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amanasleep posted:Long War Soldier List UI for Beta 7: Whoa.
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Apr 24, 2014 17:16
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That's loving cool. Anyway, I narrowed down the crash some more, and it seemed to trigger when trying to play soldier voice sounds, so I disabled them. Then it worked for a while. Here's a list of last lines from several crashes, found in the log files. code:code:code:
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Apr 24, 2014 17:27
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amanasleep posted:Long War Soldier List UI for Beta 7: Holy poo poo, I am ready to tank my current run just so I have an excuse to update to 7 when it comes out, because this looks hella slick.
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Apr 24, 2014 17:29
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 , that needs to be made into its own mod.
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Apr 24, 2014 19:03
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Handsome Ralph posted:And it's out now on the Google Play store for 9.99 USD. Can someone who has purchased this take a look at the files? I want to see if it's using regular upk files, or if it's all packaged up into a single monolithic blob.
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Apr 24, 2014 19:11
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VDay posted:They don't need to overreact and make every small UFO get taken down by a single interceptor. But the fact that even the weakest alien ships can potentially take out your entire air force is kind of a bummer because there isn't anything you can do other than choose to not attack. You can't make the fighters have better aim, you can't manually make them dodge, etc. The only options you have at the beginning of the game are Attack and Ignore. And if you're ignoring even the shittiest UFOs because you're afraid that they might cripple your entire air force, then what's even the point? Did Long War get rid of aircraft boosts? Might actually give you a reason to rush Sectoid autopsy for Aim Boosts. Three guaranteed hits!
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Apr 24, 2014 20:23
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No they're still in and are more useful than ever, but you still have to get around to researching them, then have the resources for them. I just mean that it's not like you have any manual control over your interceptor and can aim its shots or dodge, so any engagement with even the weakest UFO is this complete crapshoot where you might shoot it down in 2 seconds without taking a hit or it might kill 4 of your fighters. I know that randomizing things in order to make the game less predictable is one of the big goals of LW and I think it's generally fine when you're actually playing and have the freedom to make tactical decisions to cover for the RNG potentially screwing you over. But in the air game, you don't have any control, so the randomness of the RNG doesn't really add much other than to arbitrarily screw you over. You just click on the UFO and hope that RNGesus is on your side.
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Apr 24, 2014 20:33
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Vengarr posted:Did Long War get rid of aircraft boosts? Might actually give you a reason to rush Sectoid autopsy for Aim Boosts. Three guaranteed hits! Simply removing/significantly delaying the alien stat progression on UFOs would help quite a bit. If the aliens are researching pretty well (and in the early game, they're going to be since you won't be getting shoot-downs) their UFOs get aim and dodge bonuses, to the point that the Foundry upgrades don't actually set your fighters that much ahead of theirs. If you're a little slow getting the foundry upgrades, the avionics and countermeasures upgrades honestly just keep your fighters level with theirs, which makes it feel even worse. You need to rush both of them to pull ahead of the aliens and get a break, because otherwise, you're in the exact same spot you started. edit: Tracking modules + phoenix cannon are really the only way to start shooting down aliens with any regularity. edit: vvvv Yeah, beta 7 seems awesome. I wonder how they're going to balance the "monster" enemies with stuff like disabling shot. And if they're not robotic, how you couldn't lock them down pretty well with suppression/flashbang spam. Also carbines are going to rock. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 21:36
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beerinator posted:Whoa. The change-log for the next Beta version is enormous and mostly cool. It sounds like there's even more fleshed out weaponry, including lighter carbine-class guns that give movement perks at the cost of having -1 to base damage, and Exalt are getting much more interesting. Things should be a bit more varied all round, as enemy pod placement is now truly randomized, and more playable maps have been added to each mission type. There's also mention of 'monster' type enemies (minibosses?) that can appear on terror missions. Erk.
