|
gay picnic defence posted:Yeah, some of then non-vinifera grapevines are pretty cold tolerant, they just have that overpowering foxy, grape jelly flavour as opposed to the flavours of traditional grape varieties. I guess some people just like the idea of the winery/vineyard lifestyle despite living pretty close tot he arctic circle. There's also that argument that British Columbia is going to be the new Napa, England is going to be the new Bordeaux, and Paso Robles is just going to burst into flames amidst legions of post-apocalyptic refugees from climate change. One of the things I love to show to people is to take a map of the world, and show them Australia and Sicily. One is huge and the other is tiny, yet they make comparable amounts of wine each year and sometimes the tiny Sicily is ahead. Yet all of Sicily is perfect for making wine, while the vast majority of the landmass of Australia is not. There was also a book a few years back about African wine--aside from the well-known South African wine industry, wine is made in various places that are serious about making local communion wine only (similar to the settlement of the Americas), but of course it is difficult to make wine in North Africa due to the Muslim majority. The story of the Algerian wine industry in the 20th century during the French colonial period is crazy: Wikipedia posted:The high point of the Algerian wine industry came in the late 1930s when over 4,000 square kilometres (1,500 sq mi) was producing more 2,100 megalitres (550,000,000 US gal) of wine. By the 1950s, together with Tunisia and Morocco, Algeria wine accounted for nearly two thirds of the wine that was internationally traded.
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 02:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 14:37 |
|
|
Hah! I like how they use word "traded" as if it were bartered for battery acid or something after finding out it was itself a poor substitute for battery acid.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 03:37
|
|
|
Can't we just turn bad wine grapes into cognac or whatever grain alcohol?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 16:50
|
|
|
caberham posted:Can't we just turn bad wine grapes into cognac or whatever grain alcohol? That used to happen in France, with hundreds of millions of bottles of unsold wine being converted into ethanol for cars and other industrial applications. The wine industry was subsidized, so farmers would produce as much wine as they possibly could. The system has since been reformed. While it's better than just dumping it, if you want to make pure alcohol, there are far cheaper, faster, and better ways to do it than making wine first.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2014 21:59
|
|
|
Overwined posted:Hah! I like how they use word "traded" as if it were bartered for battery acid or something after finding out it was itself a poor substitute for battery acid. The old seaside Keo brewery/winery in Cyprus still has the enormous pipes used to pump vast volumes of lovely wine into the holds of tanker ships heading to the USSR.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2014 00:20
|
|
|
I went to the wine store last night. I walked out with St. Germaine instead of wine, but I did get a niice big booklet that goes into detail about wine from different regions, so that was pretty cool.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2014 19:26
|
|
|
Loud Mouse posted:I went to the wine store last night. I walked out with St. Germaine instead of wine, but I did get a niice big booklet that goes into detail about wine from different regions, so that was pretty cool. That's ok, St. Germain is delicious and might be my favorite bottle design besides maybe Aviation gin.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2014 19:49
|
|
|
Just got my green (Advanced) somm pin gentlemen! One step closer to the ultimate goal, but yet still so drat far. The test was brutal, I was sure yet again that I didn't pass the theory portion, it was heavy on Spain, one of my weaker countries. Tasting was my strong suit. Don't want to look at a flashcard for at least a couple months.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2014 22:01
|
|
|
Crimson posted:Just got my green (Advanced) somm pin gentlemen! One step closer to the ultimate goal, but yet still so drat far. The test was brutal, I was sure yet again that I didn't pass the theory portion, it was heavy on Spain, one of my weaker countries. Tasting was my strong suit. Don't want to look at a flashcard for at least a couple months. That's a real accomplishment! Thank you for sharing it and CONGRATULATIONS!! I have a friend that took it a couple of times and he confirms that it's an absolutely brutal test, a BIG step up in difficulty from the CS exam. I have a ton of questions for you, but they can wait. Enjoy your new fancy pin!
