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I think as a whole all three of the big slasher franchises are pretty weak with only a few truly great movies between them. But they are all awesome because they seem to be in a competition for how stupid they can get.
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Apr 27, 2014 22:28
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Cole posted:I think as a whole all three of the big slasher franchises are pretty weak with only a few truly great movies between them. Dingdingding. If we're going "truly great" we've pretty much got the original entries for Halloween, A Nightmare On Elm Street, Texas Chainsaw Massacre* and that's about it. Personally, I'd round out that list with Dream Warriors and New Nightmare but I know not everyone feels that way. *I think of the slasher franchises as a Big Four rather than a Big Three. If Halloween is Megadeth, Friday the 13th is Metallica, and Nightmare on Elm Street is Slayer, then Texas Chainsaw Massacre is Anthrax.
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Apr 27, 2014 22:53
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I never really think of Texas Chainsaw Massacre as a franchise in the same way as Michael, Freddy, and Jason. 2 is just really its own thing, and 3 and 4 are films that nobody should ever watch. For me, it was honestly a big five as a kid: Pinhead, Freddy, Jason, Michael, and Chucky. TCM was this thing I knew about, but I never saw until I was older. I view it in the same way I view Psycho. It's an important film for influencing slashers, but I don't necessarily lump it with the latter day slashers of the late 70s on.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:12
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Texas Chainsaw Massacre is a better horror movie than every Friday The 13th, Halloween, Hellraiser, Nightmare on Elmstreet and Child's Play movie put together. And I love Halloween (absurdly solid and genre defining) and A Nightmare On Elm Street (wonderfully imaginative).
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Apr 27, 2014 23:18
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Of all the Halloween movies, I'm most irritated that Resurrection even exists. Not only is it a dumb dumb dumb movie on its own, it retcons away what was the best possible ending for the series in H20. I like that ending so much as a wrap to the whole thing.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:19
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Yeah TCM is definitely a proto-slasher but not a slasher proper. It's the outlier of the bunch, but having come before any of the rest and just generally having been wildly influential (was Leatherface the first cinematic masked killer of teenagers? I think he might've been), it gets grandfathered in. The Hellraiser films were way off in their own little world. And the Child's Play films were so late in the game and so... specific, I guess that they don't really feel of a piece with the rest, but there's an argument to be made there.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:19
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SALT CURES HAM posted:Honestly, I don't really feel that way about it. I'm hesitant to call it a progression in the series, because it takes kind of a hard left turn from 4 instead of going in the same direction (5 is a hosed up movie whereas 4 was pretty much a horror comedy), but "going through the motions" is just about the last way I'd describe it. It's flawed because it doesn't execute a lot of its ideas all that well, not because it doesn't have any new ones. Yeah, I re-watched 5 after this discussion kicked up, and it really is a movie that's about something, much like 2. If we take it that;
I'm not sure what would have made 5 better, but it's just so languid and padded, and it really shows that it was a rush job. I think you needed more scenes of people just escaping Freddy to ramp up the suspense.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:19
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Dissapointed Owl posted:Texas Chainsaw Massacre is a better horror movie than every Friday The 13th, Halloween, Hellraiser, Nightmare on Elmstreet and Child's Play movie put together. Hmmm... I want to disagree with this, because Halloween, A Nightmare on Elm Street and Hellraiser are all monumentally impressive movies, but The Texas Chainsaw Massacre is The Texas loving Chainsaw Massacre.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:21
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Hmmm... I want to disagree with this, because Halloween, A Nightmare on Elm Street and Hellraiser are all monumentally impressive movies, but The Texas Chainsaw Massacre is The Texas loving Chainsaw Massacre. I feel exactly the same way. I love those films. But the Texas C.M. Goddamn.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:26
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ruddiger posted:If we're not including the first entries, I think the best ones are Nightmare 3, Friday VI, and Halloween 3. Nothing after the first Texas Chainsaw Massacre is worth watching, though
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Apr 27, 2014 23:29
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I mean if we're taking the goal of a horror movie as "to be scary," then there's no way TCM isn't the winner. Halloween and ANOES are very scary in their own right, and Hellraiser is, if not so much scary in the way we typically define it, at least very disturbing, but The Texas Chainsaw Massacre is legitimately terrifying in a way that hasn't been dulled at all in 40 years.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:29
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It's still genuinely disturbing and oozes fear. This may be blasphemy, but Halloween hasn't aged well in my opinion. It's absolutely rightfully a classic and has some scary moments, but I don't think it's as effective to this day as TCM (and the first NOES in my view).
