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Tentacle Party posted:Yes yes it does, it's the secret they tell you once you get a badge. A legitimate one. Often a public servant will do something extremely violent and illegal and then their unions will go to bat for them to get them reinstated. It seems like that alone would remove any fear of consequence, like the civilian population lives under. You know, the threat of criminal arrest and prosecution. Do you disagree? What about the other two questions I asked? mds2 fucked around with this message at 19:33 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 19:31
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Whip Slagcheek posted:It happens A LOT more than gets reported on. The Washington Post, I believe, ran a story a couple of years ago about embassy staff and their propensity for breaking traffic laws and the hundreds of thousands of dollars in unpaid tickets that they rack up. That's not even counting the times officers just ignore a traffic violation because they see diplomat tags on their cars and don't want to deal with the headache. Ah yeah, there was also that guy who ran over a cyclist and left the scene or some such near K St a few years back. I think they eventually ended up kicking him out of the country. My sympathies for dealing with them then. The three times I've almost been hit by a car when out running, twice they had diplomatic tags and one yelled at me to get out of the road (when I had the right of way in a crosswalk).
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May 2, 2014 19:36
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mds2 posted:A legitimate one. Often a public servant will do something extremely violent and illegal and then their unions will go to bat for them to get them reinstated. It seems like that alone would remove any fear of consequence, like the civilian population lives under. You know, the threat of criminal arrest and prosecution. Do you disagree? You mean like a defense attorney goes to bat for the pedophile to get his charges thrown out and convictions overturned, or how the state automatically appeals death sentences on behalf of the guy who cut eight people's heads off? The associations are there to protect the member's right to due process, and a union that won't put up a fight for the least of its members is a pretty lovely union that'll probably be closed soon. There's a big difference between ensuring his rights are respected and endorsing what the member actually did, and I'm equally idealistic about everyone on both sides of the process being well aware that the guy in question is a terrible human. The same is true when you get a particularly awful offender in your car. You make doubly-sure that nothing you do to him could in any way be seen as violating his rights or mistreating him so he'll have nothing to beat you over the head with on appeal.
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May 2, 2014 19:39
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mds2 posted:A legitimate one. Often a public servant will do something extremely violent and illegal and then their unions will go to bat for them to get them reinstated. It seems like that alone would remove any fear of consequence, like the civilian population lives under. You know, the threat of criminal arrest and prosecution. Do you disagree? This happens often? What percentage of cops do you believe have done something extremely violent and illegal and managed to keep their jobs & avoid prosecution? I can only speak for my experience but in 8 years my department has fired dozens of officers who were acting inappropriately and arrested & prosecuted 3 that had actually broken the law. One was writing fake seatbelt tickets to scam overtime from a federal program and two others were smuggling contraband into the correctional facility. All three are behind bars, there is no union here & I'm absolutely certain I could lose my job if I started acting like an idiot.
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May 2, 2014 19:41
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*Car follows too closely.* *Cruiser moves behind and Whip sighs, seeing the yellow diplomat plate. Tired of foreigners treating his Parkway like Mad Max, the lights are activated.* *Whip approaches and leans past the B pillar, smelling a strong odor of alcohol from the vehicle.* "License, registration, and proof of insurance?" "Hahaha, diplomatic immunity." "It's just been revoked." *Drives low level diplomat home.* *Consular General attempts to locate phone number on USPP website to loge a complaint for ride home taking too long, finds nothing, requests webmaster info from Geocities.* beanieson posted:This happens often? What percentage of cops do you believe have done something extremely violent and illegal and managed to keep their jobs & avoid prosecution? Jesus. How many officers does your department have for forced turnover like that? Lax on the hiring standards or just a bad pool of applicants in your area? GunForumMeme fucked around with this message at 19:44 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 19:42
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Whip Slagcheek posted:
I guess we're too far out in the sticks.  . Also, no not exactly. It's my understanding we were officially told to return him to the tow lot. What happens after that well. Hopefully we've left by then right.