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2014 22:19
|
|
|
Crimson posted:Just got my green (Advanced) somm pin gentlemen! One step closer to the ultimate goal, but yet still so drat far. The test was brutal, I was sure yet again that I didn't pass the theory portion, it was heavy on Spain, one of my weaker countries. Tasting was my strong suit. Don't want to look at a flashcard for at least a couple months. Awesome, congratulations! Especially admirable after the stress and craziness of recently taking a new position. I take it that means you're going for your Master?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 04:24
|
|
|
Overwined posted:That's a real accomplishment! Thank you for sharing it and CONGRATULATIONS!! I have a friend that took it a couple of times and he confirms that it's an absolutely brutal test, a BIG step up in difficulty from the CS exam. I have a ton of questions for you, but they can wait. Enjoy your new fancy pin! Thanks, and fire away! Kasumeat posted:Awesome, congratulations! Especially admirable after the stress and craziness of recently taking a new position. I take it that means you're going for your Master? Definitely. I'll probably apply in 2 years. Next year would be too soon, I have too many deficiencies to work on. I'm going to pursue the Certified Cicerone for sure, and either Certified Specialist of Spirits or USBG's Master Mixologist program to round out my theory. They asked what "Naturtrüb" meant on a bottle of beer, and what Zwack was. Missed both those. Need to round out my knowledge outside of wine!
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 10:41
|
|
|
That's getting a little more in-depth into beer than I would have expected at Advanced. Scary. Regarding tasting, I would love to hear about what they're pouring to get a sense of the difficulty. If not the specific wines, is it broken into 2 easy, 2 moderate, and 2 hard wines or something like that? Moderate across the board? For service, was it the usual nail-your-steps-of-service-while-taking-an-oral-exam or did it venture into Dlynn's service-esque gently caress-you guests a la Somm? Would love to hear those and anything else helpful you might be willing to share.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 18:36
|
|
|
I'd say the wines aren't especially difficult at the advanced level. They're really testing your proficiency at nailing classic wines, and fully breaking them down through the grid without missing any boxes. Your theory should make sense (e.g. don't call high alcohol and a cool climate growing region). Also, I don't know what the wines were except from my guesses and talking to others afterwards and coming to a consensus. They don't ever reveal them to you. I thought the wines were very straight forward. Easier than the difficult lineups I've put myself through. The most difficult was probably what I guessed as a pinot grigio from Trentino-Alto Adige. Defined by not smelling or tasting like a whole lot and just a bit of lees contact, it can be difficult when you're having trouble pulling good descriptors out. But that's when you start thinking it might be p. grigio. I think the lineup was: Rheingau Dry Riesling, Pinot Grigio, Cote de Beaune White Burg (probably at least 1er Cru), Willamette Pinot, Brunello di Montalcino, and Aussie Shiraz. I guessed red burgundy for the Willamette, and Cornas for the Aussie. The Shiraz was really restrained and of super high quality for Australia so I took it elsewhere, but I think it was just a superb example, like a Henschke instead of a big Molly Dooker style. In the service they mess with you a little bit, but not to the same degree as in the Master. 3 stations, generally a red decanting station, a champagne service station, and a station doing pairing recommendations and some light "admin" work on calculating wine prices based on cost. That last station also involves identifying spirits blind by smell. They do employ a few tricks to see how you handle it, e.g. telling you to stop decanting right away to get them a beer. They try to make the recommendations a little harder by throwing out the easy answers ("recommend me a European lager that is not Stella or Heineken"). They'll make you give a few until they pick one. While you're opening the bottle of Champagne they'll interrupt you right as your about to pop the cork to ask for a picture of the bottle or something to that effect, to see if you remove your thumb from the top of the cork, which is of course unsafe once the cage has been loosened.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2014 21:11
|
|
|
Crimson posted:I'd say the wines aren't especially difficult at the advanced level. They're really testing your proficiency at nailing classic wines, and fully breaking them down through the grid without missing any boxes. Your theory should make sense (e.g. don't call high alcohol and a cool climate growing region). Also, I don't know what the wines were except from my guesses and talking to others afterwards and coming to a consensus. They don't ever reveal them to you. I thought the wines were very straight forward. Easier than the difficult lineups I've put myself through. The most difficult was probably what I guessed as a pinot grigio from Trentino-Alto Adige. Defined by not smelling or tasting like a whole lot and just a bit of lees contact, it can be difficult when you're having trouble pulling good descriptors out. But that's when you start thinking it might be p. grigio. Truly amazing writeup, thank you so much. Rheingau dry Riesling though? I really think (hope) that's not testable, we have that on our market maybe one week per year, and it's not listed on the (very recently updated) testable grapes section of Guildsomm. Cool vintage of Alsace maybe?