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Apr 27, 2014 23:33
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TCM is timelessly visceral in a way that Halloween simply isn't, in my eyes.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:35
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Halloween's template was easier to follow. It's elegant, sparse, and very effective. Texas Chainsaw is too genuine to ever lose any power - it's like a window into a drugged-out film crew actually losing their goddamn minds in 120 degree desert hell.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:38
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I just don't get the love for Hellraiser at all. I don't think it belongs in the line up with the rest of those movies.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:38
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It hurts me to pit TCM and Halloween against eachother. Texas Chainsaw Massacre is maybe the most viscerally effective horror movie of all time, but Halloween also feels just pretty much empirically perfect. It's just a hair's breadth less immediate than TCM, but as a dark, terrifying modern fairy tale it's brilliant.BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:I just don't get the love for Hellraiser at all. I don't think it belongs in the line up with the rest of those movies. A lot of people probably agree with you, but I have insane amounts of love for the original Hellraiser. I think it's a truly outstanding horror film.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:39
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:Nothing after the first Texas Chainsaw Massacre is worth watching, though 2 word's for ya buddy.... CHOP TOP TCM 2 is awesome.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:45
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:Nothing after the first Texas Chainsaw Massacre is worth watching, though
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Apr 27, 2014 23:47
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Gaz2k21 posted:2 word's for ya buddy.... I really like the beginning of TCM2, the opening scene is great and the radio station scene is scary as gently caress. But everything that happens once they get in the caves is ugly and dull, and that's a very sizeable portion of the movie.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:49
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penismightier posted:Halloween's template was easier to follow. It's elegant, sparse, and very effective. Texas Chainsaw is too genuine to ever lose any power - it's like a window into a drugged-out film crew actually losing their goddamn minds in 120 degree desert hell. Even Hooper didn't know how to follow TCM, and I love TCM2.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:54
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All this talk of franchises and no mention of Cold Prey? Come on, guys ... them's some solid slasher flicks.
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Apr 28, 2014 00:24
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penismightier posted:Halloween's template was easier to follow. It's elegant, sparse, and very effective. Texas Chainsaw is too genuine to ever lose any power - it's like a window into a drugged-out film crew actually losing their goddamn minds in 120 degree desert hell. This. I can't think of another horror film that is as raw as TCM. It just feels gross. And the final shot of Leatherface twirling his chainsaw in the road is one of those iconic moments. Don't care for any of the TCM sequels/remakes/prequels/whatever, though.
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Apr 28, 2014 00:25
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Keanu Grieves posted:All this talk of franchises and no mention of Cold Prey? Come on, guys ... them's some solid slasher flicks. Ehhhh. The first one had some good ideas, but when the best thing you can say is "it doesn't check every cliche box on the list", is it really worth that much praise?
