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LGK doesn't want to summon me 
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May 5, 2014 20:53
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laplace posted:The Widda Palace, with its Widda Queen who is literally just Mytha, down to the arena being similar and the Widda Queen just clearly being Mytha 1.0 design wise I'm going to puke trying to watch this video what in the world is going on.
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May 5, 2014 20:54
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laplace posted:The Old Witch's Ring and the Ring of the Accursed both have similar looking strange engravings was the link, IIRC. Back when Dark Souls was released people were all up in arms about it. That and the fact that she also casts pyromancies with a catalyst were the direct links people were referencing. Dark Souls 2 is super King's Field 4, yeah, but I think a more likely explanation is not "this is the same universe" but rather "From Software likes toying around with a lot of the same ideas." Like both games have golems, but they also operate on different rules. Both Dark Souls and King's Field 4 have snake people, but in one they're just sort of guards and in the other there's some sort of cult implications to them. New Londo fell out of a very clear lust for power, whereas the sunken city in King's Field 4 fell because they went too far to the dark. Just like the Passage of Light is all hosed up despite ostensibly being "good". Even the king admits they went too far to the Light. The consistent them of King's Field 4 seems to be the need for balance - at least with crazy magic. Dark Souls 2 is more about desire and cycles than balance. To be honest I don't remember much about King's Field's final boss other than it being not great, but Nashandra reminds me more of Nito than that Geigeresque pulsating flesh hell. Also gently caress Widda Palace and its god drat giant serpents. I'm glad they've never come back. TGLT fucked around with this message at 20:58 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 20:56
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Yodzilla posted:I'm going to puke trying to watch this video what in the world is going on. FROM's plan: steal content from obscure nausea simulator (vvEDIT: made...by...themselves?) so that no one can watch long enough to verify the theft. turtlecrunch fucked around with this message at 20:59 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 20:56
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^^ Fromsoft made said game.Yodzilla posted:I'm going to puke trying to watch this video what in the world is going on. There is a criminally low amount of King's Field footage on the internet. I'm just working with what I got! Though this guy does sort of cheese the battle. Slightly unrelated, but I want to make note that I've only played the souls/kf games in Japanese, so while most of the time I do check the wiki for the English translations of item descriptions old stuff, King's Field items and dialogue specifically are mostly paraphrased through my brain translation. Demon's Souls dialogue slips in there too but since the Dub is in English I usually remember that stuff. edit: TGLT posted:Dark Souls 2 is super King's Field 4, yeah, but I think a more likely explanation is not "this is the same universe" but rather "From Software likes toying around with a lot of the same ideas." Like both games have golems, but they also operate on different rules. Both Dark Souls and King's Field 4 have snake people, but in one they're just sort of guards and in the other there's some sort of cult implications to them. New Londo fell out of a very clear lust for power, whereas the sunken city in King's Field 4 fell because they went too far to the dark. Just like the Passage of Light is all hosed up despite ostensibly being "good". Even the king admits they went too far to the Light. The consistent them of King's Field 4 seems to be the need for balance - at least with crazy magic. Dark Souls 2 is more about desire and cycles than balance. I'm with you on the idea that From likes to reuse stuff, but specifically with DkS2 they do a lot of winking while poking the audience and mentioning "This kingdom was built on the ashes of others, What did it used to be called? I forgot....". Also, New Londo fell to the Dark because they wanted power, and so did the Ancient city -- The Dark wasn't just a spout of evil, The queen was pushed to seek it, and the engineer was interested in it. It's all the same story there. The only reason I think they're even the same universe remotely is because of this game and the aforementioned dialogue and Shanalotte's whole cycle of fate spiel/dragons are forever garbage. I'm with you though on the Giant Serpents, though they kind of are back in the form of those loving fire lizards. laplace fucked around with this message at 21:01 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 20:57
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Kaldaris posted:So is maining Pyromancy just a bad idea optimization wise? Because I really like big flashy boomy effects. Pyro spells are less optimized as a main form of attack than Miracles, Sorceries, or Hexes. The closest thing pyromancy has to a Soul Arrow/Lightning Spear/Dark Orb, the Fireball/Fire Orb type spells, have lousy damage and terrible ammo efficiency, which means you'll run into a lot of problems trying to use just pyro to kill everything. Where pyro excels is in huge area of effects and massive burst damage, meaning it's really meant to complement another form of attack. Spells like Flame Swathe, Firestorm, and Forbidden Sun all emphasize what pyromancy is best at: low ammo count, huge burst damage spells that cover ridiculously huge areas. tldr: Pyromancy is absolutely excellent but is really hard to use as your main source of damage for long dungeon crawls.