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2014 18:49
|
|
|
I've decided I'm the most classless wine drinker. I've tried tons of wines that are touted as amazing and complex. And I don't get it. My favorites have been Gewurztraminers (both dry and sweet). I also really liked The Duchess from Wellington. This kind of tells me that looking for general recommendations is probably not a good idea. Are there any other varietals I should keep an eye out for? edit This makes it seem like I don't drink reds. I honestly haven't drunk a cab I liked, and I tried a really beautiful Syrah that I just couldn't finish because it was so bold and overwhelming. I did really like the Zinfandels I tried though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2014 01:51
|
|
|
Rurutia posted:I've decided I'm the most classless wine drinker. I've tried tons of wines that are touted as amazing and complex. And I don't get it. My favorites have been Gewurztraminers (both dry and sweet). I also really liked The Duchess from Wellington. This kind of tells me that looking for general recommendations is probably not a good idea. Are there any other varietals I should keep an eye out for?
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2014 02:26
|
|
|
that Vai sound posted:Sounds like you might like wines on the fruitier side with low tannin. You could look into New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc. Oooh, Wikipedia certainly has an interesting endorsement for NZ Sauvignon Blanc: "New Zealand Sauvignon blanc is like a child who inherits the best of both parents—exotic aromas found in certain Sauvignon blancs from the New World and the pungency and limy acidity of an Old World Sauvignon blanc like Sancerre from the Loire Valley" (Oldman, p. 152). One critic said that drinking one's first New Zealand Sauvignon blanc was like having sex for the first time (Taber, p. 244) Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2014 02:32
|
|
|
Try some Australian Grenache, and maybe some Viognier from California or Rhone Valley. You may like Torrontes from Argentina, but man I have a hard time recommending that to anyone. Smells and tastes like soap and fabric softener.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2014 06:24
|
|
|
Rurutia posted:Oooh, Wikipedia certainly has an interesting endorsement for NZ Sauvignon Blanc: NZ Sauv Blanc: passionfruit, grapefruit, fresh cut grass, cat piss. Can be enjoyable and it's a good wine to break in wine newbies. Not sure what it says about that dude's first time though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2014 07:17
|
|
|
Perfectly Cromulent posted:NZ Sauv Blanc: passionfruit, grapefruit, fresh cut grass, cat piss. Can be enjoyable and it's a good wine to break in wine newbies. Not sure what it says about that dude's first time though. Too intense to a fault, perhaps.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2014 07:36
|
|
|
Crimson posted:Smells and tastes like soap and fabric softener. Perfectly Cromulent posted:cat piss. Can be enjoyable and it's a good wine to break in wine newbies. Ok, I said classless, not lacking in olfactory receptors or tastebuds.  I saw the bit about cat piss and then the comment that it was not necessarily an insult and I don't even know how to parse that. How does that person know what catpiss tastes like? And if it smells remotely like catpiss, why would you ever put it in your mouth?  I love Gewurztraminers because not only are they insanely aromatic, it translates well to the palate. I should be clearer that I'm talking about wines to drink alone. I take issue to cabs because when I'm not drinking them with a steak, it kind of feels like being punched in the face. I want to call it minerality, but after doing some reading that's apparently not how it's described. But my primary issue with most wines that I dislike is when the taste of alcohol is enhanced so much it overwhelms everything else. Drinking it with a rich and juicy steak takes away some of that sting and allows me to appreciate the underlying structure. I really enjoy strong tannins in a wine that is so well structured, it almost feels you're chewing it or just in any wine that really doesn't get overwhelmed by it (like a Zinfandel). But tannins with minerality or high acidity really kills it for me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2014 13:24
|
|
|
Rurutia posted:I love Gewurztraminers because not only are they insanely aromatic, it translates well to the palate.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2014 14:15
