2014 NFL Draft

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Regnevelc: Jan 12, 2003; I'M A GROWN ASS MAN!

Bigass Moth posted:

My favorite part is that Derek Carr is "smart" with a 23 wonderlic, but Teddy Bridgewater is merely "smart enough" with a 20 Wonderlic. No mention of Manziel's high score, but he is listed as stupid. I'm shocked there was no mention of Bortles' hot girlfriend helping his swagger or something else inconsequential.

he was called stupid by someone that says 'ain't'

# ? May 2, 2014 16:21

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# ? May 26, 2024 13:54

No Butt Stuff: Jun 10, 2004

can't wait for the Jameis Winston "is he smart" narrative next year.

he scores on tests like this! BUT HE TALK LIKE DIS!

# ? May 2, 2014 16:41

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

No Butt Stuff posted:

can't wait for the Jameis Winston "is he smart" narrative next year.

he scores on tests like this! BUT HE TALK LIKE DIS!

I'm going to go ahead and assure you Winston is not the brightest crayon in the box.

# ? May 2, 2014 16:43

The 7th Guest: Dec 17, 2003

Bryce Petty will get overhyped next year because scouts will panic when they realize there's no comfortable safe white guy to project among the top 3 quarterbacks

Then they can safely call all the non-white QBs risky and criticize their smile

# ? May 2, 2014 16:44

No Butt Stuff: Jun 10, 2004

FizFashizzle posted:

I'm going to go ahead and assure you Winston is not the brightest crayon in the box.

I said that he sounded like an idiot when he won the Heisman, and people jumped down my throat telling me he got a 4.0 in high school and was a genius or some poo poo.

I still think he's not real bright, but yeah.

e: looks like he's carrying a 3.1 at FSU now, so that means nothing, since he doesn't even have to go to class to get that.

# ? May 2, 2014 16:44

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

No Butt Stuff posted:

I said that he sounded like an idiot when he won the Heisman, and people jumped down my throat telling me he got a 4.0 in high school and was a genius or some poo poo.

I still think he's not real bright, but yeah.

e: looks like he's carrying a 3.1 at FSU now, so that means nothing, since he doesn't even have to go to class to get that.

I'm worried about him carrying other things, not his GPA.

# ? May 2, 2014 16:47

No Butt Stuff: Jun 10, 2004

He'd have to murder a hooker and get convicted in Tallahassee to not be drafted Number 1 next year.

# ? May 2, 2014 16:48

The 7th Guest: Dec 17, 2003

He will easily not go #1 because scouts will throw every flaw at him to try and get his stock to fall. then they'll say "wait until next year's draft when Brett Applefuck is eligible!!"

# ? May 2, 2014 16:50

Cash Monet: Apr 5, 2009

Bonham posted:

Teddy, is it true that none of your friends came to your birthday party?

...my mom made fruit cakes for parties, ok?!

# ? May 2, 2014 16:52

Bigass Moth: Mar 6, 2004; I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...

Quest For Glory II posted:

He will easily not go #1 because scouts will throw every flaw at him to try and get his stock to fall. then they'll say "wait until next year's draft when Brett Applefuck is eligible!!"

"An anonymous NFC scout said Winston's favorite pokemon is Snorlax. Said team is looking for 'more of a Jolteon' type player."

# ? May 2, 2014 17:05

bewbies: Sep 23, 2003; Fun Shoe

Baylessing of the highest order

quote:

I was right about Tim Tebow and I will be right on a much higher level about Johnny Manziel.

What Tebow kept pulling off late in games for the 2011 Denver Broncos, Manziel will make happen for all four quarters of NFL games. Manziel has Tebow's miracle-making will, electrified by far more quickness, speed, accuracy, radar and football IQ. Manziel has Tebow's rare intangibles heightened by rarer tangibles.

Tebow was a phenomenon. Manziel will be a perennial Pro Bowler, a Michael Vick fully capable of picking you to pieces from the pocket.

