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Good Citizen posted:So apparently all the fracking in Oklahoma is causing a huge uptick in earthquakes. The number of 3.0+ earthquakes has risen from <5 a year to more than a hundred a year and it's still increasing rapidly. They've already had more in the first 5 months of this year than in all of 2013, and the USGS just issued an earthquake warning in the state. That's the first time that has ever happened anywhere besides the west coast states. Um, fracking is completely safe and without any consequences whatsoever.
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May 6, 2014 06:40
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I don't know if it was this thread or one of the others, but I am listening to that Chumbawumba album of English protest songs that someone mentioned here. It's really fascinating and awesome and it's on Spotify's free service, so give it a listen.
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May 6, 2014 06:45
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JT Jag posted:Hey man, you stay out of my space, I stay out of yours. By the way, this is all my space. No, none of it is yours. Who says so? I say so! 
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May 6, 2014 06:52
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Efficient government is another one of those seemingly agreeable ideas that have been turned into loaded nonsense by politics. No one in their right mind is rooting for an inefficient government. Unfortunately the people pushing "efficient government" go about it by cutting a semi-useful program to the point that it loses all effectiveness thus necessitating a new round of cuts that eliminate it entirely or reduce it even further that it can be killed the next time around. I'd love a more efficient government. My main exposure to any large federal agency has been through the DoD which was eye opening. Ideally one would cut the DoD budget down in order to "starve the beast" forcing it to actually take a hard look at standard procedures and hopefully push it towards a more streamlined, more efficient system. Unfortunately every agency has gotten PR savvy and when cuts are threatened or come down the pipeline they take a hostage. For instance, lets say you want to cut the DoD operating budget by 5% because they're so huge they can't even do an audit on themselves as in they have no ability to track where their money is going. Ok, sounds reasonable. Well the DoD doesn't want to lose any portion of funding because each individual at the top of the DoD is concerned about where precisely the budget will be cut. Will their department or pet research project be cut? Will their carefully cultivated relationship with private contractors get fouled up by budgetary restraints costing them a (in their minds) hard won cushy retirement gig? And on top of that there is the ever present concern that if you roll over easily and come up with efficiency gains to soften the blow then next time around your budget will get slashed even worse because its just easier. So you fight the cuts. What, in this modern media age, is the easiest way to fight an impending cut? You find a hostage and threaten it. Preferably whatever is the most beloved piece of your organization. The DoD goes after personnel benefits either military retirement or healthcare for service-members. Either are guaranteed to cause a massive uproar, but the uproar is never directed at the agency threatening the cuts*. It's almost always directed at whomever is pushing the budget cuts on the agency in the first place. The best part for the DoD in this situation is either the gambit works per usual and their budget doesn't get cut or it only gets a very modest grazing or the uproar is muted and you get to kill an expensive part of your budget. Win-win. And all of that is just to get minor budget cuts to force efficiency gains. I have never once heard a good solution to bureaucratic creep. There doesn't seem to be any known way to murder the tendency for large organizations to become ever more bureaucratic over time. I suppose you could burn it all down, but unsurprisingly people aren't willing to do that until the organization has lost all useful functionality, a process which takes ages. * I have found being in an organization under budget threats and having them reach for your benefits over the other obvious cuts tends to be remembered among the peasants. Good thing us peasants have no power though.
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May 6, 2014 10:02
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Efficient government is another one of those seemingly agreeable ideas that have been turned into loaded nonsense by politics. If you're looking at how well it treats the problem it was founded to solve with the funds it receives, it makes drat near any other public initiative look impotent. The SNAP program provided 47.6 million Americans with food assistance in 2013. If the Healthcare exchange had that many enrollees, the Republican party would have disbanded. The drug war cost about the same as the SNAP program did before the recession, yet the budget hawks never target such an obviously failed government program. Most of the time 'smaller government' simply means harming people you don't like to divert public funds to those you do.
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May 6, 2014 12:14
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Is it me or does this thing in the Ukraine sound like the start of a bad technothriller? I just heard on the news this morning that US fighters intercepted Russian bombers overflying Guam, spy aircraft are taking pictures of US forces in SK and JP, and Navy forces found several russian subs off the coast of California.