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Apr 24, 2014 21:45
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Long War (?) bug (?) Drones seem to sometimes... loving self-destruct. And this time it seems to have taken a seeker with it. A pack of two seekers plus a drone activated. Seekers cloak. Next enemy turn one seeker strangles a dude, then I see an explosion and "drone beam explodes into fragments!" My guys didn't shoot anything. And now there's a mysterious seeker corpse, friendly fire? edit to clarify, i've seen drones spontaneously die more than once, but this is the first time I've ever seen them take someone with them. Exploding terrain object maybe? It wasn't a car, but sometimes there are exploding boxes, right?  Seeker corpse can be seen there. Pretty sure the drone exploded right next to it and plummeted off the overpass. The seeker even still has its half-cloaked effect! Deuce fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 23:23
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Deuce posted:edit to clarify, i've seen drones spontaneously die more than once, but this is the first time I've ever seen them take someone with them. Exploding terrain object maybe? It wasn't a car, but sometimes there are exploding boxes, right? There's definitely exploding barrels. If you do think that it's a bug, see if you can't find a save for that mission and throw it at the Long War devs. They're trying to reverse-engineer a game never intended to be modded, so they need all the help they can get.
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Apr 25, 2014 00:00
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 As much as you like to recover corpses and fragments, this is just not an opportunity one can pass up.
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Apr 25, 2014 00:21
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This just showed up in Beagle's stream chat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0uArOnzPGU e: Alternate version. Dux Supremus fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Apr 25, 2014 |
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Apr 25, 2014 06:09
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Deuce posted:Long War (?) bug (?)
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Apr 25, 2014 08:51
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Dux Supremus posted:This just showed up in Beagle's stream chat: Holy poo poo this needs to be put into LW right now. dogstile fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Apr 25, 2014 |
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Apr 25, 2014 09:07
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Quad City DJs goes with everything. Just been flicking through the upcoming change log for LW Beta 7, and there's lots of interesting stuff in there. A whole new class of carbine-style weapons that do less damage but give +1 movement speed should be interesting for players who want a high mobility squad. Apparently it's mainly there to offset the nerf to the Engineer class, which gets a -1 movement penalty due to carrying all those extra explosives. These changes sound exciting, though: quote:- Aliens able to field monsters and other unique opponents on a few terror missions now. Exalt boss? Maybe they get a MEC trooper in retro-business gear? Also, new mission type: Ambushes! If the aliens are losing badly, they'll sometimes land as if they're doing a harvest/research mission, but it's just bait to lure you into a trap. Exciting. At this rate, the mod will need a whole new manual of its own, as they've added and changed just about everything. Looks like more mission types are a big priority for the LW devs. I like the idea of repurposing bomb missions into alien attacks on your interceptor bases, and get kinda tingly at the idea of the council assigning boss battles. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Apr 25, 2014 |
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Apr 25, 2014 12:03
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So I'm new to this game, and I get that it's supposed to be all x-com RNG bullshit, but it's really not fun to routinely miss shots that are 85% while getting sniped in full cover by sectoids across the map every single loving time. I follow guides, try to do things smart, and all that ends up happening is I miss nearly every single shot I take and get shot constantly on what should be a 5-10% shot from the aliens. I mean, I really do get that you're going to lose soldiers to bullshit from time to time but it seems that all this game ever has is bullshit. 65% chance on my shots should really be relabeled to 0% since I can't hit anything ever unless it's at 75% or higher, and even then it's a coin flip at best. I'm playing on normal. Is this really supposed to be fun to just get hit by every single shot that is taken against me while I miss almost every shot I take? I don't loving get it - I can do the same poo poo that's posted about as strategy in the early part of this thread, do the same poo poo that happens in various instructional LPs, and I still can't get through the first abduction mission without losing a soldier or three, mainly from being sniped from at least 2 full dashes away when behind full cover, and if I manage to get near them I miss every shot?. Where the gently caress do they get these recruits from that they shoot so catastrophically poorly? In case it's not clear, I'm incredibly frustrated at my perceived impotence at influencing the outcome of the battle because no matter what I do, I die. On the rare occasions that they actually miss a shot, it hits the car next to me and sets it on fire so I have to retreat back to find new full cover. Which would be fine and all, except full cover works the same as no cover it seems. Yes, the cover is pointed in the right direction. Here's a brief map: X is the alien, o is his half cover, O is my full cover, and Y is my dude Xo -over 2 full dashes in here- OY and I'm hit every single shot they take.  edit: Is there any potential way to see what the alien vision range is? I have no idea how to put anyone in overwatch that could potentially hit someone who isn't visible to them, since they can't hit the broad side of a barn from 3 feet away and have a very short distance that they can shoot compared to the sectoids, anyways. edit2: Seriously, help me not suck at this. It looks like such a fun game and I can deal with bullshit but I hate feeling like the game is trying to teach me a lesson, where that lesson is "don't bother to try to play well because we're going to completely ruin your game experience." I'm fine with losing soldiers if I do something dumb, and the occasional loss to RNG whatever, but not every single loving time. ssb fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Apr 26, 2014 |
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Apr 26, 2014 00:34
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Alien vision range is your vision range. If you can see them, they can see you. Range has almost no effect on accuracy. Being far away is only a penalty to shotguns. Thin Men have very high accuracy. Even high cover is a stopgap at best; the only way to not get shot by Thin Men is to not let them shoot at all. Nuke the fuckers.
