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Wolpertinger posted:you'd never remotely guess that he's mormon from pretty much anything at all in his books other than 'no real world cussing' and 'no on screen sex' which isn't exactly unique to mormon authors or even that big of a deal. Let's be honest, the latter would improve more SFF books than it would spoil.
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May 1, 2014 17:27
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Peel posted:Let's be honest, the latter would improve more SFF books than it would spoil.
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May 1, 2014 17:44
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Peel posted:Let's be honest, the latter would improve more SFF books than it would spoil. Hamilton begs to differ. Cardiovorax posted:I guess we just felt differently, then. For me, the quality of the final two books dropped off majorly because I thought those were hitting all the clichés. While the first book still had Vin filling the role of "blank slate teenage kid discovered to have Special Magical Powers" it was, in my opinion, redeemed by the plot being about Kelsier's personal revenge, history and motivations, being as he was a character with actual personality, background and reasons to do what he did besides it just sorta falling into his lap. I was perfectly content with not continuing with the Mistborn saga after the first, and it seems like a good decision based this. Sanderson killed off the wrong character in Mistborn. coyo7e posted:As was mentioned, he's making poo poo up but it is a well-established naming practise in many martial arts. This always annoyed me with Jordan, since it is so much bull-poo poo and really shows he had no concept of weapon-based fighting. Or he just wanted something to sound cool. I did a weapon-based martial art for 10+ years and our strikes were basically trimmed down to a numbering system, simply as a way to categorize different strikes and then you combined them to various patterns combined with footwork, timing and range. You almost never see this in fantasy literature, sin5ce all these concepts are rather abstract and won't make any sense to anyone not having done martial arts for a number of years.
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May 1, 2014 19:10
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Victorkm posted:That sounds awful and depressing. Mark Lawrence is also boasting that his series is going to be make it onto TV, as well. So I guess audiences are really hungry for uncomfortable, heavy-handed nihilism?
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May 1, 2014 20:16
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anathenema posted:Mark Lawrence is also boasting that his series is going to be make it onto TV, as well. So I guess audiences are really hungry for uncomfortable, heavy-handed nihilism? Miserable people enjoy miserable things. Nothing new here.
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May 1, 2014 20:43
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Cardiac posted:This always annoyed me with Jordan, since it is so much bull-poo poo and really shows he had no concept of weapon-based fighting. Or he just wanted something to sound cool. You're talking about fencing, whereas Jordan's sword play is more analogous to the Oriental broadsword. Japanese swordmasters do give those kind of names to strikes, attitudes and stances.
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May 1, 2014 22:44
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anathenema posted:Mark Lawrence is also boasting that his series is going to be make it onto TV, as well. So I guess audiences are really hungry for uncomfortable, heavy-handed nihilism? I think it's more that TV networks are hungry for the next Game of Thrones.
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May 1, 2014 22:47
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True, but I'd assume they'd pick a book where something happens. The Magicians was just a boring rear end book. Other than the apple faced guy showing up, it was basically the GRIMDARK version of "Boy, life is hell, ennui".
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May 1, 2014 22:52
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Jedit posted:You're talking about fencing, whereas Jordan's sword play is more analogous to the Oriental broadsword. Japanese swordmasters do give those kind of names to strikes, attitudes and stances. Actually, it's more typical of Chinese martial arts to use the really flowery names instead of Japanese, but the larger point still stands.
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May 1, 2014 23:40
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:True, but I'd assume they'd pick a book where something happens.
