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Darth Various posted:Three of the Tengri holy sites start out under the realm of Cumania (one of them under the Jewish duke of Khazaria), a fourth is just across the border in Khiva. It's not that hard for AI Cumania to reform Tengri, I've seen it more than once while playing in a completely different part of the map. The various Tengri lords also start with several thousand event troops (I've seen Pechenegs with almost 9k!), so they tend to expand very rapidly. If the AI lucks out and reforms Tengri or the Steppe Blob survives for more than a couple generations they can be pretty powerful. Here's an interesting steppe start going Nestorian: start as Khan Sol of the Pechenegs in 867. This works with other Tengri lords too, but he gets a ton more event troops and is in diplomatic range of the Abbasids. About half the time, one or two unmarried 16 year old Nestorian ladies will spawn in the Abbasid Empire. Divorce your starting wife if you have one, marry the Nestorian lady. Use your pagan Subjugation CB, then use the decision to convert to your spouse's religion. One big advantage to going Nestorian is they start with a Holy Order available for hire, and taking the decision to convert to Nestorian will give you an instant 200 Piety, the exact amount needed to hire the Order of St. Addai. Knock down the strongest Tengri neighbor with your pagan subjugation, then after converting use Holy Wars and your order to conquer the steppes. Later you can try to convert to the Messalian heresy for Zoroastrian incest mechanics and full gender equality whackiness, or something.
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May 4, 2014 16:53
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Pellisworth posted:Later you can try to convert to the Messalian heresy for Zoroastrian incest mechanics and full gender equality whackiness, or something. Do Messalians get any holy orders? In fact does any heresy get holy orders because I've never actually played as a heretic yet.
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May 4, 2014 17:10
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Thrasophius posted:Do Messalians get any holy orders? In fact does any heresy get holy orders because I've never actually played as a heretic yet. If the heresy becomes the new orthodoxy (by growing larger than the parent religion), they gain the holy order. So if you wanted to try gender-equity incest-happy Messalians you could easily get the Nestorian holy order available, same goes for any other heresy. Edit: and as another example I assume as Cathars if you grew larger than the Catholics such that you became the new mainstream and Catholicism is a heresy, you'd get all the formerly Catholic holy orders.
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May 4, 2014 17:42
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I remember seeing a post that detailed what all the different unit types were good/bad at, but I can't remember where it was. Might have been here, might have been the LP thread. It'd be neat if someone could link it. Also, since it got lost in one of my bigger posts, a question. When I hand one of my vassals a kingship, he suddenly gains two "Vassal King" opinion modifiers that are pretty strongly negative. Is that just unavoidable if you have vassal kings? If so, why are there two of them? It seems like a huge disadvantage when your heir inherits and doesn't have the +80 modifier for giving those assholes a kingdom in the first place. Also also, something interesting, even with Absolute Crown Authority in my empire, my vassals have been able to declare holy wars. Possibly because the kingdoms have lower crown authorities? I dunno, but it happens. They also war when a duke fails to retract titles from his counts because he's an incompetent rear end in a top hat, but that's not unexpected.
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May 4, 2014 18:08
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Roland Jones posted:Also also, something interesting, even with Absolute Crown Authority in my empire, my vassals have been able to declare holy wars. Possibly because the kingdoms have lower crown authorities? I dunno, but it happens. They also war when a duke fails to retract titles from his counts because he's an incompetent rear end in a top hat, but that's not unexpected. Crown law only effects de jure territory. So, for example, the king of Brittany who's under the emperor of Brittania can still do whatever he wants.
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May 4, 2014 18:13
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Roland Jones posted:Also, since it got lost in one of my bigger posts, a question. When I hand one of my vassals a kingship, he suddenly gains two "Vassal King" opinion modifiers that are pretty strongly negative. Is that just unavoidable if you have vassal kings? If so, why are there two of them? It seems like a huge disadvantage when your heir inherits and doesn't have the +80 modifier for giving those assholes a kingdom in the first place. No, you should only get 1 vassal king penalty. Again, this was meant to be fixed two patches ago. Either it wasn't or something is pretty strange with your game if trait searching and this don't work 
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May 4, 2014 18:23
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Darkrenown posted:No, you should only get 1 vassal king penalty. Again, this was meant to be fixed two patches ago. Either it wasn't or something is pretty strange with your game if trait searching and this don't work Hrm, I might not have it patched actually. I have a terrible Internet connection so I screwed with my various settings for a lot of programs to make them not do things without me asking it to, since things updating in the background and such would kill things I was actively trying to do at inopportune times, and likewise, since it's a shared connection, unnecessary downloads at the wrong times would piss other people off. Thanks for the tip; I'll investigate and get things updated if they aren't. Edit: Yep, wasn't updated. Gonna get on that now. Thanks again. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 18:45 on May 4, 2014 |
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May 4, 2014 18:30
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Couple questions about characters and stats: 1. When putting together your council, is there any reason not to just find courtiers somewhere else with really high stats and invite them to your court? It doesn't seem like your own courtiers/vassals get much of a relationship boost from being on the council. Seems like as long as they're not heretics/infidels you'd be better off importing supermen from abroad. 2. When marrying my heir, I assume the name of the game is trying to selectively breed high stat/good trait superwives into your bloodline? Only an amazing political opportunity should take priority over eugenics, right?
