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Meowbot posted:That was the dumbest episode of this show so far. I don't know if I really want to continue watching it because it is really getting stupid. It feels like it is jumping the shark and yet people think that is okay. The guy built a loving robot wolf and sent it around to kill people. Will literally figured out the killer without finding any evidence of robotics at the scene. Haha yeah, show's over + terrible now. I agree with the guy who unironically said jump the shark and has suspension of disbelief problems in a show that trucks heavily in magical realism, and the guy who thinks that was a literal robot wolf. My advice to you is to actually watch the show you're complaining about.
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Apr 28, 2014 05:58
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i watch hannibal for the gritty realistic narrative ~~~
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Apr 28, 2014 05:59
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Meowbot posted:The guy built a loving robot wolf and sent it around to kill people. Nope. Meowbot posted:Will literally figured out the killer without finding any evidence of robotics at the scene. That's because it wasn't a robot. I'm AMAZED you somehow thought it was a robot. For what it's worth, I haven't loved the past two killer-of-the-weeks, because they seem pretty heavy-handed in their parallels to Hannibal and Will. But stop finding things to complain about that are entirely from inside your own head.
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Apr 28, 2014 07:57
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Meowbot literally hasn't watched the episode. I think.
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Apr 28, 2014 08:06
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Earl of Lavender posted:It was a hydraulic hat. And the show made a point of never actually showing it in anything more than silhouette or split second action shots. God, some people here are acting like the guy spent the show stomping around like a mech, shooting fire out of his arse. Everything about this show centres on one theme - transformation. All the serial killers have it as their motif and it's what Will has been doing before our eyes since day one. This guy wearing a big old bear skull hat powered by pneumatics and some wolf-themed Freddy Kruger gloves is no more over the top than bee skull or the mushroom diabetics. He also reminded me of Better Off Ted's season 2 opener where Linda meets a guy she thinks is cool until she finds out he likes to dress up as a bear. quote:Greg: I have my own little way of acting out. I spent the episode pretending the killer was Greg and it really made things a lot more fun. Woot, found a clip on youtube. Sorry for the lovely quality but apparently taping your TV screen is the only way to stop clips from being taken down  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8BWKRBWG48 Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 09:13
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Man, the internet must have really done a number on me, cause dressing up like a bear and just hangin' out sounds like a pretty tame hobby all things considered.
Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 09:49
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I also think it's possible that the show, much like Will and Hannibal, are evolving - or devolving - and that's part of the increase in heightened reality/magical realism. The audience or narrator is losing their sanity; it's almost like the Fuller has given us encephalitis.
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Apr 28, 2014 10:12
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Gorilla Salad posted:
And then Will and Hannibal combine to form MURDERTRON and Tumblr explodes like a building in downtown Tokyo.
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Apr 28, 2014 10:26
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Did they ever give some explanation as to how the killer managed to pull the truck-driver onto the the truck's roof with such force? Or are we also meant to attribute that to "suspension of belief"? I must say, while I still love the show and will still continue watching, these past two episodes have been fairly disappointing. The lack of progression coupled with two mediocre episodes has made for some fairly frustrating TV. Maybe it was a mistake to show us the end-game at the beginning of the season? Hopefully, with only 4 episodes left, we'll see some sort of headway. Saying that it could all be attributed to my eagerness toward seeing Hannibal completely unhinged behind bars.
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Apr 28, 2014 11:21
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It's not surprising, given that season 1 also had some huge pacing problems, at least at the start of it. It did feel like a bit of a filler episode, but maybe it's there to sustain the FBI's suspicions about Hannibal, given that his patient was the killer and tried to off Will.