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May 2, 2014 00:17
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:The Magicians was just a boring rear end book. Other than the apple faced guy showing up, it was basically the GRIMDARK version of "Boy, life is hell, ennui". It's actually a pretty smart self-contained book about depression. Then the publisher-mandated sequel came along and farrrrrttttted all over what Grossman had achieved with book 1 
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May 2, 2014 00:58
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Cardiac posted:Hamilton begs to differ. You kinda gotta read Mistborn book 2/3 if you ever plan on reading any of the other two? three? mistborn series he plans on writing, who will be in the distant future and have almost no repeating characters. I'm kind of surprised at how i'm apparently in the minority on liking Mistborn 2/3. Hell, the plot twist at the end of 3 with Sazed being the hero of ages completely blindsided me, even though it was foreshadowed subtly for most of the series. Plus, Mistborn book 3 is still kinda important if you care about the bigger meta-plot that links all his books - Hell, there's a very tiny, easily missable cameo of a side character from Mistborn (not Hoid) in Stormlight, though the meta-plot going on that links all his series is never going to require you to read any previous books of his, or even notice it, until the very last book series he's going to write in this universe which links them all together. However, there's a bit of entertainment reading through all his books and seeing all the little tidbits that link all his books together. Hoid, for one - a character that shows up in every single one of his books, minus Wheel of Time, Alcatraz, Rithmatist, and Legion, since they're all in a different 'universe'. He's Wit in Stormlight, he's the Fool that betrayed Shai in Emperor's Soul, In Mistborn book 1, he was one of Kelsier's informants, in book 2 he was the leader of a group of Terris refugees, and was the one who stole the other one of the beads that create Mistborn, in book 3 he was the informant that Vin was spooked by for some unknown reason and decided to not talk to, in Alloy of Law he was a beggar at the wedding, in Warbreaker he was the storyteller named Hoid (which is the name people picked to refer to him), and so on. Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 06:48 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 06:03
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Jedit posted:You're talking about fencing, whereas Jordan's sword play is more analogous to the Oriental broadsword. Japanese swordmasters do give those kind of names to strikes, attitudes and stances. Nope, Filipinos give no poo poo about flowery names. Wolpertinger posted:You kinda gotta read Mistborn book 2/3 if you ever plan on reading any of the other two? three? mistborn series he plans on writing, who will be in the distant future and have almost no repeating characters. I'm kind of surprised at how i'm apparently in the minority on liking Mistborn 2/3. Hell, the plot twist at the end of 3 with Sazed being the hero of ages completely blindsided me, but it was foreshadowed subtly for most of the series. So Mistborn is linked to Stormlight/Way of Kings. Good, another reason not to read any more of either series. To be fair, I think my main problem with Sanderson is that I find his characters to be pretty bland. And of course, the fighting scenes where I get the mental image of Sanderson rolling a dice to see what happens next. His world building is good and imaginative, but in the end I just feel bored reading his books. With the exception of WoT, which he did very well.
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May 2, 2014 06:26
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Cardiac posted:Nope, Filipinos give no poo poo about flowery names. Linked in the loosest possible sense in that a minor side character passes through briefly in an interlude and is not directly named, but only recognizable by appearance and mannerisms. Not in actual plot. They're just in the same universe. I'm seriously amazed that there's this much dislike for Mistborn. It wasn't a masterpiece or anything but it was a fun read. It's funny, though, how my reaction is pretty much the opposite of many here - I was kinda losing interest by the end of Mistborn book 1 but 2 and 3 got me interested again. Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 06:50 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 06:30
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Cardiac posted:This always annoyed me with Jordan, since it is so much bull-poo poo and really shows he had no concept of weapon-based fighting. Or he just wanted something to sound cool. More comprehensible descriptions would be better if done right. I find Martin's sword fight descriptions a lot more visceral and exciting, even if they're crap to those guys who try to recreate medieval weapons fighting accurately. Martial arts I've engaged in also use pretty utilitarian names (I do non-weapons based stuff, though), maybe vaguely descriptive of reality, but simple (triangle chokes, arm bars, what-have-you). Well, I'm excluding a subset of BJJ practitioners who give names to positions like 'crackhead control' and 'the truck', but never mind them.