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May 4, 2014 18:49
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Bold Robot posted:Couple questions about characters and stats: I never really bother with eugenics and try to make my heir's marriages purely political. To each his own there, really.
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May 4, 2014 18:54
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If you focus too much on Eugenics you'll get rolled by neighboring kings with strong allies.
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May 4, 2014 18:54
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Pellisworth posted:Later you can try to convert to the Messalian heresy for Zoroastrian incest mechanics and full gender equality whackiness, or something.
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May 4, 2014 18:58
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Eugenics is pretty overrated, some of my most successful or most fun to play rulers have had lovely stats/traits. Playing as a beloved superman is pretty dull a lot of the time.
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May 4, 2014 19:03
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Bold Robot posted:2. When marrying my heir, I assume the name of the game is trying to selectively breed high stat/good trait superwives into your bloodline? Only an amazing political opportunity should take priority over eugenics, right? It's kind of a balancing act. You need strong allies if you aren't massive so you have to look for them. However, if the best alliances have lovely spouses then you have to look elsewhere so you don't get rolled because your king is a drooling idiot. There's kind of a minigame in picking marriages in that. Sometimes the best wife is also like 7 but your king is 50 but has no heir so what do you do? It's ultimately situational; sometimes you need a strong alliance over eugenics, other times you just want to marry the strong quick person whose lowest stat is a 12.
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May 4, 2014 19:05
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Bold Robot posted:Couple questions about characters and stats: 1. Roleplaying. Keeping locals on your council makes sense for roleplaying. Keeping your local lords happy makes sense. Local lords that love you are also a little less likely to join plots and factions against you. Imports can be troublemakers too. You get penalties for different culture and religion. Most guys won't come, and often the ones that will come hate their current liege because they are jealous or ambitious. Once you are their liege that jealousy penalty applies to you instead. All those slightly malcontent imports are potentially more people to join plots against you. It can be worthwhile, but only if your imports will be significantly better than the locals. Going through the list to find the awesome guys also gets a bit tiresome. 2. You can always marry for eugenics the first time, get some awesome heirs, then marry for alliance the second time. No point holding onto a lowborn wife once her uterus dries up.
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May 4, 2014 19:07
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Bold Robot posted:2. When marrying my heir, I assume the name of the game is trying to selectively breed high stat/good trait superwives into your bloodline? Only an amazing political opportunity should take priority over eugenics, right? It depends on who you're playing as, too. If you're doing something like Zoroastrian where it's you against the world, no one is going to marry to you politically anyway, so go for eugenics. Zoroastrians in particular need it because Xwedodah marriages push you constantly towards inbreeding (which further disincentivizes seeking other marriages), and with concubines you can get a crop of good trait partners to get as many shots for great kids as you can. On the other hand, if you're in the middle of Europe, a political marriage could make or break things. I think non-Zoroastrians with access to concubines can do both, actually, though. Marry politically (as far as it goes; some pagans you may as well be on your own because all the others of your faith are useless), then get some concubines with great traits and get some uber-kids out of them. Then set them aside and take the wives of your enemies for your new concubines.
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May 4, 2014 19:17
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marktheando posted:Eugenics is pretty overrated, some of my most successful or most fun to play rulers have had lovely stats/traits. Playing as a beloved superman is pretty dull a lot of the time. Definitely agree with this, my favourite ruler was entirely mad with barely any good qualities.
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May 4, 2014 19:28
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Bold Robot posted:Couple questions about characters and stats: As long as your spymaster doesn't hate you, which will probably be more difficult if they are a foreigner. A mediocre loyal spymaster is better than a great illoyal (or even ambivalent) spymaster, especially if your own character's intrigue isn't that good.
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May 4, 2014 19:29
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Does anyone know what determines the likelihood of an independence faction sprouting up? I just had one that got up to about 85% of my strength and then died for no particular reason. Most of its members had positive opinions of me, and the leader was a guy with 50 opinion of me and the content trait 
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May 4, 2014 19:59
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Is this -25 "Is vassal king" malus new? Or just something that republics have to deal with? It's my first time playing a republic and it's really throwing me off, cause with the wrong govt penalty and that, my kings are really hard to please.
