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Genocyber posted:And there were enough difficult bosses to satisfy that desire; Ruin Sentinels, Smelter Demon, Velstadt, Lost Sinner I'm not sure if having a 100% physical def. shield completely trivializes Lost Sinner or what, but I've never had trouble with him - it's one of the few bosses I beat easily on my first try, and I'm terrible at the game. Seemed just like a regular enemy with a bunch more HP. Based on how often I get summoned if I plop a sign near that door it seems to be a lot harder without a shield / with a non-tower one, so it seems like an easy place to farm Fidelity / souls at least!
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May 8, 2014 16:53
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Dropbear posted:Is it just me, or is the Belfry just complete horseshit? It's a massive chore to even get to the boss door; I get invaded by two phantoms almost instantly when entering the area. Fighting one would be okay, two at a time is just annoying. So, or course I tried burning an effigy.. and it doesn't seem to work here at all, I got invaded instantly again. Wonderful. Finally one of my mad sprints to the fog door made it and I managed to actually fight the boss. Yup its pretty bullshit, disabling your network adapter under network connection is what I do when I'm not up for the forced PvP zones. A character that rushes to iron keep asap can be running around with a +10 lightning uchigantana in no time. Cheeses the gently caress out of invaders since people generally aren't min/max'd there.
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May 8, 2014 16:54
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I'm not really one that complained about the bosses, but unique boss mechanics such as Old Monk, Chariot, Storm King and even lesser ones such as Old Hero, Fool's Idol, Gwyndolin, Seath or ones that are albeit more 'puzzle'-y such as Bed of Chaos or the Dragon God (but gently caress the Ancient Dragon) make boss encounters a lot more interesting, in my opinion. Even if a lot of 'em are just gimmicks, adapting to the situation and trying to figure out what you have to do quickly before you get your rear end handed to you is neat.
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May 8, 2014 16:56
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Dropbear posted:I'm not sure if having a 100% physical def. shield completely trivializes Lost Sinner or what, but I've never had trouble with him - it's one of the few bosses I beat easily on my first try, and I'm terrible at the game. Seemed just like a regular enemy with a bunch more HP. Based on how often I get summoned if I plop a sign near that door it seems to be a lot harder without a shield / with a non-tower one, so it seems like an easy place to farm Fidelity / souls at least! Having a good shield can trivialize the Lost Sinner, unfortunately; she doesn't have any way of dealing with that. And she's even easier now that her HP and damage have been nerfed. That brings up something I've been considering; if all the bosses in ng were their ng+ selves, stats and adds included. Well perhaps not all; some bosses like Smelter have enough HP/do enough damage in ng already, but others (like Prowling Magus & Congregation, or Lost Sinner now) are a bit weak for bosses. Being a bit stronger, and having the extra enemies in the cases of bosses that do, would help a lot I think. OTOH newbies tend to have trouble with these bosses as is, so that might not be a good idea.
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May 8, 2014 16:57
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I have a doubt: I plan to make a Str/Fth character, and I'm using the Mace as my weapon. Roughly at how many points of Faith will infusing the Mace with Lightning give me more damage than keeping it normal? I currently have 24 Str/24 Fth.
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May 8, 2014 16:58
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I was just punched to death. Not with any ceastuses, just with his fists. I didn't know what to do, I just saw him with just his fists and.. 
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May 8, 2014 16:59
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VisAbsoluta posted:I have a doubt: I plan to make a Str/Fth character, and I'm using the Mace as my weapon. Roughly at how many points of Faith will infusing the Mace with Lightning give me more damage than keeping it normal? Weapons that start out pure physical and then are made elemental get jack all from scaling. From base Faith to 50 you'd probably go from a bonus of 10 lightning damage to a bonus of 40; not a big difference. For weapons with innate lightning, such as the Heide weapons, or Defender Greatsword, scaling does make a difference. That said, lightning would still be better in two cases; 1.) virtually always in PVP and 2.) in PVE if you buff it with SLB (assuming the enemies aren't super resistant to lightning). More simply; pure phys is generally the best for PVE, especially if it's strike damage, elemental is generall best for PVP.
