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SedanChair posted:Nobody remembers what Presidents do to social security ten years after they leave office. Do you think no one is going to remember a serious attempt to dismantle social security? If he is not remembered for that, his presidency would get remembered for the Iraq War. If he's not remembered for that, his presidency would be remembered as the guy who failed to kill Bin Laden during his entire presidency. If he's not remembered for that, his presidency would be remembered for the Patriot Act, which will still play a pretty active role in our daily lives. And above all that, his legacy will be remembered as Guantanamo Bay. I want to get this out of the way before this goes on: Do you think Bush was smarter than Dick Cheney? And would you vote for Jeb Bush if he ran for president?
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May 3, 2014 02:33
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I'm pretty sure Bush is going to be remembered for the biggest economic collapse since 1929.
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May 3, 2014 02:40
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Boon posted:I'm pretty sure Bush is going to be remembered for the biggest economic collapse since 1929. Not if the Republicans can help it. They're already trying to blame Obama for the 2008 crash and bailouts.
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May 3, 2014 02:43
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Boon posted:I'm pretty sure Bush is going to be remembered for the biggest economic collapse since 1929. I think an earlier post indicated that a majority of poll respondents no longer remember that Obama inherited the subprime crisis. Bush? President who?
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May 3, 2014 02:44
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Job Truniht posted:Do you think no one is going to remember a serious attempt to dismantle social security? You are massively overestimating the memory, political interest, and general intelligence of the American public. D&D is not representative.
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May 3, 2014 02:49
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Boon posted:I'm pretty sure Bush is going to be remembered for the biggest economic collapse since 1929. Bush is too smart to have caused that.
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May 3, 2014 02:54
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Swan Oat posted:Bush is too smart to have caused that.  Is that a new av? Because that is hilarious.
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May 3, 2014 02:57
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If you seriously think George W Bush won't be remembered for starting the Iraq War you're dumber than the people you're trying to talk about.
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May 3, 2014 02:57
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I wouldn't call Bush smart but he definitely wasn't the barely literate idiot he gets portrayed as. I'd describe him as being of moderate intelligence without any cleverness or ability to accurately judge those around him. I feel it's more accurate to label him as a very/the most incompetent president.
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May 3, 2014 02:59
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SedanChair posted:I think that I said something to the effect that Bush is perfectly intelligent, uncannily politically astute and a gifted schmoozer, not that he's a "super genius." Funny how people freak out about it though. And what do you know, people don't remember the policies, they remember the man--and they always liked the man. Oh bullshit. I was there. You portrayed him as some sort of Machiavellian genius.
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May 3, 2014 03:00
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I dunno, the 19th century had some pretty incompetent presidents.
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May 3, 2014 03:01
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Former Presidents get Secret Service protection for life, right? I wonder if the SS has foiled attempts on his life or if the left is really just a bunch of blowhards who wanted him to be tried in the ICJ for war crimes which would/will never happen.
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May 3, 2014 03:04
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There are plenty of professional scholars who rank presidents, and don't they usually put Bush in the bottom 10? Or, is the argument that he is in the bottom 10 not because of incompetence, but rather deliberately and intelligently trying to destroy America?
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May 3, 2014 03:04
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Samurai Sanders posted:There are plenty of professional scholars who rank presidents, and don't they usually put Bush in the bottom 10?
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May 3, 2014 03:06
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fits my needs posted:Former Presidents get Secret Service protection for life, right? I wonder if the SS has foiled attempts on his life or if the left is really just a bunch of blowhards who wanted him to be tried in the ICJ for war crimes which would/will never happen. So wanting him to tried for war crimes and not attempting to assassinate a former US president makes you a blowhard? Am I understanding the crazy in this post correctly?
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May 3, 2014 03:07
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Is there a state elections thread yet? I just got a Rick Scott ad that blamed the Florida housing bubble and 2008 recession on Charlie Crist 
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May 3, 2014 03:10
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Luigi Thirty posted:Is there a state elections thread yet? I just got a Rick Scott ad that blamed the Florida housing bubble and 2008 recession on Charlie Crist As a Florida Republican, he was partially responsible for Jeb Bush, who was responsible for George Bush, who was responsible for the recession. Works for me!
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May 3, 2014 03:11
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computer parts posted:If you seriously think George W Bush won't be remembered for starting the Iraq War you're dumber than the people you're trying to talk about. Do people hate Johnson for starting the Vietnam war?
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May 3, 2014 03:19
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SedanChair posted:Do people hate Johnson for starting the Vietnam war?
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May 3, 2014 03:28
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Why would Republicans (of today) be against the Vietnam war?
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May 3, 2014 03:30
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Samurai Sanders posted:Why would Republicans (of today) be against the Vietnam war? Well, a Democrat started it.
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May 3, 2014 03:34
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SedanChair posted:Do people hate Johnson for starting the Vietnam war? Yes. Yes they do, even though technically Eisenhower started our involvement in Vietnam.
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May 3, 2014 03:37
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Alter Ego posted:Yes. Yes they do, even though technically Eisenhower started our involvement in Vietnam. 
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May 3, 2014 03:40
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Alter Ego posted:Yes. Yes they do, even though technically Eisenhower started our involvement in Vietnam. Who does? And we were talking about the Vietnam War, not the beginning of our involvement. If I was talking about the start of our involvement with Iraq, we'd also be talking about Eisenhower instead of Bush.
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May 3, 2014 03:44
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Why is Ford wearing (what appear to be) skis?
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May 3, 2014 03:44
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Gen. Ripper posted:Why is Ford wearing (what appear to be) skis? He was an avid skier apparently? http://www.skimuseum.net/halloffame/hall_of_fame_details.php?HallOfFameID=136
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May 3, 2014 03:56
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fits my needs posted:Former Presidents get Secret Service protection for life, right? I wonder if the SS has foiled attempts on his life or if the left is really just a bunch of blowhards who wanted him to be tried in the ICJ for war crimes which would/will never happen.
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May 3, 2014 03:59
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Good Citizen posted:Has anyone else been hearing a lot of rumblings about Dave Camp's tax reform act recently? I've heard from a lot of proponents recently on the academic side of tax professionals so I've been looking into it and it's basically a way to give all the money to the rich/corporations without the obvious ideological bent of Ryan's crazytime budgets. No more AMT, a permanent tax holiday for repatriation of corporate money, and unlimited IRA contributions stand out as obvious 'you gotta be kidding me' provisions. Yet several people who follow these things much more closely than I are making the case that it has a chance. It has a chance because Pfizer is ditching America to go to the UK. It is literal common sense knowledge that the United States is business unfriendly, the corporate taxes are too high here, and you either dodge the taxes, or you pick up and leave to people who will literally pay you to set up shop there. Business has been very good at recovering, and making sure the Democrats are left a poo poo bag. Class warfare has a price Harry Reid!
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May 3, 2014 04:11
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Are we really going to have to have a discussion on the differences of culpability of enforcing a No Fly Zone vs. an active military campaign with armed troops on the ground and with present goals to decimate and replace an existing regime?
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May 3, 2014 04:13
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Captain_Maclaine posted:How depressingly predictable. I made this gif of him being pumped when he pointed out to Morris that there were not "all those" torture memos, but just a couple of torture memos,   Morris said that he hates what McNamara did, but came away from the interviews liking the human being who did the hateful acts. Morris came away from the Rumsfeld interviews much more angry at Rumsfeld the person.
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May 3, 2014 04:13
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SubponticatePoster posted:Not anymore. GWB is the first who's on limited time. Clinton/HWB/Carter still get lifetime. I know he'll have private security afterward, because he's rich and has good reason to fear for his safety, but part of me still hopes somebody takes a crack at him after his Secret Service detail leaves him. On the other hand it'd be pretty loving pointless, he's already done all the killing and stealing he wanted, and it wouldn't cause anybody in the future to reconsider starting pointless wars and robbing the country blind in the name of the rich.
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May 3, 2014 04:26
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Taking a shot at him is a great way to go immediately to federal prison.
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May 3, 2014 04:26
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mlmp08 posted:I made this gif of him being pumped when he pointed out to Morris that there were not "all those" torture memos, but just a couple of torture memos, The McNamara stuff was kinda scary because it all seemed so "reasonable" in context. Edit: Cheney's secret service protection time has already been extended at least once. I would expect Bush to have protection for some time with the number of people he's angered.
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May 3, 2014 04:27
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mlmp08 posted:I made this gif of him being pumped when he pointed out to Morris that there were not "all those" torture memos, but just a couple of torture memos, That was my take on Fog of War as well, that we were dealing with that most fascinating and difficult example of humanity: an otherwise-decent person who did something really horrible and has been trying, ever since, to square his own sense of self-worth with the nagging tugs of his own conscience. Rumsfeld, by contrast, just comes off as an irredeemable rear end in a top hat, so that he appears as such in Unknown Knowns is unsurprising, if a little disappointing.
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May 3, 2014 04:27
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Job Truniht posted:Do you think no one is going to remember a serious attempt to dismantle social security? You're doing a heckuva job Brownie!
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May 3, 2014 04:27
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SubponticatePoster posted:Not anymore. GWB is the first who's on limited time. Clinton/HWB/Carter still get lifetime. Congress reinstated lifetime coverage in 2012.
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May 3, 2014 04:30
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Pornographic Memory posted:I know he'll have private security afterward, because he's rich and has good reason to fear for his safety, but part of me still hopes somebody takes a crack at him after his Secret Service detail leaves him. On the other hand it'd be pretty loving pointless, he's already done all the killing and stealing he wanted, and it wouldn't cause anybody in the future to reconsider starting pointless wars and robbing the country blind in the name of the rich. What would really be great is seeing him whisked off to the ICJ by UN white helicopters, just to experience the collective aneurysm of the far right that has had their warnings ignored for years.
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May 3, 2014 04:30
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Captain_Maclaine posted:That was my take on Fog of War as well, that we were dealing with that most fascinating and difficult example of humanity: an otherwise-decent person who did something really horrible and has been trying, ever since, to square his own sense of self-worth with the nagging tugs of his own conscience. Rumsfeld, by contrast, just comes off as an irredeemable rear end in a top hat, so that he appears as such in Unknown Knowns is unsurprising, if a little disappointing. Yeah I'm working up the gumption to sit through that. I'm not sure I can handle 105 straight minutes of this: 
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May 3, 2014 04:31
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SubponticatePoster posted:Not anymore. GWB is the first who's on limited time. Clinton/HWB/Carter still get lifetime. http://www.secretservice.gov/faq.shtml#faq9 http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-restores-lifetime-secret-service-for-former-presidents/ Don't think so.
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May 3, 2014 04:36
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SedanChair posted:Yeah I'm working up the gumption to sit through that. I'm not sure I can handle 105 straight minutes of this: My "favorite" exchange was when they were talking about the spread of "enhanced interrogation" techniques from Guantanamo Bay to Iraw and Afghanistan, and how Rumsfeld didn't know anything about it. Morris says something like "What, stuff just happens" and Rumsfeld just goes "Yeah, you know, wars evolve as they go along." That's how he engages with literally everything. "Stuff just sorta happens, you know?"
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May 3, 2014 04:40
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