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deadwing posted:How exactly will negotiations make a million 8 inch capacitive touch screens cheaper than a million 8 inch resistive screens? IIRC there's only one company left that still makes the touch screens the Gamepad uses and the company in question knows it, so they have huge leverage since you can't go with a competitor instead.
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Apr 30, 2014 21:33
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If capacitive were cheaper Nintendo would use it because above all else they cut corners on cost whenever possible.
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Apr 30, 2014 21:34
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greatn posted:If capacitive were cheaper Nintendo would use it because above all else they cut corners on cost whenever possible. It's cheaper now is the point, and continuing to get cheaper while resistive has flatlined. Also because of the differences in how it works and the fact that Wii U games have been designed around resistive touch it's too late to change.
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Apr 30, 2014 21:35
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greatn posted:If capacitive were cheaper Nintendo would use it because above all else they cut corners on cost whenever possible. Keep in mind what potentially comes with moving over to capacitive screens: More horsepower needed to account for extra contact points, potential for it to affect lag time between gamepad and console, things like that. While the cost may have been a bit cheaper, it may have been shuffled to other parts of the console to a point where either it affected its performance or in the end cost more. Not saying that's what happened but it's a possibility. You are probably right though but it's easy to make a quick conclusion without knowing the full decision process.
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Apr 30, 2014 21:38
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I think the point is more that newer technologies become cheaper over time at a rate and amount exponential compared to old ones. Its more that a resistive touchscreen is not going to get much cheaper, and so its harder for them to then discount the price of the machine overall because of it, whereas with a capitative screen they would (theoretically) be able to pass on savings in the technology in the form of price drops on the console. But of course that can then be offset by other costs incurred, as you say.
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Apr 30, 2014 21:42
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It was the same type of touch screen they used for all iterations of the DS and none of the engineers wanted to learn a new thing. Plus they can use the same factories. Think of the savings of not having to learn or do a new thing! That sounds pretty harsh/simplistic but honestly it's beyond established as a Nintendo pattern when it comes to hardware. Why use CDs, we already have a deal with the cartridge manufacturer you guys 
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Apr 30, 2014 21:48
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deadwing posted:How exactly will negotiations make a million 8 inch capacitive touch screens cheaper than a million 8 inch resistive screens? Because you're actually ordering the 8 million, rather than looking at some quotes from people who are likely desperate to wring the last bits of life out of existing and obsolete resistive screen fabrication facilities, and who couldn't really supply you long term. You might not have noticed, but resistive-to-save-costs smartphones and tablets barely even exist anymore, which is attributable to the fact that with large orders resistive displays simply aren't as cheap anymore. univbee posted:IIRC there's only one company left that still makes the touch screens the Gamepad uses and the company in question knows it, so they have huge leverage since you can't go with a competitor instead. Yes, the market for resistive touch screens in the general area of the gamepad's size is pretty much just Nintendo. There remains markets for very small resistive touch screens on devices (mostly embedded) where you couldn't get multitouch in the first place due to the size, and there's some market for much larger ones for operating certain other things.
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Apr 30, 2014 21:51
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univbee posted:...and the fact that Wii U games have been designed around resistive touch it's too late to change. Please explain how a game is designed around resistive touch that cannot be duplicated with capacitive touch. If they are redesigning the Gamepad with a "cheaper" capacitive screen, they can throw in a capacitive stylus like what I use with my iPad. Install Windows posted:You might not have noticed, but resistive-to-save-costs smartphones and tablets barely even exist anymore, which is attributable to the fact that with large orders resistive displays simply aren't as cheap anymore. Is there any evidence to this being because capacitive is cheaper? Or is the real reason that resistive is dogshit compared to capacitive on a phone, and with phones being thinner every iteration, resistive touch adds an additional unneeded layer? Astro7x fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Apr 30, 2014 |
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Apr 30, 2014 21:52
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Stux posted:I think the point is more that newer technologies become cheaper over time at a rate and amount exponential compared to old ones. Its more that a resistive touchscreen is not going to get much cheaper, and so its harder for them to then discount the price of the machine overall because of it, whereas with a capitative screen they would (theoretically) be able to pass on savings in the technology in the form of price drops on the console. Older technologies are cheaper now and get even cheaper over time, and Nintendo always, always looks for the option that allows them to make money on the venture. The DS and Wii were hugely profitable because of how cheaply they could make the hardware. Still, they absolutely should've gone with capacitive screens and worked out the kinks or ate some of the added cost.