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May 2, 2014 07:16
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Wolpertinger posted:Linked in the loosest possible sense in that a minor side character passes through briefly in an interlude and is not directly named, but only recognizable by appearance and mannerisms. Not in actual plot. They're just in the same universe. I'm seriously amazed that there's this much dislike for Mistborn. It wasn't a masterpiece or anything but it was a fun read. It's funny, though, how my reaction is pretty much the opposite of many here - I was kinda losing interest by the end of Mistborn book 1 but 2 and 3 got me interested again. I can say, though, that I really don't care much for Branderson's whole metaplot thing. It seems like a forced and contrived way to rope fans of one series into other stuff he has written and mostly doesn't influence anything that happens meaningfully except in a token way.
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May 2, 2014 09:52
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Cardiovorax posted:No accounting for taste and such. It's not even really that I disliked it, I just thought that compared to the first book, nothing in the latter two really stood out or gripped me. Branderson's writing is nothing if not inoffensive. They were very... by the numbers, I guess. Maybe it's just because I was expecting a different kind of story after the first book, which I didn't even realize was part of a trilogy for the longest time. It just felt so perfectly self-contained. Fair enough about tastes. I guess I never really felt like I knew Kelsier enough to think of him as anything other than a typical dashing charismatic rogue guy, especially when Vin herself didn't really know him all that well either, so I never was particularly attached to him. And the whole eleventh metal reveal ended up almost being an anticlimax as it was, for how much it was built up, with it being almost contrived that it ended up being useful in some extremely loose way anyway. It's like discovering at the last moment that you have the power to magically conjure peanut butter, and lo and behold the villain coincidentally is allergic to peanuts. It's one thing if you have a useless-seeming ability that you figure out how to use with a lot of thought and cleverness, but the literally only possible use for it just falls into her lap the moment she discovers that same ability. And then most likely nobody in the whole universe ever finds a reason to use it ever again. I don't know so much about the metaplot being a token influence used to rope in fans though - it has a lot of influence and in fact is the indirect (or even occasionally direct) cause of conflict in most of his books, or at least the reason how those worlds came to be as they are - it's essentially a shared creation myth. For the most part the fact that it's so behind the scenes is just because he doesn't want to make it so you have to read all of his other books to understand any new book he writes, which is why he draws so little attention to it himself. The only reason people know as much as they do about it is mostly rabid fans pestering him at interviews, and the same fans scouring over the notes he wrote while writing books that he's released, and then methodically scouring over all these little tidbits he's released over almost ten years and piecing it together into a theory that they then use to bombard him with even more specific questions in interviews. But reading some of the stuff relating to his metaplot, it can be sort of neat to see that there's pieces a bigger plot being set up for a future series, as well as the prequel series that shows his 'creation myth' up close instead of teasing it. The great big greek drama with all his gods that most of the metaplot involves is often the actual setup for a lot of the conflicts in his books, and he's apparently been writing these books from the beginning with that metaplot in mind, even if it isn't completely obvious - for example, (Elantris spoiler) Odium, from Way of Kings, killed Aona and Skai, the two gods on the world of Elantris. Gods leave their power behind when they die, so Elantris is like some version of the Well of Ascension or the Pits of Hathsin or the Mists. He didn't cause the earthquake that broke Elantris, however. Emperor's Soul extremely far away in the same world, too, and you can see some parallels in the way soul stamps work because of the similar source. The Elantris world apparently has a ton of different variations of magic that involves language of some sort, written, verbal, or physical, that's also tied to location and culture (just like Elantris). It's sort of funny, I think the Elantris world is potentially more interesting than Mistborn's world, even though Elantris was one of his earliest, and sloppiest, works. I hope he revisits it again in more than just Emperor's Soul. There's no guarantee that it will pan out as cleanly as he hopes though - for all we know the story being built up with the metaplot could fail spectacularly and end up being a convoluted pointless mess, but in the mean time it's just a fun little thing to Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 11:55 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 11:17
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coyo7e posted:But it's got tons of debauchery. And you gotta outdo GoT. And someone could claim that it's revisionist Harry Potter. Much more likely to be called a modern Narnia, I think. Cardiovorax posted:
Stephen King did the same thing with many of his books and the Dark Tower series. The connections are mostly not important plot or thematic points (with the exception of 'The Talisman' and its sequel, Black House) but do make for a rewarding little nugget for long-term fans.
