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Alter Ego posted:Yeah, the morning show is run by "reasonable" conservative Joe Scarborough. That's why. Oh I know. The show is an utter travesty is so many levels. Just thought I would point out another fact that makes the "liberal media" myth fall flat on it's face.
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May 2, 2014 15:35
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zoux posted:You have any sort of data to back this up or are you just saying words. No, you see if we funnel 30% of current college students into trades then they can get all of those magically high wages because:
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May 2, 2014 15:41
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Cimber posted:Try finding skilled pipefitters and welders these days. Its not easy. Those who do exist command high wages. Skilled labor is shrinking, yes, because people don't want to go into it. Many people go to college who probably should not. Trade has become a dirty word. Weird, your personal anecdote is contradicted by the FRED data showing overall wages have had a slower rate of growth since 2008 and flatlined this year, and for the construction industry (where your pipe fitters would be located) wages have actually fallen this year. http://m.research.stlouisfed.org/fred/ Gosh I wonder which is accurate, your little story or nation wide data sets professionally collected for almost a century
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May 2, 2014 15:41
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ratbert90 posted:Yes, I have significant experience with embedded linux/hardware and my specialty is board bring up. In that sense you probably have to be where the hardware is manufactured so that you're not shipping a test unit back and forth overseas with a list of issues, right? New Zealand actually has a few electronics manufacturers (or at least assembly plants) so you might want to consider that guy's offer if you're serious about leaving. My SO is graduating with a Ph. D in experimental neuroscience and pharmacology, with her work so far being focused on ways to deliver HIV meds to brain tissue. I like to think that's going to be desirable, but who the hell knows. I'm sticking with my career in AML/CTF corporate compliance so my big international corporation employer can theoretically arrange a move to any of a bunch of places. We're both hopeless idealists in thinking our fields are growing. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 15:54 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 15:42
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Fried Chicken posted:Weird, your personal anecdote is contradicted by the FRED data showing overall wages have had a slower rate of growth since 2008 and flatlined this year, and for the construction industry (where your pipe fitters would be located) wages have actually fallen this year. No he's right, I tried finding skilled pipefitters and there weren't any no matter where I looked.
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May 2, 2014 15:45
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zoux posted:No he's right, I tried finding skilled pipefitters and there weren't any no matter where I looked. I just stuck my head out the window and yelled "pipefitters TO ME" and nobody came running. He's right.
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May 2, 2014 15:47
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menino posted:I just stuck my head out the window and yelled "pipefitters TO ME" and nobody came running. He's right. I did find, however, piles upon piles of communications majors trapped under a single wrench each, the weight of which they were unwilling to lift.
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May 2, 2014 15:50
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Fried Chicken posted:Weird, your personal anecdote is contradicted by the FRED data showing overall wages have had a slower rate of growth since 2008 and flatlined this year, and for the construction industry (where your pipe fitters would be located) wages have actually fallen this year. oh yeah? http://m.research.stlouisfed.org/fred/series.php?sid=CEU4000000003&cid=32314
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May 2, 2014 15:50
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Cimber posted:oh yeah? That's literally barely keeping up with inflation.
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May 2, 2014 15:55
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Necc0 posted:Somehow I had a feeling conservatives wouldn't care about these issues until the UE number dropped when it was inconvenient for them. To be fair, in 2009 when the economy was collapsing it was the D&D Democrats (myself included) who kept pointing out how things were even worse because of those who dropped out of the labor market.
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May 2, 2014 15:56
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Cimber posted:oh yeah? That's an identical trendline to all other wages. Whoops my bad it's actually a slower rater of growth than all average wages. http://m.research.stlouisfed.org/fred/series.php?sid=CES0500000003&cid=32306
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May 2, 2014 15:57
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zoux posted:That's an identical trendline to all other wages. actually, no. Here is the percentage change of your data: http://m.research.stlouisfed.org/fred/series.php?sid=CES0500000003&show=chart&range=5yrs&units=pch and the percentage change of my example: http://m.research.stlouisfed.org/fred/series.php?sid=CEU4000000003&show=chart&range=5yrs&units=pch and the CPI changes: http://m.research.stlouisfed.org/fred/series.php?sid=CPIAUCSL&show=chart&range=5yrs&units=pch Cimber fucked around with this message at 16:02 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 16:00
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Cimber posted:oh yeah? So you managed to find a completely different industry than we are talking about (pipe fitters are construction not trade transportation and utilities) that bucks the overall trend of wages stagnant or decreasing and this some how refutes the fact that overall wages are stagnant or decreasing and construction saw a drop this year? Never mind that the rate of increase you did manage to find barely keeps pace wit cost of living, so purchasing power remains stagnant. I'll agree with the larger point that we need to stop stigmatizing the "dirty jobs" and encourage a return to trade focus because those are the jobs that keep society from falling apart. But the idea that their wages are climbing and they are a large source of good paying jobs just isn't true. We should make it so it is, but it isn't now.