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May 2, 2014 19:47
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^^ To be fair they usually send whoever is responsible for security at the respective embassy and they are NOT happy with the person they come to pick up. Diplomat plates are blue/red idiot.
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May 2, 2014 19:47
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flakeloaf posted:You mean like a defense attorney goes to bat for the pedophile to get his charges thrown out and convictions overturned, or how the state automatically appeals death sentences on behalf of the guy who cut eight people's heads off? I think your two examples are very different. A defense attorney is used AFTER criminal charges are filed and prosecution is being sought. Police unions are often used to allow a violent public servants to escape criminal charges and return to duty. I understand what you say about respecting due process, but it seems that a public servant can eschew that. Therefore, is there any real threat of being fired or facing criminal charges as a public servant?
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May 2, 2014 19:48
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beanieson posted:This happens often? What percentage of cops do you believe have done something extremely violent and illegal and managed to keep their jobs & avoid prosecution? According to google, more than 1. Which is way too many in my opinion. I see that cop that choked that non-resiting man into unconsciousness is suing to get his job back. And that sure has hell isn't a first. edit: Also I believe the choking cop has not had any criminal charges filed against him. mds2 fucked around with this message at 19:55 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 19:50
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mds2 posted:I think your two examples are very different. A defense attorney is used AFTER criminal charges are filed and prosecution is being sought. Police unions are often used to allow a violent public servants to escape criminal charges and return to duty. I understand what you say about respecting due process, but it seems that a public servant can eschew that. Therefore, is there any real threat of being fired or facing criminal charges as a public servant? I think you will find that most of us acknowledge that there are cunts out there who do hosed up things in uniform. Yes they should be charged, yes they should go to prison, yes they should be buried under said prison. Besides that what else do you want us to say? What kind of answer are you looking for with your loaded questions?
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May 2, 2014 20:00
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Tentacle Party posted:I think you will find that most of us acknowledge that there are cunts out there who do hosed up things in uniform. Yes they should be charged, yes they should go to prison, yes they should be buried under said prison. Honest ones from police officers. This is the "ask a cop" thread. I'm a curious citizen wondering what goes on behind that blue curtain. Do public servants feel like/know that they wont be subject to the same punishments as everyone else, and how does that affect their call to duty. Its a legitimate question. If a question is too hot for you to answer there is nothing compelling you to do so. mds2 fucked around with this message at 20:10 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 20:04
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mds2 posted:I think your two examples are very different. A defense attorney is used AFTER criminal charges are filed and prosecution is being sought. Police unions are often used to allow a violent public servants to escape criminal charges and return to duty. I understand what you say about respecting due process, but it seems that a public servant can eschew that. Therefore, is there any real threat of being fired or facing criminal charges as a public servant?  But police unions can't defend someone until they've been accused of something? Administrative proceedings and criminal ones are distinct processes, so far as I know. Beating one doesn't necessarily mean escaping the other. mds2 posted:As police officers, do you have any real fear at all of losing your jobs? Frankly, no. I've seen guys' careers come back after stealing coke from the evidence room, choking a woman in plain view of the public, conspiring to commit perjury to conceal "probably-manslaughter", impaired driving and other terrible things. Things that have led to convictions under police services acts or in a federal court don't necessary lead to dismissal. Ending your career should definitely be easier than it is. quote:Or being held criminally accountable? All the drat time. The definition of what's legal can be conveniently twisted to exclude what seemed reasonable under the circumstances, depending on the lovely mood your boss or oversight agency happens to be in. Such amusing charges I've heard of include: Using your notebook as a weapon of opportunity, striking someone with the butt of your firearm in response to lethal force, destroying evidence improperly by following instructions to destroy evidence, unknowingly making a false statement in a report or in testimony by