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May 2, 2014 14:09
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For those of us who like SFWA drama, John C. Wright of 'The Golden Age' and 'is a loon' fame has quit. I'd quote highlights but the highlights are pretty much everything he said. The president is unconvinced.
Peel fucked around with this message at 17:25 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 17:17
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Peel posted:For those of us who like SFWA drama, John C. Wright of 'The Golden Age' and 'is a loon' fame has quit. I'd quote highlights but the highlights are pretty much everything he said. The president is unconvinced. I wondered who they were talking about on twitter yesterday
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May 2, 2014 17:28
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Peel posted:For those of us who like SFWA drama, John C. Wright of 'The Golden Age' and 'is a loon' fame has quit. I'd quote highlights but the highlights are pretty much everything he said. The president is unconvinced. That dude is about one acid trip away from going full Phillip K. Dick on us, except with a right-wing twist.
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May 2, 2014 17:35
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PKD thought communists were trying to take over the SFWA so I'm not sure that'd be a twist as such.
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May 2, 2014 17:40
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That dude is about one acid trip away from going full Phillip K. Dick on us, except with a right-wing twist. PKD at the very least knew that something was hosed up in his brain and he didn't think like normal people. I'm not sure Wright has that level of self-awareness.
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May 2, 2014 18:15
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Oh, John C. Wright, you could've been a contender if you didn't handpick your political beliefs to be as repulsive as possible.  I think the only mountains he has left to climb from here are holocaust denial and support for absolute monarchy.
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May 2, 2014 18:49
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Hobnob posted:PKD at the very least knew that something was hosed up in his brain and he didn't think like normal people. I'm not sure Wright has that level of self-awareness. Yeah, that's a fair point. Wright just thinks his literal visions of the Virgin Mary, etc., were actual manifestations of the actual Virgin Mary speaking directly to him. Clark Nova posted:Oh, John C. Wright, you could've been a contender if you didn't handpick your political beliefs to be as repulsive as possible. quote:The modern poor man is in a much more favorable legal situation, but not a more favorable real-life situation as the serf or slave. Perhaps his situation is worse, because he lacks a personal relationship with his lord or owner: the modern welfare-serf must beg of the anonymous, cold-faced and impersonal institutions what he once sat before the gates of the rich man to beg of him. Was the most apropos quote I could find in his journal. http://www.scifiwright.com/2014/02/modern-fuedalism/
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May 2, 2014 18:57
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House Louse posted:Re: Beowulf. The author really is dead. Which translation do you prefer? I read Heaney's but didn't think it was that good, and some of his word choices were very Latinate and didn't fit the Germanic setting at all. Didn't really mind the Irish ones though. I quite like the Seamus Heaney translation because I think it sounds nice when read aloud, and I like its rhythm. But I can't say that I have much to compare it to -- the only other translation I have read is whatever one was in our Norton anthology in college. The only reason I even ever revisited Beowulf after school at all was because Heaney came out with his translation. Wolpertinger posted:I'm seriously amazed that there's this much dislike for Mistborn. It wasn't a masterpiece or anything but it was a fun read. It's funny, though, how my reaction is pretty much the opposite of many here - I was kinda losing interest by the end of Mistborn book 1 but 2 and 3 got me interested again. I liked the Mistborn series, but not because they are really well-written or really great books, but as you say, they were a fun read. But I can actually easily see why