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SuperCobra has 2800m range against helos  Maybe it's actually worth the retarded supply cost now. TY-90s will probably still beat them, but that makes a big difference. They now outrange all other helo AA missiles.Bradleys have optics. That's an interesting change. I usually use the riflemen inside for the optics. 20rpm Zhalos is just loving nuts. That's gonna own. RPOs got nerfed.
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May 6, 2014 14:41
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loving LOL the Feibao doesn't have any crew.
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May 6, 2014 14:43
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Jesus, napalm infantry got nerfed real hard. The suppressed weapons not revealing units seems like a neat idea. Probably won't have any real effect in practice though. The Tan-SAM is now basically a Crotale with 8 missiles. Might be good. Dezztroy fucked around with this message at 15:11 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 15:09
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I love the nonsensical Marder buff. I bet that was some kind of "realism" thing.
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May 6, 2014 15:13
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The Eugen mods are now sanitizing the thread. Let's see how many posts get deleted. That Sparouw fellow is a loving child, I swear.
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May 6, 2014 15:18
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I was about to call him out on his bullshit (It was going to contain the phrase "a cancer on the marshal program") but they locked the thread.
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May 6, 2014 15:20
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DatonKallandor posted:I love the nonsensical Marder buff. I bet that was some kind of "realism" thing. The Marders all have 2 top armor though, since the beginning of ALB. That's what made the German Roland so much better then the French one, that immunity to cheap cluster bombs. Prob more of a bug fix then anything.
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May 6, 2014 15:22
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DatonKallandor posted:I was about to call him out on his bullshit (It was going to contain the phrase "a cancer on the marshal program") but they locked the thread. How long was it live for? 4 hours or something? It didn't even get seen by the US players (location not faction) before it got locked even. Wow, this community. I honestly feel a bit sorry for Eugen. What other games have a community this toxic, at least on the official forums. I think it compares pretty well to the blizzard forums for any of their games.
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May 6, 2014 15:26
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Nationalism and stupidity goes a long way to make a terrible community. Medium tanks are only bad if you don't know how to use them properly, guys. I hope Sparouw's posts are all gone after the mods are done.
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May 6, 2014 15:27
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Bad moderation is really the root of the issue.
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May 6, 2014 15:32
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Calm down it got re-opened. It did get stupid though.
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May 6, 2014 15:33
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DatonKallandor posted:I was about to call him out on his bullshit (It was going to contain the phrase "a cancer on the marshal program") but they locked the thread. I see buying your avatar was a wise choice  And yeah, the thread is back up everyone, have a punt.
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May 6, 2014 15:37
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I just imagine the Eugen forums full of a bunch of guys yelling about how the Tiger was the best tank ever and Russian vehicles are made out of balsa wood. At least this is my experience with nationalistic military nerds.
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May 6, 2014 15:41
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Popete posted:I just imagine the Eugen forums full of a bunch of guys yelling about how the Tiger was the best tank ever and Russian vehicles are made out of balsa wood. Similar but there are plenty of USSR fanboys too arguing that the Soviets would have totally steamrolled World War III because they would have built [insert Red Alert-worthy retarded boondoggle prototype here] had the Berlin Wall not fallen, which should therefore be included. As if it loving matters. Really, you get it on all sides. I remember when the Longbow was announced there were American fans complaining about how it was doomed because it had no Stinger missiles. And there are more than a few people who still bitch about the M1A2 getting nerfed to 24AP. And holy poo poo, 4 pages gone. I guess that's only like, 40 posts over there though.
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May 6, 2014 15:45
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Last year I sold some thinly camouflaged Wargame-inspired T80 fanfic to one of the best magazines in science fiction. The story's up today. It's a love story about a Ural driver who just wants to be a T80U  (the ending is weirdly relevant to the ongoing metagame discussion, eugen buff tanks)
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May 6, 2014 16:14
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You made money thanks to this game. Live the dream brother, live the dream.
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May 6, 2014 16:26
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Xerxes17 posted:I like how the Sparouw internet defense force is now out in numbers. How dare I disregard the inane ramblings of some ~pro player~ who types like a 12 year old with brain damage. By playing Wargames, the members of the Eugen forums community show that they possess a deep understanding of not only this game, but Real Warfare too. That attack they carried out in their last game? Just like Hannibal at Cannae, or Keith at their Warhammer guild. Your statistics are meaningless because you just can't quantify anything at their level of skill, where an intuitive understanding of strategy and tactics possessed by this master race outweighs all else. L2P. By the way, people with ranked stats should be automatically kicked from lobbies, because they are abusers. See also: the Ace Pubbie Fallacy. Once the game Star Citizen is released in the 2020's, every pubbie that got griefed by goons in Eve Online is going to show the goons a thing or two, because pubbies innate intuitive skills at piloting space fighter aircraft will come to the fore and, compelled by the power of Christ Roberts, no unfair tricks will lay them low. Not this time. Mukip fucked around with this message at 16:37 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 16:29
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I'm actually crossposting from that thread because while I was typing it I think I realized how Eugen's price philosophy up until now could result in a systematic price error across all levels, but especially the lower price points. People have talked about it with the obvious granularity problem at the low end, but that problem may have propagated throughout the entire pricing structure through a misguided focus on unit stats. It's late and I was supposed to go to bed 40 minutes ago so forgive me if this is not actually a revelation to anyone. ********** Hartmann posted:
I think this deserves a direct response because it's the kind of thinking you have to let go of if you want to balance prices properly in a game with such a huge number of units with such a granular pricing scheme. At the lower end of the prices, there simply aren't that many price points to choose. Between 10 and 50 points, there are only 8 price points that can be assigned! All medium tanks have to fit in there! But the really important thing to understand is that there is no golden rule that a better unit must cost more than a worse unit. The T-55AM series is a good example. These are marine tanks; T-55 variants that were chosen for upgrade and use in the modern marines because the better T-64 and T-72 are just too heavy for the job. In an unrestricted deck, there's no real reason they have to compete with the T-64 or T-72. They can be worse for the same cost, because their one job is to be a marine tank. If you bring a marine deck, you bring T-55AMs. If you have an unrestricted you don't because there are better choices for the same cost... Is it a disaster if the T-55AM is not competitive with the T-64 in unrestricted decks? Of course not. But if the T-72 ends up bumped up 5 points (a 14% increase in cost) because it's better than a T-55AM and we can't have two unequal units sharing a price, is that a disaster? YES! Because we've now overpriced a bread-and-butter unit for most of REDFOR for the simple obstinate reason that it can't share a price point with an inferior tank. The T-55AM is irrelevant for 99% of multiplayer matches, and yes now the whole meta of the game has been messed up just because it "feels right" to keep the T-72 and T-55AM in different price slots. Multiply this problem across the entire medium tank range and you start to see the problem. Is a Leopard with a slightly better gun really worth 10 points more than a Leopard with a slightly worse gun, or are they only assigned those prices because better units need a higher price? And the Leopard 1A5, one of the clearest example of overpriced mediums, is its cost so high because it's really worth that much, or only because it's better than the other Leopards, so it must have a higher price? So now, we've got real pricing mistakes from the one simple mistake of believing that better units need to be balanced by higher prices, repeated out across the limited price points in the low end of the scale. So the point is, you have to not only step back from the idea that units must be balanced by price, you have to step back from the "armory warrior" idea that units with slightly different stats need to be balanced against each other at all. Who cares if a T-62 is slightly better than a T-55, if the real difference in their value on the battlefield is almost nothing? And then, if the T-62 is a little more expensive, then the T-72 has to be a little more expensive and so on and so on, until all low end tanks are mispriced. The real solution is to step back, take a deep breath, and as you put it, accept that "the lower end of the spectrum being hilariously crushed together." Because in terms of actual value, it already is. The prices need to be squashed together to match. Also I like his assertion that we'll have exactly the same no-tank meta, but with underpriced tanks spammed everywhere. 
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 16:41 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 16:37
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General Battuta posted:Last year I sold some thinly camouflaged Wargame-inspired T80 fanfic to one of the best magazines in science fiction. The story's up today. It's a love story about a Ural driver who just wants to be a T80U Wow, that's really good.
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May 6, 2014 16:40
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General Battuta posted:Last year I sold some thinly camouflaged Wargame-inspired T80 fanfic to one of the best magazines in science fiction. The story's up today. It's a love story about a Ural driver who just wants to be a T80U Please submit that story to Eugen as balance discussion.
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May 6, 2014 16:40
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Arglebargle III posted:Units with different limits costing the same Basically yes. But it's because Eugen has no plan on deck restrictions. They put them in without thinking through what it means for balance. Just like they're trying to make Cat C/B units balanced for cost even though there's no reason they need to be - they're Cat C/B, if you're Cat A there shouldn't be a reason to take them, because you should have a Cat A unit that fills the same role better at the same price. The same is true, as you've said, for the other deck restriction types. Marine or Airborne units don't need to be just as good or cheaper than unrestricted units.
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May 6, 2014 16:53
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I'm new to this. What does Cat A/B/C mean?
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May 6, 2014 16:54
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-Anders posted:I'm new to this. What does Cat A/B/C mean? They're optional deck restrictions you can take that filters units out based on the year they entered service. Cat-A is the full spectrum, Cat-B is <1985 and Cat-C is <1980. Airland Battle had the same system but the categories were moved back 5 years each. In red dragon this restriction is compensated by giving you more "activation points", or more slots in your deck. In Airland battle, it made each card contain more units by increasing availability. Most of the time, especially in Red Dragon, there isn't much reason to take one of these restrictions.
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May 6, 2014 16:58
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Basically in Red Dragon it means you can choose to not get your good units and in exchange you get to take even more lovely units. But they have to be different lovely units. In ALB it was having to take mostly lovely units but the few good old units you got more of.