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Apr 26, 2014 03:56
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shortspecialbus posted:oh god X-Com and Blood Bowl have a lot of similarities in teaching you how to play. You just have to plan for the worst case scenario in every action. Take your lowest risk/highest priority actions first, adjust as you need, and if you're ever given the chance do NOT play anywhere near fair. For MOST aliens you're describing in that scenario, the proper solution is to pull back around a corner, try to bait them into a round of overwatches (of which probably only 1 or 2 will hit) but it will soften them up a bit. Except, as Tendales says, if they're Thin Men. Then the solution is to scatter your guys out so none of them are within 2 or 3 squares of each other (avoid getting poisoned) and then get the best angles you can on them and end them. The other big secret to the first abduction missions is that the scientist chick is a DIRTY loving HIPPIE LIAR. Grenades for EVERYONE. All of the explosions. gently caress 'em. Once you get into Laser weaponry and have scopes on everyone things start looking better, but for a game that trains you to be cautious you have to just throw that instinct out sometimes and go scorched earth.
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Apr 26, 2014 04:37
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Grenades do not miss. Ignore Dr. Vahlen's bitching, and keep one trooper in reserve with grenades. That way when the first 3 losers in your squad all miss their 75% shots, you still have a guaranteed way to put the enemy down.
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Apr 26, 2014 04:49
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shortspecialbus posted:So I'm new to this game, and I get that it's supposed to be all x-com RNG bullshit, but it's really not fun to routinely miss shots that are 85% while getting sniped in full cover by sectoids across the map every single loving time. I follow guides, try to do things smart, and all that ends up happening is I miss nearly every single shot I take and get shot constantly on what should be a 5-10% shot from the aliens. Hmm. - Scouting around the edge of the map is never a bad idea. I've scouted the entire way around a medium saucer almost twice on a mission because I knew something was lurking around outside and I wanted to find it and kill it before I walked into the ship so I wasn't surprised later. - Learn the maps. If you're on a map you've never seen before, scout it! Slowly. - As was said above Aliens can see as far as you can. The only way they can shoot you without you being able to see them besides some random full cover hijinx at close range is if they're elevated. That watch your own vision when you move. Watch what comes into view at the edges, and what stays out. Get a sense for how far you have to move to put a piece of cover and whatever is behind it in the dark area where it can't see you. - Have a plan. To retreat. Overwatch is not a ninja ambush. Overwatch is Private Joe Deadman hiding behind a tree with his rifle trembling waiting to take a potshot at the first alien to run 3 feet past his face and then run like hell away hoping he finds a new tree soon. You win the overwatch trap game not by finding the perfect position, overwatching, and then hoping they die when they peek. You win it by being able to set up a killzone which you can then retreat from safely and set up a new killzone. Pay attention to your surroundings and have routes that each soldier can take to back away from things that will shoot them. Preferably high cover all the way. Sprinting to high cover > Retreating to low cover + Overwatching - Blow literally everything up. While, no, you don't want to use a rocket and four grenades on three guys and have 2 spawns left on the map, you should still chuck grenades liberally. Rockets can either be preventative medicine or your oh poo poo button. Grenade walls to open a new path to escape or attack. Grenade floaters because gently caress yeah Joe Deadman can chuck grenades that bounce once off the ground only to fly up and explode on contact. Grenade your own cover when you misclick. - Squaddie snipers are the painful price you pay for someone who can reliably off a dude every turn from across the map a few levels later. - Secure one continent at a time with satellites. If every continent has an open country then every continent is vulnerable to abduction panic. - Pour your meld into mechs, but save some for an assault who you will give C&P, rapid fire, and mimetic skin. Basically ignore gene tech until you see seekers and can get mimetic skin. - Heavies make great mechs. Snipers make better mechs. Mechs have the same stat growth as heavies, so a heavy can be converted at any rank, a sniper should be converted as high as possible so that you get full benefit of the sniper's aim growth. Support mechs can be decent if you know how to use them. Same as sniper, promote at as high a rank as you can manage. - You don't have to gene mod the hell out of everyone. But the 10 aim after miss is pretty valuable, especially on anyone who can shoot more than once in a turn. - What skills do you choose for dudes when they level up? TheSpiritFox fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Apr 26, 2014 |