So please do not say I now have my "new Tebow." That's an insult to Manziel. I wrote a year ago that Manziel already was operating on a higher level than Tebow ever had -- after Manziel won the Heisman Trophy in his first year as a college starter, breaking Cam Newton's single-season SEC total offense record in two fewer games. Now, Manziel makes Blake Bortles and Teddy Bridgewater look like just guys.

Next season, Manziel will have the same national impact on some lucky city that Tebow did on Denver and its Broncos in 2011. And it will last.

Before Tebow's draft, I said I would take him late in the first round. Josh McDaniels, then Denver's coach, took him 25th. I said Tebow would never make a Pro Bowl, but that he would win games as a starting quarterback if given a chance in his college spread option offense.

Only one team did: a desperate 1-4 Denver, the year after McDaniels was fired.

Tebow led the Broncos to the AFC West title -- and the NFL team rushing title -- and beat Pittsburgh in a playoff game with a play for the ages, an 80-yard overtime touchdown pass. All Tebow did that season was have the NFL's best QBR in the final five minutes of games. Onward, Christian soldier.

Phenomenal.

Yet, after the Broncos landed Peyton Manning and traded Tebow to the Jets, he never got a chance to play quarterback. He lost confidence, visited his third or fourth independent passing coach, began to think too much about what had come so instinctively and regressed as a passer in his one preseason with New England.

This is how much better Manziel is: The Houston Texans, with this year's No. 1 overall pick, will forever regret it if they don't take the Texas kid with the movie-title nickname, Johnny Football.

Manziel built his legend at Texas A&M, just an hour-and-a-half drive from Reliant Stadium. About 300,000 A&M alums live in Houston, according to Manziel's QB coach, George Whitfield Jr. Johnny Football, the most electrifying college football player I ever saw, was born to win Super Bowls in Houston.

Manziel, with his infectious It Factor, would immediately turn the Texans into the It Team. They've been just a quarterback away for three seasons -- Matt Schaub completed lots of passes, but never THE pass. Manziel would soon make every player in that locker room -- and every fan in that stadium -- believe the Texans finally had a star who would make THE play. With Manziel next season, the Texans would go from 2-14 to 10-6.

Tim Tebow
Manziel is likely to turn out a better pro than another hype-magnet QB, Tim Tebow.

If I ran the Texans, and Bill O'Brien, who has never been head coach for a down of NFL football, dug in and concluded Manziel was too short and too Hollywood and too headstrong for him, I'd thank my new coach and fire him. Manziel is far, far more valuable.

While ESPN's Todd McShay calls freakishly gifted pass-rusher Jadeveon Clowney a "once in 20 years player," Manziel is once in a lifetime. He'll be as great at his position as Clowney will be at his, but you have to take the face-of-the-franchise quarterback over the defensive end.

Like Tebow, Manziel certainly has his doubters -- but far fewer. Even the doubters fear he could turn into a star. "Boom or bust" is the way McShay and ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. view Manziel. Kiper won't even rank Manziel on his QB list because he's not sure what to make of him. In their latest mock drafts, both have Cleveland "rolling the dice" on Manziel at No. 4.

Kiper perfectly sums up Tebow vs. Manziel this way: "Before Tebow's draft, maybe 1 or 2 percent [of NFL evaluators] liked him. But with Manziel, it's 50-50."

Jon Gruden is all in. Gruden, ESPN's "Monday Night Football" analyst, has the advantage of studying all the top draftees for his Quarterback Camp. Gruden breaks down their college tape, grills them face-to-face on camera, tests them at the chalkboard, gets to know them during off-camera lunches, then puts them through the equivalent of a pro day on the field. He had Manziel for two days.

With the right coach in the right system, says Gruden, Manziel will be "a smash hit."

On "First Take" the other day, Gruden told me: "I think he can create offense unlike most guys I've ever seen. And he has guts, quickness, vision, and he loves the big arena, the big stage. Guys like him don't come across the map very often.

"I called plays for 14 years [in the NFL] and this is the kind of kid I'm looking for. This is the kind of quarterback I want to be around. I just get a certain feeling when I'm in the room with him. I think he permeates confidence throughout the entire building. He just has a certain magic to him."