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May 6, 2014 12:40
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Relentlessboredomm posted:[lots of stuff] Good post, and correct. Also a lot of the defense contractors keep ensuring that they make minor things in every possible congressional district. That way they can go up to their local congresscritters and say "hey, you are going to cut defense spending? Know that you are going to be putting your personal constituant ouit of work, and I will be sure to dump tons of money into the election in two years making sure everyone knows that." This is also why we have such militarization of the police. Do you think my small hometown of 4000 people really needs urban assault vehicles? Not at all, and they hate having it, but it was given to them because poo poo, someone has to buy these expensive toys.
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May 6, 2014 12:43
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420DD Butts posted:Um, fracking is completely safe and without any consequences whatsoever. Yeah? And I've got some spring water I'd like to sell you.
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May 6, 2014 12:44
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Is there a reason why I shouldn't support kids being allowed to choose which public school they want to attend? It seems like a really great idea and I'm surprised that my state (NC) is actually going through with it. It seems like some Republicans are for it and some against. I can see why many would be against it I can already see the letters to the editor: "You mean some inner city thug will be able to go to school with my daughter? We moved out here to get away from all that!"
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May 6, 2014 13:17
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Cimber posted:Is it me or does this thing in the Ukraine sound like the start of a bad technothriller? I just heard on the news this morning that US fighters intercepted Russian bombers overflying Guam, spy aircraft are taking pictures of US forces in SK and JP, and Navy forces found several russian subs off the coast of California. In other words it was Monday. Bears have been patrolling the arctic since Russia and Canada got into a territorial dispute. You can find a bunch of pictures of F-22s flying in formation with Bears in the arctic for example. We also do the same kinds of things with Russia, you're naive if you don't think we have subs as close to Russia as they can get.
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May 6, 2014 13:21
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Good Citizen posted:So apparently all the fracking in Oklahoma is causing a huge uptick in earthquakes. The number of 3.0+ earthquakes has risen from <5 a year to more than a hundred a year and it's still increasing rapidly. They've already had more in the first 5 months of this year than in all of 2013, and the USGS just issued an earthquake warning in the state. That's the first time that has ever happened anywhere besides the west coast states. Not entirely due to fracking though. Most of the bigger earthquakes are related to washer disposal wells that are much earlier than the recent fracturing boom. They have pumped millions if barrels into those wells (likely illegally) and raised the reservoir pressures high enough to break through to the binding formations and relieve some stress. I say likely illegal because most states (not sure about Oklahoma) don't allow injection wells to operate about fracturing pressure. The method for determining this is pretty easy (pump rate vs stabilized pressure and look for a break), but you can pass the initial vertical fracturing plane really early and use the lift the overburden pressure as a maximum point. They also allow "re-tests" where you can hope to get a higher injection pressure to increase rate. The reason this is tangentially related to hydraulic fracturing is that it increased the need for disposal, people don't like drilling disposal wells, and generally the owners of wells making water pay someone else to take care of it. Once the truck of produced water leaves location it is someone else's problem and if you can't take it, someone else will.
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May 6, 2014 13:33
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420DD Butts posted:Um, fracking is completely safe and without any consequences whatsoever. So is drinking and driving
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May 6, 2014 13:39
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Sephiroth_IRA posted:Is there a reason why I shouldn't support kids being allowed to choose which public school they want to attend? It seems like a really great idea and I'm surprised that my state (NC) is actually going through with it. It also has the potential to quickly defund a troubled school:
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May 6, 2014 13:44
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ChaosSamusX posted:I would pay a lot of money to see a really serious political drama with utterly absurd plot elements in the vein of MGS.
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May 6, 2014 14:07
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Don't forget the implied systematic racism of school choice either.
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May 6, 2014 14:09
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Oil! posted:Not entirely due to fracking though. Most of the bigger earthquakes are related to washer disposal wells that are much earlier than the recent fracturing boom. They have pumped millions if barrels into those wells (likely illegally) and raised the reservoir pressures high enough to break through to the binding formations and relieve some stress. I say likely illegal because most states (not sure about Oklahoma) don't allow injection wells to operate about fracturing pressure. The method for determining this is pretty easy (pump rate vs stabilized pressure and look for a break), but you can pass the initial vertical fracturing plane really early and use the lift the overburden pressure as a maximum point. They also allow "re-tests" where you can hope to get a higher injection pressure to increase rate. Yes, fracking can be done with minimal environmental damage compared to other methods. Too bad thats more expensive so nobody will ever do it.