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Apr 28, 2014 11:35
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I'm not really enjoying the show that much any more either. It worked amazingly in season 1, where the murders were largely seen through Will and Hannibal's eyes - they seem to exist in fheir own symbolic space, where utterly implausible things are accepted as a manifestation of their tensions.. Will is deeply disturbed by the murders, Hannibal intrigued and titillated by them. They channel the audience's feelings well, and some of the weirdness can be passed off as Will's viewpoint being unreliable because of his illness. I really enjoyed the opening episodes of this season, too. Now Jack, Alana and the lab techs take a more forward role, and they're very grounded characters. They're not frightened, disturbed or even very grossed out by the murders. They like bees and one of them make a funny face when they find the murderer (and that is funny, but it devalues the horror of the actual murder). Transplanting the beautiful tree into a lab diminishes it and raises boring logistical issues (taking anything and putting into the lab turns it from a potential symbolic crystallisation of meaning into a mundane literal object; and, in this show, a really implausible and weird literal object). Alana jokes about how insane it is to find a bird-girl-horse. If you're going to put ludicrous things in your tv programme, you'd better make sure it's taken seriously in-universe, because as soon as the characters start saying "actually, this is really silly," you run the risk of the audience agreeing with you. I actually felt like the manbearwolf pulled it back, simply because the 'investigation' and resolution focused around Will and Hannibal, and largely dispensed with any actual crime procedural-type investigative/forensic work. Hannibal takes everything very seriously. Even if that thing is your delusional belief in being an predatory animal. What a good therapist! 
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Apr 28, 2014 11:57
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I would try to educate people on hydraulics, pushing power, and adduction force/ability, but I don't have the willpower to sort out the trolls.ufarn posted:it's almost like the Fuller has given us encephalitis. Yeah you need to post more in here, please. Love this idea.
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Apr 28, 2014 12:58
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Steve Yun posted:I could be wrong, but I kind of feel like Will got Gideon and Chilton hosed by Hannibal. He's the one who put the Fear of God into both of them, and both of them attempting to run from Hannibal attracted his attention even further. I'd say Gideon screwed Will, and almost everybody else (and maybe even himself), by helping Hannibal a lot more than he helped Will. He gave Will the idea to try and get Hannibal killed, then ratted him out to Alana, he denied Hannibal was the Ripper to Jack and planted the idea that it's Chilton. What I don't quite get is why? What did he expect to get for that? Shouldn't he have known that Hannibal would kill him no matter what he did because he knows he's the Ripper? So was his motive just screwing around with everybody, disregarding his own safety?
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Apr 28, 2014 13:12
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Paradox Personified posted:I would try to educate people on hydraulics, pushing power, and adduction force/ability, but I don't have the willpower to sort out the trolls.
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Apr 28, 2014 13:26
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I'm enjoying the show more so than ever. This was the closest we've gotten to a murderer who does it for murders sake, rather than using the body as an art object. If you'd actually pay attention it was less a robotic wolf suit and a pneumatic bear-trap mask. Which isn't that too far fetched when you consider the life's work of some people in actual reality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WWiPiks1sU As for the logistics of the murders; who cares? A guy can raise a totem made of human bodies easily enough by raising it with a pickup truck. I went to an art exhibition the other year where an artist had planted an entire forest inside the gallery. And so on. It is perhaps better to think of the victims as material rather than people, the actual impact of their deaths impact the living rather than the pain in dying (we rarely see victims murdered unless Will is imagining doing it). In this show death is art, and the art is used as a metaphor, or a reflection, on what it means to be alive. It is less important how a murder was committed but why. It's also a little silly to complain that the show is becoming too ridiculous as it is fiction. It obeys the laws of its universe. The phrase 'jumping the shark' derives from an episode of Happy Days in which the Fonz jumps over a shark, making the series outlandish and too far removed from its original concept. The Simpsons is also a good example of this. Anyway; I really liked this episode as I think it dealt a lot with the act of killing. Hannibal sees killing as a way to transcend humanity, to become more like a god, whilst Randall sees killing as a way to distance himself from his humanity by becoming more animal-like. The latter is a common idea with things like werewolves, though it also can be traced back to shamanism and so on from early religions. There's been more of a theme this season of how the natural interacts with humans, with bees, trees and now fossils being used as part of the tableau. For those that don't believe in God, Nature is the closest thing to it and the two are linked. And to go deeper, what is the nature of man? Is he an animal giving into instinct, or is he transcending his humanity to become more angelic? and by what methods would be needed for this transformation to take place. Of course, there were some parts that made me laugh; like Will running in slow motion through the snow clutching a shotgun and a dog. And yes, the idea of killing somebody with a skull mask is ridiculous. Though it added to my enjoyment of the show, which is what's most important. There is a little humour in violence, and vice versa. I think John Carpenter said once that it's good to warm an audience up with a few jokes before trying to scare them as it makes the viewer more open to emotional responses.
