VagueRant posted:

Is it fair to conflate a vote for the Iraq war with voting for all the atrocities and mishandling of it? I could see a moral person buying into the lies Colin Powell was told to tell, and voting for a war...



That said, Joe Biden is a prick.

rope kid posted:

There was one senator who voted against both the Patriot Act and the resolution for war with Iraq.

dusty posted:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ans-about-race/

Interesting post. It goes on to suggest the sharp cleavage between the two parties might be a relatively recent phenomenon.

quote:

How to Spiritually Manipulate Young People in Six Easy Steps

27 July 2012, 06:00



Step 1. Present a test that supposedly measures one’s love for God. Every Christian young person desires to love God, of course, and will be excited to confirm their commitment to their Savior!

Step 2. Present scripture out of context that insinuates that one is God’s enemy if they fail the test. This heightens the spiritual stakes of the test, and makes it a much more serious matter. Helpful Hint: Be sure they don’t realize that God didn’t actually write the test.

Step 3. Present the test. The test should consist of a list of false dichotomies in which either choice (with one exception in the given example) is biblically acceptable. It’s especially helpful if both sides are even biblically encouraged, as in the second and fourth questions below. However, one of the answers must always sound more pious and godly than the choice on the other side. This will ensure that all who take the quiz will “fail” it.

Step 4. Conclude the test with another out of context scripture which will confirm that because they failed the test, they have left their first love and that God has something against them. This will result in severe guilt and anguish. Again, be sure they don’t realize they are feeling guilt over loving things that God created for them to enjoy, such as friendships, fellowship, music, and literature.

Step 5. Present a 10-day workshop that will help them deal with the newly created guilt by making a bunch of commitments and vows to deeper godliness, all of which cause them to sacrifice their God-given Christian liberty in order to fit within a man-created system of religiosity.

Step 6. Rinse and repeat. Once they’ve bought into your system, it will be hard for them to get out. The only way this will happen is if they figure out that God’s love isn’t conditioned upon their behavior, and that the only path to holiness is to walk daily within His sustaining grace. Once they figure that out, you’ve lost them. Sorry.

NOTE: The following example of this plan in action comes from page 8 of the Institute in Basic Life Principle’s Journey to the Heart curriculum. Journey to the Heart is a 10-day retreat program for young men and women aged 13-30, taught by Bill Gothard and other members of his staff.

Nckdictator posted:

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2012/07/how-to-spiritually-manipulate-young-people-in-six-easy-steps/





Good on Followers of Jesus for calling this poo poo out.

Nckdictator posted:

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2012/07/how-to-spiritually-manipulate-young-people-in-six-easy-steps/





Good on Followers of Jesus for calling this poo poo out.

quote:

A Different Kind of Sexual Abuse

8 September 2011, 06:30

KylarD


It was my 12th birthday. I was excited because I knew my dad would be taking me out to visit for a little bit before we celebrated with my family. I was the oldest of four boys at the time, before our younger sister and baby brother where born. I was excited because personal interactions with Dad were infrequent and usually because we had angered him somehow. I knew since it was my birthday he would likely be in a good mood and our visit would be special.

Soon it was time and we headed out to an empty church parking lot to park and visit. Dad began to talk to me about my future marriage, and how special my wife was going to be. It was a bit of a shocker because Dad never spoke about our futures, or talked to me like I was a person. I was usually an annoyance. The rarity of this situation made me determined to embrace anything that he might want to talk about. Pretty soon he pulled out a Courtship booklet from the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP). He had just been to his second Basic Seminar and was determined to become more intentional about parenting. The Basic Seminar’s instructor, Bill Gothard, taught that parents are responsible to God for their children. And rather than simply being good stewards, many parents, including my dad, took that to mean that they were responsible to God for every thought, action, and attitude their children had up until the moment they married and started their own family.

Dad went over the Courtship Booklet with me, showing me that being the best husband in the future would mean that I would never look with lust on another woman and that I would save my physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual self for the woman that God would have for me and that he would help me choose. It seemed like an overwhelming responsibility to promise to, but I really wanted to be a good husband and a pleasing child of God. Plus, Dad had never talked to me like an adult before and the idea of partnering with him on something so grand and purposeful seemed like a wonderful way to earn his ongoing respect.