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May 2, 2014 16:04
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Does anyone else follow CSPAN on facebook? It's like being in some right wing trolling master class. Every day I wake up, get my morning coffee, and read CSPAN on facebook, and they just ask the most perfect questions to get the crazies riled up. It's beautiful. Today it was: "Is the Benghazi investigation important to you? Why?"
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May 2, 2014 16:05
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Fried Chicken posted:So you managed to find a completely different industry than we are talking about (pipe fitters are construction not trade transportation and utilities) that bucks the overall trend of wages stagnant or decreasing and this some how refutes the fact that overall wages are stagnant or decreasing and construction saw a drop this year? Never mind that the rate of increase you did manage to find barely keeps pace wit cost of living, so purchasing power remains stagnant. i'm actually not putting a lot of effort into this, and I apologize. My wife and I are going to a wedding tonight and I'm slacking on the preparation. However my overall point remains. Non college education has dramatically fallen in the past few years as everyone things getting rich will come from getting a college degree. So now there is a glut of people who have degrees and not enough white collar jobs to support them. Meanwhile, lots of skilled labor jobs are starting to go unfulfilled.
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May 2, 2014 16:07
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I am hoping that Hindu group gets a statue of Ganesh installed, personally. A Kal statue would be incredible.
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May 2, 2014 16:11
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computer parts posted:Jesus does at the very least, I think Mohammed just chills in Heaven.
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May 2, 2014 16:18
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Cimber posted:i'm actually not putting a lot of effort into this, and I apologize. You don't say! I'm so shocked! I thought you were giving 110%! What's your point? Do you think anyone here thinks we don't need people with trade skills? The thing about trades, though, is that they have a career length that's bounded by a person's physical health in a way that college-educated knowledge workers really aren't. So, no matter what, even if we did have more people in the trades, we'd still have an issue eventually with labor force participation. Labor participation isn't going down because the skills aren't there. It's going down because the jobs aren't there which is linked to the fact that people don't have money due to stagnant wages overall. Your point about trade skills is taken, has been accepted here, and will continue to be accepted here. However, it's completely irrelevant to this discussion. You should probably get to that wedding.
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May 2, 2014 16:19
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Cimber posted:i'm actually not putting a lot of effort into this, and I apologize. My wife and I are going to a wedding tonight and I'm slacking on the preparation. Well on these points college (and in particular law school, which is more the "I'll have a great job" myth than college in general) admissions are dropping. And labor workers stand to be in shortfall but a) data suggests we aren't at the point of liftoff from demand just yet and b) immigration reform could swing that in reverse (see the UK trade and construction market swing following the EU immigration treaties) Have fun at your wedding! Banks being banks, threatening that investigating them could blow up the economy http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-05-02/banks-take-the-economy-hostage Oh, and we are still 120k jobs away from having recovered all the jobs we need from the recession
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May 2, 2014 16:21
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FAUXTON posted:In that sense you probably have to be where the hardware is manufactured so that you're not shipping a test unit back and forth overseas with a list of issues, right? Fairly serious; I live in Idaho which is a terrible thing in of itself, but what's worse is our education system in Boise is so terrible that there isn't a lot of companies that hire educated people. :\
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May 2, 2014 16:22
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Fried Chicken posted:
I'm waiting for bankers to just straight up murder people personally then use the argument that if they are prosecuted the tender hearted investors will freak out.
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May 2, 2014 16:27
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Radish posted:I'm waiting for bankers to just straight up murder people personally then use the argument that if they are prosecuted the tender hearted investors will freak out. Well, we are an oligarchy. Feudal state isn't too far from that...
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May 2, 2014 16:34
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ratbert90 posted:Fairly serious; I live in Idaho which is a terrible thing in of itself, but what's worse is our education system in Boise is so terrible that there isn't a lot of companies that hire educated people. :\ Yeah, there's HP, Micron, and uh... I want to get out to Seattle so bad.
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May 2, 2014 16:35
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Radish posted:I'm waiting for bankers to just straight up murder people personally then use the argument that if they are prosecuted the tender hearted investors will freak out. Institutionalized "affluenza" is certainly a big step towards literal class warfare.
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May 2, 2014 16:37
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MarsDragon posted:Yeah, there's HP, Micron, and uh... Simplot if you're into agriculture. 
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May 2, 2014 16:37
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Fried Chicken posted:Banks being banks, threatening that investigating them could blow up the economy "The financial sector is fine! But no investigations, don't look at it too hard. If you do, it'll explode." I wish I could use this excuse in other parts of my life. "Of course I'm not drunk while driving, officer! But no, you can't give me a breathalyzer test. If you do, I'll turn into a meth dealer."