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May 6, 2014 14:21
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Hey I've been busy moving this weekend. I made some updates to the op last night, I'll try to get the May thread up tonight, but I have a Dems shindig for the primaries so no promises
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May 6, 2014 14:27
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I live in a massive blue state (Illinois) but it is not the best thing in the world. It seems like we are behind even some red states. Simply living in a blue state does not remove the stain of corruption.
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May 6, 2014 14:56
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GulMadred posted:It doesn't include bus service (presumably because it would be infeasible to run hundreds of special buses, each with two kids onboard). Hence, the freedom offered by the program (in theory) would in fact be available mainly to families who possess two cars and some flexibility in their work schedule (e.g. wealthier folks). Thanks. Yeah, I agree with all of that but for now it seems like a small step in the right direction. At first only the kids with parents care about what school their kids go to and can afford (and have time for) the extra travel expenses will be able to get in and I'm sure many public schools will find some way to say they're maxed out (when they're not) or will find a way to get the right sort of kids in their schools. I really don't mind if some "troubled schools" fail because of it as long as the kids are given access to transportation to better schools when they do fail and they're not forced into private schools. So eventually more kids will have access to better schools and schools will become more economically (I hate the idea of all the poor kids going to one school and the rest going to another) diverse. The schools that survive will grow and will have to hire more teachers to accommodate the growth in students.
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May 6, 2014 15:03
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That's cool, its just that until that school fails, the kid is sort of trapped in a lovely learning environment.
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May 6, 2014 15:07
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"A school failing" is not really a (routine) timely thing, it doesn't occur after a lousy semester.
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May 6, 2014 15:15
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Fried Chicken posted:Hey I've been busy moving this weekend. I made some updates to the op last night, I'll try to get the May thread up tonight, but I have a Dems shindig for the primaries so no promises Ask em what kind of open source campaigning tools they need. I'm still sitting on that empty VPS.
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May 6, 2014 15:16
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Sephiroth_IRA posted:Is there a reason why I shouldn't support kids being allowed to choose which public school they want to attend? It seems like a really great idea and I'm surprised that my state (NC) is actually going through with it. I don't think NC is going through with it anymore: http://www.wral.com/lawmakers-table-statewide-school-choice-idea/13619864/
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May 6, 2014 15:18
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Install Windows posted:Larger governments are more efficient. I'm going to resurrect this because I'd love to see some evidence for this.
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May 6, 2014 15:18
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Sephiroth_IRA posted:Thanks. NC had the most well integrated schools post-CRA. Now since NC is GOP Uber Alles, there's a big push for vouchers to charter schools and all of this other poo poo that has basically re-segregated the schools. NC isn't the first though, I think Alabama or another state in the same area currently has more segregated schools than they did in the 50s and 60s.
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May 6, 2014 15:24
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Cheekio posted:Ask em what kind of open source campaigning tools they need. I'm still sitting on that empty VPS. I'm still sitting on an empty private GitHub repo. 
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May 6, 2014 16:00
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Berke Negri posted:Itll be worth it once we displace Putin providing gas to Europe The middle of the country collapsing you say? There's a funny SF short story from the mid-60s about that and what it'd do to politics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Nebraska_Sea Full text transcribed here: http://alternatehistory.net/discussion/showpost.php?s=926f5cca49ddf42c88d680d03effe2d5&p=1111920&postcount=6 Amergin posted:I'm going to resurrect this because I'd love to see some evidence for this. Ever had to go to the DMV in two different states, one that relentlessly cuts the budgets for things and one that doesn't? It's just one example, but man you're out so much faster when you've got 10 stations open at the office rather than 2.
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May 6, 2014 16:12
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Install Windows posted:The middle of the country collapsing you say? There's a funny SF short story from the mid-60s about that and what it'd do to politics: That is actually why there are so many shale plays extending from Texas through Alberta. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretaceous_Seaway
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May 6, 2014 16:21
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hobbesmaster posted:Yes, fracking can be done with minimal environmental damage compared to other methods. Yeah but that would harm the JOB CREATORS.
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May 6, 2014 16:58
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DemeaninDemon posted:Yeah but that would harm the JOB CREATORS. I always love this one: doing things safely often requires more people so creates more jobs. But that means less money goes into the investor's pockets!