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Apr 28, 2014 00:54
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Oliver Reed posted:You know, the one NoES movie that keeps getting slammed is Freddy's Dead. Hey, I already did a few pages ago! Basically, I thought the movie clearly had a different concept than the rest of the series - a sort of "horror Looney Tunes" - and on an 'executing your vision' level I think Freddy's Dead deserves some credit. It just feels disrespectful to the audience to shove Freddy Krueger into this role when he already had a defined MO: and on his grand finale, no less! The concept would have been received better in a new IP; a killer cartoon character (imagine a psychotic Bugs Bunny) that sucks you into his cartoon world so he can kill you in macabre and amusing (to him) ways. He could be unsettling in the same way the Joker is unsettling: treating violence and death as though they are hilarious. SALT CURES HAM posted:Honestly, I don't really feel that way about it. I'm hesitant to call it a progression in the series, because it takes kind of a hard left turn from 4 instead of going in the same direction (5 is a hosed up movie whereas 4 was pretty much a horror comedy), but "going through the motions" is just about the last way I'd describe it. It's flawed because it doesn't execute a lot of its ideas all that well, not because it doesn't have any new ones. Hmmm, well I obviously can't argue against how the movie came off for you, but for the most part ANOES 5 feels to me like a more serious ANOES 4 only with lamer scary/suspense/action sequences. It's true that it's "about something" as another poster declared, but hey, so was Star Trek Insurrection. DeathChicken posted:Of all the Halloween movies, I'm most irritated that Resurrection even exists. Not only is it a dumb dumb dumb movie on its own, it retcons away what was the best possible ending for the series in H20. I like that ending so much as a wrap to the whole thing. Just do like me and pretend that Halloween Resurrection is a hypothetical alternate universe. For me, Michael Myers died at the end of H2O. The series itself has continually retconned itself and played fast and loose with its own continuity, so why can't I?
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Apr 28, 2014 01:18
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Keanu Grieves posted:All this talk of franchises and no mention of Cold Prey? Come on, guys ... them's some solid slasher flicks. I'm a pretty giant horror movie fan and I've never even heard of this.
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Apr 28, 2014 01:21
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:It hurts me to pit TCM and Halloween against eachother. Texas Chainsaw Massacre is maybe the most viscerally effective horror movie of all time, but Halloween also feels just pretty much empirically perfect. It's just a hair's breadth less immediate than TCM, but as a dark, terrifying modern fairy tale it's brilliant. I agree, it's beautifully impeccable and just loving magnificent filmmaking.
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Apr 28, 2014 01:23
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Let's not forget to show love for Black Christmas. I mean sure if we wanna connect the dots we can go back to Peeping Tom and Psycho, etc. but Black Christmas is close enough to the others to warrant a mention.
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Apr 28, 2014 01:27
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lizardman posted:Basically, I thought the movie clearly had a different concept than the rest of the series - a sort of "horror Looney Tunes" - and on an 'executing your vision' level I think Freddy's Dead deserves some credit. It just feels disrespectful to the audience to shove Freddy Krueger into this role when he already had a defined MO: and on his grand finale, no less!... a killer cartoon character (imagine a psychotic Bugs Bunny) that sucks you into his cartoon world so he can kill you in macabre and amusing (to him) ways. He could be unsettling in the same way the Joker is unsettling: treating violence and death as though they are hilarious.
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Apr 28, 2014 01:28
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DeathChicken posted:Speaking of which, Jacob's Ladder is still such a freakyass movie. It has these quick moments to make you wonder if you really just saw or heard that. Sitting in the dark watching alone at night, that is some scary stuff. I just watched it last night having not seen it in years and I just can't agree. I wish it was creepier and more interesting as I nearly gave up on it part way through.
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Apr 28, 2014 02:15
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Gromit posted:I just watched it last night having not seen it in years and I just can't agree. I wish it was creepier and more interesting as I nearly gave up on it part way through. Yeah, it was definitely a product of its age and doesn't hold up well. A few freaky "is this happening?" scenes really doesn't compare when we get things like Fight Club, The Usual Suspects and Seven in the next few years, to say nothing of demonic thrillers like The Ninth Gate and In The Mouth of Madness just a few years later.
