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flakeloaf posted:If it were one of my fellow officers it wouldn't be my call. Administrative reporting usually involves telling your mutual supervisor through the chain of command, or reaching out to infernal affairs directly; it's their job is to be the pariah, it's their area of expertise, let the pros do their thing. If the member were suspected of criminal wrongdoing another police agency would be called in to investigate. I find this answer interesting and infuriating, to be honest. You wouldn't arrest someone who committed a violent assault, that you were a direct witness to, because "not my call"?? You have the legal "authority" to straight up kill people, but you cant make that call? Do you find this to be a hindrance to your public service?
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Apr 28, 2014 19:42
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Are you conflating arrest with charges? You can have one without the other. Arrest is intened to stop recurrence/commission of a reasonably predictable offense, protect evidence and compel appearance in court. If you can't articulate why your arrest does that then it would be illegal to try. There's also the way that cops fighting each other makes suspects and other swarthy people want to take advantage of the chaos. The goal in any situation is to keep the peace - make a loud noise, take the other officer's hands off your guy and maintain the appearance of control over the situation. It's irregular (but not totally unheard of) for a service to charge its own members but again, that's something that has to come from upstairs. Right when it's happening you stop the offense, observe, report, call a supervisor and IAB and let the managers do their job. If you're not happy with the answer then take it higher. Acting alone against a peer without support from the highers-up will only end in tears.
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Apr 28, 2014 20:13
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I'd like to think I, and most cops, would have separated that guy from the arrestee before it became an issue. Also based on this article the officer was fired and the case was handed over to the prosecutor's office to determine charges, which is probably the right way to go about it.
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Apr 28, 2014 20:16
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Whip Slagcheek posted:I'd like to think I, and most cops, would have separated that guy from the arrestee before it became an issue. Isn't it an assault the second the assailant initiates contact? There isn't like some sort of time allowance is there? Not like "you can choke a victim for 20 seconds before it becomes illegal" type of thing.
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Apr 28, 2014 20:38
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I'm saying before he even makes contact. There's probably some verbal and non-verbal indicators that the cop is pissed off about whatever and going to do something stupid. There's been a couple times I've had to pull a coworker away from someone so they wouldn't do something stupid.
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Apr 28, 2014 20:49
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Did any of you become police officer's because people can't seem to figure out how to make turns in to the correct lane? Because I swear it makes me consider a career in law enforcement on the daily.
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Apr 28, 2014 20:55
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People being bad at traffic is why I love being a cop. All of those times people are like "gently caress where's a cop when you need one" That's me. I'm there. 
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Apr 28, 2014 21:00
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Booblord Zagats posted:Did any of you become police officer's because people can't seem to figure out how to make turns in to the correct lane? Because I swear it makes me consider a career in law enforcement on the daily. I became a police officer because I watched a female police officer get hit in the head with a brick during the riots and thought it was bang out of order. Also because I wanted to dress up like a stripper. Also because I was bullied at school.
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Apr 28, 2014 21:05
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Since there was no chat about the standoff between the Utah rancher Bundy and the BLM in this thread, I thought I'd ask you who work as LEOs what you think about the whole showdown. Were the feds right in backing off from confrontation?
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Apr 28, 2014 21:10
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It'd have likely turned very bloody on both sides. No one wants a repeat of Waco/Ruby Ridge/whatever. The guy is committing a non-violent crime and can just as easily be dealt with in the legal system than sending in the federales to forcefully herd up his cows and ship them off. I don't think we've heard the last of the Bundy ranch, I think BLM has just backed off for now to let tensions settle a bit and look at alternative means of dealing with it. If the guy is committing a crime you can't just throw your hands up and say "welp" just because he got some whackos with guns to come out and protest with him. So I guess what I'm saying is "maybe"
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Apr 28, 2014 21:17
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I'm ok with the Feds going Waco on bundy and his teabag militia
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Apr 28, 2014 21:24
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I think it'll sort itself out now that he's outting himself as a crazy racist sovereign whack job.