Gruden said he couldn't quit rewinding plays as he watched Manziel's two games against Alabama, "what I think is the best defense in college football." Manziel beat Nick Saban's defense 29-24 two years ago in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, by making three fourth-quarter throws his coordinator at the time, Kliff Kingsbury, now Texas Tech head coach, told me "were as good as any I've been around [including three years in the NFL]."

Saban had an entire offseason to find the Johnny Football antidote, ahead of a Sept. 14 game in College Station, Texas. Manziel went for 562 total yards and 42 points. Yet an A&M defense that wound up allowing the 109th-most yards out of 123 Division I teams allowed Alabama 49 points.

Saban called Manziel as tough a competitor as he has faced in 40 years of coaching. Saban also faced Tebow twice (and also lost, then won).

You scoff that Manziel will never learn to be a pro pocket passer? Scoff at this: From the pocket, he completed 73 percent of his passes last season, best among QBs from BCS automatic-qualifier conferences.

You sniff he's too short? At 5-11�, he's a little more than an inch taller than Seattle's Russell Wilson, now a Super Bowl winner. And Manziel's hands and feet are freakishly big -- Gruden marveled at how Manziel could catch and quick-throw a special ball without laces.

You roll your eyes that scrambling, gambling Johnny Football won't be able to dodge injury in the NFL? His shoulder was hurt against Auburn (which nearly won the national championship) only because Manziel knew (1) he had a chance to put his Aggies up 14 early in the fourth quarter and (2) his defense couldn't stop Auburn. So Manziel bolted hell-bent up the middle and took on two Tigers at the 2-yard line. A third fell on his shoulder.

He missed a series while, presumably, taking a pain-killing injection, then returned to complete his next nine passes. Only an uncalled horse-collar tackle on Manziel allowed Auburn to escape 45-41.

Manziel convinced Gruden he will not take that kind of a risk in pro football. I've heard the same thing from him -- that he will happily slide if cornered in the NFL. But he will torment defenses by occasionally running -- his plant-and-cut quickness in the open field will break some ankles and bruise some pro egos.

When you talk with Manziel, he can come across as the most mature 21-year-old you've ever met, a man of a boy. But of course, he also involved himself in several crazy-kid escapades the offseason after winning the Heisman, some involving excess alcohol. Lately, though, he has learned to party smarter and avoid social-media turnovers.

So how did a white kid from Tyler, Texas, manage to become such good buddies with LeBron James and Drake? Because they know unique talent. Cool attracts cool.

As Gruden says: "Why wouldn't you want LeBron James and Drake on your sideline?"

That contagious star power will come with the Johnny Franchise package. Chip Kelly gets it. Kelly says it "broke my heart" when Manziel broke a verbal commitment to play for Kelly at Oregon.

Rumors have flown that Eagles coach Kelly has been trying to figure out a way to trade up for Manziel. Kelly would be the best coaching/scheme fit for him. Imagine the rabbits Kelly could pull out of his hat with Johnny Football running his show.

So how, I asked Gruden, can the Texans afford not to take Johnny Manziel?

"I don't know," Gruden said. "Unless they want to play Case Keenum or Ryan Fitzpatrick."

# ? May 2, 2014 17:13

the_american_dream: Apr 12, 2008; GAHDAMN

Detroit_Dogg posted:

Dri Archer is in really good shape and I want the Lions to draft him, discuss.

Im pretty sure every non lineman/qb looks like that shirtless Dogg

# ? May 2, 2014 17:19

Harlock: Jan 15, 2006; Tap "A" to drink!!!

Plaster this on ESPN when he gets drafted

Manziel has Tebow's rare intangibles heightened by rarer tangibles

# ? May 2, 2014 17:25

Diva Cupcake: Aug 15, 2005

No Butt Stuff posted:

He'd have to murder a hooker and get convicted in Tallahassee to not be drafted Number 1 next year.

This is said literally every year and every year players fall. No one has any idea if he or Hundley or Mariota will project better as prospects yet.