being genuinely mistaken as to the facts after working four extra hours at the end of a twelve-hour shift because "you aren't going home until this is sworn in". Show up on the six o'clock news kicking a homeless man in the balls and you'd may as well just march yourself upstairs right now and wait for IAB to come get you. If you do something obviously illegal, I would hope someone would rat if for no other reason than to protect his own rear end from a conspiracy to conceal charge for when the bosses find out from someone else. The association will try to defend you, but if you're guilty you're loving guilty and sometimes it's better to admit that and take what's coming than to fight it for a year in front of the media, win or lose. Our trainer told us a story about a guy in our outfit who was acquitted of impaired driving because of a marvelous display of bullshit and legal technicalities, but had his badge permanently revoked anyway because the board knew he drove drunk and basically lied in court to protect his own rear end. quote:Often is the case where public servants will commit extremely violent egregious acts against citizens. While assailants are often initially fired or only suspended, many times they will be reinstated and given back pay. Does this give police carte blanche to act outside of the laws they swear to uphold? No, but if what I've seen from your news is any indication it's no surprise how someone could think otherwise. A powerful, impartial, accountable oversight agency is a cornerstone of public trust in the police. This group needs to exist, they need to announce when they're working, and where they find no wrongdoing they have to be ready to explain to the voters why that is. "After an internal review, the member who was videotaped kneeling on a man's neck and punching him in the eye sixty-three times has been reinstated with back pay" sickens me. Even the illusion that this sort of conduct is acceptable makes everyone else's job that much harder to do. flakeloaf fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Sep 11, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 20:14
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mds2 posted:Honest ones from police officers. This is the "ask a cop" thread. I'm a curious citizen wondering what goes on behind that blue curtain. Do public servants feel like/know that they wont be subject to the same punishments as everyone else, and how does that affect their call to duty. Its a legitimate question. It is a legit question, & I believe I answered it above but to reiterate: I have no doubt I'd be fired arrested & prosecuted if I was caught breaking the law. They've done it before and will continue to do so, as the job market sucks and there's tons of people waiting to replace me. The dept would see me as a liability if I was doing illegal things and cut me free ASAP to avoid litigation against themselves. The thin blue line might get me out of a minor speeding ticket but not much else. Also, I agree with your statement above that it happens way too often, but way too often is still a minute percentage and most of us won't have any direct experience with the kind of corruption that you're talking about.
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May 2, 2014 20:21
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mds2 posted:Honest ones from police officers. This is the "ask a cop" thread. I'm a curious citizen wondering what goes on behind that blue curtain. Do public servants feel like/know that they wont be subject to the same punishments as everyone else, and how does that affect their call to duty. Its a legitimate question. Fair enough. No. If anything I feel as if I am under more scrutiny than the average person. (which is how it should be) I know that if I commit any criminal act or omission I know that not only will my department put me on Facebook for transparency reasons , I will be charged and get a higher that average sentence. We have an internal department and external commission whose whole existence is to hunt down and weed out corrupt and abusive cops. I don't worry about this as I'm not a sociopath cop, excluding my trolling here.
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May 2, 2014 20:21
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You can stop PM'ing me about loaded questions guys. I want this thread to have open discussion with real answers. People aren't going to like the police and that's fine. If you don't like the question, don't answer it.
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May 2, 2014 20:29
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mds2 posted:According to google, more than 1. Which is way too many in my opinion. I see that cop that choked that non-resiting man into unconsciousness is suing to get his job back. And that sure has hell isn't a first. Jesus Christ there are hundreds of thousands of police officers, it is not possible for every single one of them to be a perfect angel, and the justice system will always have someone slip through the cracks because it's not possible for that to be perfect either.
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May 2, 2014 21:08
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To be fair a lot of police officers that are involved in misconduct skirt away from being held accountable.
