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Psychlone posted:Time for my two cents: I give you: Legion Lost. Not the awesome reboot Legion 12 issue series (which you should seriously go read right now), but the New 52 Legion Lost. I was thinking of their appearance in superboy 9. It was a boring story and they made it worse. Favorabilis Solitud fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Apr 14, 2014 |
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Apr 14, 2014 02:53
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Psychlone posted:What's more, in the main Legion title, which was also cancelled, the main Legion is the Earth-2 Legion, so what that means for the seven lost Legionnaires is very confusing. Did they hope dimensions as well as travelling through time? Were they even part of the Earth-2 Legion? Did they even exist in the New 52 universe? Does it matter? As I understand it, that was more of an asspull once somebody realized that, oh yeah, if we're gonna use Legion characters ever again, we probably shouldn't have left them completely un-rebooted and in their own little bubble where its stated they can't interact with the past! WHOOPS! So in order, for example, for Grant Morrison to have Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl and Cosmic Boy fight guys to save Superman in Action Comics, they can't be stuck in the 31st century by some imaginary barrier. So then they just decided "Um yeah, this was all... another Earth, that's a way out, right?" and didn't bother explaining the Legion Lost guys because, like you said, who the gently caress cared? I... think there's been some other legionnaires that've shown up in other titles as well, but would it blow your mind if I told you that any wiki related to the Legion is a goddamned mess and I couldn't find poo poo?
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Apr 14, 2014 03:13
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TwoPair posted:
If a wiki involving the Legion makes sense then they are doing something wrong.
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Apr 14, 2014 03:16
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TwoPair posted:As I understand it, that was more of an asspull once somebody realized that, oh yeah, if we're gonna use Legion characters ever again, we probably shouldn't have left them completely un-rebooted and in their own little bubble where its stated they can't interact with the past! WHOOPS! So in order, for example, for Grant Morrison to have Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl and Cosmic Boy fight guys to save Superman in Action Comics, they can't be stuck in the 31st century by some imaginary barrier. So then they just decided "Um yeah, this was all... another Earth, that's a way out, right?" and didn't bother explaining the Legion Lost guys because, like you said, who the gently caress cared? Yeah, there was the Morrison Legion in those issues of Action. That one also had the snake version of Projectra, insinuating it was the reboot Legion, but who knows. I heard there's a version in the latest issues of Superboy too. Legion history is so convoluted...
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Apr 14, 2014 04:52
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Really with the New 52 it's like they took Legion History and applied it to the entire line.
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Apr 15, 2014 03:34
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Here's something I've just come across. Kind of a follow-up to Onmi's Ken Penders posts from a few pages back: First, a preview for his Original Character Chronicles series. And second: Ken Penders posted:Lara-Su is not an echidna nor an animal, but an alien. She is a member of the Echyd'nya species.
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Apr 21, 2014 23:20
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Metal Loaf posted:Here's something I've just come across. Kind of a follow-up to Onmi's Ken Penders posts from a few pages back: Every thing I find out about that guy makes him seem battier. I like this sweet burn somebody dropped on him in his own forum: quote:This looks legitimate. You know its a Ken Penders script because it contains pretty much nothing but people standing around and talking about stuff instead of things actually happening.
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Apr 22, 2014 00:13
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I still cannot get over that name. Lara-Su? How does someone with access to the internet pick that as a name for what's basically a fanfic Original Character Do Not Steal and try to play the concept straight?
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Apr 22, 2014 03:41
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Gaz-L posted:I still cannot get over that name. Lara-Su? How does someone with access to the internet pick that as a name for what's basically a fanfic Original Character Do Not Steal and try to play the concept straight?
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Apr 24, 2014 14:49
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Her pelvis looks like a shoe 
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Apr 24, 2014 15:43
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Be glad she's wearing pants. There's a tumblr dedicated to the weird and bad art of the Archie Sonic comics. http://amomentofarchiesonic.tumblr.com/
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Apr 25, 2014 05:23
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Speaking of weird and bad art, Penders just tweeted some more Lara-Su Chronicles stuff. It's... uh...  
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Apr 25, 2014 07:19
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Circutron posted:Speaking of weird and bad art, Penders just tweeted some more Lara-Su Chronicles stuff. This dude needs an intervention.
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Apr 25, 2014 07:27
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Circutron posted:Speaking of weird and bad art, Penders just tweeted some more Lara-Su Chronicles stuff. There exist sentient beings on this planet at this very moment who find this acceptable.
