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Just toss in some granite knobs and and stainless steel tubes it's all good.
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Apr 30, 2014 06:52
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Baronjutter posted:Just toss in some granite knobs and and stainless steel tubes it's all good. This is... brilliant.
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Apr 30, 2014 07:42
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Rime posted:That's actually considered to be a "fixer upper" in Toronto? Agents seriously point out Knob & Tube as a negative in the listings? I'm not an expert, so don't know whether there's any real issue, but there is a perception in the Toronto market that knob-and-tube is dangerously outdated and on par with having asbestos in your house. Most people will pay to have it removed immediately on purchase of an older place. Sounds like even other realtors thought what this guy did was scummy, although they're likely more mad that he got paid on both ends than that he got his client a huge windfall by structuring the listing the way he did.
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Apr 30, 2014 10:54
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What the gently caress is a knob and tube, some kind of plumbing they only have in Toronto?
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Apr 30, 2014 11:37
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Throatwarbler posted:What the gently caress is a knob and tube, some kind of plumbing they only have in Toronto? Old school wiring I think. Can be a legitimate problem sometimes I've heard. Someone more knowledgable will probably post the details soon.
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Apr 30, 2014 11:38
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I am confused how pricing low results in a windfall. If it's that easy, why isn't every listing for $1 and then the money rolls in more than otherwise would? Everything about real estate baffles me.
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Apr 30, 2014 12:10
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Throatwarbler posted:What the gently caress is a knob and tube, some kind of plumbing they only have in Toronto? It's a method of electrical wiring in use from the 1890's to the 1930's, using a series of single strand copper wires through porcelain tubes to go through studs and nailed-on knobs to support the wire along long sections. It's completely safe if done correctly (which back in the day, it was because it was a truly laborious process done by electricians), but the disadvantage is that it can cause a fire if you're a moron an put insulation next to it, or any kind of obstruction, or damage it during a renovation. Also, it will burn down your house if you are a double moron and install a fuse in the box that exceeds the capacity of the wire and put too much electrical load on the circuit because the wire will heat up and sag between the knobs and possibly come into contact with flammable building materials. It was the cheaper way to wire a house back then, vs armored cable & conduit, but that changed pretty quick. Some Ontario insurance companies won't write policies on houses with K&T, so it's seen as 'dangerous'.
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Apr 30, 2014 12:49
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Isn't K&T wiring something you HAVE to disclose by law? You'd think "it's perfectly safe but you might have a hard time getting insurance and have to redo the whole electrical in a bit!" Would drag the price down.
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Apr 30, 2014 12:54
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FrozenVent posted:Isn't K&T wiring something you HAVE to disclose by law? Nope. You're only required to disclose if it was a grow op or if the defect makes the house dangerous or unfit to live in. Knob and tube is right up there with Poly B plumbing on the list of things a home inspector with an intellectual capacity greater than a cantaloupe will find though. Caveat Emptor, baby.
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Apr 30, 2014 13:01
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How do people buy houses without getting an inspection first?
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Apr 30, 2014 13:40
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peter banana posted:How do people buy houses without getting an inspection first? This, a hundred times. I bought a house recently, brand new construction, but I still wasn't dumb enough to not pay $500 for an inspection; and there were indeed a few (relatively minor) issues that the seller was responsible for that the builder wasn't necessarily going to cover under the regular new home warranty. And my house was "only" $330k, not some presumably older $1m mansion on the outskirts of Winnipeg. How did the Real Estate Lawyer not stipulate passing inspection as part of the terms of closing? I thought that was pretty standard, unless everyone had  in their eyes and wanted to close quickly.
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Apr 30, 2014 14:14
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peter banana posted:How do people buy houses without getting an inspection first? Game theory. If you're in competition with people more desperate to build equity than you, submit an offer with no subjects. My parents house sold for well over a million with no subjects. People are dumb as hell.
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Apr 30, 2014 14:39
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Cultural Imperial posted:Game theory. If you're in competition with people more desperate to build equity than you, submit an offer with no subjects. My parents house sold for well over a million with no subjects. People are dumb as hell. With that number of closed bid offers, I expect a bunch of them were subjectless in an attempt to woo the seller. It's pure idiocy in my opinion.