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May 4, 2014 20:05
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The Moon Monster posted:Does anyone know what determines the likelihood of an independence faction sprouting up? I just had one that got up to about 85% of my strength and then died for no particular reason. Most of its members had positive opinions of me, and the leader was a guy with 50 opinion of me and the content trait The biggest influence on Independence factions is distance from capital. Far off rulers can join Independence factions at pretty drat near 100 opinion. hellsjudge posted:Is this -25 "Is vassal king" malus new? Or just something that republics have to deal with? It's my first time playing a republic and it's really throwing me off, cause with the wrong govt penalty and that, my kings are really hard to please. It's new as of Rajas.
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May 4, 2014 20:05
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Man, who do those kings think they are, anyway? I literally give them their kingdoms, since I am running an empire and need people to oversee parts of its vastness, and they get pissy that, because their kingdom is part of my empire, they're my vassals? gently caress you guys; you may be shahs, but I am the Shahanshah. I am the king of kings. They should have known what they were signing up for when they accepted that kingdom; resenting my dynasty for deigning to bestow temporal power upon them is not a good way to retain one's position. Or one's life. Anyway, patched up now. Holy crap, searching for specifics traits is so nice. This will make my spousal searches and hte like so, so much faster.
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May 4, 2014 20:25
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Roland Jones posted:Anyway, patched up now. Holy crap, searching for specifics traits is so nice. This will make my spousal searches and hte like so, so much faster. I'm so jealous. The map expansion was causing my computer to vomit constantly, I had to roll back to 2.0.4 
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May 4, 2014 20:31
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Angela Christine posted:I'm so jealous. The map expansion was causing my computer to vomit constantly, I had to roll back to 2.0.4 Have you tried a complete reinstall? I had all sorts of bugs and crashes until I did one.
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May 4, 2014 20:41
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marktheando posted:Eugenics is pretty overrated, some of my most successful or most fun to play rulers have had lovely stats/traits. Playing as a beloved superman is pretty dull a lot of the time. Naturally his great reign was followed by all his profligate children tearing the realm apart for a half-century. Lithuania, Poland and Pomerania all gained independence at one point or another, and probably half the dynasty ended up dead in mysterious accidents. It was fun.
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May 4, 2014 20:58
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fool_of_sound posted:Have you tried a complete reinstall? I had all sorts of bugs and crashes until I did one. Yeah, first I tried reboots, then reinstalls, then finally rollback. I have a lovely 6 year old computer with 3GBs of RAM running windows 8, lots of games just go "LOL, no" and refuse to work at all. This was at least launching, but every time it tried to save there was alike 50/50 chance it would just freeze up and collapse. This way will do until I get around to getting a new machine.
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May 4, 2014 21:05
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Motherfucker. Guess I learned the hard way not to join another mans revolt when playing a republic. I decided to help out a fairly big Italian revolt because it was a way to get the Karlings off that throne. When we won the revolt I got treated to this:  and it was going so well too.
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May 4, 2014 21:16
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Council appointments for marginally talented vassals are good for making them like you.
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May 4, 2014 21:26
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Playing as the Duke of Apulia, I forged a claim on Amalfi and conquered it right off the bat. Now I'm getting a warning that the County of Amalfi is the wrong type of holding for my demesne. Why is this? What's wrong with a Duke holding a County?
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May 4, 2014 21:27
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Bold Robot posted:Playing as the Duke of Apulia, I forged a claim on Amalfi and conquered it right off the bat. Now I'm getting a warning that the County of Amalfi is the wrong type of holding for my demesne. Why is this? What's wrong with a Duke holding a County? The top level holding in that county is a city, which can only be held properly by a republic. If you get a castle in that county, it will become the new top level holding for the county. So either get stabbing a baron or outright revoke it, or hand the county out to some random dude and make him a vassal republic later for the $$$.
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May 4, 2014 21:30
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Allyn posted:The top level holding in that county is a city, which can only be held properly by a republic. If you get a castle in that county, it will become the new top level holding for the county. So either get stabbing a baron or outright revoke it, or hand the county out to some random dude and make him a vassal republic later for the $$$. I like the sound of the $$$. How can I make it into a vassal republic?