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Apr 25, 2014 07:33
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Friends don't let friends use Poser.
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Apr 25, 2014 07:47
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Is DIVA-ISNOUS a word that I would have to be fluent in this horrible ~canon~ to understand, or did he have a partially crippling aneurysm while trying to make an adjective out of the word "diva", or— I'll take my answer off the air. (Fake edit: the word "diva", when used in what is obviously intended to be a positive and flattering light, is always a huge red flag.)
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Apr 25, 2014 12:40
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Pastry of the Year posted:Is DIVA-ISNOUS a word that I would have to be fluent in this horrible ~canon~ to understand, or did he have a partially crippling aneurysm while trying to make an adjective out of the word "diva", or— It's probably an Echyd'nya word. Echyd'nya. Seriously.
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Apr 25, 2014 13:37
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KenPender's Twitter posted:Echyd'nya (pronounced eh-kid-Nyah) with real emphasis on the last syllable as if a Klingon were speaking. (Just trying to keep it simple.) Alien names with apostrophes in the middle, the true mark of a master sci-fi writer.
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Apr 25, 2014 13:50
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I took it as an attempt of a portmanteau of "diva" and "deviousness" or something. Although it's not spelled correctly if that's the case. Anyway, I'm not sure this really belongs in here since it's not a terrible run per se, it's just a terrible everything. If we were counting terrible everythings, this would be the biggest thread on SA. irlZaphod fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Apr 25, 2014 |
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Apr 25, 2014 14:48
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I never knew there was a strong following to like Sonic comics (longest running video game comic) and like GI JOE comics until these threads. I guess I always looked at these as vehicles to sell toys/games first then focus on a good story/art second. I get comics in general are always tied into pushing something. Is there a reason to ever read these or is this mainly for people who played GI Joe or played/plays sonic games as a kid?
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Apr 25, 2014 21:33
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if we start throwing stones in terms of "this property is garbage and only if you were raised on it can you appreciate it" we're not going to have any comic books left at all.
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Apr 25, 2014 21:35
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I admit I don't really have much of an attachment to the American Sonic comic and I don't regularly play Sonic games beyond the Mega Drive ones, but the British comic was my single favourite comic growing up, so I guess I'm sort of nostalgic for bits and pieces of it. 
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Apr 25, 2014 21:45
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Favorabilis Solitud posted:Is there a reason to ever read these or is this mainly for people who played GI Joe or played/plays sonic games as a kid? I can't say anything about Sonic, but I made a thread here specifically to answer that question about Marvel's G.I. Joe comic. e: Long story short, the comic was great for several years, then the 90's happened, the head writer lost interest, and everything started revolving around ninjas. Nipponophile fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Apr 25, 2014 |
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Apr 25, 2014 21:51
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Favorabilis Solitud posted:I never knew there was a strong following to like Sonic comics (longest running video game comic) and like GI JOE comics until these threads. I guess I always looked at these as vehicles to sell toys/games first then focus on a good story/art second. I get comics in general are always tied into pushing something. In the case of Sonic, probably not. I got roped into reading them after the Sonic comics crossed over with Mega Man (another old video game comic, I see a trend forming) but while they're quite enjoyable, they're very much written with young kids in mind as the target demographic, so unless you either are in that demographic or are a slave to your own sense of nostalgia, like I said, probably not for you. At least they're not terrible anymore like the Penders examples Onmi posted earlier.
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Apr 25, 2014 22:22
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Favorabilis Solitud posted:Is there a reason to ever read these or is this mainly for people who played GI Joe or played/plays sonic games as a kid? I think something that makes Archie Sonic unique is its freedom fighter setup. In every other mainstream, long-running series I can think of, the heroes are either a dominant figure of authority (Batman, Justice League, Avengers), or bystanders that operate in and around law (Spider-man, Hawkeye), and without having any kind of recurring police force, it's sort of rare to see the biggest authority be the villain. Now, a story about a revolution probably could have been wrapped up neatly in about 30 issues, but I think it's alright to read Sonic in short bursts and just forget about whatever happened before the beginning of each major arc. Also, recently Archie Sonic has gotten a character overhaul to appear more like recent Sega games, as well as having better artists and colorists than from anything of the last 15 years.