Dad gave me a promise ring that night, and the next day the two of us signed a Courtship Covenant with our pastor. One more important thing happened that night in the car at the empty church parking lot. Dad said that it would be hard for me to keep all that I was committing to for all those years, and that the best thing I could do to help with that was have an accountability partner. He suggested that anytime I had a wrong thought, or wrong action (I didn’t yet know what he meant by that), that I could confess that to him, and I would be forgiven by God. That way I could stay “clean” and true to my promises. I was nervous about this as well, but it sounded like it might work.

So, to start things off, Dad wanted to know if I had ever had wrong thoughts about women. In truth, I had only just begun to find women attractive and was curious what they looked like naked, but it was a passing thought that I spent no time on. I had no idea what masturbation was, or that something like that was possible. I had been home-schooled and had had some friends of both genders, but sexuality had nothing to do with life at that point. I guiltily confessed to Dad that I had had some thoughts about girls without their clothes on. Dad seemed very concerned and wanted to know what I had pictured. I was extremely embarrassed to have to describe what I had pictured a woman’s body looking like, so I lied and said it was really blurry because I couldn’t picture it very well. He seemed relieved and then led me through a prayer to ask God to forgive me for thinking thoughts like that. I wasn’t sure if I felt better or not after the prayer, but I was very determined I would never think of a woman’s body again because I didn’t want to have to confess that to dad.

Before we left, we had decided that I would be responsible to come to Dad every day to clear my conscience. Dad would not be the one to track me down because I needed to learn to be a man and to responsibly own up to my wrong doings. But he also said that any day that I didn’t come and confess to him, or didn’t confess everything to him, I would be out from under his spiritual umbrella of protection and that Satan would be free to begin destroying my life. This was quite overwhelming. But I was determined, if unsure, that I would have what it takes to be a real man.

It soon became a nightmare. I was much more of a monster that I had ever imagined. There were beautiful and less-than-completely-covered women on the boxes of exercise equipment at the store that I kept finding my mind thinking about. In fact, the female form was everywhere, sometimes actual people and sometimes pictures of people. Dad was busier at the time, so I didn’t feel completely guilty on the days that we never had a moment for me to confess to him. But the list kept growing and I began to dread moments that I had with him because it meant I had to take advantage of those rare moments of alone time to confess. And it meant utter humiliation. Dad was always shocked and horrified at what I was seeing and thinking about. He said the magazine racks at the store were practically pornography. I had never seen pornography, but I was horrified that my mind would remember such vile images. The longer the year went on the more hopeless and despicable I felt. Dad said I was listening to Satan and was playing right into his traps. He said that before I got married, I was going to have to confess to my future wife’s dad that I had had all these evil thoughts about women other than his daughter and that I would need to ask his forgiveness. He said I was going to have to do the same with my future wife. She probably would never want to marry me with such a perverse track record.

My fear and horror grew. No matter what I tried and how much I prayed and confessed, girls continued to catch my eye. I was alarmed that I had a longing for that beauty. I was ashamed that I was so powerfully drawn to wonder in amazement at beautiful hair, lashes and curves. What was I going to say to my future wife? I couldn’t say I had saved my eyes for her. I had seen beautiful girls. Good thing I wasn’t allowed to go to the youth group at church. There were lots of beautiful girls there. I was sure I would be in major sin if I was close to them. Dad said it was much better that I never went, and that the idea of letting boys and girls hang out together was really sick. Children should be with their parents so they can learn wisdom. Putting fools (children) together only made greater fools.

When I was 13, I began to discover masturbation. It was alarming that something so pleasurable and so out-of-control could happen within my own body. I confessed to Dad what was going on, and he wanted to know all the details. He told me to keep him informed of what was happening because it was easy to fall away from God in that process. He was concerned and I was fearful.

When I was 14, I remember making a resolute decision that I could never get married. There was no way, I, as man who desired the best for the women in his life, could ever subject any poor girl to the perversion that I was. It might even be better for everyone in the world if I didn’t exist.

When I was 15, Dad decided that all four of us boys needed to be circumcised, not only for spiritual, but also for physical/sanitary reasons. I was horrified and scared. We had check-up/planning visits to the doctor who would be performing the surgery. Dad was intent on being present for every aspect of the visit. My grandpa was angry when he heard that we were all going to be circumcised, and I thought my prayers might be answered. After reading the Medical Care Bulletin from IBLP on Circumcision, my grandpa changed his mind and supported my dad.