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Apr 28, 2014 13:54
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The angelmaker episode last season was the silliest MOTW to date, and yet the character stuff between Hannibal and Will keeps that episode worth watching. That's kind of this show's thing -- even if you roll your eyes at the murder parts (honestly, my eyes were rolling at the manbear), everything else in each episode is excellent and well worth your while to watch. E: I mean, if you don't like it, you don't like it. But that doesn't mean the show is bad, or was good and is now bad.
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Apr 28, 2014 14:00
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justcola posted:There's been more of a theme this season of how the natural interacts with humans, with bees, trees and now fossils being used as part of the tableau. For those that don't believe in God, Nature is the closest thing to it and the two are linked. And to go deeper, what is the nature of man? Is he an animal giving into instinct, or is he transcending his humanity to become more angelic? and by what methods would be needed for this transformation to take place. I did like that he tried to become more animal specifically by actually becoming more machine. I wonder how sincere Hannibal was being when he praised the idea? Compared to the mural maker, who highlighted the artistic beauty of human bodies and imbued them with religious significance, or the beehive maker who turned troubled minds into honey, hanging machinery on yourself and ripping people apart (and not eating them!!) seems rather tasteless. e: well, he used the guy as cannon fodder for Will, so he obviously didn't think too much of it Prism Mirror Lens fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 14:16
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I laughed pretty hard when the truck driver got pulled out of frame. There's a hilarious almost-Jurassic-Parkish roar that accompanies it and I just couldn't stop laughing for a few minutes. RAAAAAWR, said the otherkin! RAAAWR! My boyfriend was nerding out over the hydraulic suit because that's totally a thing that someone could build, as Paradox Personified implied. So that was easier for me to digest once he showed me examples and such. But man, the Bearhat still makes me laugh. I liked last week's episode overall; I liked this week's episode on a second viewing, but the hokey parts are still hokey. Both episodes led up to a fantastic conclusion (at least to me), so I suppose I'm faster to forgive the rest. I've always been more interested in the dynamics between Murderlord Will and Hannibal than any other part of the show, so the focus moving back to them makes me happy. ufarn posted:I also think it's possible that the show, much like Will and Hannibal, are evolving - or devolving - and that's part of the increase in heightened reality/magical realism. I love this idea. The camera itself has become an unreliable narrator.
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Apr 28, 2014 15:01
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Rabbit Hill posted:That's kind of this show's thing -- even if you roll your eyes at the murder parts (honestly, my eyes were rolling at the manbear), everything else in each episode is excellent and well worth your while to watch. To some the magical realism is a conceit, to others it's another artistic layer. I can totally understand why i's not for everyone, but the show deserves at to be taken face value for what it is and aspires to be.
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Apr 28, 2014 15:27
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Even when the show is at its silliest, the art direction is still amazing. Made blood in the snow beautiful.
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Apr 28, 2014 16:05
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Look, I can accept a dozen different serial killers killing literally hundreds of people with a stunning variety of displaying them in a single region of the US over the course of only a few years but a man dressing up like a bear and building a hydraulic jaw capable of biting through bone and sharpening claws to the point of being able to cut through human flesh like some kind of knife or something? Now you've gone too far, Fuller.
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Apr 28, 2014 16:11
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I'd like to see Mythbusters get on that myth, and see if you could really build a pneumatic bearwolf suit, have the bite force be strong enough to snap bone without breaking the bear's teeth or jaw, and be able to wear the rig around and even run in it. Not that I didn't suspend my disbelief while watching, it didn't really bother me, but I'd like to see if it's all actually possible.
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Apr 28, 2014 16:50
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Dapper Dan posted:My guess is that he doesn't get disemboweled but he still checks himself into a mental institution. Because by baiting Hannibal, he is effectively gutting his own psyche. What Will is doing is forcefully cutting the mask off who he is and perceives himself to be, and handing it to Hannibal. This is so that his quarry will be enticed by the meat and blood underneath. The perfect irresistible bait for Hannibal. He has to be authentic or it won't work (the 'live bait'). Any other agenda would be found out almost immediately. Great post, I'm going to be looking at Will's character shift that way from now on.
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Apr 28, 2014 17:06
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King Vidiot posted:I'd like to see Mythbusters get on that myth, and see if you could really build a pneumatic bearwolf suit, have the bite force be strong enough to snap bone without breaking the bear's teeth or jaw, and be able to wear the rig around and even run in it. I imagine that you could easily build something like that, it's just wouldn't be something that you could jump up on a truck or sprint across a snow covered field while wearing without falling flat on your metal face with the shifted weight. The woman who tripped in the snowfield would probably have to lie there for a good two minutes while she waited for the guy to catch up to her
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Apr 28, 2014 17:47
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Every single one of the extravagant kills is probably actually impossible for one person to do in real life, why does it matter you turds?