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May 8, 2014 17:01
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Genocyber posted:OTOH newbies tend to have trouble with these bosses as is, so that might not be a good idea. But that's how you make them improve! If the bosses (or anything) don't require good technique/intelligence to defeat then noobs will stay noobs forever. A true Dark Souls player is forged in the fires of defeat. That's why invading is just a blood fountain right now if you know what you're doing. Those people who don't even know how to fight bosses? They have no idea how to fight another human being. I'm not even afraid of summons at the moment, I just stroll up and kill the lot of them because I've fought hundreds of battle in the arena/invasions while most of them have barely seen a hostile phantom outside the belltowers.
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May 8, 2014 17:01
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One other significant change is that unlike DS1 you do the 4 Lord Soul areas first and the straight path of areas second - I feel this may help account for the "overlong ending" the game has. DS1 had you relatively restricted first (but still far more connectivity and wandering enabled than in DS2's "restricted" endgame portion) and then you could do the 4 areas in any order you wanted, giving you more freedom. DS2 gives you freedom at the start (but not really since you are hampered by various item/Dragonrider checks) and then slowly narrows down the number of paths you can take to progress the story. The 4 lords don't seem to be connected anymore either (they didn't fight a war together, as the first 4 lords did, as indicated in the excellent infodump DS1 intro...), they're just kind of there and you need their souls so ok let's go kill them 
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May 8, 2014 17:01
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DS1: gently caress the Bed of Chaos fight! DS2: Why aren't there more fights like Bed of Chaos?
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May 8, 2014 17:02
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Let me start by saying that these quotes below mine are all valid points, some of which agree with each other, and some which don't. Because it was a few pages back, the issue was my post on how FROM's failure to address cheating is the proximate cause of most of peoples' frustrations with PVP. Well, it was about blaming FROM for not seeming to understand what the issue is, TBH. But the part that people seemed to take away from my post - and to take exception to - was my statements to the effect that the PVP system is what made Dark Souls games special, or at least different from a generic single player RPG. This is the relevant part of my post, and you can go back to read the whole post to see it wasn't really out of context: buzzsaw.gif posted:What I am trying to say is that preventing this type of activity should have been a priority when making DS2...going through an entire playthrough of the game without getting invaded at all REALLY takes away from the experience we had in DS and DS1. I mean, it's almost like those invasions WERE the thing that made the games special - without them, these games are just going from point A to point B killing monsters along the way, and leveling up, upgrading your gear and getting new gear just like every other generic fantasy setting RPG. The responses: Cardiovorax posted:You should really just speak for yourself there. I basically haven't PVP'd Dark Souls even once, because I could never be arsed to make a GFWL account, so everything I enjoyed about DS1 has nothing whatsoever to do with PVP. It's a complete and enjoyable game without any multiplayer at all. Some people just don't care. Don't blame you on GFWL. And I understand your point completely; I played Demons' Souls either offline or undead specifically to avoid PVP, because I found the idea of invasions by players who were probably much better than me at 1v1 combat to be...well, I was chicken poo poo. I didn't do PVP until I played the game many years later after I had become bored with Dark Souls and just wanted some nostalgia. By that time, most of the people still playing Demons' Souls were new players that just got the game as a free digital download with Playstation Plus, so they weren't a challenge...but your point stands, because I did find Demons' Souls to be a thoroughly enjoyable single-player experience. However, Dark Souls was INFINITELY more rewarding when I embraced the multiplayer aspect. Manatee Cannon posted:Yeah I agree, the pvp doesn't make or break this series. I don't mind the constant invasion threat nearly as much as I thought I would but the rats/bell cops being in the way of bosses kinda sucks. Point taken. PVP doesn't make or break the series. It does, however, make it stand out as special. Captain Oblivious posted:(In response to Cardiovorax) Yeah. It's just not a real problem is all because there aren't constant invasions in DS2. Cracked Red Eye Orbs are so unavailable in NG that your odds of being invaded are incredibly low. Your odds of constantly being invaded are astronomically low. True to an extent - and in my opinion an invasion threat (at a reasonable soul level...getting invaded in Giants/Heide/Wharf and maybe Bastille on NG is probably not fair to the player...and I mean "not fair" in the "the developers probably legitimately believe that new players should not have to face this bullshit until they can be reasonably equipped to do so" sense, not "not fair" in the sense that "Dark Souls never promised to be fair." That being said, however, after a certain point in the character's development/progress, PVP is a significant event that is really missing from the second 2/3 of the game in NG. I think you'd get some real fights - not just some jerkoff glass cannon caster invading your game and oneshotting you with Affinity. Plus, if PVP is started here, the QUALITY of PVP can only be better in NG+...which, right now, consists of either said glass cannons that will either instantly succeed or they will fail because they are one-trick ponies, or a footrace to determine if the person running forward can outpace the person running backwards with shield raised (the foregoing is also my opinion - I'm not really doing the arena dueling yet; this just comes from my experiences getting invaded or bellbro encounters...and ratbros, I guess, but that's not really representative of PVP). Jay Rust posted:It's probably just a matter of taste. But I wouldn't say that PvP and PvP alone is what makes Dark Souls the game that it is; personally, I love the series because of the slowish yet deliberate combat system, the wonderful vistas, and a vaguely oppressive atmosphere that is further enforced by the knowledge that death is just one false step away. You could completely remove the PvP and I wouldn't mind. I don't disagree with this in any way. Manatee Cannon posted:I don't like pvp. I don't like people wasting my time. It's annoying and it sucks that it isn't optional if you want to go through those areas while online. OK, this here...this is what I'm talking about. I'm not saying your point is invalid, because it clearly is your honest opinion. HOWEVER, consider the amount of content in the game that has to do with multiplayer and PVP in particular. PVP is integral to the experience of the game. It doesn't "make or break" the game, as has been said before, but this game was created with purposely created PVP that can happen at random and against opponents that are not chosen by either player (dragons and red soapstones being the exception to this). It's not something that was just sort of 'tacked on' as an additional feature. The PVP is a central part of the way the world works...shifting times, shifting worlds which intersect at random - or at least by means unknown - and the purpose of every player, NPC, and creature in the game is to collect the souls. Hollows do it mindlessly, and bosses have their own motives, but players and NPCs clearly have every motivation to get souls, and collecting them via combat is one attractive method to do so. It's part of the game...it's the price for being able to summon others to aid you. In return, you run the risk of invasion. I mean, play however you want, and you certainly do have the option of playing offline. But, even if you do so, Dark Souls 2 gives you NPC invasions to a much greater extent than Dark Souls 1...does this not lead you to believe that this type of interaction is SUPPOSED to be a part of the experience? Why go to a steakhouse and order a hamburger? OK, so you don't like steak...but most people would agree that you are missing out. Drakes posted:And some people like running around killing bosses and collecting loot. So...think of invaders as bosses. There ya go. Random boss encounters = invaders. About ratbros/bellboys: keep in mind that the only thing you lose when getting ratbroed is a little bit of your time. Otherwise, you lose nothing. Getting through those belltowers are another story...yeah; the odds are heavily stacked against the player, and dying here is going to happen more often than not, and it also seems like there is no invasion timer. True, they are "optional," but in the case of Belfry Luna it's almost arguably NOT optional because of the Bastille key.
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May 8, 2014 17:02
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Genocyber posted:Weapons that start out pure physical and then are made elemental get jack all from scaling. From base Faith to 50 you'd probably go from a bonus of 10 lightning damage to a bonus of 40; not a big difference. For weapons with innate lightning, such as the Heide weapons, or Defender Greatsword, scaling does make a difference. Hmm, I see. So getting the sword from the first Heide knight and infusing it with lightning would be interesting? Thanks for the answer!
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May 8, 2014 17:03
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Suitaru posted:http://illusorywall.tumblr.com/ has the testing Geno is referring to.  Thanks, this is brilliant.Genocyber posted:Having a good shield can trivialize the Lost Sinner, unfortunately; she doesn't have any way of dealing with that. And she's even easier now that her HP and damage have been nerfed. NG+ "And now the real battle begins" VisAbsoluta posted:Hmm, I see. So getting the sword from the first Heide knight and infusing it with lightning would be interesting? Thanks for the answer! yeah, on my paladin character I use a Lightning Heide Knight Sword and a regular Mace, and a Lightning Chime. There's a few other weapons with good innate faith scaling later in the game, and then once you get sunlight blade you're really cooking. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 17:09 on May 8, 2014 |
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May 8, 2014 17:05
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VisAbsoluta posted:Hmm, I see. So getting the sword from the first Heide knight and infusing it with lightning would be interesting? Thanks for the answer! It would be a good weapon, yes. I would suggest keeping an upgraded mace around for pure physical damage. There are a few enemies that resist elemental damage enough to warrant it (most noteably the Lionmen).
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May 8, 2014 17:08
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Genocyber posted:It would be a good weapon, yes. I would suggest keeping an upgraded mace around for pure physical damage. There are a few enemies that resist elemental damage enough to warrant it (most noteably the Lionmen). Luckily it seems everything in the game is weak to MACE ELEMENT 
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May 8, 2014 17:09
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I hated the boss design so I didn't fight any bosses. And I hated the check point design and enemy encounters so I avoided it. I did sink 150 hours into the game so far though just sitting at the first bonfire with the Emerald Herald, reminiscing about Dark Souls 1.
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May 8, 2014 17:15
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0lives posted:I was just punched to death. Not with any ceastuses, just with his fists. I didn't know what to do, I just saw him with just his fists and.. Vanquisher's Seal, requires the Champions Covenant and some farming. I hope that wasn't an ANGRY OLD MAN, I got one the other night when the servers were down because of the respawning phantoms in offline mode. Fists seem noticeably better than dual Caestus but you can't buff them.
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May 8, 2014 17:17
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Babyface Mingo posted:I'm not really one that complained about the bosses, but unique boss mechanics such as Old Monk, Chariot, Storm King and even lesser ones such as Old Hero, Fool's Idol, Gwyndolin, Seath or ones that are albeit more 'puzzle'-y such as Bed of Chaos or the Dragon God (but gently caress the Ancient Dragon) make boss encounters a lot more interesting, in my opinion. Even if a lot of 'em are just gimmicks, adapting to the situation and trying to figure out what you have to do quickly before you get your rear end handed to you is neat. Yeah, I prefer those giant fights, while not insanely technical - were glorious to be a part of. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhmOg0HLelM loving beautiful.
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May 8, 2014 17:20
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Araganzar posted:Vanquisher's Seal, requires the Champions Covenant and some farming. I hope that wasn't an ANGRY OLD MAN, I got one the other night when the servers were down because of the respawning phantoms in offline mode. Fists seem noticeably better than dual Caestus but you can't buff them. With 40 str/dex fists have ~350 AR, compared to the Caestus' ~270. So significantly better on that front. Might even get more damage by pumping str more than dex since Str scaling is significantly better.
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May 8, 2014 17:30
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Apparently there's puddles down in the caves where the basilisks hang out in Shaded ruins that completely wrecks your gear  I know this because I had to repair loving everything except my weapon and shield
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May 8, 2014 17:30
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ulvir posted:Apparently there's puddles down Orange is a uniform color for "don't stand in this poo poo". I will heartily recommend a ranged weapon option sooner or later if you're leaning on melee abilities.
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May 8, 2014 17:35
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ulvir posted:Apparently there's puddles down in the caves where the basilisks hang out in Shaded ruins that completely wrecks your gear That's acid. It shows up in a few places, and degrades your armor/ring durability but doesn't affect weapons.
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May 8, 2014 17:38
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Vintersorg posted:loving beautiful. Here's one without some douche talking over it (as punishment the guy bumbles around in his equipment screen for about 3 minutes trying to equip the sword): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1RTlmtZg88
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May 8, 2014 17:40
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buzzsaw.gif posted:So...think of invaders as bosses. There ya go. Random boss encounters = invaders. They'd be the cheesiest boss encounters since they'd min/max their moveset. Like ancient dragon that rains fire every 5 seoncds. Ruined sentinels that hardly stop spinning. Pursuer that never impales/charges. Don't get me wrong I appreciate the idea of random pvp to change things up. I just think what actually happens in PvP is too lopsided to be any fun unless you've been speccing towards it.
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May 8, 2014 17:42
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Is it confirmed that the bell invasions have an internal cooldown? I've hard people in the thread say it could be either way. My personal experience is that after you get invaded by two grey spirits, you can't be invaded again for a few minutes. So if you get invaded and butchered by two bell cops, you now have more than enough time to ring the bell before another group shows up. Beause of this, I never found it necessary to turn off wireless in the bell areas despite losing to invaders.Ulvirich posted:Orange is a uniform color for "don't stand in this poo poo". I will heartily recommend a ranged weapon option sooner or later if you're leaning on melee abilities. I'd imagine most people's reaction to falling into that hole is to roll away from the sudden baskilisk swarm in a panic, not really noticing the acid puddles until after they break their gear. That room is a nasty trap. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 17:49 on May 8, 2014 |
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May 8, 2014 17:46
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Internet Kraken posted:Is it confirmed that the bell invasions have an internal cooldown? I've hard people in the thread say it could be either way. My personal experience is that after you get invaded by two grey spirits, you can't be invaded again for a few minutes. So if you get invaded and butchered by two bell cops, you now have more than enough time to ring the bell before another group shows up. Beause of this, I never found it necessary to turn off wireless in the bell areas despite losing to invaders. If you get two invasions yes, you have a cooldown. If you only die to one it's iffy.
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May 8, 2014 17:47
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Araganzar posted:Vanquisher's Seal, requires the Champions Covenant and some farming. I hope that wasn't an ANGRY OLD MAN, I got one the other night when the servers were down because of the respawning phantoms in offline mode. Fists seem noticeably better than dual Caestus but you can't buff them. No, sadly no ANGRY OLD MAN, but that does explain that, thanks. I feel slightly less shamed!
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May 8, 2014 17:50
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Drakes posted:They'd be the cheesiest boss encounters since they'd min/max their moveset. Like ancient dragon that rains fire every 5 seoncds. Ruined sentinels that hardly stop spinning. Pursuer that never impales/charges. A good Blood Brother really is like a boss, because they often fight a host with summons, most of which try to unsuccessfully drown you in ranged attacks/spells before being killed. Internet Kraken posted:Is it confirmed that the bell invasions have an internal cooldown? I've hard people in the thread say it could be either way. My personal experience is that after you get invaded by two grey spirits, you can't be invaded again for a few minutes. So if you get invaded and butchered by two bell cops, you now have more than enough time to ring the bell before another group shows up. Beause of this, I never found it necessary to turn off wireless in the bell areas despite losing to invaders. Did you have have some kind of life changing epiphany or something? Because you're starting to post very reasonably about Dark Souls 2 and it's confusing me.
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May 8, 2014 17:54
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Orv posted:If you get two invasions yes, you have a cooldown. If you only die to one it's iffy. You also seem to get the cooldown if you kill two invaders. From my experience, if I've killed two invaders it'll be a bit before I get anymore. In some cases, I kill one but then the other just runs away, and his presence seems to allow another to invade again quickly.
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May 8, 2014 17:54
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buzzsaw.gif posted:But, even if you do so, Dark Souls 2 gives you NPC invasions to a much greater extent than Dark Souls 1...does this not lead you to believe that this type of interaction is SUPPOSED to be a part of the experience? (That was my attempt at a fancy way of saying "gently caress that bullshit I'm playing offline")
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May 8, 2014 18:01
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buzzsaw.gif posted:OK, this here...this is what I'm talking about. I'm not saying your point is invalid, because it clearly is your honest opinion. HOWEVER, consider the amount of content in the game that has to do with multiplayer and PVP in particular. PVP is integral to the experience of the game. It doesn't "make or break" the game, as has been said before, but this game was created with purposely created PVP that can happen at random and against opponents that are not chosen by either player (dragons and red soapstones being the exception to this). It's not something that was just sort of 'tacked on' as an additional feature. The PVP is a central part of the way the world works...shifting times, shifting worlds which intersect at random - or at least by means unknown - and the purpose of every player, NPC, and creature in the game is to collect the souls. Hollows do it mindlessly, and bosses have their own motives, but players and NPCs clearly have every motivation to get souls, and collecting them via combat is one attractive method to do so. It's part of the game...it's the price for being able to summon others to aid you. In return, you run the risk of invasion. I mean, play however you want, and you certainly do have the option of playing offline. But, even if you do so, Dark Souls 2 gives you NPC invasions to a much greater extent than Dark Souls 1...does this not lead you to believe that this type of interaction is SUPPOSED to be a part of the experience? It really isn't integral to the experience at all. The vast majority of people I know who played Dark Souls 1 played the entire game Hollow and basically only turned human when they absolutely had to, treating invasions as an annoying intrusion upon what is to them the real game experience. PvPers are a vocal minority, nothing more, and the PvP experience is basically irrelevant to a lot of people.
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May 8, 2014 18:06
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Captain Oblivious posted:It really isn't integral to the experience at all. The vast majority of people I know who played Dark Souls 1 played the entire game Hollow and basically only turned human when they absolutely had to, treating invasions as an annoying intrusion upon what is to them the real game experience. Not true. Many players ignore the PVP, but very few seem to ignore the summoning aspect, which is a multiplayer interaction. It's not the PVP but the multiplayer interactions as a whole that really make the game. Good level design, good fightning mechanics, good aesthetical designs; that can all be found in other games (though it's rare to find a game with all of those). What makes the Souls game stand out if the always present and largely passive multiplayer aspects.
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May 8, 2014 18:09
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Alright Dark Souls pros: I'm finally at the end game, having trekked to the top of the Dragon Aerie and gotten my item from the Ancient Dragon. What do I do now? I know about the memories, but I've jumped into two of them and get destroyed by the giants. If I'm a little more careful I can probably manage them, but if I just want to "beat" the game and not bother with the optional end game bosses, where do I go?
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May 8, 2014 18:11
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Captain Oblivious posted:The vast majority of people I know who played Dark Souls 1 played the entire game Hollow and basically only turned human when they absolutely had to, treating invasions as an annoying intrusion upon what is to them the real game experience.  DrNutt posted:Alright Dark Souls pros: I'm finally at the end game, having trekked to the top of the Dragon Aerie and gotten my item from the Ancient Dragon. What do I do now? I know about the memories, but I've jumped into two of them and get destroyed by the giants. If I'm a little more careful I can probably manage them, but if I just want to "beat" the game and not bother with the optional end game bosses, where do I go? The king door in the room down the ladder from the cardinal tower (you open a soldier key door and then the king door). The memory there is not optional.
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May 8, 2014 18:12
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DrNutt posted:Alright Dark Souls pros: I'm finally at the end game, having trekked to the top of the Dragon Aerie and gotten my item from the Ancient Dragon. What do I do now? I know about the memories, but I've jumped into two of them and get destroyed by the giants. If I'm a little more careful I can probably manage them, but if I just want to "beat" the game and not bother with the optional end game bosses, where do I go? Throne of Want, a.k.a the King's Gate in the basement of Castle Drangleic. You can also just rush through the memories (except for the one with the Giant King, which you NEED to do), grab all of the Giant Souls, then go kill the giants in black gulch and bonfire ascetic them to get another soul from 'em.
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May 8, 2014 18:12
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DrNutt posted:Alright Dark Souls pros: I'm finally at the end game, having trekked to the top of the Dragon Aerie and gotten my item from the Ancient Dragon. What do I do now? I know about the memories, but I've jumped into two of them and get destroyed by the giants. If I'm a little more careful I can probably manage them, but if I just want to "beat" the game and not bother with the optional end game bosses, where do I go? There's a King's Door in the forest of fallen giants down the ladder at Cardinal's Tower. It's the only memory you must finish in order to beat the game.
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May 8, 2014 18:13
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Genocyber posted:Not true. Many players ignore the PVP, but very few seem to ignore the summoning aspect, which is a multiplayer interaction. It's not the PVP but the multiplayer interactions as a whole that really make the game. Good level design, good fightning mechanics, good aesthetical designs; that can all be found in other games (though it's rare to find a game with all of those). What makes the Souls game stand out if the always present and largely passive multiplayer aspects. This is pretty much spot on. Almost every Dark Souls player enjoys summoning others, reading messages, watching bloodstains, and seeing the occasion ethereal phantom from some other world pass by for a moment. The audience clearly loves the multiplayer aspects as a whole, it's only the PvP that causes a split. Some people enjoy it, big whiny babies don't.
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May 8, 2014 18:13
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Just want to say that people should Powerstance Poison'd Channeler's Tridents, it is hilarious.
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May 8, 2014 18:15
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Are you guys done with the dick-measuring competition yet or do you really need the validation of being an awesome PVP-haver that badly?
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May 8, 2014 18:18
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Chomp8645 posted:This is pretty much spot on. Almost every Dark Souls player enjoys summoning others, reading messages, watching bloodstains, and seeing the occasion ethereal phantom from some other world pass by for a moment. The audience clearly loves the multiplayer aspects as a whole, it's only the PvP that causes a split. If your main reason for liking the Souls series is the multiplayer aspects, or even the PvP in particular. That's fine. Good for you. But don't get your panties in a twist when someone likes the game for a different reason.
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