As the time of surgery grew closer, I became so distraught that I actually decided I would talk to Dad. Talking to my father was a scary thing because, according to Bill Gothard (I had been to three Basic Seminars and an Advanced Seminar already), Dad was God’s Anointed leader in our family, and to question God’s Anointed was rebellion. We had been taught from First Samuel that rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft which means you are listening to Satan. So, with all the respect I could pointedly communicate, I asked Dad if we had to do the surgery. I explained that we were in the New Testament times so we didn’t have to keep the law. I was also certain of my ability to be responsible in maintaining sanitation in that area, so that wouldn’t be an issue. I also told Dad he could save the thousands it would cost. Dad smiled and explained that God had blessed us with the financial resources to be able to do it at this time and we would be foolish to miss this opportunity when we didn’t know if we could do it later. He also said that my future wife would be grateful to me and to him for my circumcision. It was never even a thought for either of us that this was my body and I should be able to decide what happens to it. We both “knew” that Dad was completely responsible to God for me and that he has wisdom as the leader of the home that I didn’t have, so I could only provoke the wrath of God and work of Satan in my life if I ever openly crossed the divine wisdom my father had received directly from God.
I felt trapped in the horror of God’s best for my life.

I have a hard time concentrating when I recall the events of the surgery. A few days before the surgery we had a tour around the hospital to see where we would be prepped and where we would go for surgery. It felt more like we were being paraded around before the nurses who were smiling and red faced, wondering at this family who was having four sons circumcised at the same time. On the day of the surgery I decided I wasn’t going to be apprehensive at all. I decided that I wasn’t going to worry about my body, that I didn’t have a right to it, and that I was going to completely trust that everything that was going to happen was supposed to happen. I went numb. I was numb to the fact that I was naked under a gown, that I had preparatory IVs stuck in my arm, that beautiful nurses kept pulling my gown up to handle, inspect and prep my penis, that I was being wheeled in to the operating room and succumbed to the power of anesthesia. When I awoke, there were more nurses inspecting the site. We had instructions to soak in a bath tub when we were released to soften the yards of bandaging before we slowly unwrapped it. At home, Dad assumed the role of resident nurse and insisted on being present when we each in our turn soaked and unwrapped our mutilated member. I no longer felt valuable enough to feel his controlling presence was a violation of privacy and personhood. I didn’t have a right to privacy and personhood. I was the property of my God-given authority and getting used to that was much more pleasant. It was many more years before I felt all the pain of that season. The cumulative events of the years felt as though my masculinity was raped repeatedly.

The daily confessing continued until I was 20. I finally came to be strong enough to claim that there is but one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus (1 Tim. 2:5). No man should ever ask you to confess your faults to him as a requirement for a perfect walk with God. I had grown more and more frustrated and confused. How could I be such a perverted person with strong attraction to women if I so desired God’s best in my life? I was memorizing scripture, reading the Bible for at least 30 minutes daily, and praying continuously. Through my increasing knowledge of the Bible, I began to wonder if there was a different design. Over several years I realized that the opposite of lust was not not-lusting, but love. That Christ would have been fully aware of every aspect (physical, mental, emotional, spiritual) of the women around Him, aware of the attractiveness He made them with, and yet He never lusted.

As I began to understand my right to know my own motives and not just accept the motives my dad said I had, I realized that I had nothing but the best desires for the women around me. In no way did I ever want to abuse or selfishly use the women that I was so blessed to know. It took even more time to understand that my attraction to women didn’t mean I had been lusting at all for all those years. I have also slowly grown to comprehend that it is okay for me to be fully masculine the way God made me, and that me being masculine according to my design is actually a blessing, and not a curse, to the women around me. I have grown close to some amazing girls I call my sisters and they have been very instrumental in my healing and understanding of the beauty of my design and purpose. I have finally come to be grateful for my sexuality, masculinity and for the unique and beautiful design of women and femininity. God’s true design is so beautiful, something to be delighted in. No one should be ashamed of being a man, or of being a woman. And no one can guarantee a perfect and harm-free life. My dad was obsessed with us avoiding the pitfalls he fell into in his younger years and yet his constant vigilance caused wounds and pain of a very different kind. Life cannot be controlled, only responded to. Respond to yourself with graciousness and forgiveness. Be gracious and forgiving of those around you. Pursue love as the ultimate goal in life. Everything else is pointless without a heart of love.

quote:

What Have You Done with My Daughter?

