure why other than it never seems to work out that way this far away from the election. It looks more and more like Jeb will be the GOP nominee though. For a long time I would have bet Christie but we know how that turned out. Maybe Rand in the VP slot to shore up the conservative cred. By GOP standards, that's not a horrible ticket really.
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Apr 25, 2014 20:34
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BiggerBoat posted:I'm wayyy behind in the thread reading about Hillary's VP choices so please excuse me, but I have a weird feeling that Hillary will not be the Democratic nominee in 2016. I'm not sure why other than it never seems to work out that way this far away from the election.
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Apr 25, 2014 20:43
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Fried Chicken posted:I think I grabbed the exact articulation of it from Charles Pierce but I'm there right with you. My family was not gun friendly so my first real exposure to them was in the military, where it was hammered home that this is not a loving toy. It is a weapon, a dangerous tool with a very specific purpose, and if you use it for anything other than that purpose you are a loving idiot. So seeing people treat them like a status symbol instead of an object with a definite purpose pisses me off. Go buy an Audi if you want to claim you have a big dick, not an AR15. AR15s aren't for showing off, they are for killing and practicing to kill, nothing else. Treat them as such. I wonder how a "counter" protest would work where people show up with all sorts of tools, bragging about how open carry of saws and drills and hammers will lead to a society that rewards work and how condemning all these things to the basement and the shed is what's holding the country back. Because, you know, nothing says "I understand what this tool is used for" like carrying is around all the drat time and brandishing it like a little kid with a new action figure. "Hey, come look at my new Ryobi vibrating multi-tool! Look, it's dayglo yellow, and the man at the store said it was contractor grade. I can cut things easily with it! I even get to wear a utility belt, like Batman! I'm a responsible adult!"
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Apr 25, 2014 20:44
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Fried Chicken posted:At this point in 2007 she was up 23 points on her competition. Presently she is up 55. I think the only way she doesn't get the nomination is if she doesn't run Eh, it's not like anyone else has really started acting like a contender apart from maybe Biden. Considering the non-Obama 2008 field consisted of the two of them, Edwards (lol), and a bunch of dudes who got a few percentage points each, I think we'd have to wait until some other people started actually raising their profile before we start making predictions like that. The probable Republican candidates have been way better at making noise and drawing attention to themselves so far, for all the good it's done them. loquacius fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Apr 25, 2014 |
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Apr 25, 2014 20:47
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If Hillary wants it, the nom is hers. It's her loving turn.
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Apr 25, 2014 20:49
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zoux posted:If Hillary wants it, the nom is hers. It's her loving turn. Gotta be careful with poo poo like this, it's how the GOP ended up with Romney 2012. e: also how the Dems ended up with McAuliffe in VA
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Apr 25, 2014 20:49
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loquacius posted:Gotta be careful with poo poo like this, it's how the GOP ended up with Romney 2012. Actually it was the opposite of that because instead of everyone recognizing who the best candidate was for the party's chances at the White House and standing aside they had retard thunderdome for eight months and ended up where they should've started from in the beginning.
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Apr 25, 2014 20:51
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loquacius posted:Gotta be careful with poo poo like this, it's how the GOP ended up with Romney 2012. No one really wanted Romney, whereas Hillary isn't really divisive unless you're mcmagic and/or still care about how people voted for the Iraq War.
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Apr 25, 2014 20:51
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Spoilers Below posted:I wonder how a "counter" protest would work where people show up with all sorts of tools, bragging about how open carry of saws and drills and hammers will lead to a society that rewards work and how condemning all these things to the basement and the shed is what's holding the country back. Because, you know, nothing says "I understand what this tool is used for" like carrying is around all the drat time and brandishing it like a little kid with a new action figure. This would accomplish - at most - nothing, but it is certainly a hilarious mental image 
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Apr 25, 2014 20:53
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I'm getting a Biden -> Clinton Secretary of State vibe. He's certainly trying out the diplomat shoes lately.
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Apr 25, 2014 20:54
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Let's say you're a 12 term, 90 year old, Republican Congressman from Texas in a R+21 district. What do you spend your campaign donations on? If you're Ralph Hall, the answer to that question is obviously $33,000 worth of ham and chocolate. 
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Apr 25, 2014 21:03
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Rap Record Hoarder posted:the kind of ingrained, structural racism that we deal with today is a result of a very specific path of development tied to Western modernity ideas of constructing nation-states around racial and/or ethnic identities which requires juxtaposing other racial and/or ethnic groups as being antithetical or somehow otherwise inherently different (see Andrea Smith's the Three Pillars of White Supremacy).