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May 4, 2014 21:36
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Bold Robot posted:Playing as the Duke of Apulia, I forged a claim on Amalfi and conquered it right off the bat. Now I'm getting a warning that the County of Amalfi is the wrong type of holding for my demesne. Why is this? What's wrong with a Duke holding a County? Amalfi has a city for a capital holding, rather than a castle like most other provinces, so as a Duke you're penalised for holding the county. You can get rid of that message by giving the county to a mayor or a lowborn, or revoking/building a castle in that province so it'll switch capitals (or giving the county to a baron in that province). edit: beaten. But for your second question, merchant republics have to be duke or king level, so when you form Sicily or whatever just hand out a duchy to the mayor you gave Amalfi to and it'll recreate the Republic of Amalfi, except as a vassal that you can tax. Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 21:40 on May 4, 2014 |
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May 4, 2014 21:37
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Dallan Invictus posted:Amalfi has a city for a capital holding, rather than a castle like most other provinces, so as a Duke you're penalised for holding the county. You can get rid of that message by giving the county to a mayor or a lowborn, or revoking/building a castle in that province so it'll switch capitals (or giving the county to a baron in that province). Thanks. Just as a strategy matter, what is the best play here? It sounds like working towards a vassal republic would increase my tax revenues in the long term, but is there some countervailing consideration why I might want to keep it as a feudal vassal?
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May 4, 2014 21:45
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Bold Robot posted:Playing as the Duke of Apulia, I forged a claim on Amalfi and conquered it right off the bat. Now I'm getting a warning that the County of Amalfi is the wrong type of holding for my demesne. Why is this? What's wrong with a Duke holding a County? Amalfi is a merchant republic in the old god start, so your primary holding is probably a city in that county. If it had a barony revoking it will fix the problem...otherwise give it away or build a barony. Edit: way beaten, oops
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May 4, 2014 21:47
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If you create a vassal republic he will have a permanent -30 (I think, it is 30) opinion malus for "Wrong government type" but that is really the only thing to keep in mind.
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May 4, 2014 21:48
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Rincewind posted:Council appointments for marginally talented vassals are good for making them like you. If they have the ambition to become that particular councilor they get +1 to that stat and an additional +20 relations. (Although they never pick the right stat  )
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May 4, 2014 22:09
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StashAugustine posted:If they have the ambition to become that particular councilor they get +1 to that stat and an additional +20 relations. (Although they never pick the right stat I don't think I've ever had that ambition line up with a council appointment. 
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May 4, 2014 22:14
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Bold Robot posted:Thanks. Just as a strategy matter, what is the best play here? It sounds like working towards a vassal republic would increase my tax revenues in the long term, but is there some countervailing consideration why I might want to keep it as a feudal vassal? They'll make you tons of money both from taxes and by their trade posts amplifying all the city tax income in their trade zones. Since patrician families are not as cool and fancy as true nobles, they have to pay a bride price so I guess you could sell them your unwanted daughters?? As was mentioned, however, they don't like being ruled by nobles and will have a permanent -30 relations penalty toward you. So try and make sure they're the same religion and culture as you and don't hand them King titles. Edit: you can make your own quite easily, too. All you need is a coastal duchy and there are tons of those. Conquer or own a coastal county, and instead of handing off the capital castle to someone, select the baron-level mayor of the vassal city and grant him the county title. Then the duchy title. Hey presto, a coastal duchy which then becomes a merchant republic and spawns five patrician families. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 22:59 on May 4, 2014 |
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May 4, 2014 22:55
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Well, I have a Norse Sweden game and got pretty far, forming empire of Scandinavia and so forth and reformed the faith so all is good. However, a couple of weird issues. I'm at 3 Military Organisation yet when holy warring pagans I still get the ridiculous attrition and also, there's an issue with the Jomsvikings that when they enter any pagan territory (I haven't tested on Catholics yet) they immediately lose a 'battle' even with no enemy troops around and retreat. This, frankly, sort of sucks. Did I miss something in a patch? I think this particular game is maybe a patch, at most two, old.
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May 4, 2014 23:07
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NLJP posted:Well, I have a Norse Sweden game and got pretty far, forming empire of Scandinavia and so forth and reformed the faith so all is good. However, a couple of weird issues. I'm at 3 Military Organisation yet when holy warring pagans I still get the ridiculous attrition and also, there's an issue with the Jomsvikings that when they enter any pagan territory (I haven't tested on Catholics yet) they immediately lose a 'battle' even with no enemy troops around and retreat. This, frankly, sort of sucks. You need 4 military organization to avoid the pagan defensive attrition, not 3. Also I think the Jomsvikings thing is because they're a holy order, and "Pagan" is technically all one religious group, so what they're doing is refusing to fight people of their own religion. It doesn't actually make a whole lot of sense realistically, because of the fact that "Pagan" is a much wider umbrella than the other religious groups, but that's probably what's happening mechanically.
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May 4, 2014 23:11
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When making your own republic, is it better to use one of your spare kinsmen or a stranger as the starting mayor? With a kinsman you get the same dynasty + to help set off the wrong government - but is there any particular downside?
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May 4, 2014 23:21
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