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Apr 28, 2014 17:53
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Vhak lord of hate posted:Every single one of the extravagant kills is probably actually impossible for one person to do in real life, why does it matter you turds? You saying I couldn't plant flowers in a guy in a tree in the middle of a parking lot?
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Apr 28, 2014 17:57
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I was totally sewn into a horse in the past and lived, you guys.
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Apr 28, 2014 17:58
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I do think the bear wolf costume was a bit too silly for me, the way he was moving about like he was in American Werewolf in London. Yes there were other impossible or extremely unlikely things that happened on the show that I didn't mind, and I couldn't really say where the dividing line between acceptable and silly is, just that this episode was on the wrong side of it.
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Apr 28, 2014 17:58
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Paradox Personified posted:I was totally sewn into a horse in the past and lived, you guys. Did a bird live inside you for days without suffocating?
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Apr 28, 2014 17:59
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PostNouveau posted:Did a bird live inside you for days without suffocating? gently caress. I knew I forgot something.
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Apr 28, 2014 18:06
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Some people are snarking pretty hard in this thread, but I think they're being unfair. The source material from these books definitely has the operatic elements that Fuller has described, but they're also impressively grounded, the first two more than the last two. Most of the characters are inspired by real people; Gumb's trap with the couch and the sling are borrowed directly from Ted Bundy -- and the protagonists spend most of their time engaged in research and investigation, with Silence of the Lambs dedicating a remarkable amount of time to office politics and entrenched sexism. The books also make it clear that the cases are extreme events, which require unusual tactics -- bringing Will out of retirement, sending Clarice to interview Hannibal. I don't think it's a coincidence that Hannibal and Hannnibal Rising, which are the most extreme and divorced from reality, tend to be the two books and films which were most poorly received. And even Hannibal, as absurd as he seems, is based on a real-life individual. The show Hannibal has pushed the envelope considerably -- which is fine! -- but I think it is possible to go too far. For me, I'd say it was the catgut fight and most recently the cavebear-mechsuit. Part of the problem may be motivation -- I can imagine some psycho wanting to build a totem pole out of bodies, but I'm not aware of too many killings done with a hydraulic clamp system. (Tree man didn't bother me at all, possibly because he was killed by Hannibal, for whom all things are possible.) If could change two things, I'd like to see less Murder of the Weeks -- maybe spending more time on a single case -- and I'd like to ease off the crazy methods maybe 10% and draw some more inspiration from real life. But considering the fact that these are the ONLY two things I'd want to change, I'd say the show's doing an incredible job.
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Apr 28, 2014 18:51
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I love the idea of the murder(s) of the week because they're neat visual foils for the main story, and I think this show does a great job of not "romanticizing" the killers by giving them little-to-no screen time, as well as very rarely showing them in action. I definitely do not agree with your idea of drawing from real life for inspiration, when it seems that is literally the way every other show about serial killers does it.
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Apr 28, 2014 19:07
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Parachute posted:I definitely do not agree with your idea of drawing from real life for inspiration, when it seems that is literally the way every other show about serial killers does it. Yeah I do have to agree that I like how outlandish the murders are. Having some crazy new hosed up thing every week is at least better than repetitive 'here's another serial killer who murders prostitutes because his mom never hugged him enough'. I mean yeah, that's pretty close to a lot of real serial killers but where's the pizzazz? The class? The presentation? And I'm surprised how many people hated the angel-maker. He was probably my favourite season one serial killer. The angels were just so... I dunno I just really liked them. Morbidly beautiful, a bit more unique than growing flowers in a dead body, growing bees in a dead body, growing a tree in a dead body, growing [blank] in a corpse thing that seemed to be popping up a lot.