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May 5, 2014 20:58
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laplace posted:The Old Witch's Ring and the Ring of the Accursed both have similar looking strange engravings was the link, IIRC. Back when Dark Souls was released people were all up in arms about it. That and the fact that she also casts pyromancies with a catalyst were the direct links people were referencing. Just because a game has similar themes doesn't mean it's necessarily the same world. See Final Fantasy, for example. Not that it matters but Dark Souls is probably a different universe and I don't think the "many kingdoms have stood here" refers to anything other than Lordran and Drangleic as well as whatever came in between. It's heavily implied that Drangleic is just Lordran after many cycles have passed, especially bearing in mind that once the fire starts to break down the worlds become thin and time/space warps. Think of Hyrule between Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, though less obvious. Also the Witch of Izalith created pyromancy, she doesn't just have the 'power cast it' or whatever. She and the other Lords are literally Gods that helped create the world and have existed since the beginning of time, that doesn't really fit with your theory unless if the creation myths for both Demon Souls and Kings Field are the same as Dark Souls (they aren't). It doesn't matter anyway, Dark Souls lore is basically "whatever fits, make your mind up" down to the actual ending directly stating this.
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May 5, 2014 20:59
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Is the smelter demon DS2's version of the capra demon in just being horrible to fight?
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May 5, 2014 21:00
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laplace posted:There is a criminally low amount of King's Field footage on the internet. I'm just working with what I got! Though this guy does sort of cheese the battle. It's not like the game's particularly pretty anyways. King's Field 4 came out in 2001. All this talk of King's Field reminds me that I still need to play Shadow Tower Abyss at some point. I know the stamina system has its roots in that game. Curious what else they might have referenced in the Souls series that goes back to Shadow Tower.
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May 5, 2014 21:01
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Jose posted:Is the smelter demon DS2's version of the capra demon in just being horrible to fight? No, he just punishes idiots that rely on their shields too much. He also has a weird tempo compared to other bosses.
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May 5, 2014 21:01
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Kanos posted:Pyro spells are less optimized as a main form of attack than Miracles, Sorceries, or Hexes. The closest thing pyromancy has to a Soul Arrow/Lightning Spear/Dark Orb, the Fireball/Fire Orb type spells, have lousy damage and terrible ammo efficiency, which means you'll run into a lot of problems trying to use just pyro to kill everything.
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May 5, 2014 21:01
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Jose posted:Is the smelter demon DS2's version of the capra demon in just being horrible to fight? Nah he just brutally murdered people trying to take the safe route and sword & board their way through the game. Capra Demon was a bitch because of a brutally tiny arena, bad camera, and dogs. Also Smelter is one of the few bosses who legitimately change throughout the fight which I think is kinda neat.
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May 5, 2014 21:03
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Everyone who likes the Souls Games should go back and play King's Field and DEFINITELY play Shadow Tower Abyss. I like KF4 more than it but Shadow Tower Abyss is also a very good game. If you think that Dark Souls 2 has a hell of a durability system, you haven't even seen what From can do. Shadow Tower Abyss is even worse. Edit: I also totally agree that Drangleic is Lordran. I just also believe that Drangleic is Lordran is Boletaria is the kingdom of Heladin/the ancient city/ whatever the gently caress that place was called. For the exact reasons you mentioned.
