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Agent Interrobang posted:Also there's the fact that the badge on Jotaro's hat for the entirety of Part 3 is a hand making the 'halt' or 'stop' gesture. OR DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MIND. ...Well, poo poo. 
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May 10, 2014 12:38
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But how does Jotaro and DIO learning how to fly in the last battle figure into this.
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May 10, 2014 14:06
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Orgia Carnaval posted:There were no hints for it, is what I'm trying to say. I like that he got a time stop too and for Jotaro it has to be used strategically, so it makes that fight great, but it was pulled out of Araki's rear end much like GER. You have to stretch for that Super Speed = Slowing Down Time reasoning, like really stretch, because we're relying on Jotaro being completely ignorant of everything around him just slowing down and that knowledge being kept from the audience for several chapters on end as Jotaro never makes note of it. Yeah, so? We have plenty of examples in the series of people not knowing the full extent of their Stand's powers or using their Stand on pure instinct, sometimes without even noticing it themselves. It's not a stretch by any means, especially given that Jotaro was a very new Stand user during Stardust Crusaders and was still figuring out what Star Platinum could do.
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May 10, 2014 14:11
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a cartoon duck posted:But how does Jotaro and DIO learning how to fly in the last battle figure into this. They just throw themselves at the ground, and miss.
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May 10, 2014 14:15
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a cartoon duck posted:But how does Jotaro and DIO learning how to fly in the last battle figure into this. They were just jumping. 
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May 10, 2014 14:18
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Cerebral Bore posted:Yeah, so? We have plenty of examples in the series of people not knowing the full extent of their Stand's powers or using their Stand on pure instinct, sometimes without even noticing it themselves. It's not a stretch by any means, especially given that Jotaro was a very new Stand user during Stardust Crusaders and was still figuring out what Star Platinum could do. The problem is Jotaro's entire thing is he's really perceptive, so it's JOTARO of all people who would not notice this and that this would never be addressed in one of the future parts of the series. Especially considering tons of following material always portrays it as super speed. It's Super Speed, that's all it is, call a spade a spade. Araki wrote on the fly a lot prior to Stone Ocean and he is certainly writing on the fly with Stardust Crusaders given that's his first time writing for stands, I think you're giving him a bit too much credit for writing something that nuanced in his punching man's comic from the late 80s and this is coming from someone who loves Stardust Crusaders. Captain Baal fucked around with this message at 15:17 on May 10, 2014 |
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May 10, 2014 15:11
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Orgia Carnaval posted:The problem is Jotaro's entire thing is he's really perceptive, so it's JOTARO of all people who would not notice this and that this would never be addressed in one of the future parts of the series. Especially considering tons of following material always portrays it as super speed. It's Super Speed, that's all it is, call a spade a spade. Perceptiveness doesn't come into it, really. Just look at, say, Giorno not realizing that he could heal wounds with Gold Experience until sometime midway trough the story. Also Jotaro didn't even know that a Timestop had occurred until he experienced it a couple of times himself, the first few times that DIO stopped time he was just a clueless as the rest of the gang.
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May 10, 2014 15:20
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Well no like, I'm saying if the super speed is really him slowing down time then that's something that causes a problem with a lot of Star Platinum's fights like Tower of Grey. There's no excuse for SP to miss anything because that would've also fallen under the influence of the ability even if Jotaro himself never notices, this is also not counting that that's relying on Jotaro not noticing this for the whole series until Dio does it to him. Which is weird because you'd think Jotaro would eventually notice when his opponents and people around him have slowed down. And again, this is ignoring that super speed and time stop are always considered separate abilities in so much succeeding material. It's never said after that like "Super Speed a result of stopping time", "Slows down time to seem as if he's punching fast", he's just straight up a fast stand. If you want to say Jotaro not realizing the potential of his stand and didn't realize the full potential of SP, that's fine, but no one else has that in all of SC and you are relying on information that comes WAYYYY after the fact. a cartoon duck posted:But how does Jotaro and DIO learning how to fly in the last battle figure into this. They're too good for us and too good to stand on this earth. Captain Baal fucked around with this message at 15:39 on May 10, 2014 |
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May 10, 2014 15:36
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Man if we, who have known about SP's time stop for years are arguing about it, imagine the explosion when it comes up in the anime.
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May 10, 2014 16:05
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a cartoon duck posted:But how does Jotaro and DIO learning how to fly in the last battle figure into this. I assumed that since stands can float they were just using those. Kind of like how Polnareff had Silver Chariot carry him into the air.
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May 10, 2014 16:09
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I love that scene, because the other guys basically have to forget they can see Stands in order for it to work. Classic Araki.
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May 10, 2014 16:30
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Man if we, who have known about SP's time stop for years are arguing about it, imagine the explosion when it comes up in the anime. It's gonna be hype as gently caress I can't wait to see the color filters they use for it and hear the time stop music. EDIT: Kabanaw posted:I don't think Araki knew he was going to give anybody time stop powers when he started writing part 3. I doubt he really knew what power he would give The World until he got close to writing it. I just think that he wrote it in such a way that when Dio sees Jotaro move his eyes during a time stop that I didn't think it was out of nowhere that he could do a time stop as well. It makes sense from the viewpoint of special relativity and time dilation, which says that an object travelling at higher velocities experiences time at a slower rate. Slap that through a science fiction filter (which Araki loves to do) and you get if you move fast enough, you can stop time. I can see what you mean there, I guess. I mean all in all this is a rather silly kind of debate because what matters is the fight is loving rad and who cares that Jotaro has a time stop now, but it is one of those things that's interesting to see people come to different conclusions with. Captain Baal fucked around with this message at 16:39 on May 10, 2014 |
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May 10, 2014 16:31
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Orgia Carnaval posted:Well no like, I'm saying if the super speed is really him slowing down time then that's something that causes a problem with a lot of Star Platinum's fights like Tower of Grey. There's no excuse for SP to miss anything because that would've also fallen under the influence of the ability even if Jotaro himself never notices, this is also not counting that that's relying on Jotaro not noticing this for the whole series until Dio does it to him. Which is weird because you'd think Jotaro would eventually notice when his opponents and people around him have slowed down. I don't think Araki knew he was going to give anybody time stop powers when he started writing part 3. I doubt he really knew what power he would give The World until he got close to writing it. I just think that he wrote it in such a way that when Dio sees Jotaro move his eyes during a time stop that I didn't think it was out of nowhere that he could do a time stop as well. It makes sense from the viewpoint of special relativity and time dilation, which says that an object travelling at higher velocities experiences time at a slower rate. Slap that through a science fiction filter (which Araki loves to do) and you get if you move fast enough, you can stop time.
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May 10, 2014 16:36
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Orgia Carnaval posted:It's gonna be hype as gently caress I can't wait to see the color filters they use for it and hear the time stop music. For all the OVA did wrong, I sincerely hope they keep the racecar sound effect followed by the silence of the time stop.
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May 10, 2014 18:33
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I always figured Jotaro thought "Star Platinum can move in the the frozen time, maybe that means I can stop time too?" and just got really lucky at the right time. I've never really thought of it as one of his main powers really, since it seems pretty tacked on. Even though he ends up doing it more than DIO, I still think of it as his power. Also, Star Finger and the Oraoraoraoraoras might be references to Jonathan's Sunlight Yellow Overdrive and the Zoom Punch.
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May 10, 2014 18:49
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I really really REALLY hope the anime foreshadows Jotaro's time stop. There are some prime moments where this could happen, like when Jotaro is grabbing stuff out of thin air during the poker match.
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May 10, 2014 18:54
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TheKingofSprings posted:For all the OVA did wrong, I sincerely hope they keep the racecar sound effect followed by the silence of the time stop.
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May 10, 2014 19:28
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Momomo posted:Also, Star Finger and the Oraoraoraoraoras might be references to Jonathan's Sunlight Yellow Overdrive and the Zoom Punch. Given Joseph explicitly refers to Stands as 'the Ripple of the soul' several times I always kind of assumed this was the case; Stands are simply the evolution of Ripple powers, the same way that Stands in SBR are evolutions of the Spin. It makes sense for Star Finger to be the Stand equivalent of the Zoom Punch and the fact that Stand powers and punching can hurt vampires, albeit not disintegrate them the same way Overdrive does, pretty much seals the deal. You can make arguments for why this is the case, but I don't think it's anything hard and fast, given the Joestar's Stands were a result of DIO jamming an arrow into himself but Avdol, Kakyoin, and Polnareff evolved theirs naturally. This is also probably why Hermit Purple is so different and comparatively under-powered compared to most Part 3 Stands; it's not a fully-powered Stand because it exists to complement Joseph's Ripple mastery. Joseph doesn't get anything like Star Platinum or Magician's Red because all he really NEEDS out of a Stand is A) the ability to find poo poo and B) something to conduct Ripple energy at range, since Joseph is a loving badass and he will KEEP using poo poo from the last season, because YOU drat KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN 
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May 10, 2014 19:33
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WickedHate posted:They were just
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May 10, 2014 19:52
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I don't think it's exact to say that Stands are the evolution of Ripple. Polnareff stabbed Vanilla Ice directly in the brain with Silver Chariot's sword and he was still able to fight for a good while after that until Silver Chariot started cutting the curtains to let sunlight in instead. I'm pretty sure if that were a Ripple attack, it would've killed him.
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May 10, 2014 21:04
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Agent Interrobang posted:Given Joseph explicitly refers to Stands as 'the Ripple of the soul' several times I always kind of assumed this was the case; Stands are simply the evolution of Ripple powers, the same way that Stands in SBR are evolutions of the Spin. It makes sense for Star Finger to be the Stand equivalent of the Zoom Punch and the fact that Stand powers and punching can hurt vampires, albeit not disintegrate them the same way Overdrive does, pretty much seals the deal. You can make arguments for why this is the case, but I don't think it's anything hard and fast, given the Joestar's Stands were a result of DIO jamming an arrow into himself but Avdol, Kakyoin, and Polnareff evolved theirs naturally. I thought the Stands in SBR were Jesus's corpse giving people power.
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May 10, 2014 21:19
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a cartoon duck posted:But how does Jotaro and DIO learning how to fly in the last battle figure into this. What about Rohan and that kid starting to fly because of loving rock, paper, scissors?
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May 10, 2014 21:23
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Ethiser posted:I thought the Stands in SBR were Jesus's corpse giving people power. Both these things are true, really.
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May 10, 2014 21:31
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Momomo posted:
The Oras are because pummels are really cool especially since Araki was inspired by Fist of the North Star where Kenshiro did that with a Bruce Lee esque battle cry. Pomp posted:What about Rohan and that kid starting to fly because of loving rock, paper, scissors? Araki had to know, HE JUST HAD TO.
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May 10, 2014 21:39
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:I don't think it's exact to say that Stands are the evolution of Ripple. Yeah, both Ripple and Stands draw from spiritual power. That's the only thing they have in common.
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May 10, 2014 21:48
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Ethiser posted:I thought the Stands in SBR were Jesus's corpse giving people power. Okay, now I'm curious. 
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May 10, 2014 21:51
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Okay, now I'm curious. Steel Ball Run is at its core, a race across America to find as many pieces of Jesus as possible.
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May 10, 2014 21:53
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Steel Ball Run owns, as an aside.
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May 10, 2014 21:56
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Okay, now I'm curious. There are pieces of Jesus hidden around America and the cross-country horse race is just a cover for finding them. If you get a piece of the corpse and put it into your body, you gain a stand. Also, Jesus only exists in one universe. In every alternate universe, the race is a cover for finding diamonds or something.
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May 10, 2014 21:58
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Waffleman_ posted:Steel Ball Run is at its core, a race across America to find as many pieces of Jesus as possible. Orgia Carnaval posted:Steel Ball Run owns, as an aside. I cannot believe I have to go through two more parts before I can read this.
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May 10, 2014 21:59
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I thought Jesus just gave you a power up rather than straight up stand? Granted it's been a while since I read SBR but I remember that one desert being the place both Johnny and Gyro developed their stands. Something to do with the geology or something.
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May 10, 2014 23:54
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I believe the geology was directly related to there being a corpse part in that area. If you remember, Gyro got his Stand after taking the eye into him, then lost it when the eye was taken out. At least, I think that's what happened.
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May 10, 2014 23:57
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Speaking of Part 7, is that the only part where non-stand users defeat stand-users?
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May 11, 2014 00:06
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RatHat posted:Speaking of Part 7, is that the only part where non-stand users defeat stand-users? I think so, although Part 3's Oingo Boingo has Stand users who weren't using their Stands at the time and didn't even know they were being attacked defeat other Stand users who were actually trying. Edit: Actually, Part 4 has Reimi the ghost girl finishing off Kira instead of any of the Stand users.
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May 11, 2014 00:10
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Waffleman_ posted:I believe the geology was directly related to there being a corpse part in that area. If you remember, Gyro got his Stand after taking the eye into him, then lost it when the eye was taken out. At least, I think that's what happened. Gyro got a stand from having a christpart but be lost it when he lost the part, then later after he mastered the golden arc he did developed a completely different stand. I think Johnny originally getting Tusk was due to him picking up a christpart, but he kept it and later improved it because of his natural talent for the spin. I think Pocoloco is the only one to get a stand naturally without ever getting near a christpart. How did alternate universe people get stands without the christparts? VVVV: Maybe they were diamonds cut from a meteor. tap my mountain fucked around with this message at 00:22 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 00:19
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Broseph Brostar posted:How did alternate universe people get stands without the christparts? From the diamonds, I assume.
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May 11, 2014 00:21
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We don't know how some got theirs, but a point is made in Part 7 that you don't need Jesus to get a stand, it's just the easiest way. Then there's JoJolion where due to Jesus the Wall Eyes exist and everyone is probably getting a power from the entire corpse being in the geography of Morioh.
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May 11, 2014 00:26
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I hope Jesus just keeps globehopping through every part that takes place in this universe, giving people Stands.
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May 11, 2014 00:30
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Orgia Carnaval posted:We don't know how some got theirs, but a point is made in Part 7 that you don't need Jesus to get a stand, it's just the easiest way. Isn't every stand user so far, except for Angelo and the robbing road tree, related to Johnny?
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May 11, 2014 00:33
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As far as we know Yasuho doesn't either and Gappy might not, but we don't know the latter for sure.
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May 11, 2014 00:38
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