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Apr 28, 2014 21:26
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Whip Slagcheek posted:I think it'll sort itself out now that he's outting himself as a crazy racist sovereign whack job. I love how surprised everyone seems to be that the elderly white right-wing rancher has some controversial thoughts on race.
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Apr 28, 2014 21:45
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Whip Slagcheek posted:It'd have likely turned very bloody on both sides. No one wants a repeat of Waco/Ruby Ridge/whatever. The guy is committing a non-violent crime and can just as easily be dealt with in the legal system than sending in the federales to forcefully herd up his cows and ship them off. Seriously, this is EXACTLY what we have drones for everywhere else in the world
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Apr 28, 2014 21:59
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Booblord Zagats posted:Seriously, this is EXACTLY what we have drones for everywhere else in the world Is Obama reading the thread 
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Apr 28, 2014 22:04
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beanieson posted:Is Obama reading the thread I'm just saying, if this poo poo was in Yemen, all that would have happened was a few Predator's creating a big rear end all beef BBQ with some hellfires. Also the wedding going on 8 ranches down would be pretty hosed too
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Apr 28, 2014 22:19
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I would totally be ok with Obama-Drones blowing people up on American soil, as long as it wasn't me.
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Apr 28, 2014 22:20
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I ain;t saying I'm cool with it, poo poo, I'm not that happy with robots blowing people up period, since it violates the first rule of robotics and all, but goose needs to meet the gander
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Apr 28, 2014 22:26
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Whip Slagcheek posted:People being bad at traffic is why I love being a cop. All of those times people are like "gently caress where's a cop when you need one" That's me. I'm there. Please become a Maryland state trooper then. If 10% of the poo poo I saw every morning resulted in a citation, I wouldn't have to hug my girlfriend as though it was the last time I may see her before leaving for work. As far as the whole Bundy thing goes, could there be charges filed against any of those militia types who were photographed in snipers' positions pointing their rifles in the direction of the BLM observation/command post? To my way of thinking, that'd probably would have gotten someone shot if it were any other scenario.
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Apr 28, 2014 22:35
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flakeloaf posted:Are you conflating arrest with charges? You can have one without the other. Arrest is intened to stop recurrence/commission of a reasonably predictable offense, protect evidence and compel appearance in court. If you can't articulate why your arrest does that then it would be illegal to try. There's also the way that cops fighting each other makes suspects and other swarthy people want to take advantage of the chaos. The goal in any situation is to keep the peace - make a loud noise, take the other officer's hands off your guy and maintain the appearance of control over the situation. Im sorry for bringing your topic back up but I dont think I can possibly be reading your posts correctly. You dont feel acting alone against a peer without support from the highers-ups might be necessary when an officer literally strangles someone into unconciousness? You personally, if you were not able to step in before the entire incident occurred, would not even consider for a second arresting or forcefully detaining Mr Choker for his attempted murder? treasured8elief fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Apr 28, 2014 |
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Apr 28, 2014 23:51
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suboptimal posted:Please become a Maryland state trooper then. If 10% of the poo poo I saw every morning resulted in a citation, I wouldn't have to hug my girlfriend as though it was the last time I may see her before leaving for work. I have no idea what kind of charges Nevada has in regards to that. I know Nevada's laws are much more liberal with regards to firearms and the like. If it was DC, like that guy wanted to do this past 4th of July, it'd have likely turned into an armed standoff.