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May 5, 2014 21:03
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Summoning Lucatiel is actually really helpful for the Smelter Demon now.
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May 5, 2014 21:03
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Jose posted:Is the smelter demon DS2's version of the capra demon in just being horrible to fight? Capra is actually the meta of DS2 enemy tactics. Smelter is learn2roll as previously stated, but with extra-absurd tracking and hitboxes. 
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May 5, 2014 21:04
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Still, I'm gonna go with the Astarea-statue connection. Its too loving cool to ignore 
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May 5, 2014 21:05
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Yodzilla posted:Nah he just brutally murdered people trying to take the safe route and sword & board their way through the game. Capra Demon was a bitch because of a brutally tiny arena, bad camera, and dogs. oh thank god. I hated fighting the capra demon trying to take out the dogs and dodging everything without accidentally dodging into something. of course this time I'm using magic only so far and the timing on it is killing me on bosses since it doesn't stun them and isn't as quick as a sword
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May 5, 2014 21:07
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Dark Souls 2's Capra Demon equivalent are the Ruin Sentinels, you start the fight in close quarters, are immediately attacked before having the time to check your surroundings, and it's probably the first boss where you have to fight against multiple targets.
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May 5, 2014 21:08
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Smelter gets a ton easier if you just use common dang sense and stack some fire resistance, especially if you're a melee build. Attune flash sweat or buy a couple orange burrs. Sometimes preparing counters for a boss's attacks is better than just trying to Be Perfect with your dodging and force whatever build you've decided to use. (also he can be poisoned for no comprehensible reason)
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May 5, 2014 21:09
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Kanfy posted:Dark Souls 2's Capra Demon equivalent are the Ruin Sentinels, you start the fight in close quarters, are immediately attacked before having the time to check your surroundings, and it's probably the first boss where you have to fight against multiple targets. Its actually the black phantom after the gargoyles  .
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May 5, 2014 21:10
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If I want to go pure caster is it still worth shoving some points into Str/Dex to equip a non-poo poo sword for Magic Weapon? I've reached the Shaded Woods and a couple of times I've been dangerously close to running out of casts on a couple of bosses because so far a pure Int/Faith build doesn't really seem any more powerful than meleeing. Soul Arrow still does around the same damage as a similar SL dude swinging the Bastard Sword. edit; I guess I was expecting casters to be stronger than melee since you take a bigger risk with lower armour and no access to good weaponry or shields. Is this not the case in Souls games? Pierson fucked around with this message at 21:14 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 21:11
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Pierson posted:If I want to go pure caster is it still worth shoving some points into Str/Dex to equip a non-poo poo sword for Magic Weapon? I've reached the Shaded Woods and a couple of times I've been dangerously close to running out of casts on a couple of bosses because so far it doesn't really seem any more powerful. Soul Arrow still does around the same damage as a similar SL dude swinging the Bastard Sword. There's an area of Shaded Woods with enemies that are extremely resistant to magic but vulnerable to melee damage. So it would probably be worth it to at least be able to equip a decent sword or maybe a dagger for backstabs. Yearn is also a good spell to have for that, so get it if you don't have it already.
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May 5, 2014 21:13
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Kanfy posted:Dark Souls 2's Capra Demon equivalent are the Ruin Sentinels, you start the fight in close quarters, are immediately attacked before having the time to check your surroundings, and it's probably the first boss where you have to fight against multiple targets. I had to use summons for these because my only attacks were soul arrow and great soul arrow and they did poo poo all damage
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May 5, 2014 21:13
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Drakes posted:Its actually the black phantom after the gargoyles Except that guy doesn't show up for a few seconds, giving you a chance to clear out the dogs. The capra demon is on top of you before your brain has a chance to even process what's happening, and that's 90% of the challenge.
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May 5, 2014 21:14
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Smelter is the perfect example of kill it faster so you have dodge less. Two hand and Pine Resin!
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May 5, 2014 21:15
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For some reason nobody expects the drangeleic swords moveset, the amount of people I've killed with a strong attack combo at 20 END is sort of staggering. Belfry Luna is way more fun than Sol since you're much more constrained.
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May 5, 2014 21:15
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Calidus posted:Smelter is the perfect example of kill it faster so you have dodge less. Two hand and Pine Resin! Yeah, this. Smelter demon is like the Four Kings, but with only one of them.
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May 5, 2014 21:17
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It's less that they don't expect the moveset and more that its hitbox is completely hosed in multiplayer, similarly to the washing pole.
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May 5, 2014 21:17
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Pierson posted:If I want to go pure caster is it still worth shoving some points into Str/Dex to equip a non-poo poo sword for Magic Weapon? I've reached the Shaded Woods and a couple of times I've been dangerously close to running out of casts on a couple of bosses because so far a pure Int/Faith build doesn't really seem any more powerful. Soul Arrow still does around the same damage as a similar SL dude swinging the Bastard Sword. In Shaded Woods you're just going to be using your dagger to backstab the later enemies and running like a ninny from the ghostmen. As far as weapons overall - provided this is not your first run, consult a wiki to find out where to get all your magics. Sequence break as much as you like to get an adequate number of casts (though FOFG is still a good idea to do first - you get 2 more Soul Arrows and Great Soul Arrow there). You may have to leech off phantoms for a while or choose to run through.
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May 5, 2014 21:18
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Party Plane Jones posted:For some reason nobody expects the drangeleic swords moveset, the amount of people I've killed with a strong attack combo at 20 END is sort of staggering. Belfry Luna is way more fun than Sol since you're much more constrained. Literally everyone I have fought in Drangleic armor with the Drangleic sword today has been beyond awful, so they probably don't expect someone to use it properly.
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May 5, 2014 21:18
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Kaldaris posted:So is maining Pyromancy just a bad idea optimization wise? Because I really like big flashy boomy effects. I think pyromancy is better with more options. Forbidden Sun and Greater Combustion do about 760-770 for me in PvP, never bothered PvE.  My int/fth is 50/24 but they get bonus from straids mask. Pierson posted:If I want to go pure caster is it still worth shoving some points into Str/Dex to equip a non-poo poo sword for Magic Weapon? I've reached the Shaded Woods and a couple of times I've been dangerously close to running out of casts on a couple of bosses because so far a pure Int/Faith build doesn't really seem any more powerful than meleeing. Soul Arrow still does around the same damage as a similar SL dude swinging the Bastard Sword. Even knowing I was going to be building a caster I did everything PvE with my mace anyway because melee is still a good option when you know the move sets. Spell Chat~ If you can bait a player into doing what you want everything is easier to hit. Crystal Homing Mass getting the roll, followed by Soul Great Sword is one the most common combos, if they fail the roll both hit and they are dead or 1/4 hp. If they roll CHM the sword often hits. The same idea works with the Homing Arrows, you throw out a slow moving projectile wait for it to be near hitting and when they try to dodge the homing spell throw out a fast spell like Forbidden sun or Soul Spear. Soul Great Sword is really good, especially in the bell tower, goes through the walls, goes through the stairs, jump in a hole and stand a bit back, cast soon as they start to fall. If you've got people who like to roll through Soul Great Sword towards you start punishing with Greater Combustion, if they start to take note and stay out of range of combustion, Fire Whip has slightly longer range but slower start up also seems easier to roll through. Forbidden Sun Comes out very quick, but if someone is strafing you it will miss. Good to combo with slower projectiles or punish slow casting spells/chug. I use Soul Vortex to create space. Sometimes I hit with it, but I only cast unlocked other wise if they roll it will go right into the ground. I think the hex Darkstorm is probably better, but I don't want to be swapping so many weapons. Even has a caster you can do damage with melee, don't give up on any tricks, if spells aren't working club that face. I have both a +10 magic, and +10 dark mace, it feels like the magic mace with CMW only hits for 370ish where the dark mace with resonate hits for 550ish. I didn't bother to bonfire/kill lost sinner so I haven't tested a fire one. I think I spiced down Greater Heal, and Greater Magic Barrier, but haven't been using for NG PVP, might use more in NG+ Nezkar fucked around with this message at 21:32 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 21:18
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Orv posted:Literally everyone I have fought in Drangleic armor with the Drangleic sword today has been beyond awful, so they probably don't expect someone to use it properly. I killed a guy wearing a full Havel Set and wielding a great shield with it. I was shocked. The armor set isn't that great for the weight though it's better than a lot of sets you get that early.