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Apr 30, 2014 14:49
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Reading this thread is so depressing. gently caress Toronto.
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Apr 30, 2014 16:03
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Yonge and Glencairn is a very nice area, I don't see why the listing agent wouldn't have just listed it at a million and gone from there. I believe knob and tube just became uninsurable recently, my friend was told by his insurance company that they would not insure him if he didn't update the wiring in his building. He is with State Farm and this was about six months ago. He spent $25K to have it done on a building similar in size to the house in the article so, really, it is a pittance against $1.366M. Also, a house inspection is not always necessary if a house is going to be demolished anyways. Cultural Imperial posted:Game theory. If you're in competition with people more desperate to build equity than you, submit an offer with no subjects. My parents house sold for well over a million with no subjects. People are dumb as hell. I have a friend who bought a house a few years ago and he signed with no conditions because he knew that whatever would need to be done wouldn't cost as much as getting into a bidding war. jet sanchEz fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Apr 30, 2014 |
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Apr 30, 2014 16:26
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Friends of mine bought an apartment about a year ago, and their home inspector had a story. He'd inspected a Coal Harbour condo, and the concrete in the parkade wasn't up to standard. He told the prospective buyer, who bought it anyway (for equity!). Six months later the buyer sent him a photo of his Mercedes, crushed under a chunk of concrete.
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Apr 30, 2014 16:47
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Friends of mine bought an apartment about a year ago, and their home inspector had a story. Omg you need to tell us which building this is.
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Apr 30, 2014 17:19
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It's interesting to me that the Feds are so [rightly] committed to avoiding information asymmetry in some spheres, but not others. Look at the hoops one must jump through to issue stock or run a mutual fund or what have you. I know real estate is far more difficult because it's not fungible, highly illiquid, etc - but Jesus - shouldn't people know what they are buying?
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Apr 30, 2014 17:29
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So which era in Victoria had the best constructed condos? Family might be looking to buy one in the near future.
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Apr 30, 2014 17:54
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jet sanchEz posted:I don't see why the listing agent wouldn't have just listed it at a million and gone from there. Because then he would not have gotten his name in the paper which will result in more work for this douchenozzle. There is very little "product" (listings) in Toronto right now and as a result a lot of Agents are facing leaner times and getting nervous. In the past month two different agents have cold called me, said they had a buyer ready to pay top dollar for my house right now, and would I like to sell. No loving joke. The low listings are a result of people not wanting to sell becuase they'd only have to rebuy in this insane market. In a nutshell, no one would pay for their own house what they would ask for if they sold it. It's one of the real concrete signs of a turn around. Saltin fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Apr 30, 2014 |
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Apr 30, 2014 17:58
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Saltin posted:The low listings are a result of people not wanting to sell becuase they'd only have to rebuy in this insane market. Nobody has to rebuy anything. It's totally possible to sell in a bubble, wait out the crash in a rental, then buy again. Makes a lot more sense than selling for a gain and then using the cash for a larger downpayment on more debt.
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Apr 30, 2014 18:18
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Saltin posted:The low listings are a result of people not wanting to sell becuase they'd only have to rebuy in this insane market. In a nutshell, no one would pay for their own house what they would ask for if they sold it. It's one of the real concrete signs of a turn around. Is there historical precedence for this? It sounds plausible as all hell - just wondering if it's been concretely observed before.
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Apr 30, 2014 18:19
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Linkletter posted:Nobody has to rebuy anything. It's totally possible to sell in a bubble, wait out the crash in a rental, then buy again. Makes a lot more sense than selling for a gain and then using the cash for a larger downpayment on more debt. People don't think like this though. Their precious 'property ladder' and all that. Plus, even I can't deny that with kids, elderly relatives, etc in the mix - it probably does make sense on balance to own rather than rent.