14 July 2012,

My first experience with anything Bill Gothard was the Eternal Vision program. My then 18-year-old daughter, who had for years rejected God, had been amazingly touched by God in a Denny’s parking lot. This girl was beaming with joy, sleepless from excitement, and so new and fresh. I urged her to visit some people we knew who ran Bible camp each year. Nothing fancy. Our children had all become friends and what we knew of them seemed legit. I had always admired their dedication to God, plus they were ministers. He was a pastor. The lady encouraged Jaime to go to this Gothard program and even intervened on her behalf when there was a concern for her eligibility, since she had not been raised in their teachings (red flag number one). I had become leery of and concerned with any ministry/church that claimed to be “unique” in its approach, above the rest. There begins to develop an exclusionist mentality. I was taught and believe the Bible would not have us circle our wagons into a “holy huddle” with unique rules that separate us from fellowship with any other believers.

We had never even heard of Gothard and had no idea what this was, but I was so happy she was going to a place to minister. She was so fresh and free when she found the Lord. She had been delivered from some bitterness and was a brand new unspoiled person, so loving. It was a real testimony to God at work. She would willingly go to help and stay with a sick woman we knew and tried to help her without complaint. She wanted so much to serve the Lord. She had such a forgiving spirit. She had let go of some major traumatic memories from her past that only God could have healed her from.

Fast forward to the Gothard institute. The legalism started to creep into her life almost immediately. She was to wear a dress at all times and not just that, but it was taught that those that didn’t were kind of unholy; defrauding. She told stories of a girl who was confined to her room for about a week as punishment for what seemed like a behavior that wasn’t wrong or hurtful. It was just not acceptable to them (red flag number 2). Boys and girls could not even be in each other’s company and talk, trying to get to know each other, without condemnation (red flag number 3). I wondered why it was treated as almost evil — what better place to teach them proper conduct with the opposite sex? Relationships are not wrong; God created woman and man for marriage. This seemed so over the top, almost like it was sinful. Clothes were so scrutinized that anything that even hugged the body or form fit in any way (like jeans) was decidedly scandalous. Almost like Muslim women, they were being taught that they were trying to appeal to the men and they were responsible.

One boy who was from a family deeply involved in this teaching showed interest in her after she left. He was a friend there and pursued her even though they both almost felt guilty. He eventually said his parents wouldn’t approve of his “courting” her because she had not always been a Christian (Huge, huge red flag!). My God changes people and they are a new creation. My belief stands, backed by scripture, that we are no different from each other, “that all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.” The only possible reason for this mentality would be to further keep themselves from “contamination,” rather than reaching out to others in fellowship as family. Also, if indeed God puts two people together, if they have prayed it through themselves before pursuing each other; I don’t believe the parents should overrule merely by their unfounded prejudices. She had been telling us she was completely under our authority. I tried to tell her I felt her decisions were best made by her (with some advice) and God since she was over 18 and I believed it was time for her to have her own personal relationship with God rather than through me. She really was stuck on this.

It was very cult-like. I saw many similarities: the jargon that was solely understood and indoctrinated into them, the books written only by him, the teachings — everything was from his teachings. There were multiple rules that I knew were extra-biblical. Sure, it is wise to have your parents’ advice, but you stand before God in the final analysis. I think of Mary, David, and many of those we admire in scriptures who walked with God and had His guidance in the matter, at even younger ages. I wasn’t prepared to pick her mate. I understand the need for dissuading males and females from inappropriate contact, especially while away from home and in the care of the ministry. I get that, but the effort that was taken to keep them from forming any attachments or go home was an unjustifiable and unbiblical law. We do not live in a bubble. It is normal growth to learn, in increments if needed, just how to maneuver the curves that life throws us. Leadership is not meant to control us, but to guide us. I found it ironic that the daughters of the pastor were flirting with everyone and the rules didn’t apply. One only had to read their comments and such on their blogs.

My daughter became so legalistic and accusatory, mimicking the teachings and pointing fingers at others if they did this or that. It began to be less about God and more about doing the right thing; very judgmental, which was very obviously religious training. Quoting legalistic jargon as if it were scripture, and questioning people’s intentions if they were to ignore these rules or cross a line.