|
|
|
I like old Mosel Pradikatswein because it smells like turpentine. Oh yes, I most certainly put it in my mouth.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2014 14:42
|
|
|
[quote="Rurutia" post=" I love Gewurztraminers because not only are they insanely aromatic, it translates well to the palate. I should be clearer that I'm talking about wines to drink alone. [/quote] I have only recently gotten into this stuff, so anyone correct me if I'm suggesting something dumb. If you like Gewurtztraminers, maybe try a French Vouvray? The couple I've had recently have been pretty nice. Similar to Gewurtztraminer, but not quite as syrupy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2014 15:53
|
|
|
Rurutia posted:Ok, I said classless, not lacking in olfactory receptors or tastebuds. There are millions upon millions of aromas in food and wine that are individually offensive - ammonia in blue cheese; brettanomyces odours in many, many wines and beers (band-aid, barnyard, horse's rear end); stinky, skunky sulfurous compounds in every member of the onion family; even that signature cat-pee aroma occurs naturally in many fruit such as currants, gooseberries, and guava - but at the right intensity they provide complexity, flavour, and balance. The Gewurtzraminer you love contains aromatics that smell like the most disgusting artificial perfumes ever concocted, but they are merely part of a whole. I also think you're unclear on some terminology here. Tannins do not contribute to the chewy mouthfeel that you enjoy. I think if you played around by experiencing some of these structural elements individually it'd be helpful. Tannins give a drying sensation. This is often confused with acidity, and indeed the two enhance each other, but they're different. To experience a high degree of tannin, brew some very, very strong tea without adding milk, sugar, lemon, etc. Acidity is a little more familiar, but try a good squeeze of lemon juice next to your strong tea to see how it differs from tannin, and then try them together to see how they heighten each other. Body is essentially how solid a beverage is. Water is very light-bodied, whereas honey or vodka are very full-bodied. The vast majority of body in most wines comes from alcohol, although the level of dry-extract, including certain compounds such as glycerol can contribute slightly as well (or greatly in the case of sugar in sweet wines). "Well-structured" is a bit vague but generally means a wine with a combination of high tannin and high acidity. The wines you enjoy are all low-tannin, low-acidity, full-bodied (and thus high alcohol). Careful about asking for a well-structured wine, you're likely to get something the opposite of what you enjoy! If you're unfamiliar with the selection and asking your sommelier/wine merchant for recommendations, I would recommending asking for something highly-aromatic, full-bodied, and with soft structure. I second Crimson's recommendations here. Loud Mouse, Vouvray comes in quite a variety of styles, from sparkling to still, from bone-dry to syrupy. However, they tend to have elevated acidity and light body. While they're delicious wines and I'd encourage anyone to try them, they're not typically similar in style to the wines Rurutia described as what s/he enjoys.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2014 19:38
|
|
|
First off, I want to thank you for the really in depth response. Kasumeat posted:I also think you're unclear on some terminology here. Tannins do not contribute to the chewy mouthfeel that you enjoy. I think you misunderstood my sentence: "I really enjoy strong tannins in a wine that is so well structured, it almost feels you're chewing it" I really enjoy strong tannins when that chewy mouthfeel exists. Not that I enjoy tannins because they give that mouthfeel. Anyways, I don't have any exact examples of this because the few times I've had it, it wasn't when I was out with friends trying drinks or at someone's house etc I used structure to mean the chewy mouthfeel because that made sense in my head, but it was wrong. Sorry about that. If I understand it correctly, structure is what attributes to that 'punched me in the face' feeling I get. quote:If you're unfamiliar with the selection and asking your sommelier/wine merchant for recommendations, I would recommending asking for something highly-aromatic, full-bodied, and with soft structure. Thanks. This