|
Mazz posted:Those missed units threads are pretty great, although it makes me sad because I don't think we're getting any unit DLC past the big one, they seem very burnt out with WG. Chief Savage Man posted:I think a hot war would have the effect of a lot of prototypes being rushed out of the lab to actual battle so I personally don't mind it. I still where you're coming from though.
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 21:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 22:37 |
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:I loaded up Climb Mount Noradnaya, spent about 15 minutes looking at the map and the various units, and closed it again. That looks like something that will take serious planning to pull off competently. It's not that tough, really. You can cut off quite a lot of reinforcements if you buy a naval group in the southern reinforcement zone and use it to cut off the American naval group before it lands. Also it allows you to buy helicopter infantry regiments and attack helicopter regiments which make the game quite a bit easier.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 21:30
|
|
|
No hot war would result in the Eurofighter Typhoon entering service in 1990 or even 1995 instead of 2003.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 21:32
|
|
|
Dave47 posted:The time frames of Red Dragon's various World War 3 triggers are short enough that it wouldn't really be realistic to rush things out of labs. (It's even too short to allow for simpler things, like the mobilization of US National Guard units.) That said, this is a RTS video game and not a serious simulation of global warfare. Plus, since AirLand Battle we've moved into an alternate history where the Berlin Wall never came down, and made-up units like the Chimera are real. So you can dodge any realism-based unit inclusion arguments at this point. I think the basic underlying premise is that the Cold War never really got too cool, and Hawks on both sides stayed in control the entire time. So both sides rushed prototypes into (limited) production runs because the Russians are gonna cross the border tomorrow mark my words! T___A posted:Thoughts on this deck? Motostrelki are line infantry, and they are the line infantry with literally the worst guns in the game. Get Spetznaz. What the hell are you gonna do with 32 (!) ATGMs, and the worst you can get to boot? Get Konkurs teams. Same goes for 32 T64As and 40 T62/1975s. A single Mig 31 is not enough to really provide air superiority, but you have a shitton of SAMs to make up for that. Il 102s are very mediocre as bombers - slow and vulnerable, with a decent bombload. 6 recon jeeps are too little. You need at least recon helicopters, and recon infantry serve a very useful role as well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 21:33
|
|
|
T___A posted:Thoughts on this deck? Well, let's see: -Too many CVs -Motostrelki are terrible -I would drop a card of the Buks for better OSAs (I like the mid range one) -The T64As are your only good tank choice. Drop the T-62s (they're terrible even as spamtanks) and get higher range tanks like T64Bs or T-72As if you feel like spamming. The t-80BV should either be replaced with a card of Ultra-high end tanks (T-80U, T-72BU) or with a card of T-64BVs. -Take your tanks at hardened veterancy at the very least. If they panic they'll die really loving fast. -AHAHAHAHahahah you have no worthwhile recon. Consider: 1.A recon Helo 2. Recon infantry 3. The BRM-1k for its exceptional optics and armor. -Motostrelki are terrible -You are not going to use that many Afghanskiis. Why would you, when you could have the God-slaying BMPT? -Helicopters look fine -You only have expensive Aircraft options, consider the Yak-38 napalm bombers -You haven't use all of your naval slots. They're free. Use them. A card of marines or more ships is always nice. -Motostrelki are terrible -You have a LOT of Bad ATGMS. Drop the UAZs and the Faktoriya infantry, get better ATGM infantry. Hell, get Spetznaz, you already have choppers to kill tanks. In summation: D- see me after class. There's not really a solid doctrine behind this deck other than trying to throw a ton of bad units at the enemy. If that's how you want to play, East Germany, China, or North Korea is probably much more suited to that playstyle.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 21:34
|
|
|
It's so hard to understand whats 'good' for a new player. Looking at and reading about all this malarky about infantry guns and line infantry being poo poo is bad enough to confuse me but during these discussions it seems to almost be taken for granted that its completely obvious what transports you can take the things in are the poo poo vs just being poo poo. I also get flustered over tanks stuff like fighter planes. I cannot work out at what point a tank is overcosted and lovely or what ones are actually the ones to take.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 21:54
|
|
|
Mr Teatime posted:It's so hard to understand whats 'good' for a new player. Looking at and reading about all this malarky about infantry guns and line infantry being poo poo is bad enough to confuse me but during these discussions it seems to almost be taken for granted that its completely obvious what transports you can take the things in are the poo poo vs just being poo poo. I also get flustered over tanks stuff like fighter planes. I cannot work out at what point a tank is overcosted and lovely or what ones are actually the ones to take. We really need to stress how less spergy the mumble is than the thread. Its much easier to give newbies a good idea what to take when we dont have spreadsheets and their accursed numbers being scary on every page. Not that the spreadsheets are a bad thing, but they scare off the newbies.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 22:02
|
|
|
The real answer is pubbies are bad, bring whatever the gently caress you want. Hop on mumble and we can share decks and poo poo. You'll quickly pick up what's dangerous and what isn't.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 22:10
|
|
|
Triggerhappypilot posted:Well, let's see: http://i.imgur.com/Uu0h4k4.png
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 22:12
|
|
|
Mr Teatime posted:It's so hard to understand whats 'good' for a new player. Looking at and reading about all this malarky about infantry guns and line infantry being poo poo is bad enough to confuse me but during these discussions it seems to almost be taken for granted that its completely obvious what transports you can take the things in are the poo poo vs just being poo poo. I also get flustered over tanks stuff like fighter planes. I cannot work out at what point a tank is overcosted and lovely or what ones are actually the ones to take. Even for experienced players, a lot of it is not at all obvious. But experienced players approach making a deck differently. Don't try to just chose "good" units. Try to make them fit your strategy (admittedly, I am physically incapable of playing gimmick decks). Cost efficiency is a thing, but I have never had a game where I could have said "if that unit cost five points less I would have won". Deck Checklist for me: LOG: - fast wheeled/cost efficient CV - armored CV - 2x Supply transport INF: - 1 card Heliborne infantry, preferably SF (more to taste), these guys are used to seize cities - 1 card ATGM - 1 card shock infantry in fastest transport I can find - 1 card MANPAD (personal preference) TANK: - 1 card cheap spam tank (25 points or less)(personal preference, I'm starting to sour at this tbh) - 1 card medium priced medium tank (50-75 points each) - 1 or more card of heavy, expensive tanks SUPPORT: - 1 card short range SAM - 1 card AA gun vehicle - 1 card long range SAM - 1 card mortars or heavier artillery RECON: - 1 card recon infantry (lowest veterancy, you want them for coverage) - 1 card recon helicopter - 1 card recon vehicle VEH: - whatever, I consider this a filler category to fill out weaknesses in the rest of the deck HEL: - 1 card AA helicopter (if available) - 1 card ATGM helicopter (optional) PLANE: - as many high level ASFs as I can find - 1 card ATGM plane - 1 card Napalm or decent iron bomber (4x 500 kg minimum) - 1 card heavy bomber (1000 kg bombs)(if available) Obviously all of these are dependent on what is available, but I feel that such a deck covers most bases. The decision which unit fits which role is a bit more difficult, but people shouldn't fret too much. It is very rare that a unit is blatantly overpowered (FSJ90s were probably the most extreme examples since the ALB beta BMPT), at worst you get a unit that is kinda bad at their job.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 22:19
|
|
|
Hey so this got lost since we didn't discuss patch notes but they nerfed flame tanks into the ground.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 22:38
|
|
|
T___A posted:Thanks, hopefully this deck is less lovely than my last one. -I'd swap a card of supply trucks for a command tank, or otherwise just have a free space in logistics. -Spetz can't really act as your sole infantry squad given their lack of anti-tank power. I'd swap one card out for some shock infantry with LAWs, such as Morskaya Pehota. -Two cards of Konkurs is excessive. Line infantry are OK if you bring them in good IFVs at high vetereancy. A card of Motostrelki in BMP-1P, BMP-1986 or BMP-3 would be good, carrying ATGMs themsevles, and you should probably swap the remaining Konkurs squad for Konkurs-M. -I think you previous two cards of Buks were fine (TOR are also good), but you should take them at hardened vet. Don't forget to turn the Tunguskas guns off to avoid SEAD missiles. You also need a non-radar AA option, so I'd ditch the 9K33 OSA for Strela-10. -Three cards of medium tanks is excessive. You should swap one card out for more high-end tanks. -Recon is over-stuffed, you can drop a card of BRM-1K at the very least. -Get a Burrito  -You can probably ditch a card of helicopters and squeeze two more cards of planes in there.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 22:39
|
|
|
Tulip posted:Hey so this got lost since we didn't discuss patch notes but they nerfed flame tanks into the ground. I haven't booted up in a couple of days, but if they took away indirect fire again I don't think I will bother  .
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 22:40
|
|
|
VendoViper posted:I haven't booted up in a couple of days, but if they took away indirect fire again I don't think I will bother That is precisely what happened. Mukip posted:
If you're diligent about turning Tunguska guns off, that is a non-rad AA.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 22:43
|
|
|
They also removed indirect fire from ships, so they're back to having basically no effect on the ground war.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 22:50
|
|
|
T___A posted:Thanks, hopefully this deck is less lovely than my last one. -LOG should be fine. -You don't need two cards of Konkurs. Drop one and get VDV or Morskaya, or maybe Strelki in high-end transports, though effective use of expensive infantry/IFV pairs can take some time to learn. I would also say that at least one card of infantry should come in helos; in this case I'd say get one card of the Spetz in a helo, probably one of the Mi-8 variants. -Support choices are fine but step up the veterancy on the SAMs. You have enough cards that you probably won't call them all in, so higher veterancy makes them more cost-effective. -As said, you won't use three full cards of medium tanks. Take one, maybe two cards. My spread of USSR tanks (as a suggestion, not a strong recommendation--feel around to see what works for your playstyle) usually goes one card basic T-64s or T-72As (the tradeoff is between offense/defense, the T-64s shoot better and the T-72s take shots better), one card 80-100pt tanks like the T-64B or BM or one of the -72 variants (again, tradeoffs), and one card of heavies, at least -64BVs or better. So I'd say from here, swap out one or two cards of the 55-pt tanks for a card of the 80-100pts. -You went overboard with the recon. Drop two cards of the vehicles; I'd say keep the Exceptional BRM-1Ks, and think about picking up the Spetz-VMF sniper teams, sniper teams are great. -You're missing out on the really great VHC choices that USSR gets by taking the 20pt missile jeeps, which are (generally) too fragile to be super useful. I'd say take flame tanks or Buratinos. BMPTs are incredible, so keep those. You might also pick up the excellent (if used properly) Shturm missile carriers. -Helo choices are fine. Hinds wreck poo poo. -Get a fighter again. Maybe YAK-141s. Keep the others, they're good choices (if that's the napalm Yak? Is it? I can never remember which is which). -Think about ASM planes, they're stupid useful.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 23:05
|
|
|
Chantilly Say posted:-LOG should be fine. http://i.imgur.com/M9jRBgu.png
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 23:26
|
|
|
I personally tend to prefer the Su-27K for AShM plane, even if it has only one missile, buying it before you even know if the enemy has ships is totally viable because it's a really really good fighter. It makes it easier to react to finding out the enemy's gone naval if you've already got an AShM plane or two. However, the JH-7 does fire two missiles, which is really nice. You might want to consider the later sapery if you find yourself in more forest fights than city fights, the earlier sapery are better in cities. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Apr 25, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 23:55
|
|
|
The Su-27K may only have 1 missile, but I'll be damned if it isn't a quality missile.VendoViper posted:I haven't booted up in a couple of days, but if they took away indirect fire again I don't think I will bother Mortabis posted:Eugen should stealth-remove fuel as a meaningful mechanic by making each unit of fuel worth 10 seconds of travel rather than 1. Presently the real autonomy is about 3% of the listed autonomy for tracked vehicles and 4% for wheeled ones, on roads. So something with 200km autonomy listed can actually only drive about 6km on roads, which isn't very far. It's really confusing.  For reference, 6km. Since the M48 has 250km autonomy it should run out of gas at around 7.5km according to you. So accounting for the fact that the roads aren't straight it should run out of gas a little past here.  This is where it actually ran out of gas. If you drew a straight line to the start point it's about 15km, but that's obviously really inaccurate because the winding roads the tank had to take to get there.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 00:10
|
|
|
T___A posted:Thanks how is this? I would change one of the CVs to command infantry, ideally in helicopters. The Feibao isn't the best ASM plane. I'd use either the Su-27K or the MiG-29. Su-27K doubles as a great fighter but is useless against blobs, the MiG-29 carries 4 ASMs which means it can target even well-defended ships.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 00:19
|
|
|
Insert name here posted:Yeah that's not true, at least in all instances. Did a quick test with the German M48 (250km autonomy): This reads like an admonishment but it's not like he's very far out!
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 00:34
|
|
|
T___A posted:Thanks how is this? Not bad; just recognize that you're taking numerically few squads of good infantry, so you can win fights in cities and forests but not necessarily stick around and garrison them. Spetz and VDV will kill most other infantry but they die to bombs, napalm and artillery just like anybody else.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 00:44
|
|
|
Insert name here posted:The Su-27K may only have 1 missile, but I'll be damned if it isn't a quality missile. Huh. I got that number by taking the road speed (110 km/h or 150 km/h), dividing by 3600 seconds/hour, and then multiplying by the listed autonomy*seconds. The speeds must not be accurate either in in-game distance terms.  I mean, we know they lie about boat and infantry speeds. God I'm confused.
Mortabis fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Apr 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 00:56
|
|
|
T___A posted:Thanks how is this? Not bad, I would play it. Though I would consider dropping the OSAs for Strela-10Ms so you have less expensive non-radar AA that can fire on the move with your tanks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 00:57
|
|
|
So I'm playing Bear Vs dragon and I've basically destroyed the pocket of troops north of Vladistock but the USSR is just sitting to the east despite having t80s and poo poo. Am I going to have to attack them to win?
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 01:11
|
|
|
Climb Mount Narodnaia is fun  And taking out two Japanese Tank Regiments in a single fight is a bit... easier, I guess, when they all do such silly things as this:    And all using a single VDV regiment and an Anti-Tank Coy. No supply though, which led to a lot of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkzoIewfylo
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 01:47
|
|
|
gently caress trophy 2k14 posted:So I'm playing Bear Vs dragon and I've basically destroyed the pocket of troops north of Vladistock but the USSR is just sitting to the east despite having t80s and poo poo. Am I going to have to attack them to win? Yes, and I'm not sure whether or not this is a bug. You'd think the purpose of their super duper OOTF attack force was to retake a vital installation, rather than to stare at a vital installation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 01:48
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:I loaded up Climb Mount Noradnaya, spent about 15 minutes looking at the map and the various units, and closed it again. That looks like something that will take serious planning to pull off competently. Marine regiments are very potent indeed since you can use the Nanushkas to annihilate land forces near the coast. A single marine regiment can take a sector by itself in this way.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 02:16
|
|
|
Tulip posted:So, unless things changed from ALB, "supply" is per salvo, and supply*2.8s/100supply=rearmtime, assuming that hasn't changed (2.8 is approximate and empirical, it may be a little higher/lower). I tested with the MiG-25RBT and the Mirage F1CT (6 AP5 line bombs and 6 AP6 tight group bombs) and they both reliably killed any top armor 1 vehicle in the pattern. The biggest problem for both is the splash area of the bombs. The MiG-25RBT doesn't do as much damage as it should because any one target will only get hit by 2 or 3 bombs. The Mirage F1CT does a lot of damage in the center of the pattern but if your mouse cursor is even a quarter-inch (0.6 centimeters) off on an average zoom setting you can go from a dead tank battalion to a tank battalion with 2-5 health left on each tank. I did come out of the test with more respect for the Mirage F1CT; they outperformed the Tornado IDS with its tight grouping of 500kg bombs in every anti-vehicle task I sent them after. Even in destroying 1 AV transports. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Apr 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 02:31
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:I tested with the MiG-25RBT and the Mirage F1CT (6 AP5 line bombs and 6 AP6 tight group bombs) and they both reliably killed any top armor 1 vehicle in the pattern. The biggest problem for both is the splash area of the bombs. The MiG-25RBT doesn't do as much damage as it should because any one target will only get hit by 2 or 3 bombs. The Mirage F1CT does a lot of damage in the center of the pattern but if your mouse cursor is even a quarter-inch (0.6 centimeters) off on an average zoom setting you can go from a dead tank battalion to a tank battalion with 2-5 health left on each tank. Unless i've gone crazy, the current damage table is 3.0 damage to AV1 from AP5. So long as your target is hit by 4 bombs (totally possible), they go down(if strength=10). The odds are better if you go with something like the Aardvark, since AP4 also needs 4 hits to kill AV1, though of course the calculus changes for different AVs. What i was really referring to was that even the crappiest cluster bombers could reliably obliterate whole columns of light vehicles, which i personally never thought was very broken and was actually interesting since clusterbombers were quite distinct from AGM planes, and with them less powerful than that they're kind of...underwhelming. I'm not surprised the F1CT outperformed the IDS, iron bombs are really there for HouseMans (the radius on clusters is huuuuuge compared to iron). I would be interested in hearing what the AV tasks you had were, though (data data must have data).
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 02:58
|
|
|
I just got this game today, and am interested in not sucking.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 03:04
|
|
|
It is a long and steep road, but it is populated with goons. The mumble's probably the best idea, and you can probably pester someone for a good deck and rough idea how to use it. (The second bit is important, and I'd really love to see more decks posted with the ideas behind them, because the same deck can be great or merely decent depending on how it's going to be used)
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 03:15
|
|
|
Tulip posted:Unless i've gone crazy, the current damage table is 3.0 damage to AV1 from AP5. So long as your target is hit by 4 bombs (totally possible), they go down(if strength=10). The odds are better if you go with something like the Aardvark, since AP4 also needs 4 hits to kill AV1, though of course the calculus changes for different AVs. Mostly dropping bombs on ZTZ-59s and ZSD-90s.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 03:22
|
|
|
Mortabis posted:Huh. 1. The vehicle are in m/s. (e: but not infantry and certainly not boats. Helicopters are unknown.) 2. -50% penalty to speed in cover for wheeled, -33% for tracked. 3. 250s autonmy at 110 road speed equates to about 27.5km onroad driving, and significantly less offroad. Small-medium maps tend to be about 30km down one axis and roads never go especially straight. To be honest it's the offroad performance that really kills low autonomy. 250*50=12.5km. Bearing in mind that driving through cover will decrease that further, as will stat effects like "stuck in the mud". Shanakin fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Apr 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 05:19
|
|
|
Shanakin posted:1. The vehicle are in m/s. (e: but not infantry and certainly not boats. Helicopters are unknown.) Wait helicopters are unknown!? Are pshawn's tests gibberish?
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 05:42
|
|
|
I think I simply missed them tbh.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 05:43
|
|
|
I literally haven't played an RTS since red alert 2, so it's been more than 10 years, but I bought this because it looked cool. Is there any hope whatsoever for my old-man sensibilities? I'm starting to wonder what kind of learning curve I'm looking at before, for instance, deck building doesn't seem like an unconquerable discipline. People are on the CTS mumble server pretty much all the time, right?
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 05:44
|
|
|
So I like RTS and I like deck-building games, so I think I might like this one! A few questions: 1)Having not played any of the previous Wargame title, how easy would it be for me to get into the latest, Red Dragon? 2)Is the campaign/tutorial good at teaching the mechanics? 3)I dislike micromanaging units, is it possible to play without doing a lot of micro? 4)How is the action paced? Is there time to think about what you're doing, or do you need to act extremely fast like in competitive RTS games? 5)Will my machine be able to run the game decently? My specs are: Phenom II x4 3.2ghz, Radeon 5850 1gb, 8gb ram.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 05:47
|
|
|
The main things that make the game hard from a newbie perspective: 1)There's just a shitload of data (unit stats and such). You don't need to memorize it by any means, but just the fact that it's THERE is a little overwhelming. 2)LOS is a really big deal, and really poorly indicated. The game mechanically has fog of war and for really dumb reasons doesn't tell you about it. 3)There's a bunch of intuitive stuff...and then there's poo poo like our endless tables of machine guns. We're working on making that poo poo presentable, but this thread is totally where the sausage gets made. But anyway yea i'm pretty confident that just about anybody can pick this up. It's not even as hard as it advertises itself to be.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 06:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 22:37 |
|
|
LegioPraetoria posted:I literally haven't played an RTS since red alert 2, so it's been more than 10 years, but I bought this because it looked cool. Is there any hope whatsoever for my old-man sensibilities? I'm starting to wonder what kind of learning curve I'm looking at before, for instance, deck building doesn't seem like an unconquerable discipline. People are on the CTS mumble server pretty much all the time, right? I wouldn't say there's round the clock coverage every day, but there's pretty solid coverage. Especially during Euro, American and Aus peak times. There's about 15-20 people on right now for example. That makes about 3 games running at the moment Mr.48 posted:So I like RTS and I like deck-building games, so I think I might like this one! 1. Not having played the previous games is fine. 2. The tutorial is mostly text based now. Campaigns don't explicitly explain mechanics but do at least let you practice them. Playing against AI is pretty different than playing against people mind you. Playing with friendly goons and asking lots of questions is probably the quickest way to learn though. 3. Micro isn't a huge thing in wargame, it's more about positioning and thinking ahead. Probably the two biggest micro moments in a game is knowing to reverse a tank (preferably using the reverse hotkey) when it gets into a tricky situation, before it eats a million missiles, and turning off RADAR sams when a SEAD plane flies over and turning them back on afterwards (this one can be a bit tricky). 4. Reinforcements can take upwards of 5 minutes to drive to the frontline. There's plenty of time to stop for a moment and think, if you don't get caught up in the moment. 5. I've got the same specs except an i750 instead of the phenom, runs fine on medium-high settings. On the matter of Line of Sight, as tulip mentioned it's not the most intuitive thing for new players. I kind of like the way it is but it's probably the biggest thing to wrap your head around. So a few bits of advice on that. 1. Your cursor will turn blue when over cover. Cover will add concealment and possibly damage reductions. 1.1-lone small trees do not turn your cursor blue and are not cover. Small clusters of trees or long rows of them frequently are cover and will turn your units blue. Just make sure they're actually in it and have a flashing name. 2.Unit names will gently flash when they are hidden in cover. If a unit in cover stops flashing, it means the enemy can see them. 3. Get a few games in and then go watch the replay from your enemy's perspective. It really helps to see what you are and aren't exposing to the enemy. Shanakin fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Apr 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2014 06:16
|
|