# ? May 2, 2014 18:07

The 7th Guest: Dec 17, 2003

Yet another anonymous scout:

quote:

Bridgewater has the will to become a great quarterback. He�ll work hard, and he�ll do everything that is asked of him. He�ll never create a single problem for the franchise, being a good teammate and a model citizen.

Physically, however, the thinking by some is that Bridgewater simply lacks the attributes necessary to make him one of the rare men who can be starting quarterbacks in the NFL. Bridgewater isn�t particularly big, he�s not particularly fast, his hands aren�t particularly large, and he doesn�t have a particularly strong arm in comparison to other starting quarterbacks.

He�s also viewed by some as a player who won�t take control of an offense. The young quarterbacks who have thrived right away have that trait; they take over immediately, and it�s undeniable that they deserve the job.

While there�s a perception that young quarterbacks who become starters immediately are in some way anointed by their teams, the blessing often comes not from the coaching staff or the front office but from the players, who won�t follow or respond to a quarterback in whom they don�t believe. With Bridgewater, there�s a concern that Bridgewater won�t take over in the way that he needs to take over.

CAN THE DRAFT GET HERE PLEASE

# ? May 2, 2014 19:11

v2vian man: Sep 1, 2007; Only question I
ever thought was hard
was do I like Kirk
or do I like Picard?

Um aside from Peyton being particularly smart, do any of the top 5 or top 10 NFL quarterbacks excel in a particular area?? Like the fastest, biggest and biggest-handed aren't even the best anyway

# ? May 2, 2014 19:25

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

I love how scouts will talk themselves out of proven guys and talk themselves into unproven guys. Josh Freeman comes to mind. He was nothing special in college but threw a nifty spiral so he's a first rounder for sure.

# ? May 2, 2014 19:27

Its Miller Time: Dec 4, 2004

FizFashizzle posted:

I'm going to go ahead and assure you Winston is not the brightest crayon in the box.

You should know better, being the beneficiary of the corrupt laptop stealing dubious #1 overall pick yourself.

# ? May 2, 2014 19:39

Evrart Claire: Jan 11, 2008

Rap posted:

Um aside from Peyton being particularly smart, do any of the top 5 or top 10 NFL quarterbacks excel in a particular area?? Like the fastest, biggest and biggest-handed aren't even the best anyway

Not really. If you count really specific skillset things outside of just accuracy and decision making, Rodgers and Roethlisberger might be the best at selling play actions and pump fakes, but none of the top 5 or 10 guys are the best in the league at any physical attribute I don't think.

# ? May 2, 2014 19:43

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

You don't even have to be the best physically to succeed at running back. Look at Frank Gore. Nothing about him says top back except for the part where he gets tackled a bunch of yards down the field further than he started all the time.

# ? May 2, 2014 19:46

Santheb: Jul 13, 2005

Zerilan posted:

Not really. If you count really specific skillset things outside of just accuracy and decision making, Rodgers and Roethlisberger might be the best at selling play actions and pump fakes, but none of the top 5 or 10 guys are the best in the league at any physical attribute I don't think.

Roethlisberger and Newton are easily 1 and 2 on the "most difficult to sack" power rankings. Its like trying to tackle a skyscraper.

# ? May 2, 2014 19:46

No Butt Stuff: Jun 10, 2004

I had a great reply but in the time it took to type it up, work blocked SA. Time to start job hunting I guess.

# ? May 2, 2014 19:49

HappyHelmet: Apr 9, 2003; Hail to the king baby!; Grimey Drawer

kiimo posted:

I love how scouts will talk themselves out of proven guys and talk themselves into unproven guys. Josh Freeman comes to mind. He was nothing special in college but threw a nifty spiral so he's a first rounder for sure.

I seem to remember scouts being pretty down on Freeman actually. I thought everyone was basically saying he was a likely 2nd round candidate, and it was a bit shocking when he got drafted in the 1st. Maybe I am confusing "scouts" with "goons" though.

# ? May 2, 2014 19:49

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Declan MacManus posted:

This is 400% untrue.

You've somehow crossed into a parallel dimension of being wrong.