people wouldn't care for them, because in the end I can't really point to anything that was really great about them. Honestly, my favorite part about the books were the little interludes at the beginning of chapters that would slowly reveal to you the history of that world from different prespectives. I personally related pretty well to the character of Vin so I never lost interest in her story, but if you didn't (and especially if you expected Kelsier to be the main character from the beginning), then I could see quickly losing interest. One of the things I found interesting about the Vin/Elend relationship, though, was that after the first book, Elend became fairly equivalent to what a typical female love interest would be like in many stories, complete with having him endangered so that the hero must come rescue him. If the genders were reversed, with Vin as a man and Elend as a woman, I wonder if anyone would even notice that the Elend character was bland. Lowly fucked around with this message at 19:29 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 18:59
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Wolpertinger posted:Fair enough about tastes. I guess I never really felt like I knew Kelsier enough to think of him as anything other than a typical dashing charismatic rogue guy, especially when Vin herself didn't really know him all that well either, so I never was particularly attached to him. And the whole eleventh metal reveal ended up almost being an anticlimax as it was, for how much it was built up, with it being almost contrived that it ended up being useful in some extremely loose way anyway. It's like discovering at the last moment that you have the power to magically conjure peanut butter, and lo and behold the villain coincidentally is allergic to peanuts. It's one thing if you have a useless-seeming ability that you figure out how to use with a lot of thought and cleverness, but the literally only possible use for it just falls into her lap the moment she discovers that same ability. And then most likely nobody in the whole universe ever finds a reason to use it ever again. I agree that the ending was pretty weak, though. Not only did the whole Eleventh Metal plotline come basically to nothing, the primary antagonist was defeated by, who else, Vin doing something that is explicitly described as impossible at least half a dozen times throughout the book, because she's apparently just that drat special of a snowflake. Compared to Kelsier's big sacrifice it was pure anticlimax. Peel posted:For those of us who like SFWA drama, John C. Wright of 'The Golden Age' and 'is a loon' fame has quit. I'd quote highlights but the highlights are pretty much everything he said. The president is unconvinced.
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May 2, 2014 19:02
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I really enjoyed the tone and amount of sci-fi tech stuff in The Forever War and found Revelation Space to be overly complicated. Would Leviathan Wakes be a good pick for me or is there something else I might be into? I'm pretty new to this whole genre.
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May 3, 2014 04:14
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holocaust bloopers posted:I really enjoyed the tone and amount of sci-fi tech stuff in The Forever War and found Revelation Space to be overly complicated. You'll be fine in Leviathan Wakes.
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May 3, 2014 04:50
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Cardiovorax posted:I agree that the ending was pretty weak, though. Not only did the whole Eleventh Metal plotline come basically to nothing, the primary antagonist was defeated by, who else, Vin doing something that is explicitly described as impossible at least half a dozen times throughout the book, because she's apparently just that drat special of a snowflake. Compared to Kelsier's big sacrifice it was pure anticlimax. Yeah but remember, and I'm not trying to make apologies for the story, but the reason Vin was able to do what she did was specifically due to her being manipulated by Ruin. It's an interesting move by Sanderson. I mean if you wanted to you could argue that we as readers never actually met the real Kelsier. His actions from that point, in shaping the resistance against The Lord Ruler as well as training Vin, are all suspiciously in line with Ruin's ultimate objectives. I don't know if it actually needs to be spoiled in this thread, but better CIA document than sorry, right?