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Apr 25, 2014 21:07
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Joementum posted:Let's say you're a 12 term, 90 year old, Republican Congressman from Texas in a R+21 district. What do you spend your campaign donations on? Finally, a politician that shares my spending priorities! Alternate take: Now that's pork barrel spending! Seriously though, it's a pretty sensible move. If you are in a low population area like that the personal touch is the way to go. I knew an IL state rep who made a point to speak with every voter in his district directly at least once between election cycles. The bigger campaign people who came through didn't get it, but he did it every time and kept winning, so there you are. Sending your constituents ham and chocolate is on the same level. It shows you are thinking of them and establishes a personal connection. Besides, here we have a republican donating food to people less rich than him. That's like finding a unicorn
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Apr 25, 2014 21:11
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I've already seen two articles claiming that Bundy was taken out of context, as proved by his talk about how Mexican people aren't that bad. Can someone please explain to me the context where implying black people were better off under literal chattel slavery is ok. Please. Go for it. I'm pretty sure everyone got the bullshit point he was trying to make already. Government bad. We got it. Thanks for the clarity.
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Apr 25, 2014 21:11
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Emron posted:I've already seen two articles claiming that Bundy was taken out of context, as proved by his talk about how Mexican people aren't that bad. "Here is my impression of a racist rear end in a top hat. Ready?"
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Apr 25, 2014 21:13
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Uh, clearly you took it out of context as well, good sir! He said Spanish people aren't that bad even if they don't follow the laws that the Constitution set out for immigration. They're the good ones, because they work and live in a way he approves of and also benefits him.
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Apr 25, 2014 21:14
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Joementum posted:Let's say you're a 12 term, 90 year old, Republican Congressman from Texas in a R+21 district. What do you spend your campaign donations on? Add weed and beer and, if I somehow make it to 90, that'll look a lot like my weekly shopping list, so eh whatever.
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Apr 25, 2014 21:16
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Doctor Butts posted:Uh, clearly you took it out of context as well, good sir! Another Project Veritas plot, foiled again.
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Apr 25, 2014 21:31
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I don't know how typical I am as a voting Democrat, but in 2008, I voted for Obama over Hillary in the primary because I really bought into Obama's idea that he could bring civil discourse back to Washington, and felt that Hilary would be more divisive. Roughly 2 months into Obama's first term, I had already fully realized how naive I had been to think so. It seemed to me that this was a pretty common mode of thought among registered Democrats. I felt like leading up to the election and inauguration, I would talk excitedly with other Democrats about how great it was going to be to return to a post-partisan America...and then around the time "our side" was giving everything away for nothing in return over the Stimulus was about the time all the literal same people were just wanting someone to hit the Republican bullies back, hard. Deserved or not, I think Hilary is seen as someone who will indeed hit back, despite the fact that her husband had been known for negotiating. Since the election, I personally have come to identify more with the left wing of the party than with the larger tent of the party itself, and have definite reservations about her on those grounds. However, if my shift in perspective was not uncommon, and I don't think it was, then yeah, I think the nomination is hers to lose. I don't think we'll see another upstart like Obama this time, certainly not if one comes in like he did, claiming to be able to cut through the partisan-ship. I don't think the party is ready to buy that line again. I think the Democrats are about ready to elect a partisan fighter, and Hilary is at least perceived as such (largely thanks to the ways Republicans have painted her of course). Maybe the most excitement we could hope for is if someone runs against her from the left, but while leftist thinking is more popular than it was, I don't think it's become anywhere near ascendant enough to dethrone Hilary...but it might push her platform slightly left. You can say what you want about Hilary, but like her husband, she'll support pretty much any idea that's has majority popularity in the country, and doesn't let useless things like personal principles stand in the way.
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Apr 25, 2014 21:32
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Justus posted:I don't know how typical I am as a voting Democrat, but in 2008, I voted for Obama over Hillary in the primary because I really bought into Obama's idea that he could bring civil discourse back to Washington, Yeah we pretty much all did.
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Apr 25, 2014 21:32
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zoux posted:Yeah we pretty much all did. Though to be fair he didn't fail due to lack of trying.