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Apr 25, 2014 22:33
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Favorabilis Solitud posted:I never knew there was a strong following to like Sonic comics (longest running video game comic) and like GI JOE comics until these threads. I guess I always looked at these as vehicles to sell toys/games first then focus on a good story/art second. I get comics in general are always tied into pushing something. I don't know if GI Joe comics have aged well, but they had one writer for pretty much the entire 80's run (Larry Hama), and were generally well-regarded as they were allowed to be their own thing, and were a bit more espionage-action focused than the cartoon.
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Apr 25, 2014 22:42
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Favorabilis Solitud posted:I never knew there was a strong following to like Sonic comics (longest running video game comic) and like GI JOE comics until these threads. I guess I always looked at these as vehicles to sell toys/games first then focus on a good story/art second. I get comics in general are always tied into pushing something.
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Apr 25, 2014 23:40
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laz0rbeak posted:I don't know if GI Joe comics have aged well, but they had one writer for pretty much the entire 80's run (Larry Hama), and were generally well-regarded as they were allowed to be their own thing, and were a bit more espionage-action focused than the cartoon. It helped that Larry Hama was a Vietnam veteran and when he threw military slang or 'culture' into the book it rang absolutely true - but yeah, the fact that he was allowed to tell his own stories lifted the book head and shoulders above the usual standard for toy license books. It was really, really good.
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Apr 26, 2014 01:13
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:It helped that Larry Hama was a Vietnam veteran and when he threw military slang or 'culture' into the book it rang absolutely true - but yeah, the fact that he was allowed to tell his own stories lifted the book head and shoulders above the usual standard for toy license books. I completely agree with both you and Nipponophile, though I'm not sure if Hama lost his enthusiasm. They definitely stopped giving him good art— replacing it with horrible art— and, yes, ninjas became way too central to everything. drat you, '90s! The series started to become almost completely unreadable in about 1991.
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Apr 26, 2014 02:29
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Right at the start of his Marvel career, Todd McFarlane was going to be assigned to GI Joe, but Hama refused because he thought McFarlane's storytelling was very weak. McFarlane was put on Hulk instead; Peter David also thought his storytelling was very weak, but decided to make the best of it becuase he didn't think was getting another shot at a regular writing gig anytime soon.
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Apr 26, 2014 03:34
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Nipponophile posted:I can't say anything about Sonic, but I made a thread here specifically to answer that question about Marvel's G.I. Joe comic. Nice thanks. Ya I really didn't know and I know how ridiculous it sounds to say that but I'm glad you guys knew what I meant. Ya that is crazy, a vet intertwining his experiences/stories into it. Pretty much have to check it out now.
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Apr 26, 2014 04:25
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Metal Loaf posted:Right at the start of his Marvel career, Todd McFarlane was going to be assigned to GI Joe, but Hama refused because he thought McFarlane's storytelling was very weak. McFarlane was put on Hulk instead; Peter David also thought his storytelling was very weak, but decided to make the best of it becuase he didn't think was getting another shot at a regular writing gig anytime soon. That's simplifying things a bit. McFarlane actually did two issues of G.I. Joe as a freelancer, but his second issue was rejected and Marvel pulled in a replacement to completely redraw the issue. Ironically, his unpublished issue was released as a "Special" some two years after the Joe comic had been cancelled, because McFarlane had since become a hot commodity in the comics world. In fairness, McFarlane's treatment really didn't fit with the style that had been established in the Joe comics. They had been shooting for a realistic, hard-edged style, and McFarlane's submission just didn't fit that motif.
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Apr 26, 2014 06:23
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Right, okay. I was going off Peter David's foreword for his first Hulk Visionaries trade and I get the impression he didn't and doesn't like McFarlane very much, so I guess maybe it's a bit of a skewed account.
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Apr 26, 2014 11:51
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Metal Loaf posted:Right, okay. I was going off Peter David's foreword for his first Hulk Visionaries trade and I get the impression he didn't and doesn't like McFarlane very much, so I guess maybe it's a bit of a skewed account. There's probably a little of it, but it's hard to be objective about one of the self-centered shits that really help nuke the industry back in the 90s.
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Apr 26, 2014 13:48
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Whatever the case is, Todd drew a drat good Hulk.
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Apr 26, 2014 16:29
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Metal Loaf posted:Right at the start of his Marvel career, Todd McFarlane was going to be assigned to GI Joe, but Hama refused because he thought McFarlane's storytelling was very weak. McFarlane was put on Hulk instead; Peter David also thought his storytelling was very weak, but decided to make the best of it becuase he didn't think was getting another shot at a regular writing gig anytime soon. They're right. McFarlane is terrible at storytelling with art. He drew pages that were better suited as pinups which is what the teens buying comics wanted which is a large part of why the early 90's sucked so hard in comics.