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Apr 29, 2014 00:15
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tentative8e8op posted:Im sorry for bringing your topic back up but I dont think I can possibly be reading your posts correctly. You dont feel acting alone against a peer without support from the highers-ups might be necessary when an officer literally strangles someone into unconciousness? I'm saying that if this potential charge has any legs at all, support from highers-up is an inevitability. You just may need to be a bit bold in the way you define "high". You can call IAB, you can walk the chain of command all the way up to the commissioner if you smell something fishy in the lower ranks, you can call the prosecutor yourself for advice if you want to, and if your whole force is rotten you can engage another outside agency's specialists. Even if he's right, one patrolman simply can not take on the system from below and win. The system just isn't built that way. All he'll do is piss everyone off. quote:You personally, if you were not able to step in before the entire incident occurred, would not even consider for a second arresting or forcefully detaining Mr Choker for his attempted murder? As mentioned earlier, if you allow him to get his hands on your guy you've already lost, and once the incident is over there's (edit: probably) no point in arresting him. He's not assaulting anyone right now, he's not going anywhere and my notebook won't be any less legible tomorrow. Observe, document, report. The assault should've been prevented yes but from where I sit all the way in another country with no knowledge of anyone involved, it certainly looks to me like everything after that point was handled correctly. flakeloaf fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 00:24
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Hey Whip, how do you become the regular DC cop car in the executive convoys running through the city? Do they just grab cars at random for it or is it a special duty? I just got curious after seeing the umpteenth convoy go down the parkway.
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Apr 29, 2014 01:02
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Those are ERT guys (DC's SWAT team) in the convoy. It's not really a special assignment, it's just whoever is available from their team. I'm not 100% on that but that's how it's assigned with our guys.
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Apr 29, 2014 01:24
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Whip Slagcheek posted:I have no idea what kind of charges Nevada has in regards to that. I know Nevada's laws are much more liberal with regards to firearms and the like. If it was DC, like that guy wanted to do this past 4th of July, it'd have likely turned into an armed standoff. Good point about Nevada state laws, but wouldn't this be more of a federal thing? Can't imagine that the feds would tolerate that more than the locals. And regarding DC- aren't we supposed to have another 10 MILLION PATRIOTS' MARCH ON DC event soon? Considering how the Mall, monuments etc are all federal land, how does USPP gear up for something like that?
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Apr 29, 2014 01:38
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suboptimal posted:Good point about Nevada state laws, but wouldn't this be more of a federal thing? Can't imagine that the feds would tolerate that more than the locals. In a lot of places state code is what enforced by federal police. There are federal laws for many things, but not everything. In some park lands the feds enforce state law with cases in local courts, enforce state law accepted by the feds in federal court, or federal laws in federal courts. It can really depend. That said, the people in question probably were not on federal property so it would have fallen on local law anyway. Also, I'm not sure if federal blm lands have a "brandishing" type code section, if not then the local laws would likely apply instead. So Nevada. Untagged fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 01:53
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tentative8e8op posted:Im sorry for bringing your topic back up but I dont think I can possibly be reading your posts correctly. You dont feel acting alone against a peer without support from the highers-ups might be necessary when an officer literally strangles someone into unconciousness? That would really escalate the situation, because chances are that guy isn't just going to let you detain him, so now you're going to have two cops fighting, that third guy is probably going to be standing around with his finger up his rear end, and you have a guy in cuffs laying unconscious on the ground. There are more important things to handle at that moment then cuffing up a guy who you know his name, work, supervisors, etc. Protect your detainee and handle the rest when it's safe to do so.
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Apr 29, 2014 01:55
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Do you know of any books, preferably fiction but narrative non-fiction works too, that are about the life of your average police officer? Not a noir detective story, but something more like the fantastic movie End of Watch. Every book I find on the internet seems to be about detectives, whereas I prefer material like End of Watch and SouthLand. blue squares fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 02:29
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suboptimal posted:Good point about Nevada state laws, but wouldn't this be more of a federal thing? Can't imagine that the feds would tolerate that more than the locals. Yeah there is, but the planning for that is way above my head. Also, I'll be on leave so whatever.
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Apr 29, 2014 02:37
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blue squares posted:Do you know of any books, preferably fiction but narrative non-fiction works too, that are about the life of your average police officer? Not a noir detective story, but something more like the fantastic movie End of Watch. If you want short non fiction narrative stories "True Blue: Police Stories by Those Who Have Lived Them" is pretty good and if you like CSI type stuff I'd also recommend "Never Suck A Dead Man's Hand: Curious Adventures of a CSI" as well.