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Apr 28, 2014 02:20
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Oliver Reed posted:Let's not forget to show love for Black Christmas. I mean sure if we wanna connect the dots we can go back to Peeping Tom and Psycho, etc. but Black Christmas is close enough to the others to warrant a mention. I actually kinda prefer it to Halloween, if I'm being honest. It's a tight contest, and the weak ending nearly pushes it the other way, but drat if Black Christmas doesn't still unsettle me in a great way. The phone calls are absolutely disturbing in an unexpected way.
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Apr 28, 2014 02:21
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ClydeUmney posted:I actually kinda prefer it to Halloween, if I'm being honest. It's a tight contest, and the weak ending nearly pushes it the other way, but drat if Black Christmas doesn't still unsettle me in a great way. The phone calls are absolutely disturbing in an unexpected way. Any idea if the remake is any good? I kinda have a thing for Lacey Chabert, but can't bring myself to investigate Black Christmas
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Apr 28, 2014 02:31
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Only in Cinema Discusso could you have folks comparing Jacob's Ladder unfavorably to Fight Club and the Usual Suspects.
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Apr 28, 2014 03:05
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Tharizdun posted:Yeah, it was definitely a product of its age and doesn't hold up well. A few freaky "is this happening?" scenes really doesn't compare when we get things like Fight Club, The Usual Suspects and Seven in the next few years, to say nothing of demonic thrillers like The Ninth Gate and In The Mouth of Madness just a few years later. What is this nonsense trashing a stone cold classic like Jacob's Ladder while in the same line praising Fight Club and The Ninth Gate.
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Apr 28, 2014 03:33
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Do people really dislike Fight Club nowadays? The Usual Suspects is a pile but I think Fight Club still holds up. It's Very 90's, but that's what you want.
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Apr 28, 2014 03:34
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Oliver Reed posted:Let's not forget to show love for Black Christmas. I mean sure if we wanna connect the dots we can go back to Peeping Tom and Psycho, etc. but Black Christmas is close enough to the others to warrant a mention. An argument could be made for Peeping Tom, but really not Psycho. The shower death is incredibly important and part of the DNA of slashers, but Psycho is a thriller through and through. Speaking of which, in a Monster Madness video for the Mummy series, James makes a good argument for the Mummy movies being proto-slashers.
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Apr 28, 2014 03:37
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Don't get me wrong, I like Fight Club, I think it's a good movie. I don't think it's great or a piece of brilliant genre defining filmmaking or get why it's being compared to a genre horror movie that came out a decade before it. Jacob's Ladder owns.
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Apr 28, 2014 03:41
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Technetium posted:What is this nonsense trashing a stone cold classic like Jacob's Ladder while in the same line praising Fight Club and The Ninth Gate. Fight Club is a really good movie with really dumb fans (unlike Boondock Saints, which is a really bad movie with really bad fans). Jacob's Ladder is just a mish-mash of bad effects with a bunch of "is he crazy? is he sane and the world is crazy?" navel-gazing at the very tail-end of America's collective give-a-poo poo timeframe for Vietnam. I'm sorry I mentioned the Ninth Gate, but still In the Mouth of Madness is a much better "is he crazy?" flick by all measures. Jacob's Ladder is really boring, hth.
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Apr 28, 2014 03:43
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I'm probably the biggest defender of In the Mouth of Madness in this thread, and no, sorry, you're crazy. ItMoM is a funny movie, it doesn't treat the concept of going insane with any respect at all because it's about a dimestore novel hack making his cliched vision of the apocalypse real. Jacob's Ladder is a little more long and meandering than it ought to be (and, bizarrely, some of the scenes they removed are much better than stuff that made the cut) but it's better at genuinely shocking imagery than ItMoM ever was. It's also as much about putting yourself back together as it is about falling apart, which is why the second half is virtually a different movie from the first. Yes, even despite the reveal that he's been dead the whole time.
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Apr 28, 2014 03:50
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I kind of think Friday the 13th part 6 Jason Lives is my favorite just because of the beginning alone and the end with the fire and water. Kind of thought that was awesome. It's also pretty amusing.
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Apr 28, 2014 04:09
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