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Apr 27, 2014 01:55
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rkajdi posted:There's probably a little of it, but it's hard to be objective about one of the self-centered shits that really help nuke the industry back in the 90s. Wait, huh? I was under the impression that McFarlane's contribution to the 90s comics industry was basically just starting Image, making Spawn, and loving off to go make toys when those two things made him crazy rich.
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Apr 27, 2014 10:14
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SALT CURES HAM posted:Wait, huh? I was under the impression that McFarlane's contribution to the 90s comics industry was basically just starting Image, making Spawn, and loving off to go make toys when those two things made him crazy rich.
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Apr 27, 2014 11:07
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SALT CURES HAM posted:Wait, huh? I was under the impression that McFarlane's contribution to the 90s comics industry was basically just starting Image, making Spawn, and loving off to go make toys when those two things made him crazy rich. Image was a lot of the early 90s issues IMO. They were a huge part of the inflation of the collector bubble, which is what nearly killed the industry in the 90s.
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Apr 27, 2014 12:10
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In a nutshell: 1) Todd McFarlane and the future Image crew develop fan followings as 'hot' artists even if (because?) they were style over substance. 2) A proto-Internet debate burns up Comic Buyers Guide, Compuserve, Usenet, convention panels after "Name Withheld" (Erik Larsen) writes a letter bemoaning how artists are shafted and disrespected in favor of writers, even though artists are way more important and basically run the show. 3) Perhaps coincidentally, Marvel starts deciding to privilege artists over writers, giving McFarlane (then Larsen) a solo Spider-Man book after neither man got along with David Michelinie, letting Liefeld take over New Mutants/X-Force after not working well with Louise Simonson, and apparently siding with Jim Lee over Chris Claremont for the last two years or so of X-Men stories before Claremont quit and Lee took over writing officially. 4) So now Marvel has a system that privileges artists over writers, and within a year of that their top artists quit anyway and spin off into Image Comics. Marvel's response to this is to privilege marketing ('events' + gimmick covers) over any creators, period. So this is where you had the "1990s" as people recognize it, with constant crossovers, holofoil covers, COLLECTOR'S ITEM CLASSIC FIRST ISSUES, all that jazz. To further put blame on Image/McFarlane though... 5) As wacky and unsustainable as this model is, Image further strains the market by having terrible scheduling issues, contributing to the die-off to the ecology of comic shops that was already untenable outside of the speculator's bubble. Image had numerous books selling at half a million to a million copies, and they'd put off publishing them until the last possible second before they'd become returnable, even if that means the issue shipped only has 12-14 pages of the solicited story/creative team and then the back of the book is filled with second-rate back-ups or pin-ups. Some of the most blatantly mishandled titles (Deathmate, Darker Image) weren't directly handled by McFarlane, but his flagship title Spawn pulled a classic shifty after getting like six issues behind where they shipped Spawn #21 right before it became returnable, but before Spawn 19-20 came out (since those would have already been returnable because they were so late). Spawn #21 appeared to be exactly what was planned for Spawn #19, but admitting that they'd changed the contents of the book might make it returnable, so they insisted that this was what Spawn #21 was supposed to be all along. They later resolicited Spawn 19-20 as a SPECIAL SUPER SECRET STORY WE JUST HAD TO REARRANGE THINGS FOR. As it turned out, it was a story written by Spawn's letterer and drawn as a try-out by Greg Capullo, where Spawn meets Houdini or something, and it came out like eight months later. 6) The other thing McFarlane and co. did to shape the comics industry around this time was to expand and contract Image quickly and capriciously. After about a year of existing they started offering what is now the classic Image clearinghouse/packaging model to other creators. This drew in people like Alan Moore, Steve Bissette, Mike Grell, Jerry Ordway, Keith Giffen, Steve Gerber, etc. Then after less than a year of doing these "Wave Two" books Image decided they were overextended snd abruptly cancelled all of them, saying they had more important things to worry about like getting THEIR books out on time. Which I suppose is accurate, but it threw a lot of people into chaos and further delayed Image (which has tried repeatedly, only seeming to *really* succeed in the past 3-5 years) to develop into what they claimed to be all along. Anyway yeah and then at some point he wandered off to focus on dolls and balls.
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