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Apr 29, 2014 03:20
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blue squares posted:Do you know of any books, preferably fiction but narrative non-fiction works too, that are about the life of your average police officer? Not a noir detective story, but something more like the fantastic movie End of Watch. http://www.amazon.com/BOOT-Officers...words=boot+lapd this one I really enjoyed, and it takes place in the LAPD in the 90s, it's about as the name implies, the authors rookie year in the LAPD. anything by Joseph Wambaugh is good, His stories like hollywood hills hollywood station harbor nocturne etc are all fictional and set in the modern day LAPD. http://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Wambaugh/e/B000APXD4A/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_pop_1
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Apr 29, 2014 04:17
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Branis posted:http://www.amazon.com/BOOT-Officers...words=boot+lapd Thanks! I just ordered Hollywood Station. Looks like it's modern and not about detectives, which is just what I was looking for. Boot looks like it might be an interesting perspective but the reviews said it was pretty poorly written, and it's from the 90s.
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Apr 29, 2014 04:28
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Grem posted:That would really escalate the situation, because chances are that guy isn't just going to let you detain him, so now you're going to have two cops fighting, that third guy is probably going to be standing around with his finger up his rear end, and you have a guy in cuffs laying unconscious on the ground. There are more important things to handle at that moment then cuffing up a guy who you know his name, work, supervisors, etc. Protect your detainee and handle the rest when it's safe to do so. So then he should be charged with assault and resisting arrest, like any other person. If you were to come across a family member (you know where they live, work, contact numbers) choking some motherfucker out in the street you'd arrest them straight away. If they ran or fought back it would make things worse for them legally and it should be no different if that person is in uniform or not. I don't think the handcuffed, unconscious student is going to be causing you any-more trouble.
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Apr 29, 2014 04:54
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beanieson posted:I love how surprised everyone seems to be that the elderly white right-wing rancher has some controversial thoughts on race. The whole "only my country sheriff can arrest me" spiel should have raised the racist red flags. That goes all the way back to Posse Comitatus. Hell the whole sovereign citizen movement is mired in racist undertones.
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Apr 29, 2014 05:22
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Seconding books by Joseph Wambaugh. I was a huge fan of his Hollywood series before I joined. Edit: I think I actually have the sequel to Hollywood Division sitting unread on my Kindle.
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Apr 29, 2014 05:25
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Abongination posted:
Nope, but the hundreds of drunk people around them and the dozen or so who were throwing bottles at the police were. Maybe he choked that kid out to send a clear message to the crowd. He probably saved lives that night by deescalating the situation.
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Apr 29, 2014 06:05
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Abongination posted:So then he should be charged with assault and resisting arrest, like any other person. There are tons of times that people don't get arrested on the spot and get charged with later. They know who it is they have the evidence and it was dealt with accordingly, the guy the guy got fired and probably going to be facing charges, I don't see what more you could possibly want? I promise you that even in whatever perfect society you imagine in your brain, no cop is going to arrest another cop straight out on the scene of something.
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Apr 29, 2014 06:41
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flakeloaf posted:As mentioned earlier, if you allow him to get his hands on your guy you've already lost, and once the incident is over there's (edit: probably) no point in arresting him. He's not assaulting anyone right now, he's not going anywhere and my notebook won't be any less legible tomorrow. Observe, document, report. The assault should've been prevented yes but from where I sit all the way in another country with no knowledge of anyone involved, it certainly looks to me like everything after that point was handled correctly. Im glad you agree with me that, if an identified bystander knocked Mr Choker unconscious with an expertly thrown large rock, the thrower shouldn't be arrested. e, im picturing Mr identified bystander throwing only one rock at the officer during the assault, and afterwards just calmly standing by until police leave. treasured8elief fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 08:13
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tentative8e8op posted:Im glad you agree with me that, if an identified bystander knocked Mr Choker unconscious with an expertly thrown large rock, the thrower shouldn't be arrested. You're picturing a stupid fantasy that won't happen.
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Apr 29, 2014 10:40
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e:- ty all for answering. im glad you took the time to post your answers, but you only helped convince me even more that most of you are honestly pretty terrible people. sorry treasured8elief fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 10:42
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