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Apr 30, 2014 21:54
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Astro7x posted:Please explain how a game is designed around resistive touch that cannot be duplicated with capacitive touch. I'd bet money you could crash most Wii U games by multi-touching (kind of like the weird poo poo that happens in some console games if you press opposing directions simultaneously). The fact that you can touch the screen without exerting pressure and triggering the touch detection can affect the design of some games, too, especially as far as dragging things around are concerned. It's not as simple as transplanting in a capacitive screen, games would need to be reprogrammed.
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Apr 30, 2014 21:59
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XkyRauh posted:I dunno, going into the options and setting the items to "Strategic" worked pretty well--the only items that were available were Green Shells, Bananas, Mushrooms, the occasional single Red Shell, and the occasional rare Raincloud. If you were in 5th place or below, you pretty much just got Mushrooms, which closed the gap pretty well. Once I switched the items over that way, I never looked back. 
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Apr 30, 2014 22:01
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Louisgod posted:Older technologies are cheaper now and get even cheaper over time, and Nintendo always, always looks for the option that allows them to make money on the venture. The DS and Wii were hugely profitable because of how cheaply they could make the hardware. Still, they absolutely should've gone with capacitive screens and worked out the kinks or ate some of the added cost. They do but they wouldn't get the same level of price cut as you would on a newer piece of technology becoming cheaper, thats what people mean I think. It wouldn't have been cheaper from the outset though no, you're right. I was just trying to explain what people were getting at with the problems nintendo have with being able to take deep price cuts on the console when its packaged with a piece of hardware that will see shallower efficiency gains than a relatively new piece of hardware. Its similar to how the PS4 is going to have manufacturing costs drop quicker than the xbone due to using GDDR5, where as the xbone uses DDR3 which is well established and won't have such a steep drop off in manufacturing costs over its lifetime. Like you say though in that case the Wii u would've had significantly higher costs from the outset due to using a more expensive technology.
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Apr 30, 2014 22:04
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univbee posted:I'd bet money you could crash most Wii U games by multi-touching (kind of like the weird poo poo that happens in some console games if you press opposing directions simultaneously). The fact that you can touch the screen without exerting pressure and triggering the touch detection can affect the design of some games, too, especially as far as dragging things around are concerned. It's not as simple as transplanting in a capacitive screen, games would need to be reprogrammed. Ah, so as I thought, based on your own speculation.
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Apr 30, 2014 22:05
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Astro7x posted:Is there any evidence to this being because capacitive is cheaper? Or is the real reason that resistive is dogshit compared to capacitive on a phone, and with phones being thinner every iteration, resistive touch adds an additional unneeded layer? Take a look at the thick but cheap smartphones you can now buy for $20 at a convenience store on some prepaid plan. They used to use resistive touch on tiny screens, but the ones out these days have somewhat larger screens and they're all capacitive. Since these are the lowest end phones available that are still smartphones, it kinda implies that capacitive must be cheaper to put in them, because every other portion of the phone is lowest cost you can get that still works.
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Apr 30, 2014 22:10
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Apparently the last three Mario Kart 8 characters are Baby Rosalina, Pink-Gold Peach and Mii. I have no idea why the roster is so lazy this year, they have so many characters to pull from, gently caress even a drat goomba or something.
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Apr 30, 2014 22:44
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Just watched the Mario Kart 8 direct. Blue Shells can be destroyed by a Super Horn. 30 Racers including Mii's. Waluigi is playable. Post replays online and to Youtube directly using a Google Account. When I buy this game I can get either Pikmin 3 or New Super Mario Bros U! I was already sold but now I'm super sold. This is a system seller right here.  If you don't have a Wii-U, go get a refurbished deluxe model from Nintendo themselves for $200 plus about $25 shipping. It is worth it! Spectacle Rock fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Apr 30, 2014 |
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Apr 30, 2014 22:46
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Spectacle Rock posted:I was already sold but now I'm super sold. This is a system seller right here. 
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Apr 30, 2014 22:48
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Install Windows posted:Take a look at the thick but cheap smartphones you can now buy for $20 at a convenience store on some prepaid plan. They used to use resistive touch on tiny screens, but the ones out these days have somewhat larger screens and they're all capacitive. Since these are the lowest end phones available that are still smartphones, it kinda implies that capacitive must be cheaper to put in them, because every other portion of the phone is lowest cost you can get that still works. They still make resistive touch screen phones.. Up until a couple months ago I had a resistive touch screen phone.
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Apr 30, 2014 22:54
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Did you not watch that trailer? It looks like they really poured a lot of effort into making this the best Mario Kart to date. I admit I am biased as the following 4 games are the reasons I buy Nintendo consoles: *Mario Platformers *Legend of Zelda *Mario Kart *Smash Brothers So again, I'm highly biased, but to me Mario Kart 8 is the first "I must have this!" game I've seen for the Wii-U that is about to be released. My hype is justified. Also, Mario Kart is my favorite multiplayer game of all time so of course I want to play it 
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Apr 30, 2014 22:55
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Spectacle Rock posted:Did you not watch that trailer? It looks like they really poured a lot of effort into making this the best Mario Kart to date. I admit I am biased as the following 4 games are the reasons I buy Nintendo consoles: You're in the wrong thread man, this is the "Nintendo is doomed" thread. The "Wii U for hopeful people" thread is thataway: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3507212&pagenumber=923#lastpost
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Apr 30, 2014 22:56
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I agree with him, the let's throw money into a furnace side of me makes me wanna buy that bundle, but the sensible side says wait a bit. Granted MK8 will probably never drop in price used or not, but the console is bound to, as much as I love Mario Kart, I don't love it enough to spend 300 dollars.
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Apr 30, 2014 22:58
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I could not physically bring myself to watch more than a couple minutes of that trailer.
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Apr 30, 2014 22:58
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Install Windows posted:Yes, the market for resistive touch screens in the general area of the gamepad's size is pretty much just Nintendo. There remains markets for very small resistive touch screens on devices (mostly embedded) where you couldn't get multitouch in the first place due to the size, and there's some market for much larger ones for operating certain other things. In my company we order shittons of resistive touch devices the size of the Wii U's screen or bigger. Sign and label printing devices and POS machines are the big one. Basically every retail POS that I've ever come across uses a resistive monitor.
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Apr 30, 2014 23:23
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deadwing posted:In my company we order shittons of resistive touch devices the size of the Wii U's screen or bigger. Sign and label printing devices and POS machines are the big one. Basically every retail POS that I've ever come across uses a resistive monitor. Most POS systems are way bigger than 6.2 inch like the Wii U Gamepad, those would be the much larger ones I mentioned.
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Apr 30, 2014 23:31
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Spectacle Rock posted:Did you not watch that trailer? It looks like they really poured a lot of effort into making this the best Mario Kart to date. I admit I am biased as the following 4 games are the reasons I buy Nintendo consoles: They poured a lot of effort into recycling the race track maps for use as battle arenas.
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Apr 30, 2014 23:42
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Spectacle Rock posted:Did you not watch that trailer? It looks like they really poured a lot of effort into making this the best Mario Kart to date. I admit I am biased as the following 4 games are the reasons I buy Nintendo consoles: I'm glad you're happy playing prettier versions of the same four games since the N64, but when you've already played them before, and preferred the Gamecube ones because they stopped giving a poo poo when the Wii became a hit with regular people, then it's not going to cut it. They could have tried to make the Wii U's equivalent of Metroid Prime, with a talented western developer and a dormant IP, but that involves risk. Why would you do that instead of just releasing the same four guaranteed hits over and over again?
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Apr 30, 2014 23:56
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That loving Sned posted:They could have tried to make the Wii U's equivalent of Metroid Prime, with a talented western developer and a dormant IP, but that involves risk. Why would you do that instead of just releasing the same four guaranteed hits over and over again? Unfortunately Ninja Theory is only making mobile games for the foreseeable future so they can't go to those guys with a dormant IP to revive.
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May 1, 2014 00:16
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Install Windows posted:Most POS systems are way bigger than 6.2 inch like the Wii U Gamepad, those would be the much larger ones I mentioned. Just stop. Everything you are saying is your own speculation.
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May 1, 2014 00:47
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Install Windows posted:Most POS systems are way bigger than 6.2 inch like the Wii U Gamepad, those would be the much larger ones I mentioned. It sure took me quite a while to find a resistive touch device roughly the same size as the Gamepad's screen.  It's a brand new (approx 2 months old) Coke machine with a resistive keypad, the buttons aren't physical and if you press the four and six at the same time you get the five. e: cropped for less huge deadwing fucked around with this message at 01:07 on May 1, 2014 |
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May 1, 2014 01:03
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deadwing posted:It sure took me quite a while to find a resistive touch device roughly the same size as the Gamepad's screen. I don't really have a dog in this fight but you're a loving idiot if you think a printed resistive touchpad is somehow a manufacturing equivelant to a resistive touchscreen. Immensely stupid.
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May 1, 2014 01:09
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deadwing posted:It sure took me quite a while to find a resistive touch device roughly the same size as the Gamepad's screen. That's not a touchscreen. If you put that over a display, it would likely end up unacceptably blurring the light output.
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May 1, 2014 01:09
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Crackbone posted:I don't really have a dog in this fight but you're a loving idiot if you think a pre-printed resistive touchpad is somehow a manufacturing equivelant to a resistive touchscreen. It'll likely be at a lower resolution than the Wii U's touchscreen but it works in a similar way, since a resistive touchscreen is just an overlay over a normal screen. E: And it's not pre-printed, the printing is behind the area that you touch by a solid half centimeter or so, you can't tell from the picture. deadwing fucked around with this message at 01:19 on May 1, 2014 |
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May 1, 2014 01:12
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Just to recap, according to the original logic of this argument... All cheap cell phones I personally see use X, so they must be cheaper than using Y. Wii U uses Y. Wii U is using outdated technology that is more expensive.
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May 1, 2014 01:35
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Astro7x posted:Just to recap, according to the original logic of this argument... I don't think we really need to drag algebra into this but let's just say the Wii U uses outdated technology yet still has incredible games like Zombi U and
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May 1, 2014 01:36
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Astro7x posted:Just to recap, according to the original logic of this argument... While I was at the store (that also has the neato soda machine), I checked the pre-paid cell phones and none of them had touch screens at all, therefore touch screens are ridiculously expensive and the touch screen is obviously why the Wii U is so expensive.
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May 1, 2014 01:41
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Astro7x posted:Just stop. Everything you are saying is your own speculation. Stop talking to fishmech.
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May 1, 2014 02:03
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Viewtiful Jew posted:Unfortunately Ninja Theory is only making mobile games for the foreseeable future. A fitting punishment.
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May 1, 2014 03:18
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Astro7x posted:Yeah, the tracks on a loop thing seems incredibly lame. The omissions of a proper battle arena is a huge oversight. I think a lot of that depends on what tracks they choose and how they change them. I'll wait and see till we get more info because the Moo Moo Meadows type track has always been one of the most basic tracks in the series. Battle mode on something like Yoshi's Valley N64 could be insane. It looks like the tracks in this one are going to be more complex and have lots of branching or side paths you can take so there might be a bunch of new tracks that make good battle mode stages too. Anyway, I'm pretty excited for this. The new stages look really cool and it looks like the retro stages have been updated so much that they're practically new stages altogether. Also the game looks gorgeous and most of the soundtrack sounds really good. The free game download is another really nice bonus 
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May 1, 2014 03:49
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If you need a Mario Kart done right on modern consoles just get Sonic Racing Allstars Transformed.
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May 1, 2014 04:07
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Vintersorg posted:If you need a Mario Kart done right on modern consoles just get Sonic Racing Allstars Transformed. Completely different beast from a Mario Kart, the more technical racing and higher difficulty reminds me more of F-Zero than Mario Kart, honestly.
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May 1, 2014 04:12
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