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May 5, 2014 21:30
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Fister Roboto posted:Yeah, this. Smelter demon is like the Four Kings, but with only one of them. Four kings for me was "havels and mash r1." Smelter isn't like that at all!
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May 5, 2014 21:31
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Just got summoned to the old Dragonslayer fight and the host + other phantom... rushed for the corner and waited for me to solo the boss. They just stood there and watched. Took about 100 soul arrows but okay I guess
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May 5, 2014 21:31
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Pierson posted:If I want to go pure caster is it still worth shoving some points into Str/Dex to equip a non-poo poo sword for Magic Weapon? I've reached the Shaded Woods and a couple of times I've been dangerously close to running out of casts on a couple of bosses because so far a pure Int/Faith build doesn't really seem any more powerful than meleeing. Soul Arrow still does around the same damage as a similar SL dude swinging the Bastard Sword. Sorcery in both Demon's and Dark Souls was OP as poo poo. Likely as a result they nerfed sorcery in this. It's how they did that's interesting. Rather than making it weaker they made it so you can't get a good magic bonus staff until you're about 80% of the way through the game. There is the Lizard Staff, which is a good sorcery staff, but it's a rare drop from the necromancers in the Copse, so good luck getting that. On the other hand, miracles and hexes are much stronger, with hexes now being OP as poo poo. Dark Orb is gonna be about as strong as Great Heavy Soul arrow, and the Resonant Soul spells are very powerful. That said, you're also thinking about magic wrong. You can go pure casting if you want; it's just as viable as it was in Demon's since you can restore spell uses with the herbs. But you shouldn't limit yourself to that. Just because you're doing an Int/Fth/Hex build doesn't mean you shouldn't put enough points into str/dex to use a straight sword or something. Similarly, being a caster doesn't mean you can't wear heavy armor either.
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May 5, 2014 21:31
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Fister Roboto posted:Yeah, this. Smelter demon is like the Four Kings, but with only one of them.
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May 5, 2014 21:32
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Spooky Bear Ghost posted:No, he just punishes idiots that rely on their shields too much. He also has a weird tempo compared to other bosses. Unless you get enough strength to get a shield that can just tank him.  Unless you have perfect dodge timing (which is impossible online, and not demanded in any other fight in the game) or said shield Smelter Demon is crazy bullshit.
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May 5, 2014 21:35
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Cardiovorax posted:That's kind of an overstatement. On non-resistant enemies, a +10 Pyromancy Flame Fireball spell can expect to do about 400 damage, which is about equal to what a Great Heavy Soul Arrow would do at similar amounts of Int and a staff with equivalent attack rating. The ranee and number of casts is total poo poo, though, which is the bigger problem than damage. 400 damage on a spell with 6-8 shots is really, really bad compared to 400 damage on a spell with 12 or more and better range in the same slot, especially given what other pyromancy is capable of putting up for the same cost in slots. Fireball/Fire Orb are pretty much terrible.
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May 5, 2014 21:35
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Elysiume posted:Four Kings you basically couldn't dodge or run away because you had to maximize DPS over all else. I'd say that Four Kings is the single worst fight in DS1/DS2. It's the one that stopped my fist weapons run.  I hate the Four Kings.
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May 5, 2014 21:38
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Jose posted:I had to use summons for these because my only attacks were soul arrow and great soul arrow and they did poo poo all damage Lighting spear pretty handily stretches and lubes their buttholes
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May 5, 2014 21:39
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