I don't know if you misunderstood my argument, but I don't even see how this is debatable. Here's a list of quarterbacks who were ranked in the top 35 of all high school prospects from 2006-2011

Jeff Driskel
Phillip Sims
Matt Barkley
Garrett Gilbert
Aaron Murray
Terrelle Pryor
Mike Glennon
Kyle Parker
Jimmy Clausen
Ryan Mallett
Tyrod Taylor
John Brantley
Aaron Corp
Matthew Stafford
Mitch Mustain
Jevan Snead
Tim Tebow

One pretty drat good QB, and a bunch of scrubs and question marks.

# ? May 2, 2014 19:56

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Santheb posted:

Roethlisberger and Newton are easily 1 and 2 on the "most difficult to sack" power rankings. Its like trying to tackle a skyscraper.

Luck is up there in that discussion.

# ? May 2, 2014 19:57

Relentlessboredomm: Oct 15, 2006; It's Sic Semper Tyrannis. You said, "Ever faithful terrible lizard."

Rap posted:

Um aside from Peyton being particularly smart, do any of the top 5 or top 10 NFL quarterbacks excel in a particular area?? Like the fastest, biggest and biggest-handed aren't even the best anyway

Lets see:

Peyton: Smartest but definitely not the strongest arm at least not anymore. 6-5 230

Brady: Pretty loving average across the board except height but coming out he was skinny as hell: 6-4 211 (at combine)

Rodgers: Great arm but small hands smart. 6-1 almost 6-2 223 (at combine)

Brees: above average arm, smart enough, no standout measurables 6-0 213 (at combine)

Rivers: average arm, smart 6-5 229 (at combine)

Romo: Average, maybe below average arm, small hands. 6-2 230 (at combine)

Ryan: Weak arm, smart 6-5 228 (at combine) average hands

Bridgewater: Romo/Ryan level arm, average hands, smart, 6-2 214 (at combine)

Yea its a complete loving crapshoot. Tall is the main thing, but it seems to be just be 6-0 or taller. I actually found this article where someone put their stats, wonderlics, broad jump, 40, etc, up against other QBs to see where they stand out. Its hilarious because there are a bunch of good QBs who aren't dominant in any one area but a lot of the QBs that are all around impressive have done little to nothing outside of Andrew Luck.

http://nflphilosophy.com/a-visual-representation-of-nfl-quarterbacks/

# ? May 2, 2014 19:59

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

HappyHelmet posted:

I seem to remember scouts being pretty down on Freeman actually. I thought everyone was basically saying he was a likely 2nd round candidate, and it was a bit shocking when he got drafted in the 1st. Maybe I am confusing "scouts" with "goons" though.

I can't remember if it was Kiper or Mayock or someone else but some big draft guy went bezerk over Freeman and called him the best QB of that draft. I saw him play at K-State a bunch for one reason or another and I was like...really?

# ? May 2, 2014 19:59

DupaDupa: May 21, 2009; I'm Samurai Mike
I stop 'em cold.

Santheb posted:

Roethlisberger and Newton are easily 1 and 2 on the "most difficult to sack" power rankings. Its like trying to tackle a skyscraper.

You are right! and so is Volkerball.

This might not quantify "Missed Sacks" but it does have a graph for QBs that forced the most broken tackles!

code:

Most Broken Tackles, 2013 QB
Player 	Team 	BT 	Houdinis 	Past LOS
1-C.Newton 	CAR 	25 	20 	5
3-R.Wilson 	SEA 	15 	10 	5
7-B.Roethlisberger 	PIT 	12 	12 	0
12-A.Luck 	IND 	10 	8 	2
7-C.Kaepernick 	SF 	9 	7 	2
2-T.Pryor 	OAK 	9 	5 	4
7-G.Smith 	NYJ 	9 	5 	4
10-R.Griffin 	WAS 	8 	5 	3
9-M.Stafford 	DET 	8 	6 	2
5-J.Flacco 	BAL 	7 	7 	0

# ? May 2, 2014 20:06

Alaois: Feb 7, 2012

Volkerball posted:

I don't know if you misunderstood my argument, but I don't even see how this is debatable. Here's a list of quarterbacks who were ranked in the top 35 of all high school prospects from 2006-2011

Jeff Driskel
Phillip Sims
Matt Barkley
Garrett Gilbert
Aaron Murray
Terrelle Pryor
Mike Glennon
Kyle Parker
Jimmy Clausen
Ryan Mallett
Tyrod Taylor
John Brantley
Aaron Corp
Matthew Stafford
Mitch Mustain
Jevan Snead
Tim Tebow

One pretty drat good QB, and a bunch of scrubs and question marks.