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May 2, 2014 21:14
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Tentacle Party posted:Fair enough. So I am done with the DWI questions because I understand the point of view, even if I don't agree with it. So I have some follow up questions for this line. What about things that would be illegal for me but not for you, but are morally reprehensible. For instance its not legal for me to walk up to a woman in New York at a protest and blast her in the face with pepper spray, then drag her off for the crime of walking on the sidewalk. Seems its fine for the NYPD though. I would go to jail for shooting an Iraq vet in the face with a canister of tear gas and put him in a coma if he walked up to me, but it seems to be okay for the Oakland PD to do it. And I don't get to get a bunch of my buddies together, hop in an armored personnel carrier and kick down some families door at the wrong address, kill their dog and mow down the homeowner with 65 rounds from multiple shooters. Although this seems relatively sanctioned by our police forces. What do you feel about the militarization of our police forces as well as the use of them to quell protest and infringe on peaceable assembly as well as just being able to say "WHOOPS wrong house!" when they kick the door in and kill people/pets on "accident" with no consequences? I am not trying to be an rear end in a top hat but from this side of the blue line protect and serve the people has been replaced with something else. As a military vet I find it rather odd that my job was to wield big loving weapons and use them on other countries, it seems like you get to wield some big loving weapons as well, only they get used against us. How does watching that kind of stuff go down on TV affect you all? The police officer I know say "Well they had it coming, why go to a protest if you know you are going to get your rear end beat?" And my response is "You shouldn't get your rear end beat by going to a protest which is your right as an America citizen."
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May 2, 2014 21:29
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mds2 posted:Honest ones from police officers. This is the "ask a cop" thread. I'm a curious citizen wondering what goes on behind that blue curtain. Do public servants feel like/know that they wont be subject to the same punishments as everyone else, and how does that affect their call to duty. Its a legitimate question. I feel more concerned about civil and criminal consequences now that I'm an LEO. Beyond all the agencies that can investigate a civilian, I also have two units who are trained, staffed and paid exclusively to investigate me. I'm also required to record most of my actions in a notebook which is the property of my agency that I'm required to maintain and turn over even when it incriminates me. I'm perfectly happy with all of that. We're held to a higher standard and as long as our rights are all respected I'm happy with vigorous and transparent investigations.
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May 2, 2014 21:40
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I don't agree with cops being used on protestors like at occupy at all. I'm curious how a veteran who has the beliefs you have, views your time in service? Bad things happen in america because of the police, but it is unquestionable that horrible things have been done by the military in the name of freedom, do you think you should be held accountable for any of that?
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May 2, 2014 21:45
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Errant Gin Monks posted:How does watching that kind of stuff go down on TV affect you all? The police officer I know say "Well they had it coming, why go to a protest if you know you are going to get your rear end beat?" And my response is "You shouldn't get your rear end beat by going to a protest which is your right as an America citizen." I can't really answer all that as I don't live in your hosed up country. Before I joined the police I watched videos of police brutality in America and it kind of made me want to be a cop
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May 2, 2014 21:55
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Errant Gin Monks posted:I am not trying to be an rear end in a top hat but from this side of the blue line protect and serve the people has been replaced with something else. As a military vet I find it rather odd that my job was to wield big loving weapons and use them on other countries, it seems like you get to wield some big loving weapons as well, only they get used against us. How does watching that kind of stuff go down on TV affect you all? The police officer I know say "Well they had it coming, why go to a protest if you know you are going to get your rear end beat?" And my response is "You shouldn't get your rear end beat by going to a protest which is your right as an America citizen." My question is: Why is this allowed to happen in a country where the judiciary and prosecutors are directly elected? It's horrible that there are police officers who do these things and they shouldn't do them in the first place, but why is the mechanism whose stated purpose is to punish offenders not doing anything about it?
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May 2, 2014 22:12
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Whip Slagcheek posted:You can stop PM'ing me about loaded questions guys. ban everyone who pm'd you about it TIA
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May 3, 2014 01:46
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Smiling Jack posted:ban everyone who pm'd you about it TIA this
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May 3, 2014 02:30
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Whip, I am filing an official FOIL request on who is a thin skinned whiner. Don't hide behind the blue star of silence.