does help, because I wasn't sure if I asked for it right. Last time I asked for aromatic and full-boded at a wine bar, I got something that mostly just had a musky/earthy after taste and had almost no aroma. quote:The wines you enjoy are all low-tannin, low-acidity, full-bodied (and thus high alcohol). quote:I second Crimson's recommendations here. Loud Mouse, Vouvray comes in quite a variety of styles, from sparkling to still, from bone-dry to syrupy. However, they tend to have elevated acidity and light body. While they're delicious wines and I'd encourage anyone to try them, they're not typically similar in style to the wines Rurutia described as what s/he enjoys. This is interesting. The few times I've had anything acidic, I think it was also high in alcohol. I love sour things as a whole (I will sometimes eat a lime/lemon wedge after dinner as a palate cleanser), so it is confusing to me that my preference in wine runs less acidic. I think balance in flavor profiles are super important, and maybe I just haven't had a well balanced acidic wine. I actually thought The Duchess was pretty acidic which I did really like (Chardonnay + SB blend). Is there something I can reference in terms of how certain varietals tend to run? I haven't seem to find anything which compiles it into a easily referenced format... Rurutia fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Apr 30, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2014 20:02
|
|
|
You guys should post more pictures of wines. Oh and cat piss and baby diaper is delicious. I love the pungent smell of fresh durian. However, durian goes bad really really easily. Got to have it fresh in Thailand or Malaysia.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2014 05:32
|
|
|
Kasumeat posted:Loud Mouse, Vouvray comes in quite a variety of styles, from sparkling to still, from bone-dry to syrupy. However, they tend to have elevated acidity and light body. While they're delicious wines and I'd encourage anyone to try them, they're not typically similar in style to the wines Rurutia described as what s/he enjoys. So, if thee are so many different styles, what is it that makes a Vouvray a Vouvray? Are there other wines out there that have completely different styles?
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2014 04:14
|
|
|
Loud Mouse posted:So, if thee are so many different styles, what is it that makes a Vouvray a Vouvray? Are there other wines out there that have completely different styles? Vouvray is wine made (almost always) from Chenin blanc that's grown in a specific area (vouvray) in France. There are different levels based on the amount of residual sugar left in the wine. You can have vouvray that's virtually bone dry sec all the way up to liquoreux vouvray that's syrupy and sweet. Germany has a similar system called pradikat, that's based on sugar level at harvest. So a kabinett reisling from the mosel won't have very much residual sugar, whereas a trockenbeerenauslese is going to be pretty much delicious reisling syrup. Champagne has a similar classification system, although champagne in anything but a dry style has fallen out of fashion, so it's getting harder to find champagne in anything other than a dry style any more.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2014 17:36
|
|
|
caberham posted:You guys should post more pictures of wines. I take photos of wine sometimes   
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2014 12:52
|
|
|
My locker.  mattdev's locker, too
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2014 13:57
|
|
|
I spent last week on a press junket in Lodi. Lots of in-vineyard tastings off the tailgates of pickup trucks with the winery dogs. I had a blast. Cool stuff going on there--the winemaker from Bokisch mentioned that he had 20 acres of Dornfelder, and he's got a buyer for all of it. Who knew?
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2014 22:24
|
|
|
I'm guessing the dog isn't a fan of rosé?
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2014 22:56
|
|
|
benito posted:I spent last week on a press junket in Lodi. Lots of in-vineyard tastings off the tailgates of pickup trucks with the winery dogs. I had a blast. Cool stuff going on there--the winemaker from Bokisch mentioned that he had 20 acres of Dornfelder, and he's got a buyer for all of it. Who knew? I love that picture for a lot of reasons. gay picnic defence posted:I'm guessing the dog isn't a fan of rosé? Every...being likes rose! Come on!