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May 3, 2014 05:24
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Man, Sci-fi release dates are really boom/bust. Looks like my current set of pre orders includes: May 20th: Severed Streets, Paul Cornell (sequel to London Falling) May 27: Skin Game, Jim Butcher June 3: On the Steel Breeze, Alastair Reynolds June 17: Cibola Burn, James S. A. Corey July 1: Rhesus Chart, Charles Stross July 1: Tower Lord, Anthony Ryan July 15: Causal Angel, Hannu Rajaniemi August 5: Widow's House, Daniel Abraham August 5: Magician's Land, Lev Grossman ... October 7: Dark Defiles, Richard Morgan October 7: Foxglove Summer, Ben Aaronovich Meanwhile I haven't bought a thing since Words of Radiance, and before that was Republic of Thieves or something. Do publishers assume more people read in summertime or something? Velius fucked around with this message at 12:13 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 11:57
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Congratulations General Battuta! I'll be sure to buy your book!  Anyway, I'm looking to get back into reading SFF, pretty much burned out about two years ago. Last thing I read in the genre was WOR and it didn't impress me much. I want to read something with a tighter focus on the characters, less on the plot. If the mechanics of the world are left unexplained even better. Hmm, I enjoy most of what Patricia McKillip wrote, so the fairy-tale approach is good. Catherynne Valente is a great author but I'm looking for something a bit more upbeat. Between the Orphan's Tales and Deathless... yeah. Not in the mood. Hell, I'm open to the epic stuff if it's new or obscure and competently written. I'm pretty sure I read the most well known series in fantasy so anything new would be great. On the sci fi side I'm a bit behind. Leviathan Wakes was talked about in here for a good while so I'll probably check it out. Any new mil sci fi out? edit: oh yeah! I'd like to read something with that whole building up theme going. Revitalizing a Country, establishing a colony, etc etc. Those are always entertaining. Kellanved fucked around with this message at 14:11 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 14:00
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Kellanved posted:Congratulations General Battuta! I'll be sure to buy your book! Deathless I get, but I remember Orphan's Tales being pretty upbeat. It goes to some dark places, sure, but there's almost always light at the end of the tunnel, and that light is rarely too far away. Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 14:40 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 14:38
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Velius posted:Man, Sci-fi release dates are really boom/bust. Looks like my current set of pre orders includes: men.txt Kellanved posted:Congratulations General Battuta! I'll be sure to buy your book! I thought The Orphan's Tales ended really happily! But Deathless was certainly a tough read. If I can go way out on a limb, I'd suggest Queen of Attolia by Megan Whalen Turner. It's a quick, simply written book that you could safely give to an eight-year-old, but it's extraordinarily clever and it has no time for standard fantasy cliches. It's a story about a political operative who falls into the wrong hands. Alternately, try Ancillary Justice because everyone loves it and you can have a lot of conversations.
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May 3, 2014 16:05
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Prop Wash posted:Yeah but remember, and I'm not trying to make apologies for the story, but the reason Vin was able to do what she did was specifically due to her being manipulated by Ruin. It's an interesting move by Sanderson. I mean if you wanted to you could argue that we as readers never actually met the real Kelsier. His actions from that point, in shaping the resistance against The Lord Ruler as well as training Vin, are all suspiciously in line with Ruin's ultimate objectives.
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May 3, 2014 16:17
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Woohoo! Jeff Strand just tweeted a teaser for the sequel to Wolf Hunt, coming in October! My day is made! 
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May 3, 2014 21:26
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Kellanved posted:edit: oh yeah! I'd like to read something with that whole building up theme going. Revitalizing a Country, establishing a colony, etc etc. Those are always entertaining. Give The Goblin Emperor a shot - fun read, not building up a country so much as building up political control over a country unexpectedly inherited, but I think it might scratch the itch.
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May 3, 2014 22:18
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Velius posted:Man, Sci-fi release dates are really boom/bust. Looks like my current set of pre orders includes: I think the only things on the Locus Forthcoming list ( http://www.locusmag.com/Resources/ForthcomingBooks.html ) that I'm excited about are: Jemisin, N. K. • The Fifth Season • (Orbit US, tpb) Nix, Garth • Clariel: The Lost Abhorsen • (HarperCollins, nvl-ya, hc) Elliott, Kate • The Black Wolves • (Little, Brown UK/Orbit) (I didn't even know there was a new Kate Elliott coming out until I just now checked!)
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May 3, 2014 23:02
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fritz posted:Elliott, Kate • The Black Wolves • (Little, Brown UK/Orbit) I hadn't heard anything either - now will she ever follow up crossroads? I love crossroads.
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May 3, 2014 23:08
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Kellanved posted:edit: oh yeah! I'd like to read something with that whole building up theme going. Revitalizing a Country, establishing a colony, etc etc. Those are always entertaining. Jules Verne's The Mysterious Island is pretty much Minecraft: The Book in the best way possible. Just get a new, non-poo poo translation. Goblin Emperor is great. Daughter of the Empire is good in a similar vein of "maneuvering your small power faction into survival against tremendous odds".
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May 3, 2014 23:24
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