Put Aaron Murray, a quarterback in this years draft, on the list but not Cam Newton, ranked 28 nationally in 2007

aight

# ? May 2, 2014 20:08

Groucho Marxist: Dec 9, 2005; Do you smell what The Mauk is cooking?

Using overall rankings instead of QB rankings is really dumb too.

# ? May 2, 2014 20:11

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Alouicious posted:

Put Aaron Murray, a quarterback in this years draft, on the list but not Cam Newton, ranked 28 nationally in 2007

aight

He was 58th here

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2007/order/true

# ? May 2, 2014 20:13

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Groucho Marxist posted:

Using overall rankings instead of QB rankings is really dumb too.

Not for the argument I was making, which is that aside from like Carson Palmer and John Elway, there's not much overlap between top high school prospects and great NFL qb's. Being an NFL caliber quarterback takes a lot of abilities that haven't even begun to show at 18, so there's tons of guys who slip through the cracks and only begin to flash their potential in college.

# ? May 2, 2014 20:16

Alaois: Feb 7, 2012

laffo you're using ESPN recruiting as a base, no wonder

# ? May 2, 2014 20:16

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Ok, what's the better one that had Wilson, Kaep, Luck, and Foles in the top 5?

# ? May 2, 2014 20:21

Chilichimp: Oct 24, 2006; TIE Adv xWampa

It wamp, and it stomp; Grimey Drawer

kiimo posted:

I can't remember if it was Kiper or Mayock or someone else but some big draft guy went bezerk over Freeman and called him the best QB of that draft. I saw him play at K-State a bunch for one reason or another and I was like...really?

I was listening to a Phil Sims radio interview the other night and he's really high on Derek Carr and Tom Savage.

There really is no accounting for what scouts and talent evaluators will say.

# ? May 2, 2014 20:23

swickles: Aug 21, 2006; I guess that I don't need that though
Now you're just some QB that I used to know

You realize that high school rankings are trying to evaluate and predict success in the college game though right, not the pro game? Tim Tebow was the #1 QB and maybe #1 overall recruit for a reason, it turns out he was really loving good in college. The offenses and such are different in college, which is why you see QB's divided into Dual Threat vs. Pro-style, with the Dual Threat usually more sought after so you can get thing like Johnny Football making plays with his legs and winning games when he needs to. Really, the only position one could reliably even try to attempt a comparison would be RB.

# ? May 2, 2014 20:49

The 7th Guest: Dec 17, 2003

The Tom Savage buzz is like the ultimate "talk yourself into it" scouting

Even more smokescreens, which I'm starting to think ESPN is fabricating just for eyeballs

quote:

ESPN's Chris Mortensen stated on NFL Insiders that the Rams' interest in Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel is "genuine."

"I believe their interest is serious," added Mort. "There are people who believe they could take him at No. 2."

# ? May 2, 2014 20:51

No Irish Need Imply: Nov 30, 2008

I want to see Manziel vs the NFC West.

# ? May 2, 2014 20:53

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Must feel really good to be an Oklahoma guy like Bradford and read that about Texas Hero Johnny Football.

# ? May 2, 2014 20:54

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# ? May 26, 2024 13:54

Whip Slagcheek: Sep 21, 2008; Finally
The Gasoline And Dynamite
Will Light The Sky
For The Night

No Butt Stuff posted:

can't wait for the Jameis Winston "is he smart" narrative next year.

he scores on tests like this! BUT HE TALK LIKE DIS!

I think it's safe to question the intelligence of a sure fire top 5 draft pick when they get cited for stealing crab legs.

# ? May 2, 2014 21:04

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