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Apr 25, 2014 21:34
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computer parts posted:Though to be fair he didn't fail due to lack of trying. No, it's because Republicans predictably (in hindsight) responded to his outreach by going "Oh, so your big thing is bi-partisanship, huh? And...that means all we have to do to turn you into a failure is refuse to be negotiated with? Ha...ha ha... HAHAHAHAHA!!!"
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Apr 25, 2014 21:37
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Justus posted:No, it's because Republicans predictably (in hindsight) responded to his outreach by going "Oh, so your big thing is bi-partisanship, huh? And...that means all we have to do to turn you into a failure is refuse to be negotiated with? Ha...ha ha... HAHAHAHAHA!!!" Well that and his own party refused to stand together half of the time (because big tent politics).
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Apr 25, 2014 21:38
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Justus posted:No, it's because Republicans predictably (in hindsight) responded to his outreach by going "Oh, so your big thing is bi-partisanship, huh? And...that means all we have to do to turn you into a failure is refuse to be negotiated with? Ha...ha ha... HAHAHAHAHA!!!" Obama isn't blameless in all this mate.
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Apr 25, 2014 21:39
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Joementum posted:Add former US Representative Joe Walsh to the list of people still defending Cliven Bundy and his position on From a few pages back but I just have to say that every time I see or hear the name Joe Walsh, this goes off in my head.
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Apr 25, 2014 21:40
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So how do you say something so stupid even local Tea Party people disown you? Ask Drew Turiano: http://mtstandard.com/news/local/turiano-says-he-s-his-own-man-in-house-race/article_2c1e529a-cb4f-11e3-b3a0-001a4bcf887a.html quote:Turiano, 40, has run a low-key campaign, raising and spending little money, but has drawn controversy. The good news is, I live in Helena and have never heard of this guy.
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Apr 25, 2014 21:41
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Emron posted:I've already seen two articles claiming that Bundy was taken out of context, as proved by his talk about how Mexican people aren't that bad. Anyone claiming that Bundy isn't racist at this point has the bar for 'racist' set so high that no living person qualifies. Bundy can't be a real racist unless he's covered from head to toe in swastika tattoos, wears a klan hood 24/7, and reflexively shoots every minority that crosses his field of vision. Since Bundy is apparently OK with some "Spanish" people, he can't possibly be that elusive "true racist" and is just somehow misunderstood.
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Apr 25, 2014 21:41
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CitizenKain posted:So how do you say something so stupid even local Tea Party people disown you? Ask Drew Turiano: quote:About Drew Turiano 
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Apr 25, 2014 21:53
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zoux posted:Yeah we pretty much all did. I can't imagine why or how.
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Apr 25, 2014 21:55
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No guys, right-wing politician Hillary Clinton will unite with the right-wing Democratic Party to fight to move our country to the left!
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Apr 25, 2014 23:03
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Michael Grimm (R-NY) will be indicted for campaign finance violations and the GOP is stuck with him on the ballot in that district. Meanwhile, Steve Stockman is facing a House Ethics violation for bad FEC filings, which may be connected to the fact that he decided to accept bitcoin donations. And a candidate for Lt. Gov. of South Carolina wants to abolish public schools because they aren't in the Bible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4_DaY3Uzis
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Apr 25, 2014 23:10
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Joementum posted:And a candidate for Lt. Gov. of South Carolina wants to abolish public schools because they aren't in the Bible. He's gonna feel so silly when he remembers that America isn't in the Bible. ...wait, he isn't a secessionist, is he?
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Apr 25, 2014 23:14
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Joementum posted:And a candidate for Lt. Gov. of South Carolina wants to abolish public schools because they aren't in the Bible. Neither was the united States of America, should it be abolished too?
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Apr 25, 2014 23:15
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Joementum posted:Michael Grimm (R-NY) will be indicted for campaign finance violations and the GOP is stuck with him on the ballot in that district.
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Apr 25, 2014 23:25
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pangstrom posted:This is the guy who got caught on camera threatening to throw a reporter (who asked about the charges) off a balcony A reporter related to one of the big time Mafia families, no less.
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Apr 25, 2014 23:30
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Joementum posted:Let's say you're a 12 term, 90 year old, Republican Congressman from Texas in a R+21 district. What do you spend your campaign donations on? quote:A spokesman for Ratcliffe noted Hall sent a 7-pound ham to Ratcliffe after Ratcliffe announced he was running against the 90-year-old incumbent. What a dick. It's one thing to attack your opponent, it's another thing to attack your opponent for giving you a ham for Christmas.
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Apr 25, 2014 23:32
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