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2014 23:01
|
|
|
Overwined posted:I love that picture for a lot of reasons. It was a little hot in Lodi last week, and a crisp glass of dry rosé at 9 a.m. was a welcome refreshment. Vineyard tasting was kind of crazy. The sixth-generation growers are talking about 150-year old vines, and we're spitting on the ground and the dogs are chewing on the trunks of the same old vines... For anyone that likes dogs and wine, I have a brief roundup of some of the vineyard dogs. People give Lodi a lot of crap, but I was really impressed with their white wines. Albariño, Vermentino, a few Rhône blends... It's not just Old Vine Zinfandel out there. The rosés were spectacular but are made in limited quantities and often don't leave the region.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2014 23:07
|
|
|
benito posted:It was a little hot in Lodi last week, and a crisp glass of dry rosé at 9 a.m. was a welcome refreshment. Vineyard tasting was kind of crazy. The sixth-generation growers are talking about 150-year old vines, and we're spitting on the ground and the dogs are chewing on the trunks of the same old vines... For anyone that likes dogs and wine, I have a brief roundup of some of the vineyard dogs. Did they talk about the season at all? I can't imagine drought questions didn't come up. Afaik everything's moving even earlier than last year, which was also an early year. Gonna be picking in July at this rate. Tempus Fugit, do you get involved in the farming, too, or just make pick calls? What have you been seeing in whatever neck of the woods you're in?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2014 22:14
|
|
|
idiotsavant posted:Did they talk about the season at all? I can't imagine drought questions didn't come up. Afaik everything's moving even earlier than last year, which was also an early year. Gonna be picking in July at this rate. Drought really didn't come up, in fact they're situated where they can rely on nearby snowmelt. Many of the premium vineyards we saw were pleased with their dry farming methods, since their old vines tap into the water table 10-25 feet underground. When you've got the same family working the same plot of land since the 1850s (and actually flourishing during Prohibition), they're pretty good at dealing with odd weather. (I know that's nothing by European standards, but impressive for the US.) Also lots of fun looking at the competing economic interests of growers (who get paid by the ton, and are incentivized to plump up the grapes) vs. winemakers who are looking for quality over quantity.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2014 23:36
|
|
|
Yeah, I've been lucky enough to work with the Bechtold Vineyard Cinsault and the guy pisses and moans about getting 2-3 tons an acre, but the fruit quality is insane. The winemaker I work with talked another grower into cropping some of his 100+yo Carignan down to 3 tons/acre as an experiment this season, and I'm looking forward to the results come harvest. Hopefully it goes well and we can get more next year...
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2014 16:44
|
|
|
Do they not get paid bonuses for having good fruit?
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 00:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 14:37 |
|
|
I'm not super familiar with it yet, but there are a few variables. The biggest is location - I met a guy who owns land in both Napa and Solano County. Some grapes can be called Napa, some are from Suisun, and sell for significantly less per ton. The soils are the same, the grapes are the same, they're practically next to each other, but AVA crap means that Napa grapes sell for more. Most of the growers in Lodi are pretty industrial. They want good, ripe grapes, but quantity is far more important than quality. They aren't getting as much money for their grapes, and a lot of the places buying them aren't terribly concerned with showing terroir. I mean, poo poo, what the hell are you going to show with a bunch of 5-year old Chardonnay vines that are irrigated and fertilized and grown on a bunch of dead-rear end dirt that's been sprayed chock-full of pesticides and herbicides? Might as well crop it as high as you can go without losing ALL your quality. And even if you did have something amazing, it's Lodi so no one is going to pay a whole lot for it. See the Napa/Suisun example. There are some farmers there, though, who are farming older, less productive vines or who are willing to crop at lower levels (for a premium, of course). The trick is finding them and then managing to work out a deal. Sometimes it's just an extra headache for them and they'd rather just do their normal thing, sometimes they're just ornery cusses, etc etc. I dunno, I don't want to be too judgemental about it. Just because I think Two-Buck Chuck is gross doesn't make it a bad wine -it just is what it is. Farming works the same way.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2014 08:42
|
|