I have seen many of the youth who went to this program become isolated in life, unable to form healthy and loving relationships. It was as if they were so damaged by this program that they couldn’t pull this thing called life together. I have met many of kids from the program, and only on rare occasions do any of them seem to have the loving spirit of God that draws you to Him. It is as if the program derailed them from becoming growing, thinking Christians who are saved through grace by faith. It also derailed them, especially in my daughters’ case, from being the walking, joyful example of Christianity that they had been prior to their involvement with the Institute. In my daughter’s case, the spirit seemed to have died in her. It was quenched. I know no other way to put it. There was such a huge transformation from her sweet childlike faith to an almost bitter, judgmental person who spouted teachings as if they were scripture. I pointed out on many occasions how this or that wasn’t really in the Bible, and she agreed, saying that they were meant to be guidelines, but leadership took it too far. Yet you could see it was having its effect on her. It began to permeate her speech and attitude toward others, and tainted her opinion of others. Her joy disappeared and was replaced with fear. Instead of coming away ready to minister to others and better prepared to stand up and let His light shine, she was more interested in avoiding anyone who might contaminate her. Those who needed Christ became more like people to avoid.

She has since left the Institute and met some other amazing Christians, among whom she has learned to overcome those false teachings, returning to her once loving ways.

Alien Arcana posted:

Wow. "Cut ties with your friends and give up all kinds of fun forever, or you don't really love God."

EDIT: "What's that? You're lonely and miserable? You miss the things you gave up? Well, if you really loved God, you wouldn't feel that way."

Stultus Maximus posted:

Typical Pubbie posted:

This is actually close to the bare minimum amount of pay that your average "sergeant of 2 years experience" will receive. You also have to factor in all applicable incentive pay, tax-free income while deployed to a combat zone, and per diem; all of which a soldier deployed to Afghanistan will receive. And let's not forget free government healthcare!

The military is a pretty good deal financially as long as you don't get killed, maimed, or hosed by the bureaucracy.



Air show pic from my old squadron.

ekuNNN posted:

Freepost is a handy system where the receiver of the mail has to pay the postage

Stultus Maximus posted:

Well it's not like a combat soldier would make sergeant in 2 years.

quote:

Wiles at first denied the allegations but has since admitted to his past life. Wiles says “for me, from a religious standpoint, just for my life, for me, it just was not something that I wanted to continue.�

...

“I’d like to apologize to everyone because, unlike the currently appointed NC Senator in District 31, I made mistakes. My job was embarrassing – I had to have a job! Nobody died, leaving me a millionaire capable of living in North Carolina’s most expensive neighborhood.�

Ron Jeremy posted:

NC Republican state senate candidate outed as former drag queen.

Sakarja posted:

I don't want to worsen this derail, so I'll make one final post

TenementFunster posted:

MAKE THIS BANNABLE NOW

Ron Jeremy posted:

NC Republican state senate candidate outed as former drag queen.


Edit: http://issuehawk.com/igor/2014/05/05/anti-gay-republican-outed-as-former-drag-queen.html

evil_bunnY posted:

Cialis Railman posted:

Stultus Maximus posted:

Also lol @ fast food workers coming close to 40 hours a week.

LCL-Dead posted:

To clarify:

Your average joe living in the barracks does not rate nor receive BAS or BAH (rank dependant, higher ranks of E-5 or above, at least in the USMC, could qualify for a partial of either) so you can remove those numbers from the list.

If, and I go off of my own personal experience here, a Marine did rate BAS/BAH payments he does 99.9% of the time only because he/she is married. If this couple lives in base housing, all of the BAH is consumed by the now private company that runs base housing (a complete loving ripoff of our troops) and the BAS now goes to feeding two mouths, assuming the wife doesn't work, as is the case with most young military wives.

LCL-Dead posted:

To clarify:

Your average joe living in the barracks does not rate nor receive BAS or BAH (rank dependant, higher ranks of E-5 or above, at least in the USMC, could qualify for a partial of either) so you can remove those numbers from the list.

If, and I go off of my own personal experience here, a Marine did rate BAS/BAH payments he does 99.9% of the time only because he/she is married. If this couple lives in base housing, all of the BAH is consumed by the now private company that runs base housing (a complete loving ripoff of our troops) and the BAS now goes to feeding two mouths, assuming the wife doesn't work, as is the case with most young military wives.

On top of all of that, your medical, dental, TSP and other services are deducted from your base pay prior to receiving your paychecks each pay period so it's not technically "free" anything for the military. It's just taken away before we ever see it so it seems "free" to the outside world.

The GI Bill is legit though and if you come out with a disability of any sort over a certain percentage the other monetary services and benefits are pretty up there.

-----

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

By the way, are you complaining that soldiers have to spend their entire food and housing stipend on food and housing? What is it supposed to be spent on, exactly?

RonJeremysBalzac posted:

Jack supports the fight for 15.

Gio posted:

context?

Gio posted:

context?

N. Senada posted: