Europa Universalis IV: Is that... is that backwards singing?

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Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Lori posted:

It says the reasons there on the tooltip. Their base tax, compared to yours, is too high for you to diplomatically vassalize them. If I recall, they need to have under 7% of your base tax to diplovassalize.

I think it's actually quadratic, so your total base tax has to be greater than the square of their base tax times some factor. That way it becomes increasingly more difficult to diplo vassalize larger countries.

# ? May 6, 2014 22:02

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 05:48

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Fister Roboto posted:

I think it's actually quadratic, so your total base tax has to be greater than the square of their base tax times some factor. That way it becomes increasingly more difficult to diplo vassalize larger countries.

I wish for stuff like this the tool tip would actually show something like "Tax base too high 21/19" showing that their score of 21 is higher than your score of 19 in terms of the ratio.

# ? May 6, 2014 22:11

SurgicalOntologist: Jun 17, 2004

On a more general note, it would be interesting if you could find out the AI's answer to hypothetical proposals. The equivalent of asking a vassal, "Hey-let's say I happened to own Ruthenia in the near future, would you buy it from me?" or in this case "If I conquer Danzig, then would you want to be my vassal?" Of course it would be impossible to implement, and it would be far easier to make the tooltips more informative in the few cases where the mechanics are opaque, like selling provinces and vassalizing.

# ? May 6, 2014 22:40

Dibujante: Jul 27, 2004

SurgicalOntologist posted:

On a more general note, it would be interesting if you could find out the AI's answer to hypothetical proposals. The equivalent of asking a vassal, "Hey-let's say I happened to own Ruthenia in the near future, would you buy it from me?" or in this case "If I conquer Danzig, then would you want to be my vassal?" Of course it would be impossible to implement, and it would be far easier to make the tooltips more informative in the few cases where the mechanics are opaque, like selling provinces and vassalizing.

Selling provinces being opaque would be less lovely if EU4 had a more dynamic vassal system that allowed you to basically grant semi-autonomy to any province or group of provinces as a last resort.

# ? May 6, 2014 22:41

SurgicalOntologist: Jun 17, 2004

True, I've ended up with random provinces I couldn't core because I forgot that the AI won't accept provinces that you can't core. It would have been nice to just give it up. That restriction makes zero sense also. As Russia trying to help my vassal Timurids to eat Khorasan, they ended up with a ring of provinces surrounding an untouchable Khorasan center. Which is kind of ridiculous considering I owned 75% of Asia.

E: Also I sort of wonder what the game would be like if there were way way more cores and they took like 5x as long to go away. Maybe also a de facto OPM core for every province, sort of what you suggest. Any mods that do anything like this?

E2: Maybe a more reasonable approach would be for every nation to have an associated culture which ensures the cores never go away, as opposed to only one nation per culture. Some nations are just screwed as is.

SurgicalOntologist fucked around with this message at 22:54 on May 6, 2014

# ? May 6, 2014 22:47

Poil: Mar 17, 2007

And you can't even sell the drat uncorable provinces back to their original owners for 0 gold. :argh:

# ? May 6, 2014 23:12

Roadie: Jun 30, 2013

Dibujante posted:

Selling provinces being opaque would be less lovely if EU4 had a more dynamic vassal system that allowed you to basically grant semi-autonomy to any province or group of provinces as a last resort.

This would also make the colonial nation thing with totally arbitrary splits a lot less silly sometimes.

# ? May 6, 2014 23:12

Lori: Oct 6, 2011

I wish forming colonial nations was optional :smith:

# ? May 6, 2014 23:15

DentedLamp: Aug 2, 2012

I'm kind of disappointed they've not yet added any national ideas for Eastern African nations, or even just a national idea set for the Eastern African cultures, having seen that new Kilwa achievement. They know the region exists; can't they throw it even just a single bone?

# ? May 7, 2014 02:12

Trujillo: Jul 10, 2007

Dibujante posted:

Will the rest of the world be able to compete if they do get to the higher tech levels? As it stands, end-game same-tech Indian or Chinese units are generally half as effective as end-game European units, and African/New World units are never competitive.

They only mentioned Muslim units specifically but I expect they'll all be getting a boost but I'll ask about the rest next time.

If I want to become a republic and let peasant rebels overrun me do I start with 100 republican tradition or none?

# ? May 7, 2014 04:35

Dibujante: Jul 27, 2004

Trujillo posted:

They only mentioned Muslim units specifically but I expect they'll all be getting a boost but I'll ask about the rest next time.

If I want to become a republic and let peasant rebels overrun me do I start with 100 republican tradition or none?

I have a vague recollection of starting with 50.

# ? May 7, 2014 04:46

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

In an England game I played I once got flipped by the Civil War event and started at zero. :smith:

# ? May 7, 2014 04:49

goodness: Jan 3, 2012; just keep swimming

DentedLamp posted:

I'm kind of disappointed they've not yet added any national ideas for Eastern African nations, or even just a national idea set for the Eastern African cultures, having seen that new Kilwa achievement. They know the region exists; can't they throw it even just a single bone?

Europa Universalis 5: Africa

# ? May 7, 2014 05:18

Tahirovic: Feb 25, 2009; Fun Shoe

Lori posted:

I wish forming colonial nations was optional

Giving you the choice with every new colony would be nice. You're allowed to keep the colony or select a adjacent colonial nation that should get it. Then add a mechanic that increases liberty desire the bigger a colonial nation gets, there has to be a drawback to a super all of north America colonial nation.

# ? May 7, 2014 07:53

Jolan: Feb 5, 2007

SurgicalOntologist posted:

True, I've ended up with random provinces I couldn't core because I forgot that the AI won't accept provinces that you can't core. It would have been nice to just give it up. That restriction makes zero sense also.

I read somewhere today that that's a bug to be fixed, and that the AI should accept provinces if you select them from the list instead of the map. Haven't tried it myself yet, though.

But yeah, either vassal feeding should be made easier again, coring should become cheaper/faster, negative overextension effects should be gradual with time, or more local, or controllable with harsh treatment or something, or there should be another way of handling a handful of uncored provinces without your entire game going to poo poo because of the penalties and negative events. I really don't get why perfectly content people in London would start revolting because I conquered some new land in India.

And they should bring back the mechanic that reduced required warscore for provinces that had been sieged for a long time, too. Lategame, I'm lucky if I manage to steal two provinices from another European power for 100% warscore, let alone trying to vassalize anyone in a peace deal.

Jolan fucked around with this message at 13:21 on May 7, 2014

# ? May 7, 2014 13:15

Pyromancer: Apr 29, 2011; This man must look upon the fire, smell of it, warm his hands by it, stare into its heart

Jolan posted:

I read somewhere today that that's a bug to be fixed, and that the AI should accept provinces if you select them from the list instead of the map. Haven't tried it myself yet, though.

It's not that AI doesn't want to accept it, it just disables the send button. AI itself has no issue with selling such provinces to you or other AIs. Normally it doesn't annex such provinces in peace at all, but if you're the one making the peace deal you can make your ally take the AE and then get an offer to buy the provinces off him(but no guarantee he'll offer it to you first and not to the previous owner or keeps it until patriot rebels take it).

Generally AI accepts three kinds of provinces: the cores, the claims and the previously owned. If it's a vassal it'll take your cores too as they immediately switch to be his cores. It doesn't take anything else not even same culture/religion, or old cores it never actually held. It won't ever take what it can't core, it also won't take non-cores if it has any overextension, so no more than one non-core province at a time.

# ? May 7, 2014 13:45

Zuhzuhzombie!!: Apr 17, 2008; FACTS ARE A CONSPIRACY BY THE CAPITALIST OPRESSOR

Playing Castille, get PU with France (!!!), accept it, piss off Aragon, kick their rear end with France's help, get PU with Aragon, vassalize and integrate Naples, vassalize and integrate Savoy.

3/4s of Europe taken over by 1550.

ed

More newbie questions.

What are you guys talking about specifically? If an enemy has to release a vassal, does that become mine or are they independent? How do I award provinces to my allies in a war?

Also, is it at all possible to get more than 100% war score? Portugal has an independent colony in North America, and a few provinces in Africa, as well as that island between NA and Europe but even picking them off one by one in wars they stay at around 130% war score for total annexation.

It's not possible to turn provinces in North Africa into independent colonies, correct?

Is it best to reach Asia by going East and around North/South America?

If utilizing forts, I am currently doing it like I would a Civ game. Put a bunch in choke points and fill them up with smaller armies, retreat to them if necessary. Any better way to do so?

Is it worth building those specific factories/plantations in my own continent? I haven't really figured out if increasing grain production is specifically worth it or not and have been ignoring building them in my colonies since they'll eventually turn independent anyway.

If I get the mission to increase my money from trade would building those specific factories/plantations help to achieve that?

Zuhzuhzombie!! fucked around with this message at 15:50 on May 7, 2014

# ? May 7, 2014 15:41

Dibujante: Jul 27, 2004

Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:

What are you guys talking about specifically? If an enemy has to release a vassal, does that become mine or are they independent? How do I award provinces to my allies in a war?

If you force an enemy to release a country, that country becomes independent but thinks highly of you - it's pretty easy to vassalize them if they're small enough, are a monarchy, and are the right religion group.

Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:

Also, is it at all possible to get more than 100% war score? Portugal has an independent colony in North America, and a few provinces in Africa, as well as that island between NA and Europe but even picking them off one by one in wars they stay at around 130% war score for total annexation.

It is not possible

You will have to do this in two wars.

Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:

It's not possible to turn provinces in North Africa into independent colonies, correct?

Not currently possible - in Wealth of Nations you might be able to make them into trade companies.

Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:

Is it best to reach Asia by going East and around North/South America?

It's best to go around Africa. If you control West Africa, South Africa, and Zanzibar, then you can send SE Asian trade directly through that conduit.

Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:

If utilizing forts, I am currently doing it like I would a Civ game. Put a bunch in choke points and fill them up with smaller armies, retreat to them if necessary. Any better way to do so?

In this game, forts are basically attrition magnets. Put hard-to-crack forts on important places and your enemies will take attrition longer while trying to break them. The ideal scenario is to force them to siege down big forts in places with a low supply limit.

That said, forts are nowhere near as useful as in Civ. If you don't have a military to back up your forts, your enemy can walk past them. Don't rely on them to compensate for a weak military. They do not grant a combat bonus to armies in their province, so retreating to a fort will not save you.

Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:

Is it worth building those specific factories/plantations in my own continent? I haven't really figured out if increasing grain production is specifically worth it or not and have been ignoring building them in my colonies since they'll eventually turn independent anyway.

I like them for my own continent, mainly because you keep the production value and probably also get to keep all the trade value.

Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:

If I get the mission to increase my money from trade would building those specific factories/plantations help to achieve that?

Sort of. For every $1 of extra production value one of those buildings produces for you, it'll also produce about $1 of trade value. So if you have a lot of those buildings it will push your trade income % to closer to 50%. If you're below 50% (probably) then this will help. But it won't get you all the way to 60% - for that, you need to sit on top of a lucrative trade chain.

# ? May 7, 2014 15:59

Zuhzuhzombie!!: Apr 17, 2008; FACTS ARE A CONSPIRACY BY THE CAPITALIST OPRESSOR

Awesome and thank you! If you wouldn't mind, could you explain province supply limits? I'm always having to bust up large armies as my borders expand due to some provinces limiting an army size that others do not.

I'm still trying to figure out trade supply chains as well. In my current game I completely dominate in trade and am the largest power in practically all nodes. What should I do with my merchants in this scenario? Should I ever collect from trade?

# ? May 7, 2014 16:08

Gort: Aug 18, 2003; Good day what ho cup of tea

The main thing to know about supply limits is that they're significantly higher on the coast.

# ? May 7, 2014 16:19

Jolan: Feb 5, 2007

Pyromancer posted:

It's not that AI doesn't want to accept it, it just disables the send button. AI itself has no issue with selling such provinces to you or other AIs. Normally it doesn't annex such provinces in peace at all, but if you're the one making the peace deal you can make your ally take the AE and then get an offer to buy the provinces off him(but no guarantee he'll offer it to you first and not to the previous owner or keeps it until patriot rebels take it).

Generally AI accepts three kinds of provinces: the cores, the claims and the previously owned. If it's a vassal it'll take your cores too as they immediately switch to be his cores. It doesn't take anything else not even same culture/religion, or old cores it never actually held. It won't ever take what it can't core, it also won't take non-cores if it has any overextension, so no more than one non-core province at a time.

Eh, yes, sorry, I meant to say that selecting provinces that you don't have a core in, but the AI has a core or a claim on, from the list instead of directly from the map should not disable the 'send'-button, but again, haven't tried it myself yet.

# ? May 7, 2014 16:51

A Tartan Tory: Mar 26, 2010; You call that a shotgun?!

So uh, I did a test of a Minghals thing today.

If you westernise as the Minghals, but save and reload when you get the event disabling the faction system, you can get yourself as a fully westernised version of the Minghals. Enjoy your God mode I guess?

# ? May 7, 2014 17:20

Trujillo: Jul 10, 2007

One thing about forts/supply limits is you might actually want to avoid building forts on provinces with low supply limits because building forts raises the limits. It seems kind of self-defeating and maybe forts should only raise your own supply limit but that's the way it is. Build forts in your capital, on islands, on mountains, hotly contested borders or other strategic places but your military points are better spent on army buildings/military tech/ideas for the most part instead of completely blanketing your land in high level forts. It also doesn't help that they're used against you when the enemy/rebels takes them over.

# ? May 7, 2014 17:48

Dibujante: Jul 27, 2004

A Tartan Tory posted:

So uh, I did a test of a Minghals thing today.

If you westernise as the Minghals, but save and reload when you get the event disabling the faction system, you can get yourself as a fully westernised version of the Minghals. Enjoy your God mode I guess?

Aw, now I need to do my Minghals run yet again

I ragequit the first time I lost factions.

# ? May 7, 2014 17:50

OneTwentySix: Nov 5, 2007; fun
FUN
FUN

That only works without ironman, right? Or can you ironman, get the lost factions event, exit to main menu, and then play with factions and western tech/units?

# ? May 7, 2014 21:17

Tahirovic: Feb 25, 2009; Fun Shoe

I actually gave up my Minghal game because it got too boring. I think WC is possible with those mechanics but it just doesn't seem fun.

# ? May 8, 2014 08:11

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Yeah, I hit the same wall. I like chasing achievements, but I just don't think I have it in me to finish a WC, or even come close really.

# ? May 8, 2014 08:22

Vodos: Jul 17, 2009; And how do we do that? We hurt a lot of people...

Ditto, I have an Ottoman HRE save with the western half of the world and a Minghal save with the eastern half, I just can't bring myself to finish them. I wish I could merge them.

Playing Poland now and I can't get the Winged Hussars achievement to fire. I have Quality and Aristocracy, I've tried switching cavalry types, I've quit to menu and reloaded several times, it's an ironman save...

This is what the military screen looks like:

And this is the script check for the achievement:

code:

achievement_winged_hussars = {
	id = 52
	
	possible = {
		ironman = yes
		start_date = 1444.11.11
	}
	
	happened = {
		has_unit_type = polish_winged_hussar
		has_global_modifier_value = {
			which = cavalry_power
			value = 0.5
		}
	}
}

Any ideas?

# ? May 8, 2014 14:47

Jolan: Feb 5, 2007

Vodos posted:

Ditto, I have an Ottoman HRE save with the western half of the world and a Minghal save with the eastern half, I just can't bring myself to finish them. I wish I could merge them.

Playing Poland now and I can't get the Winged Hussars achievement to fire. I have Quality and Aristocracy, I've tried switching cavalry types, I've quit to menu and reloaded several times, it's an ironman save...

This is what the military screen looks like:

And this is the script check for the achievement:
code:
achievement_winged_hussars = {
	id = 52
	
	possible = {
		ironman = yes
		start_date = 1444.11.11
	}
	
	happened = {
		has_unit_type = polish_winged_hussar
		has_global_modifier_value = {
			which = cavalry_power
			value = 0.5
		}
	}
}
Any ideas?

Only two things I can think of is that you're playing a game that you started pre-1.2 or that you didn't take the earliest starting date, but I doubt any of those is true in your case. Try quitting the game entirely (not just to main menu) and then reloading, sometimes that jostles the achievement updates.

# ? May 8, 2014 15:28

A Tartan Tory: Mar 26, 2010; You call that a shotgun?!

OneTwentySix posted:

That only works without ironman, right? Or can you ironman, get the lost factions event, exit to main menu, and then play with factions and western tech/units?

Without Ironman, Ironman saves as soon as an event comes up IIRC? Someone correct me on that if I'm wrong. No, I didn't do any Minghal game on Ironman, because if I am getting a WC achievement, I want it legit (getting so loving close with England now, last attempt had me containing all the colonizers and Russia, but I couldn't take Megablob Ottomans out in time.).

I have also been considering doing a 'lets learn' for EU4 now that I have some free time again, a lot of people still don't seem to understand combat or trade mechanics, nor a lot of the small cheesy things you can do to save monarch points.

A Tartan Tory fucked around with this message at 17:44 on May 8, 2014

# ? May 8, 2014 17:41

Lustful Man Hugs: Jul 18, 2010

Surprised this hasn't been posted yet but here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clau80YFtg4

# ? May 8, 2014 17:47

Pyromancer: Apr 29, 2011; This man must look upon the fire, smell of it, warm his hands by it, stare into its heart

A Tartan Tory posted:

Without Ironman, Ironman saves as soon as an event comes up IIRC? Someone correct me on that if I'm wrong.

No, Ironman saves when you pick an option, not when event pops up

# ? May 8, 2014 17:51

Jolan: Feb 5, 2007

A Tartan Tory posted:

I have also been considering doing a 'lets learn' for EU4 now that I have some free time again, a lot of people still don't seem to understand combat or trade mechanics, nor a lot of the small cheesy things you can do to save monarch points.

God yes, please do.

# ? May 8, 2014 17:54

A Tartan Tory: Mar 26, 2010; You call that a shotgun?!

Pyromancer posted:

No, Ironman saves when you pick an option, not when event pops up

Huh, the more you know I guess! Go nuts with your westernized Minghals then if that tickles your fancy.

Jolan posted:

God yes, please do.

Out of curiosity, what do you find are the hardest parts of the game to understand? Combat mechanisms? Trade? Colonialism? Managing AE?

# ? May 8, 2014 18:38

Munin: Nov 14, 2004

A Tartan Tory posted:

Out of curiosity, what do you find are the hardest parts of the game to understand? Combat mechanisms? Trade? Colonialism? Managing AE?

The bits I'd highlight is how to best acquire territory without having to sink all your Monarch points into cores and how to best manage and maximise your monarch points in general. Monarch points seems to be one of the things many people seem to get hung up on as far as EU4 is concerned. It is also one of the few resources where mismanagement can seriously shaft you for an extended part of the game.

After that I'd say that the combat mechanisms, trade and AE can all be quite opaque to new players. I wouldn't really want to rank them in order of opacity. That said AE and combat missteps are the ones most likely to directly lead to game overs. Trade missteps just generally lead to you having slightly less money to play with.

IMO colonialism is pretty straightforward, wrinkles around how your colonial nations can drag you into their wars aside.

# ? May 8, 2014 18:58

Vodos: Jul 17, 2009; And how do we do that? We hurt a lot of people...

Jolan posted:

Only two things I can think of is that you're playing a game that you started pre-1.2 or that you didn't take the earliest starting date, but I doubt any of those is true in your case. Try quitting the game entirely (not just to main menu) and then reloading, sometimes that jostles the achievement updates.

It is in fact an old game I set aside at some point, but I can't remember how old exactly. Started a fresh game to go a different route after having a laugh at this "guide". I think Austria's AI is going nuts, declared war on Bohemia within a year to revoke electorate, now it's 1486 and they're down to 4 electors with apparently no intention to replace them.

# ? May 8, 2014 20:08

Donald Duck: Apr 2, 2007

Tahirovic posted:

I actually gave up my Minghal game because it got too boring. I think WC is possible with those mechanics but it just doesn't seem fun.

If you haven't already, you should do the Najd achievement. Its now 500 provinces in Europe/Asia/Africa, I found it a lot more fun than doing Minghals.

# ? May 8, 2014 20:20

Jolan: Feb 5, 2007

A Tartan Tory posted:

Out of curiosity, what do you find are the hardest parts of the game to understand? Combat mechanisms? Trade? Colonialism? Managing AE?

Everything, really. I've got a decent grip on most of the game, but I still often lose battles I should've won, or have trouble chaining wars without having to wait out or break a truce, or find myself in terribly short supply of monarch points,... I think trade and everything related with it is still the topic I least understand, like when and where you should build trade buildings, how you should try and maximize your winnings with only two merchants and a handful of ships, how to increase variables like mercantilism and trade steering aside from ideas, things like that. Mercantilism in particular: every game I get bombarded with events that force me to sacrifice either it or a bunch of diplo points, and I've never seen an event to get any back or increase it. I'm guessing WoN will completely revamp at least that bit, considering there'll be an achievement for getting 100% mercantilism.

But really, anything you can say to get a better understanding of this game will be fascinating.

Vodos posted:

It is in fact an old game I set aside at some point, but I can't remember how old exactly.

Patch 1.2 came out somewhere late september, and I think it added the achievement (which is why it was disabled in existing Poland games, since the game starts checking eligibility for the achievement at the start of a game).

And speaking of weird games: I tried my hand at the Ottomans last night (god drat, Islam is so much more interesting than Christianity), and England managed to lose all of Ireland to France after a failed attempt to conquer Brittany. And I found out what happens when your dynasty dies out; Turkey is now ruled by Crimean blood, which means that I could eventually PU my long-time ally who managed to kill of Muskovy. Not quite the death sentence it was in CK2, luckily.

# ? May 8, 2014 20:45

goodness: Jan 3, 2012; just keep swimming

Anyone interested in a US afternoon game? 2-3 days a week?

# ? May 8, 2014 22:27

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 05:48

Dibujante: Jul 27, 2004

goodness posted:

Anyone interested in a US afternoon game? 2-3 days a week?

If you post things in the group chat I may occasionally drop in and sub for a player / assume control of an AI but I can't reliably show up.

# ? May 8, 2014 22:30

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Europa Universalis IV: Is that... is that backwards singing?

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