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Apr 30, 2014 18:20
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Linkletter posted:Nobody has to rebuy anything. It's totally possible to sell in a bubble, wait out the crash in a rental, then buy again. Makes a lot more sense than selling for a gain and then using the cash for a larger downpayment on more debt. No poo poo, but there is a cult of home ownership in Canada, especially in places like Toronto which are status focused. This is well established and not debatable, as there are very few nations with higher home ownership percentages. No ones arguing counter to the sell and rent is smartest, but the truth is that is not what people want to do and it is resulting in the situation I mentioned earlier. Lexicon posted:Is there historical precedence for this? It sounds plausible as all hell - just wondering if it's been concretely observed before. Not that I am aware of. One similar story (though on the backside of the bubble), is Ireland. I was there in January and the 20-somethings in my family were complaining there are no houses to buy. Ireland's world famous real estate bubble crashed some time ago. In this case, there are no listings because literally everyone is underwater and can't afford to sell. It has actually resulted in housing prices cratering less than they should have, just based on supply/demand. I have no idea how people are managing to hold on there, it's depressing as all get out. I have something like 12 immmediate cousins, and not a single one of them lives in Ireland anymore. Saltin fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Apr 30, 2014 |
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Apr 30, 2014 18:22
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Throatwarbler posted:So which era in Victoria had the best constructed condos? Family might be looking to buy one in the near future. If I was stupid enough to buy a condo in Victoria I'd look for a 90's or "leaky condo" era building that has already gone through all its remediation and renovations. Anything newer and you're paying a massive price hike for the "new condo smell", anything older and you're getting into potential issues relating to the age of the building. At least buy somewhere desirable too, don't buy way out in Langford or somewhere nasty that won't retain any value. Really the most important thing is to inspect, and don't hire a "home inspector" hire an actual commercial building inspector because they have the knowledge you need to notice poo poo like problems with the parkade or hvac system. Go over the strata minutes. Look over the building top to bottom, understand its history and future plans and current finances. Know the bylaws, know if you can rent or not. You really have to do a ton of homework. But then again someone who's done their homework wouldn't be buying a condo in victoria, so uh just buy what ever has the nicest countertops and will build the best equity.
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Apr 30, 2014 18:28
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^ And don't use the inspector referred by the realtor! Separation of concerns, incentives, moral hazard, etc, etc.
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Apr 30, 2014 18:30
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Saltin posted:Not that I am aware of. One similar story (though on the backside of the bubble), is Ireland. I was there in January and the 20-somethings in my family were complaining there are no houses to buy. Ireland's world famous real estate bubble crashed some time ago. In this case, there are no listings because literally everyone is underwater and can't afford to sell. It has actually resulted in housing prices cratering less than they should have, just based on supply/demand. I have no idea how people are managing to hold on there, it's depressing as all get out. I have something like 12 immmediate cousins, and not a single one of them lives in Ireland anymore. Fascinating. That sounds a bit like what might happen in Canada. I really don't see prices cratering (other than being TVM devalued) - the market may just seize up in a manner like you've suggested.
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Apr 30, 2014 20:49
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Lexicon posted:I am confused how pricing low results in a windfall. If it's that easy, why isn't every listing for $1 and then the money rolls in more than otherwise would? His low pricing in this specific case probably roped in a bunch of aspirational  peter banana posted:How do people buy houses without getting an inspection first? It was fully disclosed in this sale. No-one was suckered, other than the ridiculous auction. And re: why he did it, yeah it was publicity for the home but he's also going to be able to point to that and tell other prospective clients how much he got over both listing and market value.
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Apr 30, 2014 20:56
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Canada Housing Bubble Thread: idk it's loving retarded and people are bad
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Apr 30, 2014 21:35
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Cultural Imperial posted:Omg you need to tell us which building this is. I wish I knew. It was a third-hand story, so may be total BS. It has the feel of truth about it, though.