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May 2, 2014 16:41
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President Ark posted:"The financial sector is fine! But no investigations, don't look at it too hard. If you do, it'll explode." I have to admit seeing "maybe we should prosecute banks that break the law..." on a business website makes me think that maybe, just maybe there's a chance "serious" people are starting to realize that ignoring certain financial crimes is a bad idea.
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May 2, 2014 16:45
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Nenonen posted:
Sounds more like post-scarcity to me.
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May 2, 2014 16:49
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Radish posted:I'm waiting for bankers to just straight up murder people personally then use the argument that if they are prosecuted the tender hearted investors will freak out. You mean like during Occupy when they literally ran people down with their cars outside a Koch Brothers event in DC, or the Mercedes that did it in Oakland?
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May 2, 2014 16:54
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Radish posted:I have to admit seeing "maybe we should prosecute banks that break the law..." on a business website makes me think that maybe, just maybe there's a chance "serious" people are starting to realize that ignoring certain financial crimes is a bad idea. Of course they care, they are the ones getting ripped off. They went after Madoff didn't they? If Jordan Belfort had stuck to targeting the middle class and poor with his penny stocks they never would have looked at him
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May 2, 2014 16:56
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Radish posted:I'm waiting for bankers to just straight up murder people personally then use the argument that if they are prosecuted the tender hearted investors will freak out. "Suspicious Deaths of Bankers Are Now Classified as “Trade Secrets” by Federal Regulator" http://wallstreetonparade.com/2014/...eral-regulator/ quote:Wall Street mega banks crash the U.S. financial system in 2008. Hundreds of thousands of financial industry workers lose their jobs. Then, beginning late last year, a rash of suspicious deaths start to occur among current and former bank employees. Next we learn that four of the Wall Street mega banks likely hold over $680 billion face amount of life insurance on their workers, payable to the banks, not the families. We ask their Federal regulator for the details of this life insurance under a Freedom of Information Act request and we’re told the information constitutes “trade secrets.” 
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May 2, 2014 17:16
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Iron Twinkie posted:"Suspicious Deaths of Bankers Are Now Classified as “Trade Secrets” by Federal Regulator" "Trade secret" in this case basically means that its private business data that isn't the federal regulator's to give out.
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May 2, 2014 17:20
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Fried Chicken posted:You mean like during Occupy when they literally ran people down with their cars outside a Koch Brothers event in DC, or the Mercedes that did it in Oakland? Which bankers were these?
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May 2, 2014 17:22
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His many of the 800,000 leaving job force is because they got Obamacare so they don't have to stay in their job for health care anymore?
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May 2, 2014 17:23
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Iron Twinkie posted:"Suspicious Deaths of Bankers Are Now Classified as “Trade Secrets” by Federal Regulator" I wonder if hire-for-murder rather than murder-for-hire is still 'in the 1st degree'.
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May 2, 2014 17:28
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Fried Chicken posted:Economists in general and Krugman in particular have utterly demolished the "it's structural!" Talking point. The problem isn't "work force doesn't have the skills", if it was we would see wages rising. The problem is lack of aggregate demand Sorry, I used the wrong term. No need to get all snippy about it and accuse people of trolling.
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May 2, 2014 17:29
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tbp posted:Which bankers were these? Do you even care what the answer is?
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May 2, 2014 17:31
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menino posted:Do you even care what the answer is? Do you not have tbp on ignore?
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May 2, 2014 17:41
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Just an FYI - I got a call from a private number, on my cell phone, claiming that "paul ryan blah blah blah - please give democrats 214$ to take back our house." When I asked what website the guy was with he kept trying to convince me to give my credit card over the phone and I told him I never do that, i'll go to their webpage. He hung up on me. So yeah - scammers are about. I think he thought I was old too because he kept bringing up my medicare vouchers. I've only ever donated on Emily's list or Act Blue so maybe one of their lists was compromised. Probably isn't the most appropriate place to let folks know but probably the best thread that fits the bill.
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May 2, 2014 17:41
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greatn posted:His many of the 800,000 leaving job force is because they got Obamacare so they don't have to stay in their job for health care anymore? Probably none. Unless I'm mistaken, exiting the labor force doesn't means someone was fired or quit, but means they ended up unemployed and have quit seeking employment. I believe that the figure for when you drop out is after like 6 weeks of not seeking employment, so this is probably too soon to see any effect from that. Additionally, this is the continuation of a trend we've seen over the last several years towards lower labor force participation rates, not a sudden jump of late. No reason to think Obamacare is the cause of this.
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