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May 6, 2014 17:04
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Babylon Astronaut posted:The easiest way to tell this is true is the SNAP program. It is dollar for dollar the pinnacle of government spending and mysteriously needs to be cut for 'efficiency.' There isn't a program in the history of the US that is a more efficient use of government funds, and yet, it is always too big and bloated. Even if you completely ignore the stated purpose of giving people food to eat, the stimulus effect alone makes an extremely good value providing $1.84 worth of economic activity for every dollar dispersed. This is really interesting, can you source it so I can refer back to it later?
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May 6, 2014 17:30
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Rep. Trey Gowdy Tapped to Lead Benghazi Panel: Former Federal Prosecutor Named to Head Republicans' New Investigation in 2012 Attacksquote:WASHINGTON—House Speaker John Boehner (R., Ohio) said Monday that Rep. Trey Gowdy (R., S.C.) will lead a special panel being created by Republicans to investigate the Sept. 11, 2012, attacks that killed four Americans in Benghazi, Libya. 
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May 6, 2014 17:46
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And I'm sure the White House is just quaking in its boots at the prospect of another open-ended fishing investigation. I love that this move is so transparently political that even some Republicans are saying "It looks political, but IT'S NOT GUYS I SWEAR IT THIS TIME". Fritz Coldcockin fucked around with this message at 17:53 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 17:47
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Amergin posted:I'm going to resurrect this because I'd love to see some evidence for this. "Big government" or "large government" is a completely meaningless messaging term used for "things I don't like" so I'm not sure what there is to discuss, beyond how stupid it is that sound bytes infect and dumb down discourse even among the politically aware.
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May 6, 2014 17:49
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queertea posted:Rep. Trey Gowdy Tapped to Lead Benghazi Panel: Former Federal Prosecutor Named to Head Republicans' New Investigation in 2012 Attacks
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May 6, 2014 17:50
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queertea posted:Rep. Trey Gowdy Tapped to Lead Benghazi Panel: Former Federal Prosecutor Named to Head Republicans' New Investigation in 2012 Attacks Well if that's not an "impeachment!" Signal to the base I don't know what is. This weekend Fox had some fool rep whose name escapes me on during the correspondents dinner calling for impeachment over Benghazi. Looks like they are really going for it. I wonder if we will get someone shooting pumpkins this time as well.
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May 6, 2014 17:52
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Install Windows posted:Ever had to go to the DMV in two different states, one that relentlessly cuts the budgets for things and one that doesn't? It's just one example, but man you're out so much faster when you've got 10 stations open at the office rather than 2. But (and I know this is a horrible analogy) my experience in working in businesses large and small is that, yes you will always have inefficiencies, but in larger companies with more siloed employees and responsibility distributed wider, things are less efficient. Smaller companies, smaller pool of employees, more hats worn by everyone, it's more stressful BUT poo poo gets done quickly. This is part of the reason why I would try and adjust things to make firing employees easier and encourage a more "meritocratic" system. Would it be truly meritocratic? Of course not. But if you can reward federal employees for effort and curb the number of employees down to those who are most effective, possibly boost their pay, I would hope things would quicken. I know "Curb government bloat rah rah" is a common trope thrown around but I think the idea that a larger government is more efficient just doesn't hold water. Curbing employee count while not trying to encourage efficient work is obviously going to just make things worse - you're cutting budgets to say you cut budgets but you don't actually solve anything. If there were some stats/studies on larger government being more efficient, I'd love to see it. The analogy to businesses for economies of scale doesn't really hold water to me because I'm talking internal efficiency, whereas economies of scale would be more analogous to foreign relations (which would boil down to military economies of scale, I suppose).
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May 6, 2014 17:52
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So Kerry is telling Congress to take their subpoena and shove it. I fully expect contempt of Congress charges. What happens then?
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May 6, 2014 17:57
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The problem that this argument is that, by capitalist standards, efficiency is basically austerity by definition. It is about getting the maximum amount of work done for minimal expense/employees. This has led to serious structural problems in our society, as mentioned in the Gilded Age 2.0 thread.
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May 6, 2014 17:57
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Good Citizen posted:So apparently all the fracking in Oklahoma is causing a huge uptick in earthquakes. The number of 3.0+ earthquakes has risen from <5 a year to more than a hundred a year and it's still increasing rapidly. They've already had more in the first 5 months of this year than in all of 2013, and the USGS just issued an earthquake warning in the state. That's the first time that has ever happened anywhere besides the west coast states. Wait. I thought earthquakes were caused by tectonic shifts, surely fracking can't cause the Earth's crust itself to shift.
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May 6, 2014 17:59
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