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May 3, 2014 02:51
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Smiling Jack posted:Whip, I am filing an official FOIL request on who is a thin skinned whiner. Don't hide behind the blue star of silence. its shepard
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May 3, 2014 02:53
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krispykremessuck posted:its shepard Come at me bro I've actually never reported a post ever in my history on SA because I'm not a big babby.
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May 3, 2014 02:55
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Here's Whips chance to destroy The Thin Blue Line 
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May 3, 2014 02:58
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no justice no peace
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May 3, 2014 03:03
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 says at least one snitch isn't even a copgoon
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May 3, 2014 03:05
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you all need to turn in your badge and gun on my desk until IA is done interviewing everybody.
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May 3, 2014 03:06
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Branis posted:you all need to turn in your badge and gun on my desk until IA is done interviewing everybody. *calls union*
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May 3, 2014 03:11
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Branis posted:you all need to turn in your badge and gun on my desk until IA is done interviewing everybody.  t  I think I know who it is but I don't wanna point fingers theres a clue on this page
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May 3, 2014 03:15
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it's a false flag to make us all suspicious of each other, whip is the reporter.
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May 3, 2014 03:16
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Branis posted:you all need to turn in your badge and gun on my desk until IA is done interviewing everybody. Gonna be enjoying my paid vacation suckers.
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May 3, 2014 03:24
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Smiling Jack posted:*calls union* *goes back to work without any repercussions after a cushy 6 week paid vacation*
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May 3, 2014 04:04
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Branis posted:I don't agree with cops being used on protestors like at occupy at all. I'm curious how a veteran who has the beliefs you have, views your time in service? Bad things happen in america because of the police, but it is unquestionable that horrible things have been done by the military in the name of freedom, do you think you should be held accountable for any of that? Me personally? No I was on a carrier and didn't kill anyone. Just like I wouldn't charge the dispatch officer during protest brutality. Did our military members do some hosed up poo poo? Yes and they should be held accountable. But the ones who did it and the ones who ordered it should be accountable. Same with cops. I do think the police are obviously very important and play a key role in society, but I feel the militarization of police and the "us vs them" mentality that seems to be common in places is a terrible trend.
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May 3, 2014 04:05
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Me personally? No I was on a carrier and didn't kill anyone. Just like I wouldn't charge the dispatch officer during protest brutality. Did our military members do some hosed up poo poo? Yes and they should be held accountable. But the ones who did it and the ones who ordered it should be accountable. Same with cops. sorry bro but you supported flight ops that probably indirectly implicate you in the deaths of some kids when an f18 cas dropped some 500 lbs bombs on them the penalty for child murder is death so get to it
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May 3, 2014 04:09
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Me personally? No I was on a carrier and didn't kill anyone. Just like I wouldn't charge the dispatch officer during protest brutality. Did our military members do some hosed up poo poo? Yes and they should be held accountable. But the ones who did it and the ones who ordered it should be accountable. Same with cops. Kinda hypocritical though right? In your previous post you state that a protestor in New York was pepper sprayed and blame the entire NYPD, a vet was hit with a gas canister and you blame the entire Oakland PD, and that apparently all of Americas police force is responsible for wrong address no knock warrants and shooting family dogs. If you can separate your actions on the carrier from the pilots dropping bombs I'd hope you could look at officers based on their individual actions instead of lumping us all together with the horror stories you've seen in the news. But then, ACAB  E: to clarify, if you believe what you're saying now, that individuals should be held accountable for their actions, then hey. We all agree with you. But go back and read your previous post, cause it sure sounds like an indictment of all law enforcement 
beanieson fucked around with this message at 04:38 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 04:25
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So someone who literally assists with bombing weddings wants to know about the horrific abuses of the police ask me about logical fallacies
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May 3, 2014 04:26
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