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May 6, 2014 17:03
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Shanakin posted:They're optional deck restrictions you can take that filters units out based on the year they entered service. Cat-A is the full spectrum, Cat-B is <1985 and Cat-C is <1980. Airland Battle had the same system but the categories were moved back 5 years each. In ALB, the category deck restrictions allowed for some skewy and strong decks by buffing the availability. This is especially notable for example in a NATO airspam deck where +80% availability drastically improves your air game. In RD, the time categories are pretty much useless because AP is not very important. You can't really skew anything with AP, you just get to fill the last couple of slots of a worthless tab.
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May 6, 2014 17:04
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griffor posted:
Man, you can't make this poo poo up. Mukip posted:By playing Wargames, the members of the Eugen forums community show that they possess a deep understanding of not only this game, but Real Warfare too. That attack they carried out in their last game? Just like Hannibal at Cannae, or Keith at their Warhammer guild. Your statistics are meaningless because you just can't quantify anything at their level of skill, where an intuitive understanding of strategy and tactics possessed by this master race outweighs all else. L2P. By the way, people with ranked stats should be automatically kicked from lobbies, because they are abusers. I chuckled. Actually, I think it's pretty undisputed that you're one of the better players too. Does your support for my post then cancel out fuckwit's opposition like matter/anti-matter?
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May 6, 2014 17:21
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Mukips support doesn't count because Sparrow said he has bad micro.
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May 6, 2014 17:30
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Shanakin posted:Mukips support doesn't count because Sparrow said he has bad micro. I thought the desired endstate of Wargame's design was that micro would be less important than good planning?
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May 6, 2014 17:34
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IIRC I beat him in practically every ranked match throughout EE and ALB. He is buddies with a guy who started impersonating and obsessively commenting about me on the Eugen forums for some time (who was also a marshall, obs.). They are members of an unrelated French gaming forum which is probably where a lot of his supporters are coming from.
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May 6, 2014 17:38
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Mukip posted:IIRC I beat him in practically every ranked match throughout EE and ALB. He is buddies with a guy who started impersonating and obsessively commenting about me on the Eugen forums for some time (who was also a marshall, obs.). They are members of an unrelated French gaming forum which is probably where a lot of his supporters are coming from. As far as I can tell they are just the vocal outpost of the ~top ranked~ cool kids club that like to give each other a reach-around whenever possible.
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May 6, 2014 17:42
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So uh, what's his beef with medium tanks? I don't get it. Is he just using this thread as an opportunity to puff up his own ego? Maybe he just wants to keep medium tanks down so his 1337 heavy tank micro skillz remain relevant 
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May 6, 2014 17:53
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Xerxes17 posted:As far as I can tell they are just the vocal outpost of the ~top ranked~ cool kids club that like to give each other a reach-around whenever possible. It's particularly sad when you realize a lot of them are only highly ranked because they've played like 300 ranked games as opposed to the 55-60 Mukip played to get to the same point. Mazz fucked around with this message at 17:57 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 17:54
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Anyone actually tried RD ranked? I heard it was pretty buggy at launch, otherwise I might have been interested getting in.
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May 6, 2014 17:59
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Mukip posted:IIRC I beat him in practically every ranked match throughout EE and ALB. He is buddies with a guy who started impersonating and obsessively commenting about me on the Eugen forums for some time (who was also a marshall, obs.). They are members of an unrelated French gaming forum which is probably where a lot of his supporters are coming from. You only won a game against him because your micro was so bad, that he was laughing too hard to properly command his troops. So it was kind of like Napoleon at waterloo, except with laughing instead of chronic nausea.
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May 6, 2014 17:59
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sparouw posted:
God drat this sparrow dude's schtick is literally "1v1 me human being!" e: and it's locked again Mortabis fucked around with this message at 18:15 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 18:12
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Shanakin posted:Anyone actually tried RD ranked? I heard it was pretty buggy at launch, otherwise I might have been interested getting in. If it is anything like ALB ranked it's like smashing your dick with a hammer without the emotional intensity. To what I have seen, anyone who was well and truly good (Mukip, Tigga) saw that the ranked mode of this game is just unmitigated poo poo and stopped bothering. So now there's a bunch of people who derive personal fulfillment from being the best in a game mode no right thinking person gives the slightest of fucks about.
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May 6, 2014 18:17
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loving lol. I was about to post that I was going to bed and given that the thread had descended to the new low of "come at me bro" arguments I was sad I was going to miss all the deleted post. But the thread got locked as I was writing it.
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May 6, 2014 18:20
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Mortabis posted:God drat this sparrow dude's schtick is literally "1v1 me human being!"
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May 6, 2014 18:30
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Lmfao went to bed and that thread had 3 comments. Now its amazing.quote:This was a good thread till sparrow showed up. Dandywalken fucked around with this message at 19:06 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 18:53
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Both sparouw and spektre got 24-hour bans, laff. spektre got so mad about the excel warriors that he posted a banme. Unfortunately though I'm pretty sure they'll win in the end, because Eugen seems to hate major redesign ideas that were not invented by themselves. There have been a lot of well-argued redesign proposals by various people (both pubbies and marshals) over the years but none of them have ever been implemented. The only time when Eugen actually seems to listen to the marshals seems to be in explicit "we want feedback on this" threads, and that's one of the major reasons as to why I quit. There just didn't seem to be any point. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 19:47 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 19:38
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