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Apr 26, 2014 05:56
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TheSpiritFox posted:
My first playthrough with the tutorial I chose the ones recommended on the IGN wiki as a starting spot. I then proceeded to do some really dumb poo poo on purpose with the base and such to see the outcomes and learn how some things worked, so I scrapped that game. My second playthrough I turned off the tutorial and it's been nothing but rape. The first one was rough but nothing like this - I'm taking 4 damage every time I get shot from anywhere on the map when I'm in full cover. And as mentioned the only shots that miss set the car on fire. It's a hell of a thing, and I'm only on the first abduction. I haven't even *seen* a thin man on this playthrough, although they weren't all that horrible on my tutorial playthrough - I guess I got lucky on that one, I only lost one person to poison. Thanks everyone for the advice! The incredibly painful part is I'm doing my damndest to do most of that stuff, although there are a few things in there that seem minorly different. I think the RNG has just decided to gently caress me completely because I can't hit anything and I'm constantly getting hit when I really shouldn't be. It didn't do it this harsh the first game, and I enjoyed what I was starting to learn in that, which is why I'm sticking with this rather than uninstalling it, since I got it for free with Bioshock or something a while back.
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Apr 26, 2014 06:15
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shortspecialbus posted:My first playthrough with the tutorial I chose the ones recommended on the IGN wiki as a starting spot. I then proceeded to do some really dumb poo poo on purpose with the base and such to see the outcomes and learn how some things worked, so I scrapped that game. My second playthrough I turned off the tutorial and it's been nothing but rape. The first one was rough but nothing like this - I'm taking 4 damage every time I get shot from anywhere on the map when I'm in full cover. And as mentioned the only shots that miss set the car on fire. It's a hell of a thing, and I'm only on the first abduction. I haven't even *seen* a thin man on this playthrough, although they weren't all that horrible on my tutorial playthrough - I guess I got lucky on that one, I only lost one person to poison. Some of the skills are funny. Very few of them are actively bad. Take the sniper for instance. You immediately have to pick between snap shot and squadsight, followed by gunslinger vs drat good ground. Snap shot or gunslinger is infinitely more useful early on, but squadsight and drat good ground are what turns a sniper into a wrathful god just smiting the entire map later on. I've taken to getting my first sniper with one or the other (used to be snapshot, but with covert missions I've become fond of gunslinger), and then leveling up a 2nd one behind him. Once laser rifles and scopes become available the first guy becomes my spy. Then again, there's a pretty strong argument for snipers being the worst class to send undercover, so, there's that too. But I usually find doing anything but securing easy kills or running like hell for cover gets my spy wasted, so I don't sweat it. Being able to walk up behind someone and execute them with a 6 damage plasma pistol is pretty hilarious anyway.
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Apr 26, 2014 07:49
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Tendales posted:Alien vision range is your vision range. If you can see them, they can see you. Humans have one more square of vision. 
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Apr 26, 2014 08:06
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shortspecialbus posted:edit2: Seriously, help me not suck at this. It looks like such a fun game and I can deal with bullshit but I hate feeling like the game is trying to teach me a lesson, where that lesson is "don't bother to try to play well because we're going to completely ruin your game experience." I'm fine with losing soldiers if I do something dumb, and the occasional loss to RNG whatever, but not every single loving time. I can try and help. If you could record/write about a specific mission you had, the situations that happened and the decisions you made and the outcomes, I could give some direct feedback. 
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Apr 26, 2014 11:05
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amanasleep posted:Long War Soldier List UI for Beta 7: Firaxis, Give these guys, and only these guys, modding tools.
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Apr 26, 2014 13:41
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Beagle posted:I can try and help. If you could record/write about a specific mission you had, the situations that happened and the decisions you made and the outcomes, I could give some direct feedback. Maybe I'll fraps something. I'm generally catastrophically bad at tactical combat games, despite being really good at Civilization and the ilk.
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Apr 26, 2014 14:02
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You will lose to aliens in extended firefights. Look at your soldiers and their abilities/gear and divide them into three groups (early on your options are obviously very limited): - Suppressors & Survival: Stuff like Suppression, Disabling Shot, Smoke grenades, Flashbang grenades, Hunker Down. These will allow you to pin the aliens down or most likely survive the next few rounds unharmed. - Breakers: Grenades (frag, alien, gas), Rockets late game, Flush (in theory), Collatoral Damage. These change the situation for the enemies mostly by destroying their cover or forcing them out of it, setting the aliens up for the - - Killers: Shotgun Assaults, Snipers, Rockets early game, anyone in a flanking postion. These are the things you will most likely Kill Stuff with. So, you pop an alien pod. Move into cover and do what you can to control the aliens. Send out flankers and move the grenadiers into position. Destroy cover and kill what you can. Repeat until victory. Despite everything, there will be moments where you just get screwed over. You will fail to hit anything, every tiny move will spawn another pod of aliens, and the Thin Men will send your plasma colonels to the sick bay for weeks (if not just killing them outright) because they're Thin Men. 
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Apr 26, 2014 18:17
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shortspecialbus posted:So I'm new to this game, and I get that it's supposed to be all x-com RNG bullshit, but it's really not fun to routinely miss shots that are 85% while getting sniped in full cover by sectoids across the map every single loving time. I follow guides, try to do things smart, and all that ends up happening is I miss nearly every single shot I take and get shot constantly on what should be a 5-10% shot from the aliens. Your perception of the RNG is skewed by the gross confirmation bias of your primitive monkey brain. Seriously, you focus on the misses from your guys and hits from theirs, so that's what you remember. In reality, you are hitting 65% of your 65 % shots. If you are playing normal difficulty, it's actually better than that because the game cheats for you. Alien plasma weapons have no range penalty, same as your rifles, so their accuracy is the same regardless of distance. You both get bonuses at short ranges. (Sniper rifle is the exception with an inverted range penalty, and shotguns have a steeper slope) Early on, your troops do kinda suck at their jobs. A huge help is grenades. Grenades grenades grenades. They auto kill sectoids. So always leave a backup plan in case shots miss. If you use grenades wisely, you can often set up a situation in which the aliens never actually get to shoot at you. Ignore Vahlen's bitching. Your troops are more important than weapon fragments. For tougher enemies, a grenade can injure them as well as destroying their cover, which makes the follow-up kill shot far more likely to hit. Use more grenades is the answer. Also, if you have only a bad shot, don't take it. Hunker down instead. In high cover, this makes you basically invulnerable. Just keep in mind that if you didn't see the alien try to take the shot, they may be in over watch now.
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Apr 26, 2014 19:02
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To be fair though the difficulty curve of this game is hosed up. Thin Men in the early game are magnitudes harder in difficulty than anything you have to face later on. The issue is the development of your squad. The enemy really doesn't grow all that much in their damage dealing capabilities beyond the thin men or those god forsaken chrysalids. Your troops over time however will become skilled, faster, much more capable of taking hits, more accurate, deal more damage, etc. You go from having a squad of 4 idiots who can't hit the broad side of a barn to a team of 6 death troopers who could probably take out the map single handedly. Once I develop Titan Armor or Plasma weapons losing troops just doesn't happen anymore.