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Apr 30, 2014 21:42
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Saltin posted:The low listings are a result of people not wanting to sell becuase they'd only have to rebuy in this insane market. In a nutshell, no one would pay for their own house what they would ask for if they sold it. It's one of the real concrete signs of a turn around. So? They've built up the same amount of equity either way. If they bought a place for $200k that's now worth $600k, they have an extra $400k to put towards a new home, which presumably makes up for most of the difference in price since they bought their original place at $200k. It's the entire concept of an "entry level home". You buy something cheap, wait for YOUR EQUITY to build up, then when prices have gone up you've got more down payment to put towards a better place.
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Apr 30, 2014 22:14
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HookShot posted:So? They've built up the same amount of equity either way. If they bought a place for $200k that's now worth $600k, they have an extra $400k to put towards a new home, which presumably makes up for most of the difference in price since they bought their original place at $200k. In Toronto there is a massive difference in appreciation on a neighbourhood by neighbourhood basis, even street to street in some pockets. First time buyers rarely buy "exactly" where they'd ideally like to be, so the trade up they are looking at later has appreciated more quickly than their less desirable home. Also, did you know to trade up from an average 500k semi in Toronto to a 900k-1m detached home costs well over 60k in taxes and fees? That's quite a chunk of equity. I'm going to stand by my baseless argument that the low listing situation is a function of most people realizing house prices are out of control in Toronto, and no one wanting to cash out and rent because "gotta own" It's not as clear cut as your simple equity example. In my case for example, it is literally a decision between "live here and be mortgage free in three years" and "move up to 1million and be mortgage free at 60". My place is worth at least 600k. Saltin fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Apr 30, 2014 |
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Apr 30, 2014 22:26
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Maybe there's an endowment fallacy thing going on? Say you bought a house for $500k. It's now appreciated to $1M. It likely feels more painful to sell the original and use the $1M to buy a new $1M house that subsequently drops in value to $750k, than to suffer a drop of $250k on the original house ("we're still $250k ahead so whatevs!"). Obviously this is totally irrational, because it's numerically equivalent, but it seems plausible based on how people compute value of things (i.e. poorly).
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Apr 30, 2014 22:32
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Baronjutter posted:If I was stupid enough to buy a condo in Victoria I'd look for a 90's or "leaky condo" era building that has already gone through all its remediation and renovations. Anything newer and you're paying a massive price hike for the "new condo smell", anything older and you're getting into potential issues relating to the age of the building. At least buy somewhere desirable too, don't buy way out in Langford or somewhere nasty that won't retain any value. Hmm, yeah, that sounds reasonable thanks. I'll check into what the remediations for 1990s buildings would entail. It would be somewhere in the vicinity of the university. Also it won't be happening until around next year, and prices have been dropping ever since we started looking so v  vSomeone is trying to dump a whole bunch of units over at this newer building on Mckenzie Ave.  
Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 00:56 on May 1, 2014 |
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May 1, 2014 00:45
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Lexicon posted:Maybe there's an endowment fallacy thing going on? Say you bought a house for $500k. It's now appreciated to $1M. It likely feels more painful to sell the original and use the $1M to buy a new $1M house that subsequently drops in value to $750k, than to suffer a drop of $250k on the original house ("we're still $250k ahead so whatevs!"). Obviously this is totally irrational, because it's numerically equivalent, but it seems plausible based on how people compute value of things (i.e. poorly).
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May 1, 2014 00:59
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Why do they need to be up by the university? Working there? It's not the best area for condos, or living.
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May 1, 2014 01:07
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Baronjutter posted:Why do they need to be up by the university? Working there? It's not the best area for condos, or living. I might actually go to grad school there at some point but I don't have to live close to it, Victoria isn't that big anyway. Wouldn't rentals be easier though?
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May 1, 2014 01:44
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Saltin posted:Ireland's world famous real estate bubble crashed some time ago. In this case, there are no listings because literally everyone is underwater and can't afford to sell. It has actually resulted in housing prices cratering less than they should have, just based on supply/demand.
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May 1, 2014 07:05
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 The downtown eastside is now ~*railtown*~. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...campaign=buffer
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May 3, 2014 07:24
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BTW, Vancouver is back to a seller's market. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/housing/greater-vancouver-housing-sector-closer-to-sellers-market/article18401398/
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May 3, 2014 07:29
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