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Apr 28, 2014 19:22
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PootieTang posted:And I'm surprised how many people hated the angel-maker. He was probably my favourite season one serial killer. The angels were just so... I dunno I just really liked them. Morbidly beautiful, a bit more unique than growing flowers in a dead body, growing bees in a dead body, growing a tree in a dead body, growing [blank] in a corpse thing that seemed to be popping up a lot. It might be because of all the first season killers, that was the one that veered most heavily into surrealism. The way he chose his victims, stringing himself up by ???, etc. Personally I liked it because the visuals were amazing, but I can see why others might struggle. This season is diving into Gabriel Garcia Marquez levels of magical realism which it hadn't really used before, so the level of suspension of disbelief needed is pretty rough. The show's primary function has always been symbolic interpretation, which isn't true of any other crime investigation show that I'm aware of. I think this season they're going into the extreme of that. While I'm enjoying the surrealism, I hope that come season 3 they tone it back down to season 1 levels because it's hard to draw in a new audience when you have a living bird inside a dead lady inside a dead horse as their introduction. It's a tough pill to swallow. For me, I was hooked by the second episode because I work in a lab with fungus and the science was actually not terrible. It made my fungus-studying heart glad. I feel like if they'd done that same murderer this season, it wouldn't have been nearly as satisfying because the style is totally different. Also, the director of the last episode is credited with Queen of the Damned. Just sayin'. Wiggy Marie fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 19:30
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I definitely appreciate the other side of this discussion -- there have been some incredible visuals, like the muralist -- but I would just point out that the ravenstag, which has become one of the most repeated and unsettling motifs on the show, came from the Minnesota Shrike case, and Hobbs was probably the most grounded killer we've seen so far.
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Apr 28, 2014 19:47
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Wiggy Marie posted:The show's primary function has always been symbolic interpretation, which isn't true of any other crime investigation show that I'm aware of. I think this season they're going into the extreme of that. While I'm enjoying the surrealism, I hope that come season 3 they tone it back down to season 1 levels because it's hard to draw in a new audience when you have a living bird inside a dead lady inside a dead horse as their introduction. It's a tough pill to swallow. Yeah back to season 1 levels of realism, like the aforementioned guy who made an angel out of himself, a mushroom garden cemetery, and a literal totem pole made out of dozens of dead body parts. None of this whacky, unbelievable poo poo like a hydraulic jaw, or basic animal surgery. Also this past episode was the highest rated in four weeks, so your theory about how the horse episode is pulling people away is just wrong. Basically Hannibal has always been an incredibly beautiful, deeply haunting show, and Fuller/the writers are simply getting more creative with the murders/cases. It's not some crazy, 180 degree tonal shift, and people are really cherry picking the cases when they pretend that season 1 was this grounded, gritty, realistic look at serial profiling compared to this current season. VDay fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 20:41
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VDay posted:Yeah back to season 1 levels of realism, like the aforementioned guy who made an angel out of himself, a mushroom garden cemetery, and a literal totem pole made out of dozens of dead body parts. None of this whacky, unbelievable poo poo like a hydraulic jaw, or basic animal surgery. Also this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLDMhbE1W6o Anyone upset about the show becoming ridiculous is retarded for taking so long to realize the show they watch is ridiculous
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Apr 28, 2014 20:56
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VDay posted:Yeah back to season 1 levels of realism, like the aforementioned guy who made an angel out of himself, a mushroom garden cemetery, and a literal totem pole made out of dozens of dead body parts. None of this whacky, unbelievable poo poo like a hydraulic jaw, or basic animal surgery. Not pulling people away so much as possibly being a bit much for an introduction. The ratings improving is always welcome news, so I'm happy to be wrong about that. As for the tone, while hallucinations and surrealism have always been a strong part of the show, I do feel that this season is much heavier with it than last - possibly due to fewer murder-of-the-week cases. It's not anything that bothers me, but I can see why it might bother other people. While the human angels, mushroom garden and totem pole were all surreal, none of them were totally outside the realm of possibility. For instance, a fungus growing on a corpse happens, in reality. There's no real suspension of disbelief needed for that. Believing that a bird could be inserted into a woman's chest without any visible incisions and survive for several hours, on the other hand, requires you to just say "ok sure I guess" and appreciate that it happened rather than ask how it happened. If that distinction makes sense?
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Apr 28, 2014 20:56
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Guy in horse and Manbear aren't even remotely ridiculous compared to the still alive bird behind the heart gag. That is ridiculous for ridiculousness sake. "I-I-I-I didn't want to hurt da bird s-s-s-so I sewed it some woman's rotting chest cavity."
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Apr 28, 2014 21:03
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As if a guy who received a horse kick to the head is going to have the soundest of judgment...
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Apr 28, 2014 21:09
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