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Apr 26, 2014 19:34
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Deuce posted:Your perception of the RNG is skewed by the gross confirmation bias of your primitive monkey brain. Seriously, you focus on the misses from your guys and hits from theirs, so that's what you remember. In reality, you are hitting 65% of your 65 % shots. If you are playing normal difficulty, it's actually better than that because the game cheats for you. I've always been afraid to use grenades so I don't waste them in case I need them later. I always suffer the same thing in RPGs, I don't think I'd ever use an elixir in the early FF games because WHAT IF I NEED IT LATER so I'd have about 300 of them by the end of the game. I need to get over that. And I'm sure you're right about my primitive monkey brain confirmation bias - I was getting so exceedingly frustrated that it made them even more glaring. Random question - for comfort, I've been playing this with a controller. I don't believe I'm gimping myself in any way by doing this, but am I? Should I use mouse/keyboard?
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Apr 26, 2014 19:38
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shortspecialbus posted:Random question - for comfort, I've been playing this with a controller. I don't believe I'm gimping myself in any way by doing this, but am I? Should I use mouse/keyboard?
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Apr 26, 2014 19:40
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There's no disadvantage at all to playing the regular game with a gamepad. Long War makes some UI tweaks that work best with keyboard/mouse, though.
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Apr 26, 2014 19:44
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shortspecialbus posted:I've always been afraid to use grenades so I don't waste them in case I need them later. I always suffer the same thing in RPGs, I don't think I'd ever use an elixir in the early FF games because WHAT IF I NEED IT LATER so I'd have about 300 of them by the end of the game. I need to get over that. You can't ever run out of grenades, you'll just get more for the next mission, so you might as well use them all up, it's not like you're going to run out for next time. Especially on the earlier missions where it's a fixed number of sectoids per mission (I think 4 on easy/normal, 6 on classic, 8 on impossible), you'll know exactly how many aliens are left on the map based on how many you've already killed, so you'll know how many more grenades you'll need to save at most. So for example the very first mission if you're playing on normal, you've got 4 guys with grenades, and there are only 4 aliens on the map, there's no reason not to grenade them all.
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Apr 26, 2014 19:45
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shortspecialbus posted:I've always been afraid to use grenades so I don't waste them in case I need them later. I always suffer the same thing in RPGs, I don't think I'd ever use an elixir in the early FF games because WHAT IF I NEED IT LATER so I'd have about 300 of them by the end of the game. I need to get over that. And I'm sure you're right about my primitive monkey brain confirmation bias - I was getting so exceedingly frustrated that it made them even more glaring. Grenades behave in an interesting way in terms of inventory and uses. Frag grenades have the infinite symbol which simply means you can give an infinite amount of soldiers frag grenades. Let's say you make ONE flashbang grenade in the workshop - this means you can equip one soldier with a flashbang. BUT! That soldier can use the flashbang once per mission every mission from then on. Twice if they get the appropriate perks when levelling up (Grenadier or Deep Pockets). Likewise if you get an alien grenade by stunning a muton, if you give it to a soldier he can use it once/twice in every single mission from then on but you can only equip ONE soldier with it. If you use the alien grenade foundry project then the alien grenades become infinite, which doesn't change how they work for a single soldier, but instead allows all your soldiers to be equipped with them.
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Apr 26, 2014 19:56
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I had figured they were infinite between missions, but the one per mission is what I meant. Is there a list anywhere of how many enemies are on each map? That would help me out a lot, even if it is a bit "gamey" in a sense.
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Apr 26, 2014 20:26
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shortspecialbus posted:I had figured they were infinite between missions, but the one per mission is what I meant. Is there a list anywhere of how many enemies are on each map? That would help me out a lot, even if it is a bit "gamey" in a sense. Nope, enemy spawns are random, with various variables affected by difficulty setting. You're never going to know what's out there or how many of them there are.
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Apr 26, 2014 20:47
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If by not throwing the grenade, you're letting an alien get a free shot on you, you should throw the grenade. Dead men can't keep the grenades for later.
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Apr 26, 2014 20:53
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Is there any place I can see the long war promotion bonuses? Also, the enemy within version appears to be glitched: I can't select frag grenades in the loadout menu.
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Apr 26, 2014 21:34
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Dominic White posted:Nope, enemy spawns are random, with various variables affected by difficulty setting. You're never going to know what's out there or how many of them there are. You can usually guess though. Small UFOs and easy abduction missions on normal mode will probably only bring 4-6 guys. As the UFOs and abductions difficulties get higher you can figure maybe in the range of 10 